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*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 2310CI / 890 Owner's Thread - Page 123

post #3661 of 7033
2/26/10 at 2:04pm
Thread Starter 
well, you can do what you feel is best. we keep trying to tell you that there no "right" solution, you have to set it up to meet your needs. but, yes, you generally have it correct:

1 - to use the TV scaler, let the source send NATIVE output and turn i/p scaler on the Denon OFF
2 - to use the DVR scaler, set the DVR to 1080i output and turn i/p scaler on the Denon OFF (but note that the TV will still be involved as it has to do a 1080i > 1080p deinterlace)
3 - to use the Denon scaler, let the source send NATIVE and set Denon to AUTO (or 1080p).

you are still confused about several things:

you don't "set the TV" to anything! The TV can ONLY display its NATIVE RESOLUTION. Always. I assume you have a 1080p display? Then the ONLY thing it can display is EXACTLY 1920x1080 pixels. So, regardless of what you give it, the TV has to display at 1080p. So, the TV will always be doing some scaling unless you feed it a 1080p signal.

So, the question then becomes how you set up your source devices -- do you want them to scale to 1080p first (so the TV doesn't do anything) or do you want them to pass the resolution through (so the TV does all the processing). So, if you want the Denon to scale to 1080p before it ever gets to the TV, set the scaler on the Denon and just input the native resolution from your sources. If you want the TV do the scaling, turn the scaler off on the Denon and let everything pass through.
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post #3662 of 7033
2/26/10 at 2:05pm
Which question guys, is this the best upconverting AVR among its range?
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post #3663 of 7033
2/26/10 at 2:08pm
Thread Starter 
yes, the 2310/890 has the best video processing in its price range.

the question you need to ask yourself first though is whether you NEED this feature, depending on your TV and your setup you may not actually benefit from the video processing in the AVR. Read here for more info:
http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#video
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post #3664 of 7033
2/26/10 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

yes, the 2310/890 has the best video processing in its price range.

the question you need to ask yourself first though is whether you NEED this feature, depending on your TV and your setup you may not actually benefit from the video processing in the AVR. Read here for more info:
http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#video

Thanks,

Well my main reason to look for the AVR is just to upconvert some SD channels. I hate SD quality now that im used to HD programming.

That said, is this AVR the one to get?
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post #3665 of 7033
2/26/10 at 2:14pm
Thread Starter 
don't expect miracles with SD programming, "crap in crap out". Even with good video processing it's not going to look anywhere close to HD. That isn't really a great reason to buy an AVR.
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post #3666 of 7033
2/26/10 at 2:14pm
well, you can do what you feel is best. we keep trying to tell you that there no "right" solution, you have to set it up to meet your needs. but, yes, you generally have it correct:

1 - to use the TV scaler, let the source send NATIVE output and turn i/p scaler on the Denon OFF
2 - to use the DVR scaler, set the DVR to 1080i output and turn i/p scaler on the Denon OFF (but note that the TV will still be involved as it has to do a 1080i > 1080p deinterlace)
3 - to use the Denon scaler, let the source send NATIVE and set Denon to AUTO (or 1080p).

you are still confused about several things:

you don't "set the TV" to anything! The TV can ONLY display its NATIVE RESOLUTION. Always. I assume you have a 1080p display? Then the ONLY thing it can display is EXACTLY 1920x1080 pixels. So, regardless of what you give it, the TV has to display at 1080p. So, the TV will always be doing some scaling unless you feed it a 1080p signal.

So, the question then becomes how you set up your source devices -- do you want them to scale to 1080p first (so the TV doesn't do anything) or do you want them to pass the resolution through (so the TV does all the processing). So, if you want the Denon to scale to 1080p before it ever gets to the TV, set the scaler on the Denon and just input the native resolution from your sources. If you want the TV do the scaling, turn the scaler off on the Denon and let everything pass through.
__________________

Thank you very much for the answers and great info. I understand there is no "right" solution, but I want to be able to understand how to try the different options to see which looks best. I do appreciate it.
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post #3667 of 7033
2/26/10 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

don't expect miracles with SD programming, "crap in crap out". Even with good video processing it's not going to look anywhere close to HD. That isn't really a great reason to buy an AVR.

Whats the "great reason" to buy a AVR then? I mean, everyone knows AVR is to combine all input sources and power up speakers (and all funcs that support those). But part of the cost of such an AVR like this one lies on the upscaling func. I remember reading the CNET review about Denon (not sure which series) and they conclude the Denon has advantage of upconversion SD signals.

Thats y i asked.
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post #3668 of 7033
2/26/10 at 2:22pm
Oh yeah, by the way, lets put it this way:

Issue=Need to watch some SD channels (from cable provider) in HD quality.

Solution=? (since AVR upconverting is "not really a great reason")???
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post #3669 of 7033
2/26/10 at 2:34pm
Let's put it this way ...

Current AVRs in this price range will never come close to upscaling SD video to HD quality (in fact at best they'll do nominally better then either your cable/sat box can do or your HDTV can do). You should buy an AVR for it's "audio" ability, and NOT for it's upscaling ability. For quality upscaling ability by a dedicated video processor like the DVDO Edge. In fact if video quality is really a high priority for you, consider the Denon 1610/590 + DVD Edge.
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post #3670 of 7033
2/26/10 at 2:39pm
Thread Starter 
if video is the priority, buy a VIDEO PROCESSOR. a receiver's primary goal is AUDIO.

SD channels will NEVER EVER look even close to HD.
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post #3671 of 7033
2/26/10 at 2:51pm
I dont disagree that the upscaling capability can only do so much. My original question was compared to other AVR's in the price range, Denon 890 seems to be the best upconverting AVR.

Again everyone knows that typically a "receiver" is known to process audio signals. What the "edge" can do is what's more. Because for instance, i think most people would say the Onkyo 807 would be superior to this Denon in terms of audio processing/output.
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post #3672 of 7033
2/26/10 at 3:01pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


My original question was compared to other AVR's in the price range, Denon 890 seems to be the best upconverting AVR.

and I answered that in the affirmative
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post #3673 of 7033
2/26/10 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssbn733mt View Post

My receiver has stop passing thru my HD receiver signal. All is connected with HDMI and has worked flawlessly for several months. Yesterday I watch a Blu ray and when I hit watch tv (Harmony One), the switching took place but my signal continually is lost (cutting in/out every few seconds). Now I must watch with surround sound on, which is fine until my kids put on spongebob (I love that sponge but I can only hear the theme song so many times before I short out). PS3, 360, Wii, all work fine. Only the cable box passthru is affected. Any ideas as to what is happening before I go through the setup again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Check to make sure that the HDMI-CEC setting in the TV didn't get turned ON. Also try disconnecting and reconnecting the cable box HDMI cable while both components on ON. Another work around of course is to bypass the AVR with HDMI straight to the TV and only optical to the AVR.

Thanks but that didn't work either. The issue with another HDMI is that my wires are all run through the walls and those cables are 25' so I prefer not to do that again. When I change the SAT/CBL input from 1 to 5, I get video/sound but it's the DVI alert that HDTV doesn't support HDCP so unsure why that is popping up when switching the input. If I can clear that, then I can use input 5. Any more ideas would be appreciated.
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post #3674 of 7033
2/26/10 at 3:28pm
Give each of the other HDMI jacks a try as well. Another option would be connecting a component and optical cable from the cable box to the AVR. Yet another option might be adding an HDMI extender to strengthen the signal strength (as 25' sometimes starts to push the limit of an HDMI signal w/o an extender).
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post #3675 of 7033
2/26/10 at 3:29pm
LFE or LFE+Main? Not sure I understand the difference here.
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post #3676 of 7033
2/26/10 at 3:34pm
LFE = only LFE signal sent to the sub
LFE + Main = LFE signal + low frequencies from main speakers below their crossover pts when set to LARGE get sent to the sub (aka "double bass")

Although when the speakers are ALL set to SMALL (as is suggested), this setting doesn't matter as all lower frequencies for all speakers are being sent to the sub regardless of whether it's set to LFE or LFE+Main.
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post #3677 of 7033
2/26/10 at 3:37pm
Thread Starter 
basically, the LFE+MAIN setting is the "double bass" setting when you have any speakers set to LARGE, allowing the subwoofer to play bass from those full range speakers.

as JD notes, it is irrelevant for speakers set to SMALL (their bass is already being redirected to the sub).
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post #3678 of 7033
2/26/10 at 3:52pm
I'm surprised how low the Auto setup sets my speaker levels. Seems like I have to get the volume up around 0 to get it very loud.

FL -6
C -4.5
FR -4.5
SUB -9
SR -6
SL -9
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post #3679 of 7033
2/26/10 at 3:55pm
Thread Starter 
that is totally normal, especially if you have efficient speakers and/or a small room. Audyssey MultEQ calibrates your volume dial so that "0" corresponds precisely to film reference (they will put out precisely 75dB with the internal test tones). If you had a huge room and/or really inefficient speakers, then you might end up with values that are all positive.

It's not like the old days where cranking the receiver to 1/3-way on the volume dial was BLASTING, it's a finely tuned digital volume system so that you (and Dynamic EQ) know precisely how far off "reference" you are.

So, "0" is the baseline, and then you attenuate by a specific value below that. Most people listen between -30 and -10 depending on the content. If you like to crank it up nothing wrong with going up to near 0 or even a bit higher.
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post #3680 of 7033
2/26/10 at 4:04pm
Thanks for the help guys! That makes a lot more sense when you say 0 volume level is film referecence or baseline at 75db. I was just worried that hovering between -10 and 0 was too high and the Audyssey might have calculated off. The only time I'd run this high would be on good movies such as when playing a DB.

My speakers are:
Fronts: Polk Tsi300
Center: Polk CS20
Sub: DSW 400 Pro
Centers are some small sats that do the job, but will replace when I decide what I want.

So far I'm really liking this receiver a lot over the Onkyo 674 that I had. Just trying to figure everything out.
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post #3681 of 7033
2/26/10 at 4:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


That makes a lot more sense when you say 0 volume level is film referecence or baseline at 75db.

just to be clear, the "75dB" thing is only with the internal test tones (which are called -30dBfs tones, 30 decibels below FULL SCALE). "Full scale" is defined as 105dB per channel max for peaks, and the test tones are set 30dB below this for calibration (because 105dB is LOUD!!!).

On a typical movie, at "reference" volume, the average level will be around 80-85dB with 20dB of "headroom" for peaks up to 105dB. That is pretty loud... in most home environments, playing at -10dB (70-75dB average levels) will be a pretty "big" movie experience.
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post #3682 of 7033
2/26/10 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

and I answered that in the affirmative

and i thanked u warmly!
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post #3683 of 7033
2/26/10 at 4:14pm
Thread Starter 
I feel the love hugs all around!
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post #3684 of 7033
2/26/10 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I feel the love hugs all around!

now u'd feel more love if u told me where to get the 890 deal ? lolz
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post #3685 of 7033
2/26/10 at 7:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

if video is the priority, buy a VIDEO PROCESSOR. a receiver's primary goal is AUDIO.

SD channels will NEVER EVER look even close to HD.

Will it look even close to upconverted DVD? Or even just plain DVD? From what I understand, SD=480i and DVD=480p.

If so, then for me it is worth the upgrade (for video) from my Onkyo 705, which is feeding my Pioneer 6010.

Unless I can find a DVDO (or similar video processor in the same $800 range), it seems that it would be worth it, because SD looks like **** (Thanks for all the HD programming Comcast, NOT!).

And if anyone knows the answer, would the ABT chip in the receiver do as good a job with DVD upconversion as the same chip in a bluray player, say the Oppo?

DVD (in DVD player) -> Receiver -> TV
= DVD (in OPPO) ->TV
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post #3686 of 7033
2/26/10 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by castdude View Post

And if anyone knows the answer, would the ABT chip in the receiver do as good a job with DVD upconversion as the same chip in a bluray player, say the Oppo?

This was discussed earlier this week here.
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post #3687 of 7033
2/26/10 at 9:12pm
Contrary to popular belief, DVD=480i
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post #3688 of 7033
2/26/10 at 11:12pm
Question:
I have my Comcast dvr going to my hdtv via hdmi, then from the TV to the 2310 via optical. For some reason I am only getting stereo sound. PLII Cinema to be exact. Even on a broadcast thats streaming 5.1. I cannot figure out what setting is causing this.
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post #3689 of 7033
2/27/10 at 12:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_abbot View Post

Question:
I have my Comcast dvr going to my hdtv via hdmi, then from the TV to the 2310 via optical. For some reason I am only getting stereo sound. PLII Cinema to be exact. Even on a broadcast thats streaming 5.1. I cannot figure out what setting is causing this.

Most Tv Optical Out produce 5.1 when the signal is decoded from the built-in internal tuner. TV's can only support 2Ch stereo of audio over HDMI.
So connect optical cable from Comcast dvr to 2310.
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post #3690 of 7033
2/27/10 at 6:36am
i heard that denon 2310 has very heavy midhighs freq in order of another brands like onkyo pioneer nad marantz ecc
is right?
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › *OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 2310CI / 890 Owner's Thread