*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 2310CI / 890 Owner's Thread - Page 52

For all you audiophiles, a question about SACD playback:

With the input via HDMI (PCM), should Audyssey MultEq be ON or OFF? With it enabled, the sound is very clear, but almost too crisp and a little too much from the surrounds. Turning it OFF, the sound is fuller, more like that from the EXT analogs. It would seem as if that would be the logical way to listen to SACDs (without any processing), but, not being an audiophile, I don't always trust my own judgment.

And for you guys with media PCs:

I'm not sure what the correct setting for HDMI setup --> RBG Range should be: Normal or Enhanced. The CCC for my ATI card allows setting pixel format to:

YCbCr - 4:4:4
YCbCr - 4:2:2
RGB - 4:4:4 Studio (Limited RGB)
RGB - 4:4:4 Standard (Full RGB)

I would think if I have the 2310 set to "Normal", then the ATI card should be set to "Studio." Or "Enhanced" on the 2310 should be paired "Standard." If this is correct, which would be the preferred pairing?

Or should I be sending YCbCr 4:4:4 to the 2310, as my display is native 4:4:4, or so I'm told.

to be clear, the audio up and down still works fine, it's just that the gui doesn't show it on screen once dyn vol has been engaged, without some other step to make it work again. It does still show on the receiver front if one has eagle eyes Of course, otoh, that just makes it work like all the other receivers that don't have a gui...

but still it's a small flaw

I am in complete agreement with scubie on this issue. First, thank you for figuring out the cause of the volume disappearing. I saw it occur a few times, but never made the connection with dyn volume. It seemed to be occurring randomly.

This is not really a big deal to me for a few reasons. First, I have owned receivers for years without volume overlays, so I can live without it.

Also, I tend to dive into the menu to access dynamic volume, because using the dedicated button does not allow you to see what mode you are in. It simply says on or off. Plus I don't actually use dyn volume all that often.

The benefits of upgrading to this receiver far outweigh this minor glitch. I re-ran my audyssey setup last weekend after making some minor adjustments to my front speaker positioning and tweaking my sub level a little more. (Yes I am a tweaker and the trim is now sitting at +2.5) I also used a different tripod that allowed me to get a more consistent microphone height for all 6 measurements. I have been extremely happy with the performance with one small caveat.

Good clean source material sounds amazing. Blu-ray, XBOX 360 and PS3 games, even a well mixed movie on cable. But I am finding myself turning up the volume higher and higher during normal TV watching in order to clearly hear the dialog.

I know it's not an apples to apples comparison, but on my old Denon I would rarely exceed -30db when watching normal TV, now I find myself bumping the volume to -20db or slightly beyond. I have a feeling it is due to the dynamic eq boosting the surrounds and I just need to get used to it and move on. The bad TV mixes have always been bad, I just think that a better processor is exposing the flaws in greater detail than I have ever heard before. Setting the reference level offset to 10db does seem to help, but not in all cases.

On the other hand, with a good mix I find that dynamic eq does exactly as advertised and allows me to watch at a much lower volume level and still get the full impact of the surrounds and bass.

haha actually it was eonone1 who figured out it was after engaging the dyn volume that the volume gui wouldn't work, I just tested it on mine and confirmed. I agree, though, that while mildly annoying, if I think about it my last receiver didn't have the gui at all, so it's not a deal breaker. Probably an easy fix on their end one would think, though.

I agree that with more and more tinkering the 2310 gets better. Not a super intuitive receiver to initially set up, but one can eventually get it decently dialed in.

I confused as to one aspect of the receiver. I have a Samsung LN52A750 with HDMI-CEC enabled.

When I turn on the 8300HD + TV + 2310Ci, everything works great then the 2310Ci suddenly changes its source to TV, instead of HDMI1. Why is it doing this on its own? Is there a setting I am missing? I would like it to stay on HDMI1 when I turn it ON.

Hi. I'm trying to find out, without being able to watch for myself, if the Anchor Bay 2010 video chip is implemented well enough in the 2310 to skip buying an Oppo BDP-83. I'm just building up my first system, and have to buy a BD player and a receiver. I can save some dough on the player if the money I'd probably spend on the receiver anyway buys video processing (esp. on SD dvds) as good as the Oppo's. I know I saw one opinion earlier in the thread that said images were comparable, but I was hoping for some more comments since some time has past since those posts. Thanks in advance.

Ok, I will turn it off. So much for HDMI-CEC making things easier for consumers...

That was one of the main reasons I got the Denon--sort of like getting an Oppo with a receiver virtually thrown in for $50 or so. Only you can run your cable/other sources through it too =)

Thanks for the reply, scubie. Does the chip work in the receiver like it does in the Oppo, though? I gather from reading posts around here (I'm new to this stuff) that just using the same part doesn't mean the same results from the Denon. I've read Amazon reviews saying the Oppo make good sd dvds look like blu-rays.

Wow Batpig, thanks for the great reply. I would have missed the need for source-direct transport completely otherwise. I had seen winston9332's post earlier, but I knew I needed to know more (though I wasn't sure what).

Well, I have both and I would say it is probably safe to say that the image is comparable between the Oppo and the 2310 (I have the 3310 but it has the same video processing as the 2310). However, I reached this conclusion with the Oppo as my output to the 3310 with the Oppo set to source direct; I can't say whether you would achieve the same results with another player. Also, you have to bear in mind that the list of player's capable of being set to source direct for DVD and BD are limited; in fact, the only players that come to mind are Pioneer players which tend to load BDs rather slowly. There are other players like Sony BD players which can generally output 480i but cannot be set to source direct, rather, you must change the output setting each time you playback a disc with a different resolution so that you can take advantage of the video processing in the 2310. So unless I've missed something the only players cheaper than the Oppo that can do what you want are the entry level Pioneer players and they make substantial tradeoffs in speed to get there.

Also, even if you went this route you have to consider that Oppo has built in far more functionality than any of the Denon AVRs; for example, the Oppo can correctly sense the aspect ratio of disc material and properly format it; the Denon AVRs cannot. For example, you have a choice to set the Denon AVRs to output SD material in either full or normal aspect ratio, this means that 16x9 enhanced SD will be squeezed if the asepct ratio is set to normal or 4x3 material will be stretched if the aspect ratio is set to full; bottom line, you can't win.

Other enhancements the Oppo offers include zoom functions (which is most useful for non-enhanced widescreen material, rare on the mean feature film these days but still commonplace in terms of extras) and the ability to separately specify whether the player outputs SD and HD material in 24 fps.

Another shortcoming in the Denon AVRs is that Denon chose not to activate the PReP function on the ABT2010 chip; had the PReP feature been enabled it would be able to take a 480p source such as from a PS3 (which offers good but not great deinterlacing) and reinterlace the 480i signal to then apply proper deinterlacing. Had this feature been activated as it is in the Yamaha RX-V3900 and Z7 AVRs the Denon would have been able to offer video enhancement to many poorly deinterlaced sources.

Overall, what I'm trying to say is that the video processing performance in the Denon AVRs is great but it is hampered by its limited flexibility such that it is no substitute for an Oppo BD player.

Anyway, that's just my $.02

hmm, are you sure about this, because this document from anchor bay seems to suggest they DO have the PReP feature

http://www.anchorbaytech.com/docs/pd...esign_wins.pdf

batpig, EVT, scubie02, thanks for the excellent help. It sounds like there aren't many alternatives to the Oppo if I want the Anchor Bay processing, since there are so few cheaper source-direct players out there. And, I would miss out on some of the capabilities of the Oppo 83, anyway.


Thanks again.

Got one of these in the Electronics Expo deal (waited nearly a month for it) to upgrade an old 1609, and eagerly started ripping apart my gear to rewire everything w/ HDMI.

Ran into the stupid SA 8300HD problem, but that's a story for another time.

I finally got things connected to my satisfaction and started the long process of setting up and customizing all my inputs. Everything was sounding good, I stowed everything in it's place, the connections still seemed solid, and I was happy.

Yesterday, I come home, turn everything on (from standby) to watch a little cable (over component & optical *sigh*), and no sound. WTF?

If I turned it up to -20db, I could hear static and a little tiny bit of the audio. Tried my BD source, same thing. The inputs showed exactly what signal was coming through (changing cable channels changed correctly), but nothing.

Checked if I accidently hit zone 2, nope -- on main. No HDMI control (pointless). Tried the test tone... and it played from *all* speakers -- couldn't switch from speaker to speaker, except for triggering a bit of subwoofer rumble when selecting that. *That* can't be good.

Power-cycled w/ standby did nothing, so I went to the cabinet and hard-cycled. All better. *Phew*

...or so I thought. After an evening of more tweaking, I shut down again (to standby), and when I came home today, the wind had died down and it seemed quiet enough to start Audessy. Powered up, plugged in the microphone, and the test tone started coming out of all speakers right away, with the menu automatically coming up wanting to start Audessy. Ok, I thought, I guess this is the way it works, so I started it. A couple of knocks started coming from the LF (the test tone coming from everywhere still), and it tells me No Speaker or Mic not connected. Grrr. Tried a couple of times, tried looking up info here, nothing.

Then it occured to me that I might be having the same problem, and tried switching over to cable -- sure enough, same problem. Ok, just power-cycle, right?

Wrong. A dozen attempts or so and nothing. I resorted to the Hard Reboot as per the manual.... Nothing. Tried it a couple of more times. Grrr.

My next step is to get back behind the cabinet and try to disconnect the power entirely and let it sit overnight. But if that doesn't help, then, well... Grrr. What a giant hassle! Serves me right with trying to go for a sweet bargain.

I'm also a dual owner of the 2310 and the OPPO 83, and all I can say is, EVT's post was so thorough and on the money that I'm happy all over again to have both.

Jeff confirmed there is NO PreP, NO edge enhancement and NO detail enhancement implemented on the ABT chip in the 2310.

only on 2310 or also in 33/43/4810 ?

Confirmed NOT implemented on the 3310 as well, not sure about the 4310 or 4810, but most likely not implemented on them as well.

...an update, after I took some time to calm down, I tried two more things.

First I tried testing my one analog source going into the 5.1 rcas... and *that* worked -- but all digital inputs were still out.

Lastly, I decided to hold the "reset" cycle for 10 whole blinks. Kind of a shot in the dark. Sure enough, the digital inputs came back. *sigh*

So, first thing I'll check tomorrow is if it is just going to start all over again or not, or is it finally cleared up... it's a royal PITA to have to go back and re-do all of the inputs after resetting, and it's unacceptable if I'm going to have to do that every so often.

Does anyone know if it's possible to input an outdoor TV antenna into the 2310. The antenna input seems to indicate an FM antenna.

The 2310 is designed to have an external FM Radio antenna attached via the 75 ohm coax connection. Some TV antenna's (Band 2 channels) are designed to receive FM signals, others are not. If your antenna has a coax cable line, give it a try. You may find you have to adjust the antenna towards the FM source.

Earlier in this topic i wrote about the problems i had: flashing screen on htpc and input lag on xbox 360. Now i turned off the i/p scaler and video conversion. It helped! However with the htpc i have no sound, the settings are set to amp and not tv. Does anyone know how to solve this?

The only downside of my 'solution' is this:

Quote Batpig's guide:
on new '10 models with a full GUI overlay, the GUI will only display if Video Conversion is set to ON.

I hope the audio part can be fixed or else i'm afraid i have to go back to my old situation and connect my devices directly to the tv and let the audio go optical to the 2310. Then there goes the advantage of being able to connect all the hdmi devices to 1 receiver. Well maybe i should buy a harmony one for that.

...Final report in this saga: First thing this morning, I turn it back on (from standby w/ remote), test it, and nothing. Tried the hard reset (for only 5 blinks instead of 10) -- nothing.

My concern now is that when trying to return it for an exchange at EE, they're going to turn it on and it'll "work", and they'll hit me with a restock fee. (plus, is it going to be another month before a replacement gets shipped?) And in the mean time there's no going back to the old receiver because I tore out all my old wiring in hopes that these spiffy new HDMI cables would be, well, spiffy!

Sucks to be me. I've always had such good luck with Denon before.

I am very near to buy 2310.
Will anybody tell me if AVR can convert video the following way:

1) Inverse telecine transform:
480i@59.94 (film source, 3:2 telecine inside) --> 1080p23.976
1080i@59.94 (film source, 3:2 telecine inside) --> 1080p23.976

2) Decimation transform:
480p@59.94 (film source, 3:2 telecine inside) --> 1080p23.976
720, 1080p@59.94 (film source, 3:2 telecine inside) --> 1080p23.976

Chip ABT 2010 http://www.anchorbaytech.com/product...rs/abt2010.php can do all that transforms.
Does 2310 have special cadence detection modes (automatic, video, film-bias, forced 3:2 and 2:2) like ABT 2010 has?

Smoothie, thanks for the reply. I'm actually trying to play over-the-air HD TV channels through the receiver, not hear FM stations. Any insights into how I can do that?