Denon AVR-4810CI/AVR-4810 w/ 9.3ch, Dolby PLIIz/Audyssey DSX, October 09- - Page 84

Thanks for your suggestions. I spoke to the owner of the business I ordered the Denon from. He asked me to call Denon on Monday and see if they could offer a 'fix'. If not, I pay return shipping cost (there goes 50-75 bucks but Denon wouldn't pay shipping either) but he will pay shipping back and also send a new unit out.

As an aside, for those who've had WiFi problems like I've had (not connecting); after I did a system reset yesterday and before I updated the firmware, the WiFi was working beautifully again. The Ethernet has always worked.

If anyone needs a new 4810 let me know....

PM sent.

I went around to a friend's place the other day. He has a Denon A1 pre/pro setup hooked up to some monster power amps (Bel Canto REF1000M x 3, M300 x 2), and driving some really nice speakers (Thiel CS3.7, MCS1 x 3 + SmartSub2) but only 5.1.

I have a simpler setup (4810) hooked up to 2xREF1000M and driving CS2.4SEs for mains, and a mish mash of speakers (B&W CDM CSE center, B&W 601S2 side surrounds, Mirage NanoSats rear surrounds and height and an incorrectly placed Atlantic Technology bipole for wides).

For the most part, the sound/music from my friend's setup is just better. But when I was watching Transformers II on his setup vs my more puny system, I couldn't help but feel the sense of immersion with DSX during the forest fight scene was just a whole lot better..

Woof, Woof. great observation... Your thoughts mirror mine. My speakers are less a "miss-mash" than yours and frankly the big 803S's sound mighty fine in simple stereo. But, I have always felt "speakers above all else", with decent power and a well laid out room are the most critical factors in a great sounding system. But...... Audyssey EQ and multiple speakers for movies is more immersive and often better for quality movie watching.

My guess is if you had his speakers with your Denon in 5.1 you'd be hard pressed to call his system "better". The big Denon is pretty nice though.

I heard the A1 pre/pro is due for a firmware upgrade for DSX/IIz sometime but he's not too keen on the upgrade.



For the most part, it's cos he can't really have the space to put more MCS-1s in that room. Those speakers are huge!!!

For my own part, I am swapping the B&W CDM CSE out for an MCS-1 for center duties and getting a REF500M to power that baby. The thing is most people keep saying you need the same drivers/family of drivers for timbre matching but I found that with Audyssey EQ, the pans have become very very seamless even when the speakers aren't identical.

I still remember the first time I booted up Transformers II IMAX in 11.1 on my 4810. I had just watched it a few weeks earlier on my Onkyo 875 in 7.1. With the 11.1/DSX enabled, Megatron's voice coming from the front left, then wide left as the camera panned around TheBeef in the forest was just damned eerily good.

When the other robots flew in from behind the screen, having 4 rear speakers in the rear, then the wide created another stupidly good moment that I just couldn't stop grinning.

Also waiting for an opportune moment to move the gear around my living room to create a more conducive 11.1 setup.. with proper wides this time (currently placed too high).

Can I please ask what is bound to be a throughly naive question?

I dont get any sound out of my 4810 until I turn on my projector (that is the only HDMI out I am using) - not an issue for movies but if I want to listen to music, I have to turn my projector on. I only have to turn its standby power on - not actually power it up. Once it is on and audio springs to life, I can turn the PJ off at the mains and the 4810 continues to output audio.

What am I missing?

Many thanks

I'm on it.

What's the source?

It's probably querying the HDMI chain using EDID and not getting a proper response.

One way to bypass this is to "force" the HDMI audio to a particular mode (ie not Auto EDID).

The other thing to check is to make sure that the AVR sends only video to the projector. I recall in the HDMI settings on the 4810 there's a setting for HDMI Audio Out. Make sure it is Amp and not TV.

If you include TV, then it may trip up the source.

But on the other hand, if you are using a TV, you won't get any audio on the TV with this mode.

Thanx a lot - the source is the denon 3800 bluray.
I'll look into the things you suggested when i get home
cheers

Sounds very much like the dreaded and much hated "HDMI Control" issue. On the Pioneer plasma's you have to go in to the menu and set HDMI Control to AVR otherwise it tries to grab the audio device as itself. Really bloody annoying feature that some techy brain head thought would be a "cool idea" without actually bothering to test it with a real AV set-up first.

After the firmware update I lost video and audio through HDMI and component. I called Denon today and this is what turned out to be a very helpful response.
When doing a system reset (page 134) the support person said to let the display blink at least 3 times to completely reset everything. I hadn’t done that; only once or twice. Now that I’m home, I let it blink 10 times and everything is working beautifully again. I had priced mailing the receiver back for servicing and UPS and USPS wanted anywhere from $85 to $107...yikes!

The Denon rep also said that HDMI has handshaking issues with a variety of products. This can also happen after a firmware update. First try to do a system reset as above. If this doesn't work, his suggestion for this and any problems down the line would be to do a ‘reverse’ handshaking procedure. I wrote it down and here it is for those who might need this in the future:
1. Make sure all HDMI A/V components are turned on
2. Disconnect all HDMI cables from the receiver – leave all components on for 1 minute.
3. Power off all components
4. Plug in all HDMI cables to the receiver
5. The following order is important:
A. Turn on the TV (I assume projector, too. He said the TV is what HDMI is looking for first)
B. Next, turn on the receiver, wait for 1 minute
C. Next, turn on the remaining components (dvd, bluray, etc.), wait for 1 minute for each one before turning on the next component.
Everything should be synched now.

Disclaimer: I tried to be as thorough as possible and hope I haven’t made any errors on these procedures. I would hate to be blamed if you do the above and brick your unit, so for best practices you should probably call Denon:
Customer Service hours of operation:
9:00 AM to 5:00 PM ET, M-F
Tel: 201-762-6665
Fax: 201-762-6695

Tocaje, you wouldn't happen to be a lawyer, would you?

OK - got it sorted - it was the 'vselect' being on auto rather then defined as monitor 1 or 2. Soon as I changed that it came to life.

Many thanks for the suggestions leading to the answer - its been bugging me for 3 mths.

Got one step closer to completing my "ideal" system.

Got a Bel Canto REF500M together with a Thiel MCS1 for center duties. It's a direct match of the coaxial unit used in my CS2.4SEs. I figured I didn't need the REF1000Ms I was using for L/R duties and I was not far wrong. The REF500Ms are supposed to be a bit sweeter and so far that seems to be the case. The dialog is sharper and more distinct than the B&W CDM CSEs (powered by the AVR) but more importantly, there's a lot more body and oomph behind the center channels.

Right now listening/watching to the David Foster and Friends BluRay in HD audio Direct Mode and it's bloody awesome!!

Think I need timber matched Wides/Surrounds next. And probably a Wyred4Sound ICEBox MC6x250W (same modules as the REF500Ms but w/o the power regulation and a different, ie W4S' implementation of the input buffer stage)

Is anyone out there having trouble getting a 4810? I've had one on order for 10 days and the etailer says Denon is backordered.

Could someone post the height of the unit? Denon's website says 7.7 inches, but I wasn't sure if that included the "circle foot spacer thingys" at the bottom of the unit or not. I'm trying to see if my current shelves can accommodate it or not. Thank you.

7-5/8" is the measurement to the top. 7-3/4" to be safe.

Great my evil plan to control the Denon Universe has worked. Now what to do with the commission from Denon...... Just kidding.....

To be out of product this long sounds suspect, unless they can give you a definitive ETA. When my first one bricked the retailer I used who; could replace was able to track inventory to the dock in LA. I suggest you get the details.... You may be getting a to impossible to believe story.

I ordered a 4810 last Tuesday from Crutchfield and had it on Friday. I would dig in a bit with your supplier on this one.

Thank you very much for taking the time to measure this for me!

I bought mind from Crutchfield also. Zero issues and have used them for decades now. Best customer service I have found.
Usually costs a little more but peace of mind is worth it to me.

God Bless,
Brian

P.S. Did the latest update wirelessly last week with no issues. This is an
awesome pc of A/V equipment!

Just got my 4810. Been setting it up last couple of days, but I've got a question regarding the volume level. I have Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1s for L/C/R speakers. They are 86.5-87 dB sensitivity. I seem to have to turn the amp up pretty high to get significant volume (-16dB to -4dB on the volume indicator). It seems like I wouldn't need to turn it up this high. I know "significant volume level" is subjective, but I'm not trying to rattle the windows, just to a point where it sounds loud. Does this seem right or am I missing something in the set-up? Thanks.

Your numbers seem about correct. Those are not very efficient speakers.... Never heard them though. 1st thing, when you did Audyssey EQ, what did you get for +- on each speaker? I'd imagine a fairly big plus vs any surrounds (assuming higher efficiency). With my Emotivas, I get a minus 5 to 8 db to match the external amps to my B&W 803's vs my internally powered in ceiling B&W cc80 surrounds. Audyssey EQ sets the surrounds at -2db. These numbers are kind of useelss though unless taken in to consideration with your own 5.1, 7.1, 9.1, or 11.1 system.

I'm just saying to get to true reference level with the 4810, you'll be hitting high db on the Denon if a). Your EQ'ing sets the level lower. b). You don't adjust this up.

Others please, please jump in and make me look stupid....

Actually, I haven't set my surrounds up yet, so I haven't even run Audyssey. I am ok turning the 4810 up higher to listen when I want it louder, but I'm concerned about overworking the Denon. (should I be?) My surrounds will likely be Sonance in-ceiling speakers that have sensitivity of 90dB. I will also have 6 pairs of matching in ceilings throughout the house and was planning on buying a Niles 12 channel to run those on zone 2. Any thoughts?

I think it depends on the gain on the external power amps. The test tones generate a 75dB signal for calibration.

After using my trusty ratshack SPL, and getting them about normalized in levels, I find I have to turn up the volume knob pretty high too.. abt -6 to -9dB for some TV shows. For movies, I can make do with -12 to -15dB.

powers2020 Woof, Woof said it better. The indicator less -db on the Denon is fairly worthless. I'll try and explain. 1st, pre eq'd you haven't set the real reference level utilizing the 75 db test tones. Also, its signal that drives the Denon. If your source also comes in at less gain, you'd get less sound at each indicated db mark. Got that?

I too, for a lot of TV find myself at -11 to -8 and everything is/was fine; even before adding the external amps.

Those fronts of yours are again, not very efficient but as long as they don't have whacked resistance issues and you are not trying to power a stadium; my guess is you'll be just fine.

I just ordered mine last night from AVS (thanks joerod) and my tracking number tells me it will be here on Friday.

I haven't read this entire thread yet (working on it) but I'm curious as to what kind of speakers people are using for heights? Would it be better with dipole, bipole or direct firing? It will probably be about a month before I get the speakers but I thought I could start shopping for them now.

I'm sure I'll have more questions after I get this monster on Friday so any info I can soak up is greatly appreciated.

I am using B&W ccm816's. They are in ceiling and fully angled (meaning both drivers) to 30 degrees. Based on my main seating area this translates to a near perfect centering to my ears.....on couch.......with booze in hand. Dang well close to perfect.....

To answer your question though. You should want direct firing. With 9.1 or 11.1 and Audyssey DSX, one would want direct firing. The only exception to this would be if you had in-wall or on-wall surrounds in a traditional 7.1 configuration. Again, mega-audio pros, please feel free to blow up my logic. I Have toed in the speakers only about 2 degrees and have the main focal points hitting the couch nicely. Do not go with Dipoles or other indirect firing speakers.

On a sadder note, my wife at dinner tonight, finally called "Uncle" on the media room. Evidently, I went too far in suggesting a dual screen 2.40 and 1.85 system with an Anamorphic lense as our next upgrade. Then I started prepping long term for a 3D projector. Seems I first have to commit to a real Safari in Africa and a trip to Australia - New Zealand before I get the next set of upgrades. Since, I have not budgeted ohhhh let's say $20 grand for insanely expensive crazy vacations...... I now must live through the media room upgrades of others. It's been fun boys....

I joke here, but from the look across the dinner table..... she clearly was not.

Crap....Crap.....Crap...... I've been benched!!! Guess it's time to go crazy custom on the Harmony 1100...