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Blu Ray Player Synthetic and Real World Tests Comparisons - Page 17

post #481 of 856
12/8/09 at 3:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the average score is just that --- an AVERAGE of scores in different categories. notice that it still gets an 8 in DVD upscaling (just below the 9/10 top-tier upscalers like Oppo, Denon 2010).

all Winston did was do a simple unweighted average of all the scores. That is why each category is broken out so you can see what is important to you. The JVC is cheap, fast, and has great upscaling. Just because some other $500 player scores higher on average because it is built like a tank and has multichannel analog is irrelevant if you aren't going to utilize those things which cause it to score higher.

basically, examine the whole chart and weigh the things which are important to YOU and calculate your own personal score, don't worry about the overall average. So if you want an inexpensive, fast, reliable player but don't care about extra fluff, the JVC will do great.

well said
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post #482 of 856
12/9/09 at 6:40pm
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updated for JVC XV BP11
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post #483 of 856
12/9/09 at 8:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the average score is just that --- an AVERAGE of scores in different categories. notice that it still gets an 8 in DVD upscaling (just below the 9/10 top-tier upscalers like Oppo, Denon 2010).

all Winston did was do a simple unweighted average of all the scores. That is why each category is broken out so you can see what is important to you. The JVC is cheap, fast, and has great upscaling. Just because some other $500 player scores higher on average because it is built like a tank and has multichannel analog is irrelevant if you aren't going to utilize those things which cause it to score higher.

basically, examine the whole chart and weigh the things which are important to YOU and calculate your own personal score, don't worry about the overall average. So if you want an inexpensive, fast, reliable player but don't care about extra fluff, the JVC will do great.

Well here's my dilemma with this...... My main concerns are PQ & AQ & upconversion. Now it seems like as far as BD discs are concerned it's a wash and most player are going to be very close in this respect.
Now it looks like upconversion is a different animal. I'll try to make this short so here goes.
I recently purchased a Panny 50"G15 and they included a Panny 60 to sweeten the deal. Well I already have one,so I thought I would trade it in for a player that was close to the OPPO(with PQ,AQ,upconversion). Well to me it looked to come down to the Pioneer 51 or 320. Well the 51 was very close price wise to the 60 and the 320 was just under $300. I figure for $300 I might as well save for the OPPO or save my money and stick to the 60(which to me is a pretty decent player for what I paid for it($150). So it was down to the 51......so the question is,since the 60 wasn't on the list.I'm trying to figure out how "significant" of difference would I see between the 60 and the 51? Then how "significant" of a difference is there between the OPPO and the 51? If it's close(and it looks like per the chart that it might be) then I would save my money and get the 51. The other goodies are nice that the OPPO offers but not for another $350 or so. I have used BD live one time and that was just to try it and wasn't a big deal. netflix to me just doesn't make alot of sense to me because to my understanding you only get DD and I think there is a significant difference between DD/DTS and the new codecs(TrueHD,DTS-HD/MA) and picture is not the same as on disc.
So I'm trying to decide if the 51 is close to the OPPO with upconversion or just keep the 60 and try to sell it?
My problem with the 51 sounds like it has a few disc problems(reading them). I think the 320 is to much to consider.
Sorry i tried to make it short
I was hoping winston or someone else that has had all three(60,51,OPPO) could enlighten me on this dilemma?
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post #484 of 856
12/9/09 at 8:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPERMANROB View Post

Well here's my dilemma with this...... My main concerns are PQ & AQ & upconversion. Now it seems like as far as BD discs are concerned it's a wash and most player are going to be very close in this respect.
Now it looks like upconversion is a different animal. I'll try to make this short so here goes.
I recently purchased a Panny 50"G15 and they included a Panny 60 to sweeten the deal. Well I already have one,so I thought I would trade it in for a player that was close to the OPPO(with PQ,AQ,upconversion). Well to me it looked to come down to the Pioneer 51 or 320. Well the 51 was very close price wise to the 60 and the 320 was just under $300. I figure for $300 I might as well save for the OPPO or save my money and stick to the 60(which to me is a pretty decent player for what I paid for it($150). So it was down to the 51......so the question is,since the 60 wasn't on the list.I'm trying to figure out how "significant" of difference would I see between the 60 and the 51? Then how "significant" of a difference is there between the OPPO and the 51? If it's close(and it looks like per the chart that it might be) then I would save my money and get the 51. The other goodies are nice that the OPPO offers but not for another $350 or so. I have used BD live one time and that was just to try it and wasn't a big deal. netflix to me just doesn't make alot of sense to me because to my understanding you only get DD and I think there is a significant difference between DD/DTS and the new codecs(TrueHD,DTS-HD/MA) and picture is not the same as on disc.
So I'm trying to decide if the 51 is close to the OPPO with upconversion or just keep the 60 and try to sell it?
My problem with the 51 sounds like it has a few disc problems(reading them). I think the 320 is to much to consider.
Sorry i tried to make it short
I was hoping winston or someone else that has had all three(60,51,OPPO) could enlighten me on this dilemma?

let me put it this way for you - outside of true deinterlacing/cadence recognition errors (moire, cue, jaggies) - sd upconversion quality is largely subjective. The Pioneer 320 and 51 are going to give you the same image for dvd. The Pio 320 is a bit faster and more reliable on rentals, but a bit more money as you pt out. The premium to pay for a little speed and less sweaty moments upon bd load might be worthwhile, it might not. As for the Oppo, it's a great machine, but I would ask buyers who will not use its SACD and DVD-A capabilities if it is in fact the best solution for you. My experience with the Panny was that its dvd upconversion is pretty mediocre. Some disagree with me, but that's my impression after spending countless hours comparing blu rays.

If dvds look good to you on your plasma, then by all means keep the panny. You will probably get more out of your experience on getting a professional callibration for your plasma than upgrading your bd player at the end of the day.
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post #485 of 856
12/10/09 at 4:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

let me put it this way for you - outside of true deinterlacing/cadence recognition errors (moire, cue, jaggies) - sd upconversion quality is largely subjective. The Pioneer 320 and 51 are going to give you the same image for dvd. The Pio 320 is a bit faster and more reliable on rentals, but a bit more money as you pt out. The premium to pay for a little speed and less sweaty moments upon bd load might be worthwhile, it might not. As for the Oppo, it's a great machine, but I would ask buyers who will not use its SACD and DVD-A capabilities if it is in fact the best solution for you. My experience with the Panny was that its dvd upconversion is pretty mediocre. Some disagree with me, but that's my impression after spending countless hours comparing blu rays.

If dvds look good to you on your plasma, then by all means keep the panny. You will probably get more out of your experience on getting a professional callibration for your plasma than upgrading your bd player at the end of the day.

Winston thank you for your opinion and my Kuro has been professional calibrated. Winston (or anyone else that had(has) these players) in your opinion would there be a significant difference between the 60 and the 51 when it comes to upconversion? And in your opinion what about between the 51 and the OPPO? I value your opinion because you have had all these players and tested them all out. I understand it's subject and just an opinion. I want to personally say thank you for all the work you put into making this chart,it helps alot with trying to figure which player to go after.
SACD and DVD-A would be nice but I'm not sure if I would use it very much since I've heard they don't make many disc in this format let alone disc I would even buy. I usually listen( or prefer) to music in 2-channel anyway but i will say I have never heard either SACD and DVD-A.
The OPPO gets alot of great reviews and the player to get but I'm more concerned with the upconversion and reliability(as far as we are talking between these players).
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post #486 of 856
12/10/09 at 6:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPERMANROB View Post

Winston thank you for your opinion and my Kuro has been professional calibrated. Winston (or anyone else that had(has) these players) in your opinion would there be a significant difference between the 60 and the 51 when it comes to upconversion? And in your opinion what about between the 51 and the OPPO? I value your opinion because you have had all these players and tested them all out. I understand it's subject and just an opinion. I want to personally say thank you for all the work you put into making this chart,it helps alot with trying to figure which player to go after.
SACD and DVD-A would be nice but I'm not sure if I would use it very much since I've heard they don't make many disc in this format let alone disc I would even buy. I usually listen( or prefer) to music in 2-channel anyway but i will say I have never heard either SACD and DVD-A.
The OPPO gets alot of great reviews and the player to get but I'm more concerned with the upconversion and reliability(as far as we are talking between these players).


I think you will see a difference in moving up from the panny to the pioneer. the more form the pioneer to the oppo will also be noticeable, but probably not as much unless you are watching a really bad transfer
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post #487 of 856
12/10/09 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPERMANROB View Post

Well here's my dilemma with this...... My main concerns are PQ & AQ & upconversion. Now it seems like as far as BD discs are concerned it's a wash and most player are going to be very close in this respect.
Now it looks like upconversion is a different animal. I'll try to make this short so here goes.
I recently purchased a Panny 50"G15 and they included a Panny 60 to sweeten the deal. Well I already have one,so I thought I would trade it in for a player that was close to the OPPO(with PQ,AQ,upconversion). Well to me it looked to come down to the Pioneer 51 or 320. Well the 51 was very close price wise to the 60 and the 320 was just under $300. I figure for $300 I might as well save for the OPPO or save my money and stick to the 60(which to me is a pretty decent player for what I paid for it($150). So it was down to the 51......so the question is,since the 60 wasn't on the list.I'm trying to figure out how "significant" of difference would I see between the 60 and the 51? Then how "significant" of a difference is there between the OPPO and the 51? If it's close(and it looks like per the chart that it might be) then I would save my money and get the 51. The other goodies are nice that the OPPO offers but not for another $350 or so. I have used BD live one time and that was just to try it and wasn't a big deal. netflix to me just doesn't make alot of sense to me because to my understanding you only get DD and I think there is a significant difference between DD/DTS and the new codecs(TrueHD,DTS-HD/MA) and picture is not the same as on disc.
So I'm trying to decide if the 51 is close to the OPPO with upconversion or just keep the 60 and try to sell it?
My problem with the 51 sounds like it has a few disc problems(reading them). I think the 320 is to much to consider.
Sorry i tried to make it short
I was hoping winston or someone else that has had all three(60,51,OPPO) could enlighten me on this dilemma?

SUPERMANROB,

If you don't require the additional features that the Oppo has to offer, then I would go with the Pioneer 51FD. Other than its speed you should be very happy.


Respectfully,
Willie
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post #488 of 856
12/10/09 at 5:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

I think you will see a difference in moving up from the panny to the pioneer. the more form the pioneer to the oppo will also be noticeable, but probably not as much unless you are watching a really bad transfer

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

SUPERMANROB,

If you don't require the additional features that the Oppo has to offer, then I would go with the Pioneer 51FD. Other than its speed you should be very happy.


Respectfully,
Willie

Ok well they don't have anymore 51"s(discontinued) I can get a display model of the 320 for an extra $40. Said it was rarely used and comes with full warranty.
Is the the OPPO worth saving for or should I take the display 320 and call it a day?
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post #489 of 856
12/11/09 at 6:28am
I have a vsx-90txv receiver, and was wondering if i would notice any audio improvment using a bdp-51fd bluray player with multi channel audio out vs my ps3 with a fiber optic audio out??? Also would i see any picture improvments on my samsung 52a750
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post #490 of 856
12/11/09 at 8:36am
Thread Starter 
Requests? Needs to be an item that is sold in a B&M store with return policy.

Sony BDP N460?
Toshiba?
Insignia?
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post #491 of 856
12/11/09 at 8:36am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_iceman87 View Post

I have a vsx-90txv receiver, and was wondering if i would notice any audio improvment using a bdp-51fd bluray player with multi channel audio out vs my ps3 with a fiber optic audio out??? Also would i see any picture improvments on my samsung 52a750

yes and yes.
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post #492 of 856
12/11/09 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Requests? Needs to be an item that is sold in a B&M store with return policy.

Sony BDP N460?
Toshiba?
Insignia?

I'd be interested in both the Sony and the Insignia. Also interested in the Onkyo BD807 when it hits, but I don't expect much of anything different from the Marantz and Denon equivalents.

The JVC BP11 was my hope for the next super-cheap PQ sleeper, but it didn't carry over the processing (or implementation?) of the BP1. There's not really anything else on the market or announced that really exceeds its price-point in terms of DVD PQ, and the home-networking (not internet streaming) features don't seem to be evolving all that quickly either. Things may be dull until the CES announcements start.
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post #493 of 856
12/11/09 at 8:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post

I'd be interested in both the Sony and the Insignia. Also interested in the Onkyo BD807 when it hits, but I don't expect much of anything different from the Marantz and Denon equivalents.

The JVC BP11 was my hope for the next super-cheap PQ sleeper, but it didn't carry over the processing (or implementation?) of the BP1. There's not really anything else on the market or announced that really exceeds its price-point in terms of DVD PQ, and the home-networking (not internet streaming) features don't seem to be evolving all that quickly either. Things may be dull until the CES announcements start.

Totally agree. The JVC BP11 was a disappointment for me, but they have been due to higher than normal expectations based upon the BP1.

I might pick up the N460 at Bestbuy over the weekend.
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post #494 of 856
12/11/09 at 9:03am
I'm interested to see what the LG BD370/390 successors bring to the table in terms of networking features, specifically large MKV files over wired network, 802.11N, and general UI usability.

With Reon somewhat dead in the water and ABT not moving down into sub-$300 players, I don't have high-hopes for any new cheap players with great DVD scaling. I guess I'll keep my Oppo in the theater, P2550 in the bedroom, and BP1 as a backup until something really compelling comes along.
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post #495 of 856
12/12/09 at 6:50am
Thread Starter 
updated officially for panny 60/80
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post #496 of 856
12/13/09 at 12:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

updated officially for panny 60/80

Winston thank you very much for this update! I guess you didn't like it that much. I think after this I may take the chance on the open box 320.
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post #497 of 856
12/13/09 at 8:25am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPERMANROB View Post

Winston thank you very much for this update! I guess you didn't like it that much. I think after this I may take the chance on the open box 320.

The panny is a fine player - same player in my opinion less limited internet streaming features as the 35 i bought in october of 2008. that's my biggest gripe with it - player has not really improved significantly in over a year. compared to its peer group that has incorporated more consumer-friendly featues at this price leve like wireless or netflix streaming, it's a little lacking. the panny 80 and pioneer 320 are nearly head-to-head from a pricing perspective. between the two, i know where my $225 would go.
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post #498 of 856
12/13/09 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

The panny is a fine player - same player in my opinion less limited internet streaming features as the 35 i bought in october of 2008. that's my biggest gripe with it - player has not really improved significantly in over a year. compared to its peer group that has incorporated more consumer-friendly featues at this price leve like wireless or netflix streaming, it's a little lacking. the panny 80 and pioneer 320 are nearly head-to-head from a pricing perspective. between the two, i know where my $225 would go.

Well WHICH ONE! How do they compare with SD conversion?
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post #499 of 856
12/13/09 at 12:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPERMANROB View Post

Well WHICH ONE! How do they compare with SD conversion?

pio 320 will be superior in almost all cases
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post #500 of 856
12/13/09 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

pio 320 will be superior in almost all cases

I figured that,thanks Winston
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post #501 of 856
12/14/09 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Requests? Needs to be an item that is sold in a B&M store with return policy.

Sony BDP N460?

How about the 360? I've bought the 1000 just for the remote & regretted it a 1000 times I'm sure the 360 has exactly the same image (except the artifact inducing "enhancer" ofcourse) for a fifth of the price. Then again the same must be true for the 460. Too bad you returned the 1000, I'd like to see a head to head between the Sony family. I'm sure the picture/audio is the same but the price isn't.
For $700 the build is appauling as are the features. Performance for the price is mediocre at best. I recommend the 360 over the 1000 anyday.
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post #502 of 856
12/14/09 at 9:55am
Amazingly helpfull thread. Thank you Winston!

One thing that really surprises me is that the Denon DVD2500DBDCI only got a 5 for sound. Is it really that bad, even compared to lower end player? My dad has one of these, and it the sound is really that bad I might advise him to get something else.
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post #503 of 856
12/14/09 at 2:29pm
the "audio" score is not about quality, it's about feature set. read the notes under the table.

the 2500 is an HDMI-only transport, thus the low score (bitstream only, no analog, no multich analog, etc)
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post #504 of 856
12/14/09 at 2:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwin View Post

Amazingly helpfull thread. Thank you Winston!

One thing that really surprises me is that the Denon DVD2500DBDCI only got a 5 for sound. Is it really that bad, even compared to lower end player? My dad has one of these, and it the sound is really that bad I might advise him to get something else.

batpig's right - i tried to make the biggest difference in scoring for audio based upon featureset and a very limited swing based upon perceived quality (roughly a 2.5pt maximum) to limit my subjective scoring.
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post #505 of 856
12/14/09 at 2:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Requests? Needs to be an item that is sold in a B&M store with return policy.

Sony BDP N460?
Toshiba?
Insignia?

I would like to see how the Philips BDP5012 compares. It's sold at Sam's Club.
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post #506 of 856
12/14/09 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

pio 320 will be superior in almost all cases

Well I was able to trade in the 60 for the 320 for $29 I thought that was worth the shot. I'll see how it stands up to the 60
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post #507 of 856
12/15/09 at 12:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmr View Post

I was set on purchasing the JVC XV-BP1 since it is $119 at eCost and I've seen several people mention that it has similar upscaling quality as the Oppo.

However, I'm confused after looking at the chart in this thread since it shows the JVC right in the middle of the pack at 7.43. Any thoughts to help me understand why people mention this player as being very good for upscaling DVDs, but it only gets an average placement in this chart? Thanks for the help.

I bought mine from ecost and it arrived quick and in great condition. Mine is working just great but already can stand the lights.
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post #508 of 856
12/15/09 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Dark Knight: to anti-piracy page
Panny 60: 32 seconds

Pirates of the Car: Black Pearl

Panny 60: 32 seconds; Disney 50 seconds



Casino Royale: to Sony screen

Panny 60: 32 seconds

Powered off Eject Times by pressing Eject Button
Panny 60: 18 seconds


Which firmware version did you use to test this? On my Panny BD80 using FW v2.1 (not the latest BTW) I noted the following timings:

Dark Knight: to anti-piracy page
Panny 80: 25 seconds

Pirates of the Car: Black Pearl
Panny 80: Medallion: 25 seconds; Disney 40 seconds

Casino Royale: to Sony screen
Panny 80: 32 seconds to 007, 60 seconds to Sony Screen

Powered off Eject Times by pressing Eject Button
Panny 80: 7 seconds
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post #509 of 856
12/15/09 at 11:06am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yung View Post

Which firmware version did you use to test this? On my Panny BD80 using FW v2.1 (not the latest BTW) I noted the following timings:

Dark Knight: to anti-piracy page
Panny 80: 25 seconds

Pirates of the Car: Black Pearl
Panny 80: Medallion: 25 seconds; Disney 40 seconds

Casino Royale: to Sony screen
Panny 80: 32 seconds to 007, 60 seconds to Sony Screen

Powered off Eject Times by pressing Eject Button
Panny 80: 7 seconds

will have to re-confirm - it was my brother in law's.

we have different versions of casino royale it seems
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post #510 of 856
12/15/09 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

will have to re-confirm - it was my brother in law's.

we have different versions of casino royale it seems

I used the 2-disc collector's version of Casino Royale.
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