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*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 2310CI / 890 Owner's Thread - Page 125

post #3721 of 7011
2/28/10 at 4:16pm
I wasn't clear apparently. You asked for a solution to use your wireless headphones, which is what I provided. The use of the optical switch would be "in addition" to your regular HDMI cable connections for those same sources.

An alternative would be to connect analog cables from all sources to the AVR directly and then make an analog wireless transmitter connection to the VCR Out jack.
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post #3722 of 7011
2/28/10 at 4:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

I wasn't clear apparently. You asked for a solution to use your wireless headphones, which is what I provided. The use of the optical switch would be "in addition" to your regular HDMI cable connections for those same sources.

An alternative would be to connect analog cables from all sources to the AVR directly and then make an analog wireless transmitter connection to the VCR Out jack.

jd, would Zone 2 OUT work the same with analog cables from all sources?
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post #3723 of 7011
2/28/10 at 4:33pm
It would indeed.
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post #3724 of 7011
2/28/10 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

It would indeed.

So if ngordon can manage to get the all sources connected with analog cables (and using HDMI connection also if the equipment allows it). Then this may work when connecting GE99004 output to RCA CD Input and Zone 2 OUT to GE99004.
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post #3725 of 7011
2/28/10 at 7:19pm
Quick question! Just bought the 2310 and Panasonic 58 inch V10 plasma. Unfortunately it won't pass the HDMI signal (I checked and it is version 52!) and I understand that I have to upgrade the software. But the other issue I have is that when I have the Panasonic on, the 2310 won't accept any remote commands. As soon as I turn the TV off, it works fine. I have NO HDMI inputs into the 2310 because of the CEC issue but was wondering if there was any workaround for this problem. THANKS!
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post #3726 of 7011
3/1/10 at 11:23am
Hi somebody can tell me what are the firmware list and what is the last firmware versione released out for the 2310?

thanks
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post #3727 of 7011
3/1/10 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

exactly. this is why the advent of the "progressive scan" DVD player was such a big deal, and why the 480i deinterlacing is the critical step of any DVD "upscaling".

even though film is progressive (24 fps) it is stored on disc as telecined 480i/60 (since when DVD standard was developed there were no progressive displays). Being able to properly reconstruct those progressive frames is the most important step in upscaling. Properly done, upscaled SD DVD can look really outstanding on an HDTV (unlike SD cable channels which are garbage analog feeds at heart).

This is a great article if people want to understand more about this:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...e-10-2000.html

Excellent article,thanks for the link!
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post #3728 of 7011
3/1/10 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

exactly. this is why the advent of the "progressive scan" DVD player was such a big deal, and why the 480i deinterlacing is the critical step of any DVD "upscaling".

even though film is progressive (24 fps) it is stored on disc as telecined 480i/60 (since when DVD standard was developed there were no progressive displays). Being able to properly reconstruct those progressive frames is the most important step in upscaling. Properly done, upscaled SD DVD can look really outstanding on an HDTV (unlike SD cable channels which are garbage analog feeds at heart).

This is a great article if people want to understand more about this:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...e-10-2000.html

So a Denon receivers scaling abilities are useless on cable T.V.,or just on SD channels?Can it enhance HD channels?
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post #3729 of 7011
3/1/10 at 11:41am
Thread Starter 
well, neither

there are certainly situations where the video processing could be useful, it's more about tempering expectations for people who think buying an AVR will make their standard-def cable channels look like "near HD" quality.

some examples of what the VP could do:

- deinterlace 1080i cable channels to 1080p
- scale 720p cable channels to 1080p
- deinterlace and scale 480i channels to 1080p
- deinterlace and scale 480i DVD content to 1080p

and so forth....

the critical question is does it do this better than your TV? and, even if it is (many TV's do not to a proper 1080i deinterlace) can you actually see the difference with real-world content?

so it's not that it is "useless", just that (1) the actual benefit may or may not be visible and (2) you will see the best results only if you can feed the VP the native resolution of the input signal so it has the "raw material" to work with. For example, if the cable box or DVD player cannot output 480i over HDMI, then the most difficult step (doing a proper deinterlacing of 480i>480p) will be done before the AVR ever sees the signal.

The important thing to remember (and why I linked that article) is scaling is pretty easy, it's the deinterlacing that is the hard part! That is the #1 advantage of the ABT-2010 chip, it is a champ at deinterlacing.
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post #3730 of 7011
3/1/10 at 12:20pm
In a F12 subwoofer forum, member Tingham said "Audyssey made a world of difference in my sub and overall sound. I can't recommend it highly enough. There are so many variables involved with a subs performance imo. Room placement, acoustics, and equipment makes all the difference on how a sub will perform. Going from a lower end AVR w/Audyssey to a higher end AVR w/Audyssey changed the sound of my setup and sub. And for the better."
Now he was talking about how he went from the avr789 with "Audyssey MultEQ" vs. upgrading to the avr989 with "Audyssey MultEQ XT".
Do you guys know how that "XT" in the 989 would compare to the audyssey of the 2310, in relation to the F12 subwoofer, or just subwoofers in general? And maybe just speakers in general?
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post #3731 of 7011
3/1/10 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by drn4u View Post

Quick question! Just bought the 2310 and Panasonic 58 inch V10 plasma. Unfortunately it won't pass the HDMI signal (I checked and it is version 52!) and I understand that I have to upgrade the software. But the other issue I have is that when I have the Panasonic on, the 2310 won't accept any remote commands. As soon as I turn the TV off, it works fine. I have NO HDMI inputs into the 2310 because of the CEC issue but was wondering if there was any workaround for this problem. THANKS!

What do you mean specifically when you say "it won't pass the HDMI signal?" If you turn the Viera Link in the V10 to OFF, there should be no HDMI-CEC interference with the 2310. Other than that setting, there shouldn't be any problem with the V10. It's the components connected to the 2310 that generally have HDMI handshake issues. What components are you having HDMI handshake problems with?
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post #3732 of 7011
3/1/10 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by plata90 View Post

Hi somebody can tell me what are the firmware list and what is the last firmware versione released out for the 2310?

thanks

Seriously?

As often as you've been in this thread you would think you'd seen the many posts to refer to the last link in my sig for more info on the 2310 firmware update.
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post #3733 of 7011
3/1/10 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

Do you guys know how that "XT" in the 989 would compare to the audyssey of the 2310, in relation to the F12 subwoofer, or just subwoofers in general? And maybe just speakers in general?

Folks who have upgraded to XT (with a decent set of speakers) generally notice an overall improvement in audio quality due to the more advanced filters used in XT. If you search the 2809/989 thread you will see numerous comments about this. If they don't chime in here, then PM SoundofMind and Bill Mitchell who both upgraded their lower level Denon AVR to a 989 to get the MultEQ XT filtering. They can give you their personal experience on the matter.
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post #3734 of 7011
3/1/10 at 1:07pm
After enjoying my Denon 1909 in the family room the last year, I got a good deal on a 2310 I couldn't pass up. The 2310 will go in the media room replacing a Pioneer Elite VSX84 which has served me well the last 4 years.
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post #3735 of 7011
3/1/10 at 1:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

Do you guys know how that "XT" in the 989 would compare to the audyssey of the 2310, in relation to the F12 subwoofer, or just subwoofers in general? And maybe just speakers in general?

the "XT" version has much higher resolution filters (8x more powerful) on the satellites than regular MultEQ, but the exact same resolution on the subwoofer, you can see the chart at Audyssey here: http://www.audyssey.com/technology/m...solutions.html

so they are actually identical as far as the subwoofer is concerned... however XT will still provide a lot of gains with "bass" in general because there is still a big chunk of the troublesome bass region (300Hz and down) that is being covered by the satellite speakers, and not the sub. This is what is generally noted with the change to an XT version -- better, flatter, smoother overall bass performance, and a little bit of extra "polish" overall.

In tingham's case, he also upgraded to a much higher-end AVR, so to be fair there were more variables in play beyond just MultEQ vs MultEQ XT.
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post #3736 of 7011
3/1/10 at 2:09pm
It looks like I need to do some research on Audyssey myself, and I will. But, I'd like to ask another quick question. On such a small speaker system that I am designing, consisting of 5.1 (Take Classics and F12) and for zone b very small bookshelfs in other rooms and outside, would I even notice the difference between these two different audysseys?
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post #3737 of 7011
3/1/10 at 3:36pm
Thread Starter 
no.... probably not... from what you have described of your friends' setup, they are not audiophiles and the "convenience features" of the 2310 (GUI, volume overlay) will probably be more appreciated than some incremental increase in MultEQ accuracy.
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post #3738 of 7011
3/1/10 at 4:11pm
I am experiencing what I would describe as "stuttering" when watching 1080i recordings. My setup is 1080i from the source to the AVR which converts to 720P for display on my (768P) plasma. I only have noticed this when watching CBS basketball recordings - when the players move around the video seems to freeze temporarily for a split second. At first I thought it was maybe the CBS signal or a problem with the recordings but I have watched the same portion of the recorded video over and over again and the "stuttering" goes away when I turn the video conversion off on the AVR and then returns when I turn it back on. It also seems to be diminished when I switch the "Progressive mode" of the AVR to "Video1" from "Auto". I have never noticed anything like this with any 720P sports recordings.

Has anyone else seen anything like this? I am starting to lose confidence in the implementation of the video processor given the other (source switch to 720P lost volume overlay) problem I am experiencing.
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post #3739 of 7011
3/1/10 at 4:34pm
Thread Starter 
sounds like it is messing up the framerate conversion, also supported by the fact that changing the "progressive mode" helps. Have you noticed this with any other content? I have never seen this personally, but I have seen similar "stuttering" effects on Fox HD baseball broadcasts (not caused by Denon, this is a separate thing) and it is a product of the framerate getting butchered somewhere in the chain...

out of curiosity, why do 720p output with a 1080i channel? the channel is going 1080i > downscaled to 720p > re-upscaled to 768p. Seems like feeding the 1080i straight into the display would work better....

since you have it recorded, have you tried other permutations? e.g. have you set the cable box to 720p output to see if the same thing happens when the box is doing the conversion?
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post #3740 of 7011
3/1/10 at 6:13pm
The Denon 2310 gets very good reviews from the British press.

Is the British 2310 different from the 2310ci sold in the U.S.?
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post #3741 of 7011
3/1/10 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

out of curiosity, why do 720p output with a 1080i channel? the channel is going 1080i > downscaled to 720p > re-upscaled to 768p. Seems like feeding the 1080i straight into the display would work better....

since you have it recorded, have you tried other permutations? e.g. have you set the cable box to 720p output to see if the same thing happens when the box is doing the conversion?

I haven't noticed this with other content yet - it is obvious with basketball and I might just have missed it with other content.

I chose 720p output for the AVR because I thought I might get better results with the i/p conversion taking place in the AVR but I'm really not sure if that is the case. I think I tried 1080i output from the AVR and still noticed the "stuttering" before but I will have to try 720p output from the source and the other combinations to see if it is any different (on my next recording). Thanks.
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post #3742 of 7011
3/2/10 at 5:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by margolbe View Post

The Denon 2310 gets very good reviews from the British press.

Is the British 2310 different from the 2310ci sold in the U.S.?

Just a little different, yes: (a) Power difference of course, 50hz vice 60hz, (b) also comes in silver rather than only black, (c) only 1 switched outlet vice 2, and (d) a "full" set of pre-outs vice only the sub pre-out. Other than that, they're the same. If you haven't already found the EU firmware update link, click on the last link in my sig and read towards the bottom of that post which will allow you to download updates for Denon EU AVRs including the 2310.
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post #3743 of 7011
3/2/10 at 7:25am
Really dumb basic question.....still getting to know my 2310.

With the 2310 in standby (red light around power button), I turn on the unit with the DVD quick select button. The unit powers up into DVD, then reverts to TV EXT IN, forcing me to re-select DVD.

What am I doing wrong?????
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post #3744 of 7011
3/2/10 at 7:44am
Rememorize the settings under QS 1 by pressing and holding the button for several seconds. The next time you select QS1 it should start up with DVD with the correct input. Also, turn the HDMI-CEC setting on your TV to OFF (Samsung - Anynet+, Panasonic - Viera Link, Sony - Bravia Link, etc.).
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post #3745 of 7011
3/2/10 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by crbaldwin View Post

I am experiencing what I would describe as "stuttering" when watching 1080i recordings. My setup is 1080i from the source to the AVR which converts to 720P for display on my (768P) plasma. I only have noticed this when watching CBS basketball recordings - when the players move around the video seems to freeze temporarily for a split second. At first I thought it was maybe the CBS signal or a problem with the recordings but I have watched the same portion of the recorded video over and over again and the "stuttering" goes away when I turn the video conversion off on the AVR and then returns when I turn it back on. It also seems to be diminished when I switch the "Progressive mode" of the AVR to "Video1" from "Auto". I have never noticed anything like this with any 720P sports recordings.

Has anyone else seen anything like this? I am starting to lose confidence in the implementation of the video processor given the other (source switch to 720P lost volume overlay) problem I am experiencing.

I have noticed this stuttering or freezing effect on several different occasions watching recorded HD programs. I have a 1080i plasma with an HD DVR set to 1080I and the I/P Scaler on analog. I have all HDMI cables.
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post #3746 of 7011
3/2/10 at 11:44am
Thread Starter 
if the HD DVR is connected w/ HDMI then the i/p scaler set at "analog" means the receiver isn't doing anything! the "stuttering" could be part of the signal or caused by the DVR.

Quote:


I have a 1080i plasma

no you don't plasmas are FIXED PIXEL displays, you probably have a 768p set.
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post #3747 of 7011
3/2/10 at 12:15pm
[quote=batpig;18235718]if the HD DVR is connected w/ HDMI then the i/p scaler set at "analog" means the receiver isn't doing anything! the "stuttering" could be part of the signal or caused by the DVR


In the case where, I'm running all HDMI cables, and have I/P scaler on Analog, would it be wise to turn video convert to off, or does it matter?
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post #3748 of 7011
3/2/10 at 12:20pm
Thread Starter 
well, you might as well turn the i/p scaler OFF since it doesn't matter.

video convert is a separate thing, you need to leave this ON so the Denon can overlay the GUI.
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post #3749 of 7011
3/2/10 at 2:55pm
I'm planning on getting both the Denon 2310 and the Oppo BDP-83. However, I saw that both have Anchor Bay upscaling chips. Assuming that I stick with both the receiver and the BD player for a long time, would it be overkill in terms of upscaling to get both the Denon 2310 and the Oppo?

I can either downgrade to a lower Denon model or a lower Oppo model so that I only have one Anchor Bay chip and save $200-$300 in the process. What do you think?
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post #3750 of 7011
3/2/10 at 3:05pm
Thread Starter 
there isn't much reason to get the Oppo 83 over the 80 with an HDMI receiver especially since the 2310 has the ABT chip built in. I would do that instead.

the other option (sticking with the Oppo 83 but downgrading to Denon 1910/1610) means you lose the GUI, volume/status overlay, fifth HDMI input, etc. Even if you neglect the video scaling in the AVR, from what I have heard the BDP-80 is nearly as good as the 83 and you won't really notice a difference unless you have a giant screen.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › *OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 2310CI / 890 Owner's Thread