or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › LCD Flat Panel Displays › Sharp 700UN LED backlit series [No Price Talk]
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Sharp 700UN LED backlit series [No Price Talk] - Page 3

post #61 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG View Post

Guys, you talk about banding as if there is just one cause for the issue, there is not. And ALma, the new 10G plant is not up and running yet, so those panels did not come from there. I currently have friends working on installing equipment there and they are still testing, no production.

Most of what people were complaining about 2 years ago was caused by poor electronics that ran the panels. Some was manufacturing (panel based) issues and some of what was reported is the same crappy screen uniformity that all LCDs suffer from.

I see banding on my new 40" Samsung much worse than I see it on any of the Sharps that I have bought and still have.

Point being is that Sharp is in the business for making LCD panels not LCD TV sets. Sharp has set themselves up to become the largest panel supplier to the world market. They lost the #1 spot on the list of TVs long ago, but they are still expanding production. You will notice that there has been no complaints about banding on other brands of sets that they supply panels for.

You are obviously clueless to what Sharp banding is or work for Sharp to do damage control. If you don't work for Sharp and just a consumer, well, i would cease the banding talk, otherwise you will be taken to school by some of us very aware of Sharp....beginning with the Kameyama II plant. I would quit while you're behind.
post #62 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMA View Post

XS1 and the new Sharp series from Spring 09 (E77U) have no banding! XGen-ASV-Panel = new 10. panel generation. It must be from the new plant in Sakai...

I've had LC42D77X for 2 months now. Compared a lot and decided on Sharp because it displayed excellent picture.

Last month I noticed vertical bending..... now I can see horizontal and vertical bending at all times equally distributed across the whole LCD screen; the worst is vertical bend right at the middle of the screen

I prised this TV for its judder-free and generally great picture quality, but if you want to look at TV programme and not bends on your LCD TV - then DON'T buy Sharp....

The LCD screen was manufactured in Kayama factory in Japan - and it still has banding problems... I probably wont be able to watch this TV very soon because all I see are bands.... and will part with it (and Sharp) forever!

Boky
post #63 of 2511
Sharp 700UN LED are these in stores yet? anyone have one
post #64 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

You are obviously clueless to what Sharp banding is or work for Sharp to do damage control. If you don't work for Sharp and just a consumer, well, i would cease the banding talk, otherwise you will be taken to school by some of us very aware of Sharp....beginning with the Kameyama II plant. I would quit while you're behind.

I don't work for Sharp. I am "just a consumer". I am not "clueless". I have several years experience in LCD manufacturing and have as good an understanding of the issues as anyone here. Have fun with that.
post #65 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorenzow View Post

cool. I hope this doesn't turn into another Sharp banding forum.

BTW, these sets have already turned up on Canadian store sites. The prices seem reasonable but, absent local dimming, I don't know if LED vs. CCFL is still worth the price difference.

Some of the best LCDs still use CCFL
post #66 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahwig60 View Post

Sharp 700UN LED are these in stores yet? anyone have one

Not yet but we did get pricing. At least these panels are prices right.
post #67 of 2511
These Sharp sets looking promising, especially since both the 46" and 52" models are supposed to have a special feature to handle film based content (Blu-ray movies). However I am wondering how they will handle fast motion, especially when it comes to watching sports.
post #68 of 2511
I think Sharp is making a mistake with a 52" panel when all their closest competition, pretty much everyone else, is doing a 55" for probably about the same price.
post #69 of 2511
You may be right, but then again there are plenty of people who will need a 52" due to size limitations.
post #70 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

You may be right, but then again there are plenty of people who will need a 52" due to size limitations.

Could be...time will tell
post #71 of 2511
Im really anxious to see these sets.But after seeing the euro one,i feel they got the best looking one.And we're stuck with the gray/black while they have the better looking blue/black.
post #72 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

You are obviously clueless to what Sharp banding is or work for Sharp to do damage control. If you don't work for Sharp and just a consumer, well, i would cease the banding talk, otherwise you will be taken to school by some of us very aware of Sharp....beginning with the Kameyama II plant. I would quit while you're behind.

Spoken like a true know it all.

Yes I do know something about the industry, at the manufacturing level. I have spent several months in Japan in the last 3 years looking at the machines that make LCD panels (Litho cells only, some metrology). I offer my information based on real world knowlegde, not off of what I read on the web or here on the forum as it seems that you do.

I appriciate people like Lorenzow who have similar experience and will share it, not put downs with no substance.
post #73 of 2511
Was excited when I saw the sizes, for a moment, until I saw no local dimming...

Hope Samsung or someone offers something with local dimming at 40 inches or less...

(For PC/2nd TV purposes...)
post #74 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by S. Hiller View Post

Was excited when I saw the sizes, for a moment, until I saw no local dimming...

Hope Samsung or someone offers something with local dimming at 40 inches or less...

(For PC/2nd TV purposes...)

But if you read what Sharp has to say,they say local dimming is not needed on this panel....so this might be a very good led tv.
post #75 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG View Post

Spoken like a true know it all.

Yes I do know something about the industry, at the manufacturing level. I have spent several months in Japan in the last 3 years looking at the machines that make LCD panels (Litho cells only, some metrology). I offer my information based on real world knowlegde, not off of what I read on the web or here on the forum as it seems that you do.

I appriciate people like Lorenzow who have similar experience and will share it, not put downs with no substance.

Well maybe you can explain to me the bending problem then... Why does it happen and why is it so hard to fix?

I have tried everything to fix the bending problem on my Sharp LC42D77X to no avail... the picture is great with no noise at all and great detail, but I could not affect this bending issue...

Last 2-3 days I checked other LCxxD77X models - they all suffer from this flaw equally the same.

Boky
post #76 of 2511
What's a bending problem?
post #77 of 2511
It's what happens when you cast white people to play the parts of asian looking cartoon characters.
post #78 of 2511
I wonder how these sets compare with the Samsung LEDs in terms of picture quality and overall build quality? Now the Samsungs are very stylish and slim, whereas the Sharp sets look a bit thicker and have a more simple design. I've seen the Samsung LED series 7001 in Best Buy and it does look really nice. However I'm curious to see if the Sharp LED's are indeed a bit better, especially since it appears that LED's on the Sharp will automatically adjust to what is being displayed.
post #79 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by take-2 View Post

But if you read what Sharp has to say,they say local dimming is not needed on this panel....so this might be a very good led tv.

It could very well be a nice improvement over the previous panels. However, the dynamic range issue is fundamental to the technology.

For example, if the contrast ratio is 4000:1 that would translate to a dynamic range of less than a third of what a CRT could do (15,000 to 1).

Full screen dimming to achieve dynamic contrast is the other approach to address this, but necessarily has to darken the bright parts of the screen along with the dark parts as a side effect...
post #80 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme_Boky View Post

Well maybe you can explain to me the bending problem then... Why does it happen and why is it so hard to fix?

I have tried everything to fix the bending problem on my Sharp LC42D77X to no avail... the picture is great with no noise at all and great detail, but I could not affect this bending issue...

Last 2-3 days I checked other LCxxD77X models - they all suffer from this flaw equally the same.

Boky

If it's the banding problem I'm familiar with, dark bands compromising the panel's uniformity, pretty sure it's a manufacturing defect. And something that would require replacement of the panel to fix...
post #81 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonyHD View Post

I wonder how these sets compare with the Samsung LEDs in terms of picture quality and overall build quality? Now the Samsungs are very stylish and slim, whereas the Sharp sets look a bit thicker and have a more simple design. I've seen the Samsung LED series 7001 in Best Buy and it does look really nice. However I'm curious to see if the Sharp LED's are indeed a bit better, especially since it appears that LED's on the Sharp will automatically adjust to what is being displayed.

They both employ dynamic contrast schemes and should adjust in a similar fashion in that regard.

The LED array behind the panel, should give the Sharp an advantage in backlighting uniformity compared to Samsung's edge lighting approach.

But no idea about the uniformity of the new panel itself...
post #82 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by S. Hiller View Post

If it's the banding problem I'm familiar with, dark bands compromising the panel's uniformity, pretty sure it's a manufacturing defect. And something that would require replacement of the panel to fix...

Oh, he/she meant banding. I should have realized that. In that case, you are correct. It might even be wise to change brands.
post #83 of 2511
Does anyone know if Best Buy plans on carrying these new Sharp sets?
post #84 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorenzow View Post

Oh, he/she meant banding. I should have realized that. In that case, you are correct. It might even be wise to change brands.

Where I work I have bought allot of TV's for the average person.

I have bought 4 Toshiba's for a tradeshow display, 4 Sharps and a Samsung for a display of a machine installed locally, 1 Samsung for a apartment in at a remote service location and 2 Sharps and a Toshiba for our house. All of these sets have screen uniformity issues except one, the 42D72U Sharp. The worst is surprisingly the Samsung 40" for the apartment.

LED backlighting will not help with screen uniformity issues unfortunately
post #85 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG View Post

Where I work I have bought allot of TV's for the average person.

I have bought 4 Toshiba's for a tradeshow display, 4 Sharps and a Samsung for a display of a machine installed locally, 1 Samsung for a apartment in at a remote service location and 2 Sharps and a Toshiba for our house. All of these sets have screen uniformity issues except one, the 42D72U Sharp. The worst is surprisingly the Samsung 40" for the apartment.

LED backlighting will not help with screen uniformity issues unfortunately

Not with panel uniformity. Should certainly help with backlighting uniformity though...(Assuming actual backlighting and not edge lighting...)

No guarantees though. I still think the best thing to do is to only buy from a place with a generous return policy...
post #86 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG View Post

Where I work I have bought allot of TV's for the average person.

I have bought 4 Toshiba's for a tradeshow display, 4 Sharps and a Samsung for a display of a machine installed locally, 1 Samsung for a apartment in at a remote service location and 2 Sharps and a Toshiba for our house. All of these sets have screen uniformity issues except one, the 42D72U Sharp. The worst is surprisingly the Samsung 40" for the apartment.

LED backlighting will not help with screen uniformity issues unfortunately

I am not sure how is this going to help me understand what is the actual cause of LCD screen banding issue?

I have done extensive research and figured out that the issue is probably related to LCD manufacturing process, but I am still to find the logical and correct explanation as to what exact mechanism(s) are to be blamed.

Last weekend I played with brightness enhancement film sheet and figured that improvement in brightness level and evenness is much bigger gain compared to loos of angular brightness I have ordered these sheets from 3M and will try two sheets laid at 90deg to each other. This supposedly can further reduce CCFL current, so I'll see

I have also spaced the CCFL's equally and reduced backlight unevenness, reduced the power supply rail noise, improved ground potential uniformity - obtained truly excellent results apart from banding. Everything I tried produced no improvement at all Therefore, banding must be inherent problem related to LCD screen manufacturing process, but WHY, HOW???


Maybe someone on these forums can provide the answer. I just have to know....

Boky
post #87 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecgz88 View Post

it's weird, Sharp use full LED backlight but no local dimming

With LED's, TV manufacturer can overcome a difficult task of producing equal amounts of red, green and blue light output.

CCFL output peeks at green colour wavelength, and this is not easy to fix...

With LEDs, all you have to do is to include the appropriate amount of red and blue LED's to compensate.

Local dimming is not necessary because LCD screens can control the light very efficiently, Sharp is a leader here... (now, let's fix that banding once and for all)

The backlight output is more and more reflected and diffused these days.... less of this light is actually generated by current flow (power usage), and more is actually re-used / generated by light manipulation using reflectors, diffusers and plastic film lenses - prisms

Boky
post #88 of 2511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme_Boky View Post

Therefore, banding must be inherent problem related to LCD screen manufacturing process, but WHY, HOW???

Sounds like you are building a set from a raw LCD panel?

Screen uniformity issues have many root causes.

1. As Lorenzow stated liquid crystal fills in the cells for each pixel or areas on the screen can be non uniform. The LC layer is in between the Thin Film Transistor layer and the Color Filter layer on the front. Where there is more LC there is lower light transmission and therefore dimmer image in those areas. This is a panel problem that you can't just fix and is the biggest cause for LCD TV screen issues, IMO.

2. Poor Assembly. There has been some evidence here on the AVS boards that on some Samsung and Sony sets that sometimes the panel itself is stressed by the way it is mounted into the frame in the sets. Some enterprising people have taken the covers off and adjusted screws to relieve the pressure on the screen (around the corners, if I remember correctly) and solved some of the uniformity issues that way. Mainly "flashlighting" in the corners.

3. Again related to assembly, Sharp was running the raw panels down a assembly line that was made up of 2 lines of wide rollers. These rollers left "tank tracks" down the middle of the screen and many people could see them during normal viewing.

4. Electronics. Each Pixel (RGB) is independently controlled for the amount of bias that it needs to control the light passing through it for the overall picture. Mainly that light is controlled by the TFT on the screen itself, but the bias voltage comes from a source outboard the screen. If several rows of pixels are controlled from transistor A and th next several rows are controlled from transistor B and TA and TB are not matched properly you would see different overall bias voltage from row to row. If it was a large enough difference, you would see this as light and dark "bands" horizontally across the screen. My friends in Japan said that this was Sharps main issue for a long time.
post #89 of 2511
Getting back to the OP's original topic, does anybody have one of these yet?
post #90 of 2511
Thanks TNG, I appreciate your input.

I also apologise for being slightly off-topic, but believe that information exchanged here in this particulate thread could be useful to many “perfectionist” who are trying to obtain the best possible results from LCD TV technology…

I've tried various stress levels around LCD screen support frame, as well as various "mounting" stress levels - this produced no results. My definite conclusion is that stress levels do not influence banding in any way. Backlight “flashing” yes – and I managed to “polish” this as well, but not banding….

Rollers’ problem may be present – there was in fact the worst band right down the middle of the screen.

Pixel driver transistors are embedded within single "processor" chip. Yesterday I managed to further lower the power supply rail noise with noticeable improvement in banding. Also, I cleaned ribbon cable contacts and improved contact resistance in general between pixel driver PCB and two LCD screen connectors. The improvement is clearly visible and at this point banding does not represent deteriorating factor to watching this (otherwise really good!) TV.

Boky
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: LCD Flat Panel Displays
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › LCD Flat Panel Displays › Sharp 700UN LED backlit series [No Price Talk]