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Is It Safe To Buy Dual MFWs? - Page 2

post #31 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jephdood View Post

Yep. And I would also have to know that the company as a whole was on firm footing. They seem to have been treading a slippery slope for quite awhile now. A warranty for a product with a shaky history is of no value if you don't know the company will be around a year from now to support it.

While I understand what you are saying, this would not be much of an issue for me once the product has been proven (say like a set of Rockets). Any info on the stability of AV123 has been pure speculation. If there was solid information available that might change. But I personally would not base anything related to this on what has been discussed on this or other forums.

Now in looking at this in the perspective of buying a product that has had a shaky history, I would then agree 100%
post #32 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephF View Post

My two cents is that I would not trust any subwoofer from AV123 that has not been out in the field for awhile. The new amp absolutely needs to prove itself first.

If it was a normal speaker, no problem. But their subwoofer history is shaky at best.

Or, you could use a CC for the purchase. I know on my CC, they usually extend the warranty past the manufacturers terms. If it breaks, and has no way of being fixed, the CC company gives you your purchase price back during the warranty period. At least, that's the way it is on my AMEX. Same way on my MC.
post #33 of 1011
Hi everyone,

I'm a long time reader and this is my first post.

So, it's alright to buy the MFW by using the AMEX as stated by GraphicGuy?

I'm a little nervous from all the things I read and I am not even sure the goods are really in stock when they said those are once I call to order.

And I thought ID company supposed to strive to a better standard?

I checked Hsu and others and they all seem to be not like av123?

I thought this is a hobby and one shouldn't be worried about ordering on line?

I'm just thinking out loud here so please don't shoot me.

Thanks all for your insight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

Or, you could use a CC for the purchase. I know on my CC, they usually extend the warranty past the manufacturers terms. If it breaks, and has no way of being fixed, the CC company gives you your purchase price back during the warranty period. At least, that's the way it is on my AMEX. Same way on my MC.
post #34 of 1011
If it was my money.. I would not do it. If we were talking about a set of speakers that were in stock I would consider it. But there is just too much bad history with these subs and the promises made by MLS/av123, that seem to get broken constantly. No doubt the subs are a great deal, but there is too much uncertainty. If the new amp boards were already out and had proven to be reliable and av123 had provided replacement amps to all those that are dead in the water right now, I would say consider it. But ask yourself. Do you really want to drop this much money on something that could be nothing more than a paperweight in the near future? And do you have confidence that av123 will even be around in 12+ months? IMHO they almost seem too desperate for cash with these deals.

The fact remains that there are some excellent subs out there that can provide equal or better performance than the MFW-15 (but I will admit the price of the MFW-15 is very solid). To me, it is worth the piece of mind to buy from a company that has good QA and will back their product up quickly should a problem arise.

Maybe this time next year I would be willing to buy a product (especially a sub) from av123 (assuming they have indeed fixed the issue and folks that have bad amps were taken care of).
post #35 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

Promises made in private aren't enough, I'd like to see public reassurances. The old MLS needs to return, enough already with the forum "cone of silence"!

That's the problem,Back when everything was going fine,Before the amp problems,Everyone from av123 was posting in the main thread.Then when problems arise,They run and hide.Not a way to run a business.
post #36 of 1011
Please forgive my ignorance but how much money can one save by ordering the MFW versus, say, Hsu?

Do people really weigh the frustration against the money saved?

Personally, I'd rather pay extra than doing business with incompetent and whatever else company (ies). This is just my belief only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

If it was my money.. I would not do it. If we were talking about a set of speakers that were in stock I would consider it. But there is just too much bad history with these subs and the promises made by MLS/av123, that seem to get broken constantly. No doubt the subs are a great deal, but there is too much uncertainty. If the new amp boards were already out and had proven to be reliable and av123 had provided replacement amps to all those that are dead in the water right now, I would say consider it. But ask yourself. Do you really want to drop this much money on something that could be nothing more than a paperweight in the near future? And do you have confidence that av123 will even be around in 12+ months? IMHO they almost seem too desperate for cash with these deals.

The fact remains that there are some excellent subs out there that can provide equal or better performance than the MFW-15 (but I will admit the price of the MFW-15 is very solid). To me, it is worth the piece of mind to buy from a company that has good QA and will back their product up quickly should a problem arise.

Maybe this time next year I would be willing to buy a product (especially a sub) from av123 (assuming they have indeed fixed the issue and folks that have bad amps were taken care of).
post #37 of 1011
I think part of the reason you have all these problems is because of the old MLS. With all due respect to the man, when the head of the company spends all his time writing emails, posting on forums, and all that, there's not much time to devote to the nitty gritty details of running the actual business end.
post #38 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shisnotindahouse View Post

Please forgive my ignorance but how much money can one save by ordering the MFW versus, say, Hsu?

Hmmm lets see:

From craigsub's list:
_____________________________________________________

Elemental Designs A7-900 ($2200 ID/SI): 116 points (63-53)
Epik Conquest ($1599 ID): 112 points (60-52)
SVS PB13-Ultra ($1499 ID): 109 points (57-52)
Epik Castle ($999 ID): 109 points (59-50)
AV123 MFW-15 Duals: 109 points (56-53) (note, duals were tested as duals are offered as a package)
Creative Sounds Dual SDX-15 driver + Behringer EP-2500 Amp + Behringer DEQ2496 ($1630 ID): 105 points (57-48)
JL Audio Fathom 113 ($3500 BM): 103 points (53-50)
AV123 MFW-15 ($599 ID): 103 points (53-50)
Def Tech Trinity ($3000 BM): 102 points (54-48)
Velodyne DD-18 ($5000 BM): 100 points (50-50)
ACI Maestro ($2400 ID): 97 points (47-50)
eD A5-350 ($715 ID/SI): 96 points (50-46)
JL Audio Fathom 112 ($2600 BM): 95 points (45-50)
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo ($999 ID): 94 points (47-47)

_______________________________________

The HSU VTF-1 HO + Turbo is the highest rated HSU at ($999). I can order a B-stock MFW-15 for $449. So I'm saving $550 for a higher ranked sub.

Look, it is a risk. There may be frustration down the road. But, I'm not getting charged until the sub ships. If the amp fails and the company goes belly up (worse case) then I have to live with that. For me it isn't the end of the world if I make a bad purchase with that amount of money. To someone else that amount of money may be huge and they shouldn't take the risk. I've lost more than that sitting at the riverboat tables.

I doubt anyone will argue that a working MFW-15 for $449 is not a complete steal.

There are lots of happy AV123 customers out there with quality products enjoying them right now. If all goes well I will be one in July.
post #39 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shisnotindahouse View Post

Please forgive my ignorance but how much money can one save by ordering the MFW versus, say, Hsu?

Do people really weigh the frustration against the money saved?

Personally, I'd rather pay extra than doing business with incompetent and whatever else company (ies). This is just my belief only.

The HSU VTF-3 MK3 is $699+100 shipping. And I think the MFW-15 would be considered a superior sub. The HSU ULS-15 is $1099 + $60 shipping and handling and would be a more comparable sub to the MFW-15 performance wise.

Elemental Designs would give you closer performance to the dollar but the MFW-15 at the current pricing would be the leader IMHO. But, I just don't think it is worth the headache if the amp does not function correctly.

Honestly, it is really too bad. av123 makes very good speakers/subs but, for me, I want to buy a product that I know will work and has the support of the company that makes it.
post #40 of 1011
I personally feel that reliability, QA and longevity tie into the overall satisfaction of a product. Having one or two units that may be rated highly by Craig gives you little satisfaction when the unit is quiet as a church mouse due to defects and poor QA.

I've vented my opinions thoroughly on this forum, but it does merit repeating, unless the product is actually functioning it is not a value as a subwoofer regardless of the sale price.

At this point we have zero data other than the word of the company that the problem is resolved.
post #41 of 1011
I love my dual MFW's.
post #42 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOrlnsDukie View Post

I love my dual MFW's.

Exactly! Some posters make it sound like there are NO working MFW-15s out there. I know there have been many cases of amp failures. And sure we don't know if the new amps will work without issues. That is the risk...but to me there is no denying the reward for the risk is great.
post #43 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shisnotindahouse View Post

Hi everyone,

I'm a long time reader and this is my first post.

So, it's alright to buy the MFW by using the AMEX as stated by GraphicGuy?

I'm a little nervous from all the things I read and I am not even sure the goods are really in stock when they said those are once I call to order.

And I thought ID company supposed to strive to a better standard?

I checked Hsu and others and they all seem to be not like av123?

I thought this is a hobby and one shouldn't be worried about ordering on line?

I'm just thinking out loud here so please don't shoot me.

Thanks all for your insight.

LIttle bit of background to catch you up.....reader's digest version.

AV123, and company founder/President, Mark Schifter was one of the first internet direct audio companies. He used to sell other manufacturer's products (like Swan Speakers). He even had a hand in helping to launch current ID companies (i.e. EMOTIVA) by reselling their products.

Then, he became a designer/manufacturer (which he also did with a couple of his earlier companies).

He's been making his own speakers for well over a decade (could be 15 years). Current line up includes the Rocket line, the X-series, LS and ELT525. He's also got a fairly large arsenal of now retired speaker products.

As AV123, Mark (or as he's more commonly know as, MLS) made a reputation as producing some of the best performing, best looking speakers for the amount of money they cost.....available anywhere.

AV123 also gained momentum in the subwoofer category when this comprehensive subwoofer testing ranking came out from Craig Chase (craigsub), owner of Tweak City Audio.

http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11

At the time (I believe it still is) the most comprehensive blind test of subwoofers that are/were popular. It's dominated by ID companies.

Things went well for a very long time....until, MLS ran into sub amp problems that went into his subwoofers which came from China. The first amps in the MFWs (approx 2,000 units) were fine. The 2nd batch had a wildly inordinate amount of failures, starting sometime last Summer/Fall. Things began to go south from there. The MFW was pulled from the market. Which led to a total amp redesign. Those new amps will be hitting the streets sometime in the next 10 days, or so. The new MFW 15s, with the new amps will start to roll out on 6/30.

But, the damage was done. Lots of upset owners who've waited for the new amps to appear (which is only starting now). MLS shut down his forum (which was very active, not only for his products, but AV discussion in general). Add to that, there was a delay in getting their flagship speakers (LSs) out the door (they're shipping now, and have been for a few weeks). On top of that, MLS became very ill towards the end of last year, earlier this year, and things looked like they were in a no recovery zone.

Slowly but surely, MLS began to regain some health. MFW solutions were made. Flagship LS speakers are being delivered. And, we're starting to see evidence that at least parts of the AV123 forum will be open for general posting by those other than AV123 employees.

Again, that's the Reader's Digest version.

Buy what you want, with whom you want, for whatever reason you want. But, you can not beat the performance, the build quality, nor the look of an MFW for $500. Even better, $900 for duals.

That can generally be said of the entire AV123 speaker catalog.
post #44 of 1011
^^ You forgot to add that MLS also was selling B-stock merchandise on the av123 forums and never shipped the product (even though he took the money) to some people. There is a guy at another forum that is still waiting on product that he paid for with paypal directly to MLS back in September of 2008. MLS made promises that he would make the deal right after offering a number of excuses as to why he did not ship the product or refund the money. To this day the person has not received their product and MLS stopped responding to his emails. Read about it here:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=53755

Remember MLS is the CEO of av123..
post #45 of 1011
Thread Starter 
A very interesting discussion, and a clear picture as to why I asked if it was safe to buy dual MFWs! I'm still waiting to hear from MLS, back in the day he would have no problem responding to this type of inquiry. If the subs are truly bullet-proof, please come on this forum and say so! I'd ask on the AV123 forum, but so far only the classifieds and the movie thread are open for posting. Come on MLS, sell your subs to us!
post #46 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

I'd ask on the AV123 forum, but so far only the classifieds and the movie thread are open for posting.

Why do you think all the forums were closed for so long and MLS chose only to "open" these two insignificant forums? Anybody that knows about forum software understands it is just as easy and quick to open forums as it is to close them.
post #47 of 1011
why would you want to support a company that obviously has problems? there is a reason why you are getting a "great deal"

you ever hear the phrase "you get what you pay for"

IMHO i would take my business to a company who values the customer and wants a repeat customer down the line.

there are plenty of other sub makers out there that are more appealing in the LONG run.

i consider my HT a investment and i like knowing im investing in companies that are ran with great leadership and pride and will most likely be around long after im dead.
post #48 of 1011
gentlemen
as a new member of the forum i was going to diy a new 5.2 speaker setup my budget is 2k. But for the prices on these speakers can i make something better than these.
post #49 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by landalakes View Post

can i make something better than these.

Can you make something that works?
post #50 of 1011
alages
I work hard for my money and i just want to spend it wisely. I do do have the woodworking talent and the tools to make most anything.
post #51 of 1011
Thread Starter 
I can't imagine a better deal than the current ELT 5.1 special. I just wish the head honcho would come out of his self imposed exile and convince everyone that his latest sale really is all it's supposed to be!
post #52 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Personally, I wouldn't buy anything from AV123 that has a power cord. With them, active electronics have always been the kiss of death.

There, I fixed it for you. I like Mark, and I like their speakers, but for someone to pretend that their active electronics have been anything but a disaster only proves they haven't been paying attention.

I can't recall a single product they've sold with a power cord that hasn't had problems. Though I welcome someone to correct me if I'm wrong.
post #53 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by landalakes View Post

alages
I work hard for my money and i just want to spend it wisely. I do do have the woodworking talent and the tools to make most anything.

You could build a DIY Rythmik sub.
post #54 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

I can't recall a single product they've sold with a power cord that hasn't had problems. Though I welcome someone to correct me if I'm wrong.

The amps they put on the Minis & RS1000s seemed pretty bulletproof, although very basic without even auto-on/off feature.
post #55 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvgillow View Post

The amps they put on the Minis & RS1000s seemed pretty bulletproof, although very basic without even auto-on/off feature.

I personally had a RS1000 amp fail. Sandbagger had an amp from his Minis fail if I'm remember correctly, so I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about them being bulletproof.
post #56 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by landalakes View Post

alages
I work hard for my money and i just want to spend it wisely. I do do have the woodworking talent and the tools to make most anything.

My point was that if you can make a 5.2 system that works (including powered amp(s)) then it would be my recommendation that you pursue that course instead of purchasing something from AV123 that may not work or is not delivered. Less expensive and not working correctly is not better than slightly more expensive and meeting expectations. If your money is important to you (as you indicated) then you should either build your own or purchase from a different company.
Again....that is just my opinion.
post #57 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

I can't imagine a better deal than the current ELT 5.1 special. I just wish the head honcho would come out of his self imposed exile and convince everyone that his latest sale really is all it's supposed to be!

How is he supposed to do this "convince everyone", given his history of promises after promises that didn't come through or came through much later than were supposed to I personally wouldn't take anything he said at this point with anything other than a grain of salt and a quick giggle.

I totally agree everything to this point should have been handled in a different manner but as of now, the only thing that can be done is correct the amp problem, which he said has been done and start selling again and let time work everything else out. To me anything else given the history would be pissing in the wind.

The only thing we can say for sure is a working MFW is an amazing product, even at the previous sale price, with the current pricing if indeed the amp problem is corrected, which I'm pretty much personally convinced everything has been done to insure this, then it's a steal.
post #58 of 1011
First off...answer to the question...NO its not


[quote=ack_bk;16622252]The HSU VTF-3 MK3 is $699+100 shipping. And I think the MFW-15 would be considered a superior sub. The HSU ULS-15 is $1099 + $60 shipping and handling and would be a more comparable sub to the MFW-15 performance wise.
QUOTE]

The MFW is in no way a superior sub then the 3.3. I have had both, and I can assure everyone that they are about equal. In my room, the 3.3 went lower. I would love to know how you came up with that conclusion...cause it's simply false.

Iam not sure how you can compare a ULS equal to a MFW...???..another very strange statement.

I have often praised on how well the MFW sounded for the "MONEY"...They sound excellent, as well as the hsu 3.3...very COMPARABLE...however, given the failure rate on amps and more importantly the lack of customer service, they are no longer a great sub for the money...unless you want a lack of customer service along with a very high failure rate. As a result, I would never recomend that sub until things are definitely resolved...and they are not.
post #59 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

"CONE of silence"......

Just playin'!

MLS has been posting quite a bit over at AV123.

First up, the announcements about the reintroduction of the MFWs with the new amps. More on replacing the old amps (first shipments of those should begin sometime next week). Now, the ELT525 + MFW for $1K deal.

Sale on the MFWs may not be extended past 6/19, based on current sell through.

In the last few weeks, I've spoken to MLS, Suzanne, Jess (and probably Kyle, at one point, too).

So, they haven't been incognito, by any stretch. MLS is posting publically. Just not here.

Gotta admit.....$500 for one MFW 15, or $900 for duals is a whole lot of LFE for the money.

Just watched Top Gun in Blu-Ray, all I can say is holy friggin crap!!! These dual MFW's have mad skills.

I wish I had room or need for the ELT deal with MFW, alas I'm trying to buy a pair of RSS300's and the wife is driving me nuts over it.
post #60 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 View Post

Just watched Top Gun in Blu-Ray, all I can say is holy friggin crap!!! These dual MFW's have mad skills.

I wish I had room or need for the ELT deal with MFW, alas I'm trying to buy a pair of RSS300's and the wife is driving me nuts over it.

I'm so glad your here adding value to the OP's thread instead of just posting non related drivel. Oh wait, I've got that backwards. Oh well...
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