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Denon AVR-4810CI/AVR-4810 w/ 9.3ch, Dolby PLIIz/Audyssey DSX, October 09- - Page 130

post #3871 of 4021
Hi all - long time no post. Thus far, my replacement NIC has held it together.

Question -

I got a new entertainment center, so I had to de- and rewire everything. I am no longer getting audio from the Apple TV2 to Zones 2 or 3. Now, I'm sure this is that damn HDMI limitation, but I could SWEAR I somehow had it working before, and I it wouldn't have been via any additional connections to the Apple TV2 (limited as it is in that respect). Can someone remind me of any workaround I'm not thinking of?
post #3872 of 4021
Answered my own question by looking back at my own posts (duh). I did indeed have an optical out from the Apple TV2 for Zones 2 and 3. Wasn't part of what I dismantled (I carefully labeled everything when I did it), so I have no idea how it just disappeared at some point!
post #3873 of 4021
^^
Too funny .. although I have done that myself as well.

You're fortunate in that the 4810 is one of only a handful of AVRs on the market that will pass optical/digital coax to Zones 2/3.
post #3874 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Too funny .. although I have done that myself as well.

You're fortunate in that the 4810 is one of only a handful of AVRs on the market that will pass optical/digital coax to Zones 2/3.

True, but why no support for HDMI audio to Zone 2/4? IMO we should be done with multiple connections between the source devices and AVR...
post #3875 of 4021
I have a 4810 and I'm considering getting an Oppo BDP-93 for blu-ray, SACD & DVD-A playback.
Anybody with a Denon AVR 4810 using an Oppo player via HDMI for SACD & DVD-A playback?
Currently I'm using a Denon 3930CI via Denon Link for SACD & DVD-A playback.
This works great but I would like to get a new player which can do it all.
Was wondering how the Oppo 93 handles multi-channel SACD via HDMI?
Does it work as well as Denon link?
Does the display on the Denon show DSD Multi-CH when DSD is selected on the Oppo?
Any replies would be greatly appreciated.
Happy Holidays!!
post #3876 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJHXBR View Post

I have a 4810 and I'm considering getting an Oppo BDP-93 for blu-ray, SACD & DVD-A playback.
Anybody with a Denon AVR 4810 using an Oppo player via HDMI for SACD & DVD-A playback?
Currently I'm using a Denon 3930CI via Denon Link for SACD & DVD-A playback.
This works great but I would like to get a new player which can do it all.
Was wondering how the Oppo 93 handles multi-channel SACD via HDMI?
Does it work as well as Denon link?
Does the display on the Denon show DSD Multi-CH when DSD is selected on the Oppo?
Any replies would be greatly appreciated.
Happy Holidays!!

Yes, I have that combo and you will get DSD DIRECT on the display from the Oppo. I am actually curious once you get it set up if you prefer it over Denon Link playback. I was thinking about getting a 4010 if I see one used.
post #3877 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockL View Post

True, but why no support for HDMI audio to Zone 2/4? IMO we should be done with multiple connections between the source devices and AVR...

no receiver does it, period. It would be expensive and complex to implement and wouldn't sell any more receivers... as it is, they can advertise "multizone" functions and then you can figure the rest out later. The same is true for all brands.

the thing is, other zones have independent source control, in order to maintain that it would require a second, separate HDMI decoder / processing chipset. These CE mfgrs can barely handle one HDMI input, getting two simultaneous, independent outputs to work with HDCP stuff would be an even bigger nightmare.

the closest you can get is that the high end Yamaha receivers can do a "party mode" where the HDMI signal in main zone can be broadcast to all zones, but it's not a true independent zone system.
post #3878 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchPope View Post

Yes, I have that combo and you will get DSD DIRECT on the display from the Oppo. I am actually curious once you get it set up if you prefer it over Denon Link playback. I was thinking about getting a 4010 if I see one used.

Thanks MP for the reply and confirmation that the Oppo 93 works with the 4810 for SACD and DVD-A playback via HDMI.
I'm now inclined to give the Oppo 93 a shot and see how it does compared to my trusted 3930CI player using Denon link.
Most likely won't do this until some time after the holidays, but will report back with my findings.
Once I get the Oppo 93 I will be able to do A/B comparisons between HDMI and Denon Link with both players connected to the 4810.
In theory I would think they should both sound the same, as the DSD signal will be bit-streamed to the 4810 for processing. Will be interesting to find out.
Hopefully my 4810 will continue to be problem free and I won't have to deal with the dreaded NIC issue(s) many have been plagued with.
Keeping my fingers crossed and counting my blessings.
post #3879 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJHXBR View Post

I have a 4810 and I'm considering getting an Oppo BDP-93 for blu-ray, SACD & DVD-A playback...

I have had several Oppos ( 83, 83SE and 93) with several Denon AVRs (2809, 4310) and current AVR A100 (4311). All work together very well and sound great. BTW, I heard a slight improvement sending DSD direct to the Denon for decoding but no difference between sending bitstream and PCM for BluRay. Oppo is a great company and they give you a "free" 30 day in-home trial. You're out the shipping if you return it. That said, read on...

As for DenonLink, I was skeptical but decided to give it a go. I matched my AVR A100 with a DBP A100 (4010) and did extensive level-matched A/B tests. I was pleasantly surprised at the significant SQ improvement over the Oppo via HDMI when the Denon player is using DL3. This holds true for RBCD, DVDA and SACD. But playing BluRays with DL4 I found no improvement in SQ or PQ. I've posted on this here in the player thread.

For a Denon AVR owner with a DL3 player, be aware that any decent BRP will have the same exc SQ and PQ when connected via HDMIand as you already have an exc universal player, it may not be a value investment to spend $500 on what is for you a BluRay player. I have sold all my beloved Oppos now. It will be most interesting to know of your results should you do the A/B.
post #3880 of 4021
This is very interesting info. Are you saying that the 4810 uses DL3 and DL4 for different usage modes? ie., DSD/DVD-A playback via the denon link cable will activate DL3, while HDMI bluray audio uses DL4?

Do you also know if DL3 uses the same method as DL4 in making the player a slave to the av amp's dac? Thanks if you can share your knowledge of Denon Link, because it's quite badly documented. I'm using a 3805 with a denon link A11 player using DL3 and am thinking of upgrading to DL4 if it sounds even better for SACD/DVA-A playback.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

I have had several Oppos ( 83, 83SE and 93) with several Denon AVRs (2809, 4310) and current AVR A100 (4311). All work together very well and sound great. BTW, I heard a slight improvement sending DSD direct to the Denon for decoding but no difference between sending bitstream and PCM for BluRay. Oppo is a great company and they give you a "free" 30 day in-home trial. You're out the shipping if you return it. That said, read on...

As for DenonLink, I was skeptical but decided to give it a go. I matched my AVR A100 with a DBP A100 (4010) and did extensive level-matched A/B tests. I was pleasantly surprised at the significant SQ improvement over the Oppo via HDMI when the Denon player is using DL3. This holds true for RBCD, DVDA and SACD. But playing BluRays with DL4 I found no improvement in SQ or PQ. I've posted on this here in the player thread.

For a Denon AVR owner with a DL3 player, be aware that any decent BRP will have the same exc SQ and PQ when connected via HDMIand as you already have an exc universal player, it may not be a value investment to spend $500 on what is for you a BluRay player. I have sold all my beloved Oppos now. It will be most interesting to know of your results should you do the A/B.
post #3881 of 4021
DL4 is essentially an "expansion" of DL3 to support BD audio. So DL4 and DL3 are identical wrt SACD/DVD-A... thus the point he was making that if you already have a DL3 player for hi-rez audio, it may not be worth upgrading to the Oppo if you ALSO already have a good BDP. The only advantage would be joining the two into one universal deck.

In terms of DAC's, DenonLink is a DIGITAL transport so of course you will have to use the receiver's DAC's regardless of the version. If you want to use the player's DAC's by definition you will have to use an analog output. The only way you can ever avoid a digital receiver's DAC section is by using the multich analog inputs.
post #3882 of 4021
Wow this is great info. Thanks batpig...
I've enjoyed both the A11's internal DACs (with various clock and circuit improvements) via analog output, and the 3805's DACs via DL3. DL4 is an interesting feature if I depend on hdmi for BD Audio but for that, I resort to the analog outputs of my Oppo. So I think I can delay the upgrade til DL5 appears. Haha!

Thanks again for the valuable info.


Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

DL4 is essentially an "expansion" of DL3 to support BD audio. So DL4 and DL3 are identical wrt SACD/DVD-A... thus the point he was making that if you already have a DL3 player for hi-rez audio, it may not be worth upgrading to the Oppo if you ALSO already have a good BDP. The only advantage would be joining the two into one universal deck.

In terms of DAC's, DenonLink is a DIGITAL transport so of course you will have to use the receiver's DAC's regardless of the version. If you want to use the player's DAC's by definition you will have to use an analog output. The only way you can ever avoid a digital receiver's DAC section is by using the multich analog inputs.
post #3883 of 4021
I just started using my 4810 after being out of town for the last 4 months and noticed it has a message for a firmware update.
My questions for the community are: Since my 4810 is currently working trouble free, should I install this latest firmware update?
I haven't updated it in at least six months and it has been working without any issues.
Anybody know what the real benefit is of this latest firmware update?
Anybody have problems with the most recent firmware update once installed?
Would YOU recommend updating or would you leave it as is?
Any reply's would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks & Happy Holidays!!
post #3884 of 4021
Me personally, I always update but there are many that will tell you "If it aint broke, don't fix it".
post #3885 of 4021
Hey guys - I got a pair of wireless cans for Christmas (something to do with our 10 month old girls? maybe!).

Since they are wireless (and thus there is a transmitter that can always be connected), is there a way to connect via L/R analog on the back instead of going via the jack on the front? And then I'd have to figure out how to do the jack type of override, of course, where it only outputs to that analog connection.
post #3886 of 4021
yes, you can connect with analog RCA from any of the "rec out" outputs but (1) it will not automatically cut the volume to the speakers like the headphone jack will and (2) it will have the same restrictions as zone2/3 (i.e., analog or 2.0 PCM from spdif only). If are not using zone 2 or 3 it might be helpful to set the wireless headphones that way because then you could turn off or mute main zone while preserving audio to the headphones.
post #3887 of 4021
Thanks (as always) batpig. Yes, I figured out the analog out, and someone else thought of the Zone 2/3 solution, but those zones are in use. Looking at p.98 of the manual, it seems like the whole record procedure might be a bit clunky (plus main volume adjustment as you say AND I have to go to the receiver to use the "ZONE 2/3/4 / REC SELECT" button), so perhaps I just run it to the front jack from behind (slightly clean) and plug in when desired.
post #3888 of 4021
Ok, so I have a 4810 and a 3D tv. I have all my audio/video sources running thru my 4810. How can I take advantage of the 3D tv and still have a multi channel audio solution?

Would I run the 3D video output from the 3D BD player directly to the tv and then an optical output (if there is one on the 3D BD player) to my 4810 for the multi channel audio?

Is there a better solution out there? Like the Oppo 95?

Thanks!
post #3889 of 4021
^^
Although some 3D formats may pass through the 4810CI, only an HDMI 1.4a AVR will guarantee they will all pass through to the TV. Using your existing devices passing HDMI to the TV with optical to the AVR is your best solution, noting you will only get lossy DD/DTS at best, otherwise you could upgrade to a dual HDMI 1.4a BDP (eg. Oppo 95) and pass 3D video to the TV and HD audio to the AVR.
post #3890 of 4021
The lower cost Oppo 93 also has dual HDMI outputs.
post #3891 of 4021
I am running a samsumg plasma 8000 series with my avr 4810. I purchsed a dual hdmi BR in order to be able to feed 3D content. I f I needed to use the cable box (conected via HDMI to the 4810) is there way to do this with out using or turning on the denon? My wife likes to use the HT TV but does not care to turn on all the equipment.

Thanks
post #3892 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by fab68 View Post

If I needed to use the cable box (conected via HDMI to the 4810) is there way to do this with out using or turning on the denon ?

Yes, there is a way - you should turn on the HDMI pass through function in the receiver's settings
post #3893 of 4021
post #3894 of 4021
I have a 4810CI and have all video components hooked up to it via HDMI and my question is this: I would like to be able to watch TV and listen to another audio source. The manual says you cannot output a HDMI video source while listing to another audio source like the tuner. If I hook up via component it will work but my cable box will not output HDMI and component at the same time so I would have to unhook the HDMI cable when I wont to do this. Is there another way or maybe a HDMI splitter that I can plug into the HDMI output on my cable box and run one output to the TV and another output to the 4810 input that way my 4810 can be completly off if I wanted it to be or could choose to change video input on TV and run the the 4810. Sorry for the long post and I hope that made sense. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated...Joe
post #3895 of 4021
Joe, your question makes complete sense to me as I've thought about the same setup and haven't found a good solution. Looking forward to hearing others' responses.
post #3896 of 4021
there is no workaround other than avoiding HDMI through the receiver.

you can either:

1) run the HDMI from the cable box to the TV directly, with a digital audio cable to the receiver for audio; because the video from the cable box is dissociated from the receiver, you can use ANY other audio source and mix it with the cable TV video signal. This is the most flexible solution and the only downside is an extra cable going to your TV.

2) if you want to keep things flowing through the receiver, just use component video + digital audio from the cable box and ditch the HDMI cable (this is what I do).
post #3897 of 4021
If you use component to the 4810 from the cable box then dont you alway have to have the 4810 on to convert component to HDMI to run to the TV? Right now I have it hooked up that way and I also have a HDMI cable from the cable box to the TV which takes priority and there for I do not have to have the 4810 on all the time and if I want to run thru the 4810 I unhook the HDMI from the cable box and swap inputs on the Sony TV. The main reason I have it this way is so the GUI will still work when I'm going thru the 4810
post #3898 of 4021
correct, if you want to watch TV with the receiver off, then just go with option 1.
post #3899 of 4021
Thanks for the info.
post #3900 of 4021
Good evening,
Long time no post. Actually, i think i've only made two previous posts

1.
Now that i've been a daily user of my Denon 4810 for over a year now, i love the ability to access the device through my browser but i am very, very dissapointed in the layout and functionality of the web interface.

Does Denon read these forums?
Do we have a forum for providing input/feedback to them for software (s/w) fixes/changes to that?

2.
To piggyback on a previous post about Oppo83 BDP, I've also got this one.
If you have both HDMI and analog connections made, the receiver will default to your chosen connection in setup. It will read DSD/SACD on the face but the sound is coming through the HDMI. I tested last night by disconnecting the HDMI and then the sournd "auto" chose analog.

I do have both DVD-A and SACD/multich and stereo discs and was testing everything last night.
I've got a very fine set of analog cables for Multich and Stereo connections.
To be honest, I liked the audio through the HDMI better. I was surprised.

Well,
Hopefully it won't be another year before my next post.
I will be looking for any of your thoughts on a voice into Denon for us die-hard fans.

A final thought, I hope to be upgrading my speakers this year. Either Martin logan Ethos or Maggie 1.7's.

Dan
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