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Is It Safe To Buy Dual MFWs?

post #1 of 1011
6/9/09 at 8:31pm
Thread Starter 
I've been a supporter of AV123 for awhile, and the recent issues concerning the company and MLS have really been tough to deal with. I've always found the man and his company to be fair and generous, but I need convincing now. I'm running an Outlaw LFM-1EX, and have been very happy with it. Lately the upgrade bug has bitten, and I've been thinking about getting more subwoofage. The latest sale on MFWs is very tempting, but with all the problems they have had I need to be sure I won't be buying into trouble. I've never had an issue with any sub I purchased, and the thought of problems developing with dual MFWs has me worried. The sale will be over before the new subs ship, so I have no user data to go by. The competition is dual A5-350s from eD, or maybe dual A7s-450s. Wish I could go dual HSU ULS-15s, but that's getting too expensive. Bottom line, is it safe to order MFWs? Is the amp issue really fixed? How about the hum issues? Anything else to worry about, or are these as good a deal as they seem? MLS, are you out there? If you can personally ensure that these subs are all they should be then I will place an order, come on man! You need to get vocal again, it's been too long! Convince me (and everyone else) that the MFWs are the best deal going, and you're sure to sell a boat load.
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post #2 of 1011
6/9/09 at 9:04pm
If the MFW's are working, at this price, absolutely nothing (outside of a DIY) can beat the value and amount of bass you're going to get. You're going to blow your house down. Which is a good thing.
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post #3 of 1011
6/9/09 at 9:06pm
Sadly, no one has any new data points to change any set opinions/fears/biases/trust (or lack thereof) and no one will until after the sale. Therefore any opinions you receive here are mere conjecture based upon the already well-known and discussed issues.

Personally, I think it will take many months/years to know if the amp issues have been completely resolved.

Caveat emptor is still in full effect.
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post #4 of 1011
6/9/09 at 9:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

Caveat emptor is still in full effect.

x2
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post #5 of 1011
6/10/09 at 1:03am
I own the Rocket 450 x 4 system (with RSC 200) and they are some of the finest, probably THE finest speakers I've ever heard for the price I paid.

Because of that, I'm trusting MLS and AV123 with my money. Yes, I've read of all the problems and shenanigans. However, I believe they basically have to get it right this time. If they don't, they're way in over their head.
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post #6 of 1011
6/10/09 at 5:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyriderfox View Post

I own the Rocket 450 x 4 system (with RSC 200) and they are some of the finest, probably THE finest speakers I've ever heard for the price I paid.

Because of that, I'm trusting MLS and AV123 with my money. Yes, I've read of all the problems and shenanigans. However, I believe they basically have to get it right this time. If they don't, they're way in over their head.

The problem is that the electrical/mechanical problems with the last batch of MFW amps was a quality control problem in a factory in China, and then selling hundreds of MFWs with known amp problems.

"getting it right" means better quality control (which costs money), and responding appropriately if there are any new or old issues when the MFWs with the new amp board ships.

As others have said, all the chatter about the new amp board sounds nice, but the proof lies 6-12 months in the future when the already sold units have the board swapped out, and new units have been in the field for a good while.

Then there is the separate but related issue of the Hot Rod Kit. People waiting 3 years?
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post #7 of 1011
6/10/09 at 5:33am
Get another LFM-1 EX for dual setup.
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post #8 of 1011
6/10/09 at 6:11am
It is most definitely not "safe" to buy dual MFW-15's right now. It seems they are desperate to sell them and are offering very low pricing... worst time to buy from this company imo is now. They have proven nothing, shipped nothing, they have just talked about how this is going to work perfectly. During my time following **********, I have learned that you believe nothing they say... deadlines, updates, new speaker/sub lines, fixes for old equipment... they don't do anything they say when they say they're going to do it. This I have found to be true, and because of this... show me the working MFW-15's in the field and everyone who has an amp that isn't working needs to be taken care of... thats the first step in making it "safe" to buy dual MFW-15's. They really just have too many loose ends right now...
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post #9 of 1011
6/10/09 at 6:15am
Call AV123 up. Better yet, call them and ask for MLS. If he's around, he'll talk to you.

Get your questions answered by the man, himself.
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post #10 of 1011
6/10/09 at 6:22am
yes, buy them. There is no way this next batch is going to be going out with half-assed amps. If they do, it'll be all over for AV123 and subs. They'll have to sell the vaporware BMF's for $499- to get customers back.
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post #11 of 1011
6/10/09 at 6:40am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwv651 View Post

Get another LFM-1 EX for dual setup.

I thought about it, easiest way to upgrade. How would that compare to dual 15 inch subs?
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post #12 of 1011
6/10/09 at 6:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

Call AV123 up. Better yet, call them and ask for MLS. If he's around, he'll talk to you.

Get your questions answered by the man, himself.


Promises made in private aren't enough, I'd like to see public reassurances. The old MLS needs to return, enough already with the forum "cone of silence"!
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post #13 of 1011
6/10/09 at 6:43am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crOwcaine View Post

yes, buy them. There is no way this next batch is going to be going out with half-assed amps. If they do, it'll be all over for AV123 and subs. They'll have to sell the vaporware BMF's for $499- to get customers back.

Not a glowing endorsement!
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post #14 of 1011
6/10/09 at 6:57am
Personally, I wouldn't buy anything from AV123 that has an amp in it. With them, amps have always been the kiss of death.
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post #15 of 1011
6/10/09 at 7:06am
Safe? Maybe not, but you can get them at a great price. They are not charging your cc until it ships so if it does take forever you can bail. The only risk IMHO is how the new amp works out. I for one am willing to take that risk for the great price and performance (when working) of this sub. I ordered mine (single MFW-15) a couple of weeks ago.
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post #16 of 1011
6/10/09 at 7:12am
I have nothing for or against AV123. BUT, I did notice that last week they sent out an e-mail promising new specials. First they had some sort of problem with a coupon code. Then the next e-mail never came. MLS seams to have the problem of coming up with an idea, sending it out, then not being able to deliver.

He needs to slow down, think about what he is doing, and only do things he
is ready to do. IE never offer something you don't have in stock.

That being said. I would call. IF and only IF they have the subs in stock, with the new amps would I buy. I would NEVER put down any money on anything they don't have in stock.

A good company will honor a sale. They can send you an e-mail or coupon that says "you can buy x sub at x price when they are in stock". But you should not have to put money down up front.
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post #17 of 1011
6/10/09 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by swgiust View Post

A good company will honor a sale. They can send you an e-mail or coupon that says "you can buy x sub at x price when they are in stock". But you should not have to put money down up front.

I agree. I'm aware of their history of taking money without having the product in stock before, but for my MFW-15 order they have not. It will only be charged when my sub ships.

I would never give money beforehand for a product that was not fully developed or even one that is in production but not in stock. I'm not into giving interest free loans to anyone...
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post #18 of 1011
6/10/09 at 7:28am
It's a personal decision, people are beta testers all the time these days, a sad fact of life.

I sure hope they get it right.
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post #19 of 1011
6/10/09 at 7:54am
Heck the new 5.1 deal (5 ELT525, 1 MFW-15) for $1K (Plus $200 for shipping) makes it easy IMO.

Think about it, the ELT5.0 value alone is around $700 or $800 (use to be around $1200)...that means the MFW-15 is $400 shipped. (note: You have to like Cherry veneer .....I DO )

I can not DIY anything close to this for that cost....so this is a no brainer package deal. Outside of any company bankruptcy fire sale this is the best deal I have seen in years.


Sometimes its about the cost/value of the speakers and not about the stability of the company.
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post #20 of 1011
6/10/09 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

Promises made in private aren't enough, I'd like to see public reassurances. The old MLS needs to return, enough already with the forum "cone of silence"!

"CONE of silence"......

Just playin'!

MLS has been posting quite a bit over at AV123.

First up, the announcements about the reintroduction of the MFWs with the new amps. More on replacing the old amps (first shipments of those should begin sometime next week). Now, the ELT525 + MFW for $1K deal.

Sale on the MFWs may not be extended past 6/19, based on current sell through.

In the last few weeks, I've spoken to MLS, Suzanne, Jess (and probably Kyle, at one point, too).

So, they haven't been incognito, by any stretch. MLS is posting publically. Just not here.

Gotta admit.....$500 for one MFW 15, or $900 for duals is a whole lot of LFE for the money.
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post #21 of 1011
6/10/09 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

"CONE of silence"......
MLS has been posting quite a bit over at AV123...
... MLS is posting publically. Just not here.

Where is MLS publicly responding to questions? On his own forum?
Anybody can make announcements......when was the last announced product delivered in good working condition?

I would not risk my money (or CC information) with a company that is having this many problems......just my opinion.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1138435
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post #22 of 1011
6/10/09 at 11:10am
It's like loaning your deadbeat brother-in-law some $$$$$!
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post #23 of 1011
6/10/09 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alages View Post

Where is MLS publicly responding to questions? On his own forum?
Anybody can make announcements......when was the last announced product delivered in good working condition?

I would not risk my money (or CC information) with a company that is having this many problems......just my opinion.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1138435

They've been delivering LSs for several weeks. They never stopped delivering Rockets, ELTs, X-Series.

The AV123 forum is public. Anyone can go there and see it.
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post #24 of 1011
6/10/09 at 12:47pm
Quote:


when was the last announced product delivered in good working condition?

I remember issues with the original Rocket crossover years ago but AV123 have sold speakers without issues for years. Rockets and ELTs are all shipping without problems. Its the MFW-15 that has created the biggest stir online and teh squeaky wheel always gets the most attention.

Im not posting saying there isnt signs of huge problems within AV123 Im just saying that a large majority of their products have zero issues and they are known for great build quality and SQ hardly ever matched for the $$$.
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post #25 of 1011
6/10/09 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I remember issues with the original Rocket crossover years ago but AV123 have sold speakers without issues for years. Rockets and ELTs are all shipping without problems. Its the MFW-15 that has created the biggest stir online and teh squeaky wheel always gets the most attention.

Im not posting saying there isnt signs of huge problems within AV123 Im just saying that a large majority of their products have zero issues and they are known for great build quality and SQ hardly ever matched for the $$$.

Well said!
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post #26 of 1011
6/10/09 at 1:06pm
I went ahead and threw down for a pair.

No risk, no reward.
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post #27 of 1011
6/10/09 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

The AV123 forum is public. Anyone can go there and see it.

Can anyone post on the AV123 forum and will AV123 respond to those questions? What date was the last post from someone not affiliated with AV123?
What subs are currently shipping?
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post #28 of 1011
6/10/09 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alages View Post

Can anyone post on the AV123 forum and will AV123 respond to those questions? What date was the last post from someone not affiliated with AV123?
What subs are currently shipping?

There're rolling out the forums a little at a time as to what sections are open. Classifieds are open for posting. Couple of other ones regarding music/movies you can post to, also.

MFWs shipping end of this month.

Product questions are best handled by calling them.
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post #29 of 1011
6/10/09 at 1:33pm
My two cents is that I would not trust any subwoofer from AV123 that has not been out in the field for awhile. The new amp absolutely needs to prove itself first.

If it was a normal speaker, no problem. But their subwoofer history is shaky at best.
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post #30 of 1011
6/10/09 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephF View Post

My two cents is that I would not trust any subwoofer from AV123 that has not been out in the field for awhile. The new amp absolutely needs to prove itself first.

If it was a normal speaker, no problem. But their subwoofer history is shaky at best.

Yep. And I would also have to know that the company as a whole was on firm footing. They seem to have been treading a slippery slope for quite awhile now. A warranty for a product with a shaky history is of no value if you don't know the company will be around a year from now to support it.
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