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*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 2310CI / 890 Owner's Thread - Page 104

post #3091 of 7011
IT WORKED!!

Thanks to all of you who helped fix my screen size problem (Pyrophoric, poraxan, bruce73, batpig, jdsmoothie)! I'm so relieved as this has been driving me nuts for days.

Finally I found this configure page that I've been looking for. Now my screen looks perfect and matches exactly. I'm about to wire my basement for the PC and I was worried I was doing things wrong, so it almost screwed things up. Thank you so much.
post #3092 of 7011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoma44 View Post

IT WORKED!!

post #3093 of 7011
Here's my situation:

- I currently own a Denon AVR-2310CI

- It is ONE WEEK OLD

- This is my second unit to replace first unit which died with same symptoms (purchase new both times)

- Running 75' HDMI cable through the wall (exactly like this one: cgi.ebay.com/75ft---HDMI-Cable-to-Male-Full-HD-1080p-Gold-75-FT_W0QQitemZ130354642271QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20091226?IMSfp= TL091226208006r9027)

- On the other end of the HDMI cable is a Samsung 50" HD Plasma TV (model #PN50B660T2F)

- Connected to the Denon are the following: Time Warner HD cable box (motorola brand), standard DVD player, PS3 (which I CAN get sound from, but no video)

We were watching TV this afternoon...everything was okay. Then the video went out...audio was still playing. A few minutes later the audio failed as well. Since this happened I get a "no signal" message from my TV, and no matter what source I select from my receiver, nothing displays.

As mentioned before, this is the second AVR-2310CI we have had in the last 4months. The first one lasted 3 months before the same thing happened.

I reset the processor...not sure what else to do at this point. Has anyone else experienced this? It's a little frustrating when you pay $850 for a "Magnolia-quality receiver" (according to Best Buy) and it stops working while still technically brand new!

I don't know if the issue is with TV, HDMI cable, etc. Is it possible that my HDMI cable is shorting out the receiver??? Do I need some sort of upscaler because the cable is 75' long?

I'm going crazy trying to figure this out....PLEASE HELP!
post #3094 of 7011
Your first 2310 likely didn't die, and neither has this current one. HDMI is limited to lengths of only about 40' without using some kind of "repeater" or "extender." There are various kinds on the market, both powered and not powered. Give AVS sponsor Monoprice a call and see which one they would recommend for you, perhaps something like this.
post #3095 of 7011
I agree. That 75' long cable is probably the culprit. That kind of distance is stretching it. I had problems with a 50' cable once. I replaced it with a better cable and shortened the distance and the problem went away
post #3096 of 7011
Hi all,

I'm a proud new owner of the 2310CI and am loving it so far. I hooked everything up and ran the Audyssey setup and think it sounds great.

I am having one small issue (so far) - I'm not getting any sound from my Wii. I've connected it similar to Batpig's hypothetical scenario in the setup guide:

Wii -> Component to Comp-1 AKA 1(DVD)
Wii -> Composite to SAT/CBL

Then I assigned the input "V. Aux" to 1-RCA.

When I select the V. Aux source, I get the Wii screen, but no sound.

I'm sure I'm doing something wrong - I'm very new to all of this. What should I change or what am I doing wrong?

Thanks!
Ken
post #3097 of 7011
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcoakley View Post

Hi all,

I'm a proud new owner of the 2310CI and am loving it so far. I hooked everything up and ran the Audyssey setup and think it sounds great.

I am having one small issue (so far) - I'm not getting any sound from my Wii. I've connected it similar to Batpig's hypothetical scenario in the setup guide:

Wii -> Component to Comp-1 AKA 1(DVD)
Wii -> Composite to SAT/CBL

Then I assigned the input "V. Aux" to 1-RCA.

When I select the V. Aux source, I get the Wii screen, but no sound.

I'm sure I'm doing something wrong - I'm very new to all of this. What should I change or what am I doing wrong?

Thanks!
Ken

Connect Audio (Red & White) Composite to same name "DVD"

Edit: Your Video Connection is good but you assign the video to the wrong name, should be "DVD and not V.Aux.
post #3098 of 7011
Thread Starter 
but he also can't use V-AUX, since the analog inputs that correspond with V-AUX are on the FRONT of the unit!

kcoakley -- you should read again, more carefully

the main important point that you missed:

the RCA (red/white/yellow) inputs are NOT ASSIGNABLE

That means that the Wii audio will be tied to the name you pick for the red/white analog audio inputs, and you must assign the component video source to MATCH THE ANALOG AUDIO. So if you plug your audio into SAT/CBL, you MUST assign the video to SAT/CBL as well.

Where you diverged from the hypothetical in my setup guide was that you plugged the Wii into the SAT/CBL input but then you chose a different name to use for the input. The V-AUX name is really tied to the front auxiliary inputs so those analog audio inputs are stuck on the front of the unit.
post #3099 of 7011
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

but he also can't use V-AUX, since the analog inputs that correspond with V-AUX are on the FRONT of the unit!

That was it! Thanks to JChin and Batpig for responding!

I suspected that a reread of Batpig's setup guide would be helpful - but I was just too impatient.

Now on to programming my Harmony One...

Ken
post #3100 of 7011
Hi i know marantz and harman kardon are the warmest and have trebles soft and sweet: witch are softly in trebles between denon 2310 - 2809 and onkyo 707 ?

i heard 2310 is a bit hard on mid-trebles expecially activing audyssey dyn eq. Is right?
post #3101 of 7011
Hi guys!
I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of my 2310ci, which shipped yesterday from E Expo.

In preparation for it's delivery, I've been reading this thread (up to page 72 at the moment) and intend to also read batpig's guide and FAQ thoroughly.

I have two questions; if either of these have been answered in the course of this thread, or in batpig's information, I apologize in advance, I simply didn't notice.

Before I get to the question, allow me to list my current set up:
-Panasonic Viera 50" Plasma (TH-50PX60U)
-Motorola DCT 3416 I (Comcast HD DVR HDMI)
-Playstation 3 (60gb "fat") (I use this for games, BD, and DVD)
-XBOX 360 (HDMI)
-I was using an 11-12 year-old Sony STR-DE925 as my AVR, until it kicked the bucket in August. Since then, I've been using the TV speakers for everything.

1. The majority of my HDMI cables were purchased when I bought my Panasonic Viera back in spring 2006. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe this model can take advantage of the HDMI 1.3a profile. I have one 1.3a cable that I use for my PS3; will I need any more than that? I guess my line of reasoning is, if I'm doing all my movie watching and CD music listening through the PS3, that is the only component that will be doing 1.3a-required tasks. Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to picking some 1.3a's up at Monoprice; they're good quality, and dirt-cheap. I just don't want to buy any more if it's not necessary. If the XBOX and my cable box take advantage of 1.3a, then I guess it would be a no-brainer to order a few more.

2. Has anyone had any HDCP / handshake issues with the DCT 3416i and the 2310? If there's one thing I've learned in this thread, it's that if there's some kind of problem, it's going to be an issue between the cable box and the AVR.

Thanks in advance for your replies!
post #3102 of 7011
1. Not really sure what you're asking here, although Denon AVRs have had HDMI 1.3a inputs for at least a couple of years now.

2. There is a nice feature that allows you to search keywords in a thread. You won't see it while lurking, but when you are logged in, the "Search This Thread" button shows up just under the page numbers in the upper right portion of this web page. Using the key words "DCT 3416i" in this thread nothing actually comes up. However, you could also try the same thing in the other Denon AVR threads as well and see if any posts come up. In general though, Motorola boxes are the worst offenders.
post #3103 of 7011
Going back to a question I already asked but need further clarification on ...

What crossover freq for all my speakers? I am bringing this up again because Audyssey wants to set this to 60Hz across the board. I understand I can change this setting manually and not loose Audyssey functionality, but should I?

STS-01: 60Hz - 18kHz ± 3dB
SCS-01: 68Hz - 20kHz ± 3dB

To me, it seems like the fronts should be at 60 and the backs at 80. Is there any physical harm or problem to look for by setting them all to 60 though?

Edit: I am bringing this up again because, unless I misunderstood, it seemed from previous statements that 80Hz was preferred regardless of Audyssey , yet your guide states that the Audyssey settings should be used.

From your guide:

Quote:


The general default is to set your crossover frequency to 80Hz all around. However, if you have tiny satellite speakers, you may need to set it higher. Check the specifications for your speaker and choose a crossover point above the "minus 3 dB point" quoted in the specs. A good rule of thumb is to set towers to 60 or 80Hz, medium or large bookshelves to 80Hz, small bookshelves to 100Hz, and tiny satellites to 120Hz or 150Hz. However, you may have to experiment as everyone's setup is different. The best idea, however, is to let Audyssey figure it out for you.

This leads into my next question about double bass with LFE+Main. Your guide seems to stick towards using LFE only if you have a subwoofer, is this just because of the quality of the bass. Does bass become distorted when combining from two sources that aren't identical?

Audyssey determined my speaker distance very accurately accept for the subwoofer. Oddly, it determined that the subwoofer about 3 feet further than it actually is but it also decreased the db by 7.5. I would have assumed an increase in db if it's registering it further than it actually is.

How do you know an acceptable volume limit? When watching a TV show such as Heroes or House, it seems that bringing the volume to -10db is loud enough. When watching a movie such as Iron Man, -5 to +5db is loud enough. Depending on the system, when playing a game we can go between a range of -30 and -15db and it's somewhat loud. Do these volumes seem normal to others? And yes, I am going to level volumes out eventually but I am more so wondering the suggested limits of the volume are.

E.G. Generally speaking, never a good idea to go past +5db or so. I assume this would be conditional as calibration and general tweaking can take individual speaker levels all over the place.

Edit: Also, I am still trying to find a good position for my subwoofer. Since, for the most part, bass from the subwoofer isnt directional, does it matter whether I face it toward the primary listening spot? In my case, it creates more walking room by having it in the back left corner of my room (about 1 foot away from each wall) but facing the right wall instead of the seating area.
post #3104 of 7011
Thread Starter 
OK, taking these one-by-one

Quote:


What crossover freq for all my speakers?

I would recommend 80Hz across the board there, but you should simply experiment with 60 vs 80 and see which sounds better to you. There are several important advantages to redirecting more bass to the subwoofer channel, most importantly (1) shifting a larger portion of the troublesome low freq's to the higher resolution MultEQ filters in the SW channel and (2) freeing up headroom in the AVR's amp section, as the most energy-greedy low freq's are handled by the dedicated amp in the subwoofer.

Quote:


To me, it seems like the fronts should be at 60 and the backs at 80. Is there any physical harm or problem to look for by setting them all to 60 though?

no, not at all, as Audyssey has measured that your speakers can play down to 60Hz in your room.

Quote:


This leads into my next question about double bass with LFE+Main. Your guide seems to stick towards using LFE only if you have a subwoofer, is this just because of the quality of the bass. Does bass become distorted when combining from two sources that aren't identical?

Double bass is a useless setting, it only exists because of consumers who felt insecure about setting their big tower speakers to "small" and so they were given an option that would allow them to set their speakers as "large" and yet still have some bass redirection to the subwoofer.

The problem is that your main speakers simply cannot reproduce the low bass frequencies as effectively as a subwoofer. And, when you engage double bass, you will no longer be getting "flat" bass as the multiple bass sources will overlap... but then the speakers will run out of steam around 60Hz, so you will have some "overlap zone" but others which do not overlap and you will get an unnatural hump in that overlap region.

Multiple bass sources are actually a good thing, having two or three subwoofers is a proven way to diminish room acoustic problems. But they should be EQ'd together as one dedicated SW channel, that is not the same thing as pushing your tower speakers with a "double bass" setting to ranges they can't actually reproduce.

Quote:


Audyssey determined my speaker distance very accurately accept for the subwoofer.

sub distance is covered in the FAQ this is very common and is because of the delay caused by the internal circuitry in the subwoofer. the measurement is not actually distance, it is just a proxy for "delay". the point is to make sure the TIMING of the various speakers is accurate.

Quote:


Oddly, it determined that the subwoofer about 3 feet further than it actually is but it also decreased the db by 7.5. I would have assumed an increase in db if it's registering it further than it actually is.

one has absolutely nothing to do with the other -- the channel volume will be set at the point required to make that speaker play at the same volume as the others (as measured at the 1st microphone position).

Quote:


How do you know an acceptable volume limit?

as long as you aren't going far past zero you are pretty much safe. The receiver will let you know if you go too far by shutting itself down into protect mode. But, in general, as long as your ears aren't bleeding you are probably not at any risk Remember that the toughest freq's are handled by the sub's amp if all speakers are set to small.

different sources will have different volumes, so the range you describe is pretty normal. Movie sources are the only standardized volumes, a volume of -30 to -10 is pretty normal for home veiwing, but nothing wrong with pushing it closer to 0 if you really want to feel the action!
post #3105 of 7011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

1. Not really sure what you're asking here, although Denon AVRs have had HDMI 1.3a inputs for at least a couple of years now.

Thanks for the reply, jdsmoothie. Yeah, I just reread my question, and it is not very well worded. Let's see if I can clean it up a bit. I understand that there will be a benefit to having a 1.3a cable connecting the PS3 and the 2310, due to the audio codecs and increased bandwidth, but will a 1.3a cable improve the connection of any of my other components (STB, XBOX, pre-1.3a Panny plasma) to the 2310? It seems to me that the features that the HDMI 1.3a profile introduced wouldn't do anything for a XBOX, cable box, and a 2006 Plasma that the older HDMI cable can do.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

2. There is a nice feature that allows you to search keywords in a thread. You won't see it while lurking, but when you are logged in, the "Search This Thread" button shows up just under the page numbers in the upper right portion of this web page. Using the key words "DCT 3416i" in this thread nothing actually comes up. However, you could also try the same thing in the other Denon AVR threads as well and see if any posts come up. In general though, Motorola boxes are the worst offenders.

I may have jumped the gun with this question. I'm familiar with the "Search this Thread" function, and also typed in "DCT 3416i" earlier today. I searched again, using only "3416", and found a number of posts. I should have worked harder before pestering you guys with that one, sorry!
post #3106 of 7011
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

OK, taking these one-by-one

Thanks, once again, for your help!
post #3107 of 7011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrotrain View Post

Thanks for the reply, jdsmoothie. Yeah, I just reread my question, and it is not very well worded. Let's see if I can clean it up a bit. I understand that there will be a benefit to having a 1.3a cable connecting the PS3 and the 2310, due to the audio codecs and increased bandwidth, but will a 1.3a cable improve the connection of any of my other components (STB, XBOX, pre-1.3a Panny plasma) to the 2310? It seems to me that the features that the HDMI 1.3a profile introduced wouldn't do anything for a XBOX, cable box, and a 2006 Plasma that the older HDMI cable can do.

Okay, gotcha now. Keep in mind that what you are quoting are specs for the HDMI jack rather than the cable itself which is why I said the 2310 HDMI jacks are 1.3a compliant. Although a cable may say it's 1.1 or 1.3, they're both the same cable, it's the jack that that makes the difference. So the answer to your question is, yes, keep the cables you have now as it doesn't matter if you connect them to the PS3 or any other component for that matter. The real physical difference will come with the new 1.4 cables.

Also, as you learned it's a good idea when using the Search This Thread feature to use a variety of key words to determine if there are any posts in the thread that relate to your topic of interest.
post #3108 of 7011
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I guess Monoprice isn't getting any more money from me this week!

I do have a question out of curiousity, based on something you wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Although a cable may say it's 1.1 or 1.3, they're both the same cable, it's the jack that that makes the difference. So the answer to your question is, yes, keep the cables you have now as it doesn't matter if you connect them to the PS3 or any other component for that matter. The real physical difference will come with the new 1.4 cables.

When you see the "1.3a certified" description for HDMI cables on Monoprice, at a B&M, etc, is that just simply a marketing / sales thing? If so, it's somewhat misleading, as it would have you believe there is something physically different about the cable itself to handle 1.3a compliance.
post #3109 of 7011
AFAIK, they're all the same physical cable (again the new 1.4 cables will be different) which is why the $100 Monster cables are no better than the $5 monoprice cables.
post #3110 of 7011
I agree with JD. Sometimes the cheaper cable's connector is for lack of better words "sloppy". I had one where any slight movement of cable would cause a disconnect. I bought a pack of 3 6ft cables from Fry's for 9$ and they perform perfectly. There's several articles on internet about the marketing of these cables (1.2 vs 1.3) and so on. It's hype..... Buy from Monoprice, you can't go wrong.
post #3111 of 7011
Thanks for your input. I'm fighting the urge to order four of the colored HDMI cables from Monoprice just to have a clean reset, and to help keep the jungle of cables better organized.

Any ideas to when we can expect 1.4 spec from Monoprice?
post #3112 of 7011
I would imagine any day now as they're already on the market through other vendors. Not to mention you've got HDMI 1.4 TV's and BD's coming out soon as well so ya gotta have the cables for them!
post #3113 of 7011
[quote=jdsmoothie;17955631]Your first 2310 likely didn't die, and neither has this current one. HDMI is limited to lengths of only about 40' without using some kind of "repeater" or "extender." There are various kinds on the market, both powered and not powered. Give AVS sponsor Monoprice a call and see which one they would recommend for you, perhaps something like http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041907&p_id=2849&seq=1&format=2" this

Thanks for the tip Jdsmoothie! I just ordered what you recommended...read the reviews and it seems like it solved the problem for others experiencing the same issue. Crossing fingers that it's what I need! Otherwise, the walls are coming apart and a new wire will get fished through :-(
post #3114 of 7011
I got a really good deal on a new 1910 (368.00) and while in my local Magnolia tonight I see they have an open-box 2310 for $649.00. Receiver is being used in a 2.1 setup in our exercise room. Speakers are Mirage OS3-SATs with a Martin Logan 10" Dynamo. Basically music only system. I cant decide if I should move up to the 2310...or would I gain nothing with the speakers I'm using.
post #3115 of 7011
I am not sure if I am posting it correctly. I cannot see a new thread option. I am just continuing.

I have a new Denon 2310CI AVR, Sony TV, and Comcast DCX3400 DVR. I have connected the DCX3400 to the AVR with HDMI Cable (6ft) and AVR to the Sony TV again with HDMI cable (6 ft). There is no video and audio on TV. The TV monitor turns to blank green. I get a message like HDCR protocol not recognized. Use component cable connection.

Here are some other observations:
(a) When I turn off the cable box (DVR) and turn it on, then the audio comes back from the speakers connected to the AVR.
(b) I also have connection from DVD (BD) to AVR to TV with HDMI cables. The DVD works fine (both video and audio).
(c) If I connect the cable box to TV directly, it works fine.

I am quite sure the input and output connections are done properly. The HDMI cables are fine. (Tried variuos other ways to check that they are fine).

Is this a commont experience? What should I do to fix this problem? Are there some other cable boxes not having this problem? or, is the problem with the AVR?
Thanks.
post #3116 of 7011
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank4747 View Post

I'm about to pull the trigger on some monitor audio rs8's or PSB T6's...just wondering what speakers sound the best on this receiver?

Frank4747- First off aren't those MA RX8's beautiful speakers! Second I dont think you can run them with a Denon 2310ci. I listened to some this last week and loved them but they are 4 ohms speakers and the 2310 is rated only to 6 ohms. I'm not smart on this issue by any means as you can tell from earlier posts but it appears you can't fully drive those speakers. On a side note you might look at the RX6's (6 Ohms) and then make up for the lost woofer with the Sub. The RX6's are very similar minus the whole extra woofer but I have read many people actually like the RX6 batter. Please post back and let me know what you get regardless as I am very interested.
post #3117 of 7011
Hrm, anyone else notice mouse lag or just general lag when running a PC through the 2310?

I have my gaming rig hooked up to my TV, always have, and notice a huge amount of mouse delay/lag. Going back and forth between connecting straight to my TV and through the AVR I am 100% sure of it.

The question is, does this happen to anyone else and if so is there a way to solve the problem?

I have tried turning off all upscaling and the PC is outputting 1920x1080p default. Just to make sure it was the AVR, I used the same HDMI input on the TV for direct testing and through the AVR.

I could just leave the PC connected via HDMI to HDMI 2 on the TV (which is its dedicated dvi/hdmi connection) and the AVR on HDMI 1 then program my harmony accordingly. I just wanted to see if this problem was solvable though.

Edit: Never mind...

Though not ideal, turning off video conversion completely solves the problem.
post #3118 of 7011
Quote:
Originally Posted by fguder View Post

I am not sure if I am posting it correctly. I cannot see a new thread option. I am just continuing.

I have a new Denon 2310CI AVR, Sony TV, and Comcast DCX3400 DVR. I have connected the DCX3400 to the AVR with HDMI Cable (6ft) and AVR to the Sony TV again with HDMI cable (6 ft). There is no video and audio on TV. The TV monitor turns to blank green. I get a message like HDCR protocol not recognized. Use component cable connection.

Here are some other observations:
(a) When I turn off the cable box (DVR) and turn it on, then the audio comes back from the speakers connected to the AVR.
(b) I also have connection from DVD (BD) to AVR to TV with HDMI cables. The DVD works fine (both video and audio).
(c) If I connect the cable box to TV directly, it works fine.

I am quite sure the input and output connections are done properly. The HDMI cables are fine. (Tried variuos other ways to check that they are fine).

Is this a commont experience? What should I do to fix this problem? Are there some other cable boxes not having this problem? or, is the problem with the AVR?
Thanks.

Welcome fguder, what you are experiencing is an HDMI handshake problem which is common between cable/sat boxes and AVRs in general. You can try some of these steps posted by jdsmoothie and see if it solve your issue.

1. While all HDMI devices are on, disconnect HDMI cable from TV
2. Turn off power to all devices (not in standby)
3. Disconnect all HDMI feeds at both ends [NOTE where they go back]
4. Wait 2 minutes
5. Reconnect all HDMI cables
6. Apply power to TV, then AVR, then HDMI devices

If the above doesn't work, you can run HDMI direct to Tv with Optical to AVR with no lose in either video or audio quality.
post #3119 of 7011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Welcome fguder, what you are experiencing is an HDMI handshake problem which is common between cable/sat boxes and AVRs in general. You can try some of these steps posted by jdsmoothie and see if it solve your issue.

1. While all HDMI devices are on, disconnect HDMI cable from TV
2. Turn off power to all devices (not in standby)
3. Disconnect all HDMI feeds at both ends [NOTE where they go back]
4. Wait 2 minutes
5. Reconnect all HDMI cables
6. Apply power to TV, then AVR, then HDMI devices

If the above doesn't work, you can run HDMI direct to Tv with Optical to AVR with no lose in either video or audio quality.

Thanks. If I run HDMI direct to TV with Optical to AVR, will there be a delay between the audio and the video (syncronization problem)? In addition, the audio will now be coming both from TV and the speakers connected to AVR. I guess the solution would be to reduce the audio volume from TV. Is that right?
post #3120 of 7011
Quote:
Originally Posted by trolly View Post

I got a really good deal on a new 1910 (368.00) and while in my local Magnolia tonight I see they have an open-box 2310 for $649.00. Receiver is being used in a 2.1 setup in our exercise room. Speakers are Mirage OS3-SATs with a Martin Logan 10" Dynamo. Basically music only system. I cant decide if I should move up to the 2310...or would I gain nothing with the speakers I'm using.

As both models have the same basic components and the 15W difference in power being moot, the only reason to upgrade to the 2310 is if it offers some feature you want that the 1910 does not (ie. nice GUI). Put the money you save into upgrading or adding speakers down the road.
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