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Antimode 8033 - Page 17

post #481 of 554
Thanks, so isnt flat and Subsonic Filter Only, essentially the same thing?
post #482 of 554
If I understand the purpose of the subsonic filter correctly, it's a rumble filter and is intended to prevent your drivers from overextending themselves.

As to flat, with an introduced crossover roll off slope of -12dB/Octave, what's really flat?
post #483 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD in NJ View Post

Dayton Audio UMM-6
http://cross-spectrum.com/measurement/calibrated_umm6.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

Yeah, thanks.

Placed my order. Thanks again.
post #484 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Sub placement, sub based parametric settings (volume, frequency limit or High Pass filter, continuous phase control) plus internal AVR menu settings, including distance and individual speakers gain settings.

First things first, I try to get the measured best out of these settings with both Audyssey and Anti-Mode set to neutral. After getting the best I can, then I run Anti-Mode with Audyssey run second. After both EQ programs have been run, I change final speaker settings internally, using the AVR provided pink noise and a sound meter.

Currently I'm exploring the addition of a MiniDSP into the sonic stream but first I have more playing to do with parametric settings, Anti-Mode and Audyssey and then I'll decide if the addition of a MiniDSP is in order.

(How far do I want to drill down before being happy.)

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I connected Anti-Mode to my Hsu VTF MK2 instead of my two budget subs and I'm getting even better results. Anti-Mode works nicely in my room.

Why run Audyssey with Anti-Mode in Neutral, and not Flat? I understand Neutral mode disables low-pass.
post #485 of 554
If you study the the Antimode manual, you'll notice that Subsonic filter filters off frequency lower than 20Hz. It's good for those subwoofer that cannot reproduce the lower frequency bass, reducing unwanted stress. It's meant for filtering unwanted hum from old records.
post #486 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

I connected Anti-Mode to my Hsu VTF MK2 instead of my two budget subs and I'm getting even better results. Anti-Mode works nicely in my room.

Why run Audyssey with Anti-Mode in Neutral, and not Flat? I understand Neutral mode disables low-pass.

Are you also running a room analyzing program or is this all being done without the visual aid of a room analyzing program? How can anybody definitively know what's happening in their room's acoustics without this ever so necessary tool? Personally, I find it quite entertaining to see readings compress and open up as settings and placement changes are effected.

Please reread what I wrote. One wants to do an original subwoofer system set up pre-Anti-Mode and pre-Audyssey; neutral, without influence. Using a room analyzing program, a user should try to get the best out of their subwoofer system, before adding any EQ'g effort. Even with benefit of a sound meter, at best, one is guessing. A sound meter in use, usually fluctuates +/- 2-3dB and a sound meter has an accuracy of +/- 1.5 - 2 db. That's a lot of inaccuracy to depend upon when taking room measurements, not to mention that most general purpose sound meters are limited to reading >31.5Hz.

I'm sure in the back of everybody's mind is the maintained thought that Audyssey EQ's the whole perceivable sonic spectrum and offers speaker setting "recommendations" to all speakers via the AVR not just the sub-250Hz range like Anti-Mode, 8033S II does. Anti-Mode should be added to aid removal of any peaks or help decrease mounds to reduce dynamic range (creating flat measured sonic acoustics) and then Audyssey's analyzing recommendations and EQ'g efforts should be added on top of Anti-Mode's efforts.

Step one, via a room analyzing program and with the aid of a calibrated handheld sound meter, without any EQ'g influence (if necessary, disconnect Anti-Mode from subwoofer chain), using user subwoofer placement efforts and a subwoofer's parametric settings, get the best measured output of one's subwoofer system. And if no analyzing program, no soup.

Step two, with Audyssey set to original factory settings, run Anti-Mode and afterwards, check the results with a room analyzing program and to obtain best measured results, as necessary, tweak the subwoofer's parametric settings accordingly.

Step three, run Audyssey and again, afterwards, set internal AVR settings to best serve your "measured" needs (not that of others) and tweak any subwoofer parametric settings to gain the best measured results.

Hope the above clarifies any misunderstandings I created and forgive me for any additional misunderstandings my above creates. tongue.gif

(YAY! The taxes are done. So, next week, the room analyzer will be set up and based on the last saved REW measuring secession and what understandings I've recently come up with, it's all about setting up and seeing what the room analyzing program and parametric changes, have to show. And in the meantime, I'll get to use the latest, way cool, internally calibrated, sound meter purchased. In my opinion, it's a journey, not a destination and the movie soundtrack is the "parfait" desert. tongue.gif)

PS: At the same time the above is being done, the MiniDSP is being looked into as my opinion, I don't think the Anti-Mode, 8033 is the best augmentation solution to solving subwoofer room acoustical problems and my personal opinion, yes, better can be obtained but in order to do so, one must throw the baby out with the bathwater and start over.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 2/10/13 at 9:58am
post #487 of 554
I'm using a RadioShack SPL meter with my player's internal test tones. I also have the AIX calibration test disc which someone here in the forum recommended. I'm going 5.1 analog direct to my power amps, so no Audyssey for now. That may change once my Dayton Audio mic arrives and I start using REW.

It's nice to know how others deal with their subs to obtain that magical response from their system as a whole. You are quite methodical in your approach and I appreciate you sharing that with me. This journey, as you say, never ends it seems, but knowing you're on the right track is fun.
post #488 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

If you study the the Antimode manual, you'll notice that Subsonic filter filters off frequency lower than 20Hz. It's good for those subwoofer that cannot reproduce the lower frequency bass, reducing unwanted stress. It's meant for filtering unwanted hum from old records.

Much like the subsonic filters included in some subs and EQs, llike on the SMS-1, right? I don't know why I was thinking this might affect mid-range frequencies...maybe got confused with LIFTS for a moment.
post #489 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

If I understand the purpose of the subsonic filter correctly, it's a rumble filter and is intended to prevent your drivers from overextending themselves.

As to flat, with an introduced crossover roll off slope of -12dB/Octave, what's really flat?

Perhaps they should relabel this Normal mode.
post #490 of 554
"Subsonic" an object is moving slower than the speed of sound. By definition, sound can not be moving at a slower speed.
"Infrasonic" refers to frequencies commonly thought to exist below the human hearing threshold (in a broad sense, 20hz-20khz, but individuals hearing sensitivity can and does differ from person to person).

The high pass filters used are designed to limit infrasonic material which may cause damage to some drivers in some systems at some levels. They are not "subsonic" filters,

/rant
post #491 of 554
Two points, the English language is a dual use language where one word may have many meanings or usages and this is not counting potential tenses. In the case of subsonic, it's primary usage is: "1. Of less than audible frequency."

The second point, if one goes to the Anti-Mode manual, page 4, they will find the use of the term; "subsonic."

In the case of "infrasonic" it to has dual usage. One for waves and one for vibrations: "Generating or using waves or vibrations with frequencies below that of audible sound."

The American (English) language is a curious language, indeed. Even the word curious lends itself to this duality in speech. Some words are so curious that they have tertiary meanings and even more curious is the fact that even tertiary suffers from this dual speech quality.

Just saying.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 2/10/13 at 1:05pm
post #492 of 554
Just watched The Avengers with Audyssey DynamicEQ switched on. The bass heavy scenes cause the Bypass LED to flash. The Lift35 LED does not flash at all. I guess it's still safe?

Quote from manual:
Quote:
Input Level Warning
If the input signal level in the Anti-Mode 8033's Analog to Digital Converter (ADC) is near the maximum input range, the user is warned in two phases. If the input signal level has only 3 dB of headroom remaining, the BYPASS LED will start flickering. If the level increases from this, the signal starts to saturate at the ADC input and harmonic distortion increases. If the input level reaches maximum, the LIFT35 LED starts flashing. When the input level is reduced the LEDs resume normal operation.
post #493 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Just watched The Avengers with Audyssey DynamicEQ switched on. The bass heavy scenes cause the Bypass LED to flash. The Lift35 LED does not flash at all. I guess it's still safe?

Quote from manual:

If your Audyssey sub level is a "+" then redoing so it's a "-" should help I'd think. Also, if your DEQ setting is "0" that would only be relevant if you listen at "0" relative volume, so you could reduce that. I have good luck simply setting DEQ at the nearest number to correspond with the highest volume I use. For me, the loudest I ever have it is -12, so I use 10 as a DEQ setting.
post #494 of 554
ok, so i was listening to music loud, and i saw the lights blinking on the Anti Mode 8033Cinema, and then i turned it up a little more and i noticed distortion, so is there a way to fix my problem?, BTW i have a Emotiva UMC-200 processor, the level of the sub is at 0, both of the subs gain is at 1/4th the way up, at my MLP, i get 71db, i find that 75 is way to much, but when listening to music i turned the gain on the umc to +9 (it goes up to +10), so should i lower the gain on the umc, and up the gain on my subs?. THANKS A BUNCH.
post #495 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshjp View Post

ok, so i was listening to music loud, and i saw the lights blinking on the Anti Mode 8033Cinema, and then i turned it up a little more and i noticed distortion, so is there a way to fix my problem?, BTW i have a Emotiva UMC-200 processor, the level of the sub is at 0, both of the subs gain is at 1/4th the way up, at my MLP, i get 71db, i find that 75 is way to much, but when listening to music i turned the gain on the umc to +9 (it goes up to +10), so should i lower the gain on the umc, and up the gain on my subs?. THANKS A BUNCH.

Correct. First measure the level with a test signal like internal test tones in the processor. Then reduce the processor's sub level from 0dB to -10dB and then adjust (increase) the gain dials on the subs to bring them back to the same measured SPL. This saves you a lot of hunting up and down to find a good volume and gives you a very useful increase in headroom. In raising the gain on the subs, you get the same SPL from less signal going through the Antimode which you are currently at the limit of.
post #496 of 554
Ok thanks alot Mark, yea now with the dual Empires the gain is almost half way, will test next weekend.
post #497 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshjp View Post

ok, so i was listening to music loud, and i saw the lights blinking on the Anti Mode 8033Cinema, and then i turned it up a little more and i noticed distortion, so is there a way to fix my problem?, BTW i have a Emotiva UMC-200 processor, the level of the sub is at 0, both of the subs gain is at 1/4th the way up, at my MLP, i get 71db, i find that 75 is way to much, but when listening to music i turned the gain on the umc to +9 (it goes up to +10), so should i lower the gain on the umc, and up the gain on my subs?. THANKS A BUNCH.
Which light is/are blinking?
Quote from manual:
Quote:
Input Level Warning
If the input signal level in the Anti-Mode 8033's Analog to Digital Converter (ADC) is near the maximum input range, the user is warned in two phases. If the input signal level has only 3 dB of headroom remaining, the BYPASS LED will start flickering. If the level increases from this, the signal starts to saturate at the ADC input and harmonic distortion increases. If the input level reaches maximum, the LIFT35 LED starts flashing. When the input level is reduced the LEDs resume normal operation.
post #498 of 554
I didnt look at what one started to blink first, but one blinked, at that time i had the volume at 52 one the umc-200, then i turned it to 54 then the other light started blinking.
post #499 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshjp View Post

I didnt look at what one started to blink first, but one blinked, at that time i had the volume at 52 one the umc-200, then i turned it to 54 then the other light started blinking.
Looks like the input level is too much for the Antimode. Please increase the sub volume (on the sub amp plate) and reduce the sub level trim on your processor (can be done through it's auto calibration mic)
post #500 of 554
OK thanks, yea i did that now, will test hopefully soon, now i got the umc-200's sub trim at -10, and now the sub amp gain is almost half way up. THANKS
post #501 of 554
I've got a Pioneer SC-07 and SVS PB13-Ultra. I need some automatic room calibration for the sub.

What model of the 8033 is best for me and why? Or is there only one out of the 4, 8033s for Sub calibration?

Also, where can these be purchased online with US currency?
post #502 of 554
The Anti-ModeS II can be used in stereo or two mono connections. I use it as a pair of mono connections.

It's a Canadian company that has a US office address for US Post Department shipping.

This is whom I purchased our DSPeaker, Anti-ModeS online from using plastic: Creative Sound Solutions

I find that when used in tandem with Audyssey, MultEQ XT, the results are what I would consider to be adequate; it works. I want better. If one wants better, my recommendation is to checkout REW room analyzing software which couples with the miniDSP.

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post #503 of 554
The Antimode 8033 Cinema will be good enough unless you have plan for stereo input, which you'll require 8033S-II or Dual Core 2.0 model.
post #504 of 554
Semi OT: For anyone interested, I have a brand new AntiMode 8033 Cinema I'm thinking about selling for 350 shipped. I purchased it a week ago not realizing it only normalizes modes (peaks), not dips. The FR in my room is fairly flat with a slight dip in the 40-60hz range and think something like a miniDSP will be more suited to raise the dip rather than the AM. I tried it once and it definitely does what it says - but it's just not what I'm looking for. I'll probably be listing it on B&S in the next few days.

PM if interested...
post #505 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

I'm using a RadioShack SPL meter with my player's internal test tones. I also have the AIX calibration test disc which someone here in the forum recommended. I'm going 5.1 analog direct to my power amps, so no Audyssey for now. That may change once my Dayton Audio mic arrives and I start using REW.

Just wanted to post a measurement using REW.

Green = FR with one sub and no Anti-Mode
Red = FR with Anti-Mode 8033 SII running 2 subs in mono

Both traces with 1/6 smoothing applied



Very nice result with Anti-Mode!
post #506 of 554
Very, very nice.

I'm envious as without the addition of more sound absorption material, our room won't allow us to have that nice of a graphed response. The addition of sound absorption material, would quite literally mean, redecorating the "WHOLE" living room. eek.gif If married, I'm sure you know how the WAF works and if I'm going do this then the wife is going want to do that. Quid pro quo baby.

Again, very nice. Out of curiosity, did you do a full spectrum sweep you can readily post or did you make a bass sweep? I'm curious how the rest of the sectrum graph looks. And the reason I ask, I find myself getting caught up in the centric nature of the subwoofer forum and at times, personally lose sight of how the rest of the response spectrum is doing. And so you don't think I'm laying some sort of immature troll trap, ours is acceptable and could use more improvement. I'm currently working on possible solutions in my head before tearing the graph apart and rebuilding it again.

And so you know what door I'm knocking on, it's always nice to see how the Jones' are doing with their efforts as there's nothing wrong with keeping up with the Jones'. smile.gif

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 4/15/13 at 4:05am
post #507 of 554
Thanks, BeeMan. No need to be envious, the full range measurement is far from perfect.

Here's the left speaker. Green is without Anti-Mode, red is with Anti-Mode.

I have to play more with the sub distance. I find it has quite an affect in the XO region.

I'm so encourage by the result, this morning I ordered an Onkyo 818 with Audyssey for midrange and highs.

post #508 of 554
Audyssey hates our room and wouldn't come up with a decent graph if a new born puppy's life depended on it. eek.gif

Unfortunately, I get a better graph out of Anti-Mode and the MultEQ GraphEQ than I do when running Audyssey MultEQ XT.

Below is a superimposed graph, with and without Audyssey; 15Hz to 150Hz. The system is a 5.3 reproduction system. The gold line is with Audyssey engaged. eek.gif



Without Audyssey engaged, the graph is what I call "good enough" but from the superimposed graphs, you can see why I'm envious of your graphs.

Below gives you an idea how badly Audyssey, MultEQ XT tears up our room's acoustics. The green line is what Audyssey says is a good faith effort as it runs all over the map. eek.gif



Disclosure, the WAF says, no room treatments allowed. What you're seeing are graphs measured in a very active (((echo))) room.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 4/15/13 at 3:24pm
post #509 of 554
I have sound panels on the walls and corners that should help Audyssey. I'll post results when I have the 818 up and running.

I'm actually very happy with my prepro. If Audyssey does not work in my room, I will return the AVR and concentrate on bass traps and further room treatment.
Edited by Pres2play - 4/16/13 at 3:07am
post #510 of 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

I have sound panels on the walls and corners that should help Audyssey. I'll post results when I have the 818 up and running.

---snip---

I will return the AVR and concentrate on bass traps and further room treatment.

Out of curiosity, how much have you spent for existing sound panels and how much additional do you expect to spend on additional or further room treatments?
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