Odyssey audio gear + AV123 LS6 = magic

Awhile back, I started a thread discussing my then brand new LS6 speakers (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1127581). I was using my existing home theater preamp (Onkyo PR-SC885) and a Behringer EP2500 amp. I was very impressed with this setup especially considering the low cost of the electronics and honestly wondered if I were to upgrade the amp/preamp/dac, would it be a case a diminishing returns? I have heard some very nice systems (JM Labs Grande Utopia, Genesis 350SE, Wilson Audio Sophia) and was aware that mine wasn't quite there. Mostly, what I felt I was lacking was inner details (microdynamics), that last bit of smoothness on some forward recordings, and the 3D holographic imaging that I'd read my speakers were capable of.

So I starting browsing the AudiogoN listings for good deals on well reviewed gear with a total budget (amp/preamp/dac/cables) of around $2500. What I found was the Odyssey Audio Stratos Extreme Stereo amp, Odyssey Candela tube preamp and the Bel Canto DAC2. The reviews out there (audioreview + professional reviews) for Odyssey audio were all exceptionally good, so I decided to take the plunge. I ordered all of my cables directly from Klaus Bunge (owner of Odyssey Audio) since these are the same cables used internally in the amp and preamp.

So once all of my components arrived and I was still waiting on the cables (which Klaus makes himself) I decided to borrow a set of rca interconnects from radio shack and use my parts express 10 gauge stranded speaker cable. I realized this wouldn't be a fair impression of the system but thought it would be interesting for comparison anyway. So I powered up the system and gave it a few minutes to warm up. I couldn't hardly believe what I heard. The high's were harsh, the bass was lacking, the soundstage was collapsed and two-dimensional....What the hell is going on, I wonder? So I switched out the Stratos with the Behringer that I still had around - big improvement, if fact I can actually hear the extra detail that the DAC2/Candela is binging out. Now I'm convinced that the amp must be damaged and am getting frustrated with the guy I bought it from on AudiogoN. After I emailed the previous owner who assured me that the amp always gave him great sound, I gave Klaus a call. He's a patient, experienced and knowledgeable guy, which is clear when you talk with him. He suggested that I keep the amp turned on at all times since the power supply and capacitors take days (and even weeks) to fully charge. I guess this is true for most solid state gear, which I was not aware of. Also, he wanted me to wait until I received his cables (Groneberg Quattro reference) before coming to any judgment.

Two days later I receive the cables. I immediately noticed a BIG improvement in the sound from when I had first hooked everything up. Highs were smoother, bass was stronger, detail was noticeably improved over the Behringer amp. Was the sound magical with 3D holographic soundstage? Not quite.

So I left the amp powered on overnight and came back the next day. Wow, the sound really improved in a big way. Seriously, I would have never imagined what I heard. Soundstage depth and width blossomed. I never realized how 2D the presentation with the Behringer amp was until I heard this. The sound seemed to be coming from about twice the width of the distance between the speakers. Well recorded music really does sound holographic now. I sit about 13 feet from the speakers and I could swear some instruments are coming from right next to me or even a little behind me. The sound is so smooth and sweet (without a hint of softness) that it's difficult not to crank the volume every time I listen . Detail is pretty amazing, with all the low level background sounds now becoming distinct and identifiable. Also, all sounds/instruments/voices that I could easily distinguish before have a richer sound to them - just more realistic sounding. This makes all music so much more engaging and enjoyable to listen to. Dynamics, which I didn’t think could really improve much, have indeed improved. Peaks and transients are more prominent. Music is truly a joy to listen to on this system.

I also want to mention my observations about cable break-in. Klaus told me to expect the cables to sound good at first, then start to sound bad, but improve eventually to better than they started (after around 100+ hours). I thought this sounded a little crazy, but I really did notice a dip in the performance after about a week (10-15 hours of listening). Since then, I’ve played pink noise for about 60-80 hours or so and the sound is now better than ever. I know some of you don’t believe this occurs, which is fine, but I know what I heard....


The other speakers in this picture are Mackie HR824mk2's, which I use for home theater with dual SVS PB13-Ultra's.


The sweet spot...


A force to be wreckoned with...




I use the optical output from my PS3 to feed the Bel Canto DAC2, and HDMI output for the home theater.


The thick blue cables are the Groneberg Quattro's. I did my best to keep these out of the way of any power cords.

And I certainly appreciate the constructive style of your comment .

To clarify, the room is actually very large. It is almost a rectangular 22' x 38' with 10' ceilings. The back right corner is cut off about 5' x 10', as can be seen in the picture with the surround speakers. Speakers are about 8' apart along the 38' wall. Side wall reflections are not an issue since there is over 10' feet on each side from the speakers to the side wall. I'm sure the sound could benefit from front and back wall treatments, but the bass measures nearly flat to around 30 Hz (using Radioshack SPL meter) at the listening position and sounds uncolored with good definition.

Thanks for your feedback, pennygray. I agree with you the Mackies are a great speaker, especially considering their size and price. I'm really happy I didn't sell them and integrate my 2-channel and home theater systems. One of the cool things about my setup now is that I can do A/B comparisons easily between the two systems. I'm not going to say the Mackies are in the same league as the LS6 system, but they give a surprisingly big slice of the sound. They are not as smooth, the midrange and low level detail isn't as good, and images are more 2D. But the high end may have a bit more air and the tonal balance is a little more pleasing on some recordings (hard rock and heavy metal). Also, they tend to fill the room more uniformly with sound, which would make them great for parties .

I'm sure I will add room treatments in time. I haven't been at this hobby for as long as many of you, so I'm enjoying each stage until I find myself wanting for more (which always happens ).

I see your points, and I'm sure you are right. My thinking was that in the limit of an infinitely large room, one wouldn't need any treatments. So in a very large room, treatments play a smaller role than in an average size room. I've moved twice in the last year and each time to a bigger room for all of my audio gear. Each time the sound has improved in a real and noticeable way. I guess I thought I reached a point where the room wasn't a very big factor - probably wrong though considering the comments I am getting.

About the mirror argument, with sound reflections my understanding is that the distance to the first reflection point is critical to the effect it has on the sound. More than 10 feet will add some echos but should not smear up the midrange or highs much where the wavelength is much shorter than that distance.

So I got the message: room treatments have a (much) bigger effect on sound than electronics. That gives me something to look forward to for when I stop feeling thrilled by what I am hearing....which is really what this hobby is all about, right?

I'm getting the feeling that my impressions aren't being taken seriously, perhaps b/c I don't have as many posts as all you veterans. Perhaps I came across too enthusiastic and not objective enough. My enthusiasm is b/c I truly am thrilled with my system. If the upgraded components and cables hadn't improved my system in a significant way, I would have sold them - period. That is one of the reasons I bought used gear - higher % return upon resale.

With regard to cable break-in, there was one point when the sound was so bad I thought my Mackies sounded better. To make sure I wasn't crazy, I asked my wife to tell me which speakers sounded better as I blindly A/B'ed different music tracks for her. She picked the Mackies more often. That is when I began playing pick noise at night, which made a huge difference within a couple of days. Now it is immediately obvious that the LS6's sound superior in almost every way.

Let me state that I shared my impressions to add to the knowledge base about my components and their compatibility with one another. I didn't write my impressions to flaunt my audio knowledge or to show that I know more than other people. But somehow I get the impression that others enjoy this based on the tone of their comments. I even went so far as to reconnect my Behringer amps and Onkyo preamp today to see if I had been deluding myself. No comparison - the Odyssey components sound superior (untreated room and all). I can only imagine how good they will sound when I get around to treating the room!

Thanks for your comments, geared4me. I have used the LS6's for L/R in home theater as well, and they do an excellent job. But they do have a noticeably different tonal balance than the Mackies (more lower treble energy). I will probably get a third LS6 at some point after I invest in a projector and make/buy an acoustically transparent screen.

With regard to speaker positioning, one of the interesting things I discovered is that I like the LS6's tilted up just slightly (thus the towels in front of the speakers). Otherwise, I can't stand or walk around or else my head is above the tweeter array where the highs are attenuated.

No line conditioner, just a Tripp Lite surge strip. And both systems plug into this same type of strip.

Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll try that after I finish building the new speaker stands for my Mackies. In my previous room, I didn't have the Mackies next to them and I had them out about another foot from the back wall/TV. However, the sound staging is better in their current configuration. But this probably due to the larger room and better electronics more than anything. I'll be sure to let you know how it compares. As for the highs with these speakers, though, I don't think there's much one can do to improve vertical dispersion. The BG Neo8 PDR's are designed with limited vertical dispersion and the line array configuration tends to cancel whatever does disperse above/below the array (as I'm sure you are aware).

I tried moving them out away from the wall another foot and about an extra foot apart as suggested. The highs do seem a little cleaner but the biggest thing I notice is that the bass seems more defined.

fj6474, very nice setup. Those Magnepans look awesome and I'm sure sound amazing. I've read great things about them but never had the chance to listened to any.

As it turns out, I no longer own the LS6's. A great job opportunity initiated yet another moved (third within a year) and so I'm currently back to temporary apartment living. My apartment has an open 12'x13'x9’ living room which now serves as my audio/home theater room, so there was no way I was going to set up the LS6's in there. They really need at least 9' from the front baffle to the listening position for the drivers to sound coherent, not to mention space from the back wall and side walls - thus the sale.

Selling the LS6's presented a nice opportunity....I was able to attend the RMAF 2009 since I am now just a 6 hour drive from Denver (I live in Los Alamos, NM). At the show, I believe I learned a great deal listening to so many systems and in the end I came home with a new pair of speakers at an incredible deal.

The speaker I came back with is the Legacy Focus SE. This really is a tremendous speaker at any price IMO. I don't want to come across as overly dramatic, but the resolution and overall refinement is a big step up from the LS6's IMO. Yes, I was thrilled with my LS6's and couldn't imagine it getting much better just a few months ago, but attending the RMAF changed my perspective. The ribbon midrange/tweeter combo on the Focus SE is as transparent and natural sounding as any that I've heard. The dynamics (micro and macro) are incredible, and the tonal balance is very natural. I have yet to find any music that doesn't just sound "right". The bass can be a bit overpowering in my small room even with them positioned 3 feet from the wall (best I could do). I will be adding bass traps and a DIY projector screen made of rigid fiberglass under an AT white cloth. I plan to start another thread once this is done.