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*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 2310CI / 890 Owner's Thread - Page 66

post #1951 of 7166
Just bought my 2310 4 days ago and am very pleased with it. All the connections and setup went fine, with help from Batpig's great setup guides. Just have 2 questions that I can't decipher from the manual, or anywhere else.

1. My Definitive Technology BP2000 tower speakers have built-in powered subs with line level preamp inputs. Can I use the Denon preamp outputs, which are designed to go to a recorder, for the subwoofer use? When I perform the Audyssey auto EQ, will it work with and equalize my front speaker subs even if they are connected through these recorder preamp outputs?

2. My second question concerns Audyssey dynamic EQ. What is the reference level below which it starts boosting the rear channels. Is it the 0 setting on the volume control? I have been listening mainly at a setting of -10 to -15 on the volume control. While I really like what it does, it is boosting the rear channels volume higher than I think they shoud be for best front-to-back balance. How does the receiver know what volume level setting is the reference, below which it starts boosting the surround channels, and how can I reset this reference level on the 2310?
post #1952 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider33 View Post

Thanks... I think I'll at least try it out, anyway.

Hi slider33,

To make you rest assured my 2310 has about 2.5" above the top as free space, about 0.5" on the right side, though the left side is totally open. See here:



So, when I put my hand on top of the 2310 after an hour (or two) of operation at about -25 to -30dB master volume level in a living room with some neighbours around it is still lukewarm. Denons are not typical thermal power plants, you know! Worry no more...
post #1953 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Hi slider33, to make to rest assured my 2310 has about 2.5" above the top as free space, about 0.5" on the right side, though the left side is totally open. See here:



So, when I put my hand on top of the 2310 after an hour (or two) of operation at about -25 to -30dB master volume level in a living room with some neighbours around it is still lukewarm. Denons are not typical thermal power plants, you know! Worry no more...

Thanks for the pic and the reassurance. I guess I won't know for sure until I try it myself, but Im pretty certain I won't have a problem, I just tend to worry about the unknown
post #1954 of 7166
Thread Starter 
Hi Curt,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtavs7 View Post

1. My Definitive Technology BP2000 tower speakers have built-in powered subs with line level preamp inputs. Can I use the Denon preamp outputs, which are designed to go to a recorder, for the subwoofer use? When I perform the Audyssey auto EQ, will it work with and equalize my front speaker subs even if they are connected through these recorder preamp outputs?

You cannot use the rec outputs as faux pre-outs, most importantly because they are (1) line level (no volume control!) and (2) not equalized by Audyssey.

With those DT's I believe you have two options:

1 - wire them normally with speaker wire and then run them "large"

2 - split the SUB OUT rca pre-out and run it to the subs directly, in which case the Denon will "think" they are part of the Subwoofer channel and EQ them separately from the rest of the speaker, which will then be set to "small" and the bass management between high end and powered sub will be done in the AVR.


Quote:


2. My second question concerns Audyssey dynamic EQ. What is the reference level below which it starts boosting the rear channels. Is it the 0 setting on the volume control? I have been listening mainly at a setting of -10 to -15 on the volume control. While I really like what it does, it is boosting the rear channels volume higher than I think they shoud be for best front-to-back balance. How does the receiver know what volume level setting is the reference, below which it starts boosting the surround channels, and how can I reset this reference level on the 2310?

All Dynamic EQ equipped receivers are calibrated so that "reference level" is at Volume = 0. This reference level corresponds to that used in movie theaters and mixing studios, so that film content is heard "as intended" by the mixer.

Dynamic EQ kicks in whenever the volume drops below 0.

With what source are you judging the "front-to-back balance"? If it's a movie on DVD / blu-ray, I suggest you leave it as is and give yourself some time to adjust to the "correct" tonal balance that MultEQ + Dynamic EQ is creating.

If it's TV and/or music, note that these sources are not always mixed to the same reference level (or in the case of much music, no reference at all). For these sources, you can utilize the "Reference Level Offset" parameter (found in AUDIO ADJUST under AUDYSSEY settings) to tone down the reference level and thus limit the aggressiveness of Dynamic EQ's boosting.

The offset is adjustable at -5/-10/-15dB increments. I recommend starting at -10dB for music and TV and tweak from there.
post #1955 of 7166
Thanks, batpig, for the quick response. I will just jumper my speaker's bass at the speaker level.

As to the surround balance issue, what had me confused was the Denon statement that it is reference to 85db. Obviously, a zero setting on the volume control can produce wildly different volume levels depending on the room size, speaker efficiency, etc. Anyway, now I know that the receiver references it internally to the 0 volume setting.

Dynamic EQ is really a great feature and I'm glad it came along before I upgraded my older Marantz receiver to the Denon. At least I stayed with the same company, just switched between their brands.
post #1956 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

No, you would not lose the Manual settings at all as that doesn't involve the Audyssey filtering process, although if you haven't run AUTO SETUP then you're not able to use Dyn Vol and Dyn EQ two of the best features of Audyssey. If you read p. 50 in your Owner's manual (mid page, right side) it tells you that if the speaker settings (read configuration) is changed AFTER running AUTO SETUP then "Run Audyssey" is displayed; however, you can simply Restore the original settings rather than running AUTO SETUP again. This process could be made much simpler with a Harmony remote that could be used to program the multiple steps required into a single button press.

LOL! Ok.... I've been reading that thing, but going at it rather slowly - I blame hardening of the arteries. I'm not quite up to speed on the functionality so far. And I have not run Auto Setup /Audyssey yet, thinking I would take it easy on the speakers and give them a break-in without it. I guess I better find some time to snuggle up with the Denon manual (and yes, unpack and discover the functionality of that Harmony remote I bought!).

Thanks, jdsmoothie and also batpig.
post #1957 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lij View Post

And I have not run Auto Setup /Audyssey yet, thinking I would take it easy on the speakers and give them a break-in without it.

No need to wait, do it now, and take advantage of the additional features it offers, not to mention even better speaker equalization. After reading through the Denon manual, also take a look at the Audyssey Setup Guide for even more info to assist you with running Audyssey. You'll also want to take a look at Batpig's sig for information on downloading the Denon remote codes to your Harmony remote. You'll be able to program in a series of steps to accomplish your Zone 2/7.1 swapping configuration with the Harmony remote.
post #1958 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtavs7 View Post

Obviously, a zero setting on the volume control can produce wildly different volume levels depending on the room size, speaker efficiency, etc. Anyway, now I know that the receiver references it internally to the 0 volume setting.

Just to be clear, once you have run auto setup, zero on your volume control should yield exactly the same SPL, in your room, at your first measurement position, as zero on my different Denon will give me in my room, at my 1st measurement position.

The 85 dB refers to the SPL per channel when fed a restricted pink noise tone at -20 dBFS - - it's a method used to set the reference level. For Dyanamic EQ and Dynamic volume to work as intended, the known reference level in your room is critical. Even if, like me, you never listen at reference, the system needs to know how far you are from reference to appropriately correct.
post #1959 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider33 View Post

Thanks for the pic and the reassurance. I guess I won't know for sure until I try it myself, but Im pretty certain I won't have a problem, I just tend to worry about the unknown

I'll be VERY surprised if you have a problem. The Denon's don't seem to run warm at all, and I don't have tons of clearance with mine, though the side and back are open.
post #1960 of 7166
Anybody have audio dropouts with HDMI and a Directv HD DVR?
post #1961 of 7166
you can get audio dropouts with any hdmi connection--I used to get them all the time when I had my cable box hooked directly to my tv. I'd have to pause and restart or change channels or something to get it back (or just wait long enough) I had some hiccups when I first hooked up the 2310 and replaced my hdmi cables with new ($7) cables and they went away, and I actually don't recall any of the audio drops since then, so bizarrely it does better going from my box to my 2310 and then to the tv then just from the box to the tv.

My advice would be, even if you haven't had problems with your cables with other equipment, try buying som enew inexpensive ones and see if the problem goes away.
post #1962 of 7166
Audio dropouts from D* is pretty common. Go to dbstalk.com and look under the D* forum and you'll find plenty of examples. My old receiver died a few months ago and I just got a 2310 hooked up last weekend. So for several months I was going straight from HR21 to TV and there were drop outs. In all cases, the drop out was just that - meaning it came back automatically within a couple of seconds. It has never been so frequent that it has been a big problem for me. Perhaps you can RBR (red button reset) your box.
post #1963 of 7166
I should clarify audio dropouts. I mean not coming back on unless I go to a different channel or forward through commercials, come back and no audio. Then pause it, push play and it comes back on. You are right, 1-2 sec dropouts are common but this is different.
post #1964 of 7166
I am interesting getting a blue ray player. Which model is the most compatible with the Denon 2310 and a Pioneer Elite 111? I am only interested in upconverting dvd and playing blue ray.
post #1965 of 7166
Everybody seems to love the new Oppo. I have a slightly older Sony (the 350) and it works just fine for me. Others may have more sophisticated knowledge and/or tastes.
post #1966 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmax2k1 View Post

I should clarify audio dropouts. I mean not coming back on unless I go to a different channel or forward through commercials, come back and no audio. Then pause it, push play and it comes back on. You are right, 1-2 sec dropouts are common but this is different.

I had an issue with my video going out (still had audio) from my HR21 (connected via HDMI through 2310 to TV). Two days ago I replaced the HDMI cable from the 2310 to TV and thus far (fingers crossed) I haven't had any issues. Perhaps you simply need a new cable. My cables are cheap - <$5 for 6ft cable.
post #1967 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

No need to wait, do it now, and take advantage of the additional features it offers, not to mention even better speaker equalization. After reading through the Denon manual, also take a look at the Audyssey Setup Guide for even more info to assist you with running Audyssey. You'll also want to take a look at Batpig's sig for information on downloading the Denon remote codes to your Harmony remote. You'll be able to program in a series of steps to accomplish your Zone 2/7.1 swapping configuration with the Harmony remote.

Yep... I've got work to do. Thank you. I had not paid any attention to the Audyssey thread. Time to get the nose to the grindstone.... or the ear to the....
post #1968 of 7166
If you read my previous posts in this thread you will know what Im talking about here. Basically BD players namely samsung and lg not working well with the 2310..

Well I never did hear back from denon...However I did manage to persuade a denon rep here to come to my house to take a look at the problem...He was shocked to see it for real.

He says he will get in touch and get a firmware update soon...Reason he said samsung and lg has problems cause the firmware upgrade they got causes the handshake issue. For those that chose not to download the latest updates for your blue ray will not have the problem..

For those that have updated their bd players like me instead of fast forwarding the chapters you go into the settings of the LG and turn off (prohibit) the setting for BD live..That fixes everything Ive tested it many times with differant movies this solution works...For samsung players IM told you should turn off anynet feature this I havent tested maybe someone could try that.

This solution works great and in the meantime this rep did pretty much guarantee me a firmware upgrade since he saw the problem first hand.
post #1969 of 7166
Thread Starter 
wow, I hope that works out!!! do you still have BOTH the Sammy and LG players?

good tip on turning off BD-Live / Anynet+ in the player. We can start distributing that as a potential solution for now!
post #1970 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by sargeant View Post

If you read my previous posts in this thread you will know what Im talking about here. Basically BD players namely samsung and lg not working well with the 2310..

It doesn't help your situation, but for the benefit of lurkers here I run my 2310 with a Samsung BDP-1500 player (it was a popular Blu-ray model in late 2008) and I've had no problems whatsoever. Ditto for the same player paired with a 989.
post #1971 of 7166
I am shifting around quite a lot, from PAL- to NTSC- and back to PAL-countries, so my equipment is mixed. So my current TV is NTSC, and I am living in a PAL-country (Singapore) using a Settop-box for TV.
(Just connecting the settop-box to the TV, does not allow HD and cuts off the bottom 15% of the picture)
Is the AVR2310 capable of PAL--> NTSC (and vice verse) conversion?
From the manual it seems that conversion is possible, and the 2310 can be set to NTSC or PAL-output.
Any experience?
Thank you!
post #1972 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by newriver99 View Post

I am interesting getting a blue ray player. Which model is the most compatible with the Denon 2310 and a Pioneer Elite 111? I am only interested in upconverting dvd and playing blue ray.

I haven't seen any problems with Sony's that I recall. For some reason they don't seem to get much love on the boards, but in my experience from the 350/550 on anyway they are solid performers which do the job with little drama, and there's something to be said for simply "playing well" with other devices. The 460 is taking heat now for shipping with a disclaimer saying netflix streaming or whatever will be available with an update in late 09, but they DID do the BD Live update as promised on 350's I believe it was, and it's the brands that rushed to bring this to market on their new models that are having all the problems. Better to get it right first imo.
post #1973 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

wow, I hope that works out!!! do you still have BOTH the Sammy and LG players?

good tip on turning off BD-Live / Anynet+ in the player. We can start distributing that as a potential solution for now!

A firmware will be out since I got the denon sales rep on it.
I only have the LG 390 we went back to a store tried with the samsung player when you turn off anynet feature the true hd sound came through loud and clear..

He even pulled out a new lg and samsung player out of the box that was not updated at all and they both worked well out of the box...As soon as we updated them both nothing worked....Basically when sammy and lg came out with a firmware you have to wait for denon to come out with theirs..

Personally I wouldnt update them bd players unless denon had one out and then do them both at the same time..

IN the meantime turn off anynet on samsung and prohibit bd on lg and it works well.
post #1974 of 7166
Just bought the 2310ci after much review and angst. What blu-ray player should I buy to go with it? Or, do I not need a blu-ray due to the upscaling? We don't own any; just standard dvd's anyway.
post #1975 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnspies View Post

Just bought the 2310ci after much review and angst. What blu-ray player should I buy to go with it? Or, do I not need a blu-ray due to the upscaling? We don't own any; just standard dvd's anyway.

Hi John,

After buying the 2310 I'm in the same shoes as you are, tearing myself apart on the issue "which player to buy?".

Still lookin' around on the Net to get good advise, but at the moment I'm nearly settling myself with the Denon DVD2500BT. Despite the model code it does handle Blu-Ray, yet, as a transport type it does not duplicate circuitry that is also available in the 2310 avr, so one would not need to pay for unneccesary stuff.

To all, please correct me if I proove to be wrong! Born to bare critiques!
post #1976 of 7166
I was ready to purchase a 2310 and though I would take a quick look here first. Glad I did. I have a samsung TV (PN63A650) and a blu-ray (BD-P2500), all with current updates. What issues could I have between them and the 2310? Also what is the current best price?
post #1977 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnspies View Post

Just bought the 2310ci after much review and angst. What blu-ray player should I buy to go with it? Or, do I not need a blu-ray due to the upscaling? We don't own any; just standard dvd's anyway.

If you're okay with DVD quality then there's no need to buy a Blu Ray player. Upscaling old DVDs to 1080p will provide you with a little better picture quality, no where close to true 1080p from a Blu-Ray mind you, but at least somewhat better than what you normally see now.
post #1978 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by scubie02 View Post

I'll be VERY surprised if you have a problem. The Denon's don't seem to run warm at all, and I don't have tons of clearance with mine, though the side and back are open.

I turned it on for a few hours last night to watch the hockey game, and it seems fine. It's mildly warm but that's about it, my old Onkyo used to get cooking hot to the point I could barely touch it for more than a couple seconds, this is childs play. I think I may install a fan in the wall behind it though to pull air out, as there is a closet behind it so it the fan wouldn't be visible.

I do have a couple more questions:

Are the power sources on the back (the two recepticals/outles/plugs whatever) switched on when the unit is powered on? I could run the fan into those to make it easy. Are they powered when the unit is in standy, or only when fully on?

Also, I noticed on the display in standby mode there are faint red lines... Is this a cosmetic thing or should the display be totally dark?
post #1979 of 7166
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Are the power sources on the back (the two recepticals/outles/plugs whatever) switched on when the unit is powered on? I could run the fan into those to make it easy. Are they powered when the unit is in standy, or only when fully on?

the outlets are switched off in standby mode but ONLY if HDMI Control is off. If HDMI Control is on the circuitry stays active even in standby and so do the outlets.

Quote:


Also, I noticed on the display in standby mode there are faint red lines... Is this a cosmetic thing or should the display be totally dark?

I noticed this too, I wouldn't worry about it. I think it's just some quirk of the way the LCD display is designed.
post #1980 of 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the outlets are switched off in standby mode but ONLY if HDMI Control is off. If HDMI Control is on the circuitry stays active even in standby and so do the outlets.



I noticed this too, I wouldn't worry about it. I think it's just some quirk of the way the LCD display is designed.

That's good, I can keep the HDMI off, I won't ever need to pass through the receiver when it isn't on, as I'm using a projector with obviously doesn't have its own speakers.

Thanks
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