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DVD-Audio decoder for foobar2000 - Page 11

post #301 of 388
3/25/12 at 6:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

Gapless playback means no pauses between tracks. Think of Dark Side of the Moon, Abbey Road, or other recordings where one track transitions to another without a gap, or pause. Playing from a HDD, the Oppo will introduce a pause of about a second between the tracks. I have also tried many different DLNA servers, and all have pauses between tracks when streamed to the Oppo.

It's the biggest disadvantage to playing music from a HDD or streaming music via DLNA to the Oppo, IMO. Foobar and other media players can play gapless from a pc or htpc. I'm curious if other media streamers offer gapless playback.

A workaround is to rip a single full-disc FLAC with a cuesheet but even then, the Oppo won't play gapless if played from the cuesheet. You can get gapless playback by playing the full-disc FLAC directly, but then you don't get track info, or navigation control (selecting tracks, Stop, Pause, etc.) when playing directly from the full-disc FLAC file.

If I can get true gapless playback with a WDLive NAS, then it would be time to retire my WD MyBook World Edition NAS. Can you verify that you get no gaps by playing Dark Side of the Moon, if you have that recording?

BTW, I use the same process for ripping FLACs from DVD-A discs, although I've settled on DVD Audio Extractor as my preferred ripping software vs. DVD-A Extractor.

In between hammer blows on the media room remodel/expansion I was able to get in there and test the "gapless" on the -93. You are correct: When streaming it will add about a 1 sec gap on the playback - I tried my LOVE DVD-A and it misses a beat or two at the start of each track. Never noticed this before or paid any attention..........

Sorry if I got your hopes up; However, can't you just merge/join the album side flacs into 2 files - one file for each album side? They will be big files but I think the -93 can handle them.

I use a freeware program called HJSPLIT which shows on the console that it will both join and split files. I have only used it to split files so I don't know about its effectiveness on merging/joining but I am sure there are plenty of programs that will do that if HJSPLIT doesn't. If you try it, please let me know how it works as I may do that also. I only have about 5 discs that would require this so it wouldn't be too big a task to handle.
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post #302 of 388
5/15/12 at 9:28pm
How much pc power does it take to play back multichannel SACD iso's in foobar2000? I think it takes a quad core? I was looking at a AMD A6 quad core pc but I want to make sure it will play the iso's properly...TIA
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post #303 of 388
5/16/12 at 6:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by himey View Post

How much pc power does it take to play back multichannel SACD iso's in foobar2000? I think it takes a quad core? I was looking at a AMD A6 quad core pc but I want to make sure it will play the iso's properly...TIA

You could play a multichannel SACD iso in Foobar2000 in Windows using a pentium single core processor circa 2001
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post #304 of 388
5/16/12 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by himey View Post

How much pc power does it take to play back multichannel SACD iso's in foobar2000? I think it takes a quad core? I was looking at a AMD A6 quad core pc but I want to make sure it will play the iso's properly...TIA

I have an AMD quad core and playback using the Foobar SACD decoder plugin uses about 20-25% of my cpu for 2-channel, and 40-50% for multichannel iso's. This has dropped significantly since the decoder was first introduced when it was 90% or higher for multichannel. Later iterations of the plugin are much more efficient.

If you use Foobar to create FLACs from the SACD iso, it's still very CPU intensive, almost 100% for all 4 cores for multichannel. Can't do much else while converting to FLAC files.
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post #305 of 388
5/16/12 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

In between hammer blows on the media room remodel/expansion I was able to get in there and test the "gapless" on the -93. You are correct: When streaming it will add about a 1 sec gap on the playback - I tried my LOVE DVD-A and it misses a beat or two at the start of each track. Never noticed this before or paid any attention..........

Sorry if I got your hopes up; However, can't you just merge/join the album side flacs into 2 files - one file for each album side? They will be big files but I think the -93 can handle them.

I use a freeware program called HJSPLIT which shows on the console that it will both join and split files. I have only used it to split files so I don't know about its effectiveness on merging/joining but I am sure there are plenty of programs that will do that if HJSPLIT doesn't. If you try it, please let me know how it works as I may do that also. I only have about 5 discs that would require this so it wouldn't be too big a task to handle.

Sorry, I missed this post earlier and just saw it. I haven't tried joining FLAC files, but I have ripped single per-disc FLAC files for those recordings where gapless playback is essential such as Love, Abbey Road, DSOTM, etc.

The biggest negative is you lose track info and navigation control (except ff and rw). However, as long as you listen to those recordings straight through from beginning to end, it's not a problem.

I would think if you use a program such as HJSPLIT on individual FLAC files after they've been created, it would accomplish the same thing. However, I don't know what would happen to the tag info if they are joined, that might be an interesting experiment.
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post #306 of 388
5/16/12 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post


Sorry, I missed this post earlier and just saw it. I haven't tried joining FLAC files, but I have ripped single per-disc FLAC files for those recordings where gapless playback is essential such as Love, Abbey Road, DSOTM, etc.

The biggest negative is you lose track info and navigation control (except ff and rw). However, as long as you listen to those recordings straight through from beginning to end, it's not a problem.

I would think if you use a program such as HJSPLIT on individual FLAC files after they've been created, it would accomplish the same thing. However, I don't know what would happen to the tag info if they are joined, that might be an interesting experiment.

If you rip the .flac with an associated .cue you lose no navigation
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post #307 of 388
5/16/12 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

If you rip the .flac with an associated .cue you lose no navigation

Right, but we were talking about streaming the FLAC files to our Oppo with gapless playback. In doing so, the Oppo introduces a gap between tracks when streaming using a cue sheet with a single FLAC file, although you do have navigation control with the cue sheet. Streaming the single FLAC file directly using Foobar is gapless, but streaming from the cue sheet, it's not gapless (with the Oppo). I realize this is not the case on a pc or using a Dune. There must be some limitation with an Oppo that creates a pause when going from one track to the next on the cue sheet.
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post #308 of 388
5/16/12 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

..........but I have ripped single per-disc FLAC files for those recordings where gapless playback is essential such as Love, Abbey Road, DSOTM, etc.......

How did you do this?
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post #309 of 388
5/16/12 at 4:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

How did you do this?

I used Foobar because it was easy to set up and also to create a cue sheet at the same time.

I'm sure I could have used EAC which is my standard method of ripping CD's, but I didn't go to the trouble of setting up a separate profile for ripping a single file.
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post #310 of 388
5/16/12 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

I used Foobar because it was easy to set up and also to create a cue sheet at the same time.

I'm sure I could have used EAC which is my standard method of ripping CD's, but I didn't go to the trouble of setting up a separate profile for ripping a single file.

Did you try any DVD-A in this fashion?

I'm now needing to fix my flac rips of DVD-A - Now that you have pointed out the gap, I notice it every time I listen.
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post #311 of 388
5/16/12 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

Did you try any DVD-A in this fashion?

I'm now needing to fix my flac rips of DVD-A - Now that you have pointed out the gap, I notice it every time I listen.

Unfortunately once you hear the gaps, it's just not the same as gapless. I tried listening to Love recently from my flac files, and just couldn't do it. I had to play the DVD-A ISO instead to get gapless playback. I'm not sure if DVD Audio Extractor or DVD-A Explorer will rip single flac files from a DVD-A?

Edit: As a test, I tried using DVD Audio Extractor on the Beck Sea Change DVD-A, but the box that is checked for "Save each chapter to an individual file." is grayed out and can't be unchecked.

Second Edit: I used Foobar to select the multichannel tracks from the Beck Sea Change DVD-A ISO and converted these to a single flac file just like a CD.
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post #312 of 388
5/16/12 at 6:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

Unfortunately once you hear the gaps, it's just not the same as gapless. I tried listening to Love recently from my flac files, and just couldn't do it. I had to play the DVD-A ISO instead to get gapless playback. I'm not sure if DVD Audio Extractor or DVD-A Explorer will rip single flac files from a DVD-A?

Edit: As a test, I tried using DVD Audio Extractor on the Beck Sea Change DVD-A, but the box that is checked for "Save each chapter to an individual file." is grayed out and can't be unchecked.

Second Edit: I used Foobar to select the multichannel tracks from the Beck Sea Change DVD-A ISO and converted these to a single flac file just like a CD.

OK - thanks.

Sounds like you ripped the ISO for streaming and used that ISO file in foobar but it should work the same with a shiny disc. I will try it and see.

BTW, I don't remember but were you one of us that tried the SACD ripping with the PS3 routine? If so, what kind of results did you get when converting the ISO to flac or wav? I was successful with the ISO rips OK but the conversion to flac broke down for me.........I never was satisfied with the resulting sound quality. It was like I didn't get all the bits. Spent a lot of time on it and pretty much quit and haven't had time to fiddle with it anymore.
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post #313 of 388
5/16/12 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

OK - thanks.

Sounds like you ripped the ISO for streaming and used that ISO file in foobar but it should work the same with a shiny disc. I will try it and see.

BTW, I don't remember but were you one of us that tried the SACD ripping with the PS3 routine? If so, what kind of results did you get when converting the ISO to flac or wav? I was successful with the ISO rips OK but the conversion to flac broke down for me.........I never was satisfied with the resulting sound quality. It was like I didn't get all the bits. Spent a lot of time on it and pretty much quit and haven't had time to fiddle with it anymore.

Yes, I've ripped my SACDs to ISOs using the PS3, and then converted these to flac files using the SACD decoder in Foobar. The sound quality is not as good as playing from the discs IMO, but for casual listening, it's ok. For really critical listening, I still play from the discs.
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post #314 of 388
5/16/12 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

Yes, I've ripped my SACDs to ISOs using the PS3, and then converted these to flac files using the SACD decoder in Foobar. The sound quality is not as good as playing from the discs IMO, but for casual listening, it's ok. For really critical listening, I still play from the discs.

I agree, that has been my experience too. My DVD-A rips to flac are 100% the same as my shiny discs but not so with the SACD. I suspect the breakdown is the 1 bit conversion issue. Will be glad when someone comes out with an SACD ISO streaming device though.
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post #315 of 388
5/16/12 at 10:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

You could play a multichannel SACD iso in Foobar2000 in Windows using a pentium single core processor circa 2001

Not 5.1 in HiRez. 4.0 sometimes works but not perfectly all the time. 5.1 doesn't come close. Did you mis read my question?
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post #316 of 388
5/16/12 at 10:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

I have an AMD quad core and playback using the Foobar SACD decoder plugin uses about 20-25% of my cpu for 2-channel, and 40-50% for multichannel iso's. This has dropped significantly since the decoder was first introduced when it was 90% or higher for multichannel. Later iterations of the plugin are much more efficient.

If you use Foobar to create FLACs from the SACD iso, it's still very CPU intensive, almost 100% for all 4 cores for multichannel. Can't do much else while converting to FLAC files.

Thanks for the info. From what I have read on the forums a dual core doesn't quite cut it power wise. My 3.0ghz single core plays back stereo iso's nicely but chokes hard on 5.1. Quad works OK but not perfectly.

Downloaded foobar2000 controller Pro for a buck and a half for android and it works very well...anyone else use this to play files without sitting at PC?
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post #317 of 388
5/17/12 at 4:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

Will be glad when someone comes out with an SACD ISO streaming device though.

I had hoped that would be the Oppo, until ISO support was pulled. It will be interesting to see if one of the media streamers will add SACD ISO playback. I don't see any reason it couldn't be done since Foobar with the SACD decoder can do it on a pc. I'm also surprised that, apparently, no other media streamer supports DVD-A ISO playback either, at least that I can find.
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post #318 of 388
5/17/12 at 6:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post


Yes, I've ripped my SACDs to ISOs using the PS3, and then converted these to flac files using the SACD decoder in Foobar. The sound quality is not as good as playing from the discs IMO, but for casual listening, it's ok. For really critical listening, I still play from the discs.

Did you use 24/88 format for FLAC? If you choose another sample rate, sound can be degraded by rate conversion.
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post #319 of 388
5/17/12 at 7:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

Did you use 24/88 format for FLAC? If you choose another sample rate, sound can be degraded by rate conversion.

Yes, I always use 24/88 for SACD conversions to PCM in FLAC format. I had experimented with 24/96, but I understand 24/88 is better with less resampling required for SACDs.

For everything else (DVD-A, BD, CD), I keep the sample rate the same as the source.
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post #320 of 388
5/17/12 at 7:46am
Are you extracting DSD and then converting to FLAC, or going directly to FLAC from the ISO?
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post #321 of 388
5/17/12 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Are you extracting DSD and then converting to FLAC, or going directly to FLAC from the ISO?

As I understand it, the Foobar SACD decoder plugin does a direct extraction and conversion from the ISO to PCM, either for playback or for converting to FLAC. It's simple, but I know there are tools such as Saracon, that others use for converting to FLAC.

I believe Saracon will convert DSD/DST to PCM, but is Foobar capable? I haven't tried to extract DSD first, but if that results in better quality, I would give it a try. What is used to extract the DSD?
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post #322 of 388
5/17/12 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

As I understand it, the Foobar SACD decoder plugin does a direct extraction and conversion from the ISO to PCM, either for playback or for converting to FLAC. It's simple, but I know there are tools such as Saracon, that others use for converting to FLAC.

The developer of the SACD Ripper worked with the Foobar developer on the SACD plugin. I have yet to do any listening tests comparing the various solutions for producing FLAC from SACD, but "free" is a powerful factor.

Quote:


I believe Saracon will convert DSD/DST to PCM, but is Foobar capable? I haven't tried to extract DSD first, but if that results in better quality, I would give it a try. What is used to extract the DSD?

I looked at all of these pieces of software when I first modded a PS3, but I forget which ones were complete. I seem to remember multiple apps in one of the workflows .. a huge PITA. Like I said, I haven't done comparisons, but "free" and "SIMPLE" are powerful factors.

Jeff
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post #323 of 388
5/17/12 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

The developer of the SACD Ripper worked with the Foobar developer on the SACD plugin. I have yet to do any listening tests comparing the various solutions for producing FLAC from SACD, but "free" is a powerful factor.


I looked at all of these pieces of software when I first modded a PS3, but I forget which ones were complete. I seem to remember multiple apps in one of the workflows .. a huge PITA. Like I said, I haven't done comparisons, but "free" and "SIMPLE" are powerful factors.

Jeff

I like free and simple also.
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post #324 of 388
5/17/12 at 11:25am
When I was ripping my SACD's a few months ago, the SACD ripper would give you the ISO and you then could use a separate plugin for the ripper that would give you the DSD. From the DSD you then had to use a separate program to convert to Flac, WAV or whatever. I did not use the Foobar plugin, and I am not sure of this but it may not do multichannel - I seem to remember there was some limitation to the foobar plugin or some problem. I wound up using one of those trial versions of Saracon, Pyramix and the Philips converter.

I think the breakdown is going from DSD ........... You are taking something that is 1 bit long and converting it to something in different bits and sampling rates.......As PEPAR noted, just a major PITA and very time consuming. The SACD ripper worked well (if you are the tinkering sort) and I got the DSD OK. You are also talking about working with some pretty huge files so copying and moving and archiving take time too.
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post #325 of 388
5/17/12 at 11:32am
Yes, there is SACD Ripper that runs on the PS3 and then SACD Extract which runs on a PC. SACD Ripper can output DSD, but it is recommended that it be used only for ripping the ISO and the heavier work be done on another computer. The PS3s needed to run SACD Rippers are rare and ... delicate.

Jeff
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post #326 of 388
5/17/12 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

The SACD ripper worked well (if you are the tinkering sort) and I got the DSD OK. You are also talking about working with some pretty huge files so copying and moving and archiving take time too.

The later versions of "Ripper" in conjunction with SACD Extract have a network feature which allows activation of Ripper from the PC with the output going across the network to storage. I tried it once and went back to USB sticks because I didn't want to tie up my PC the length of time needed to rip an ISO. Plus my PS3 and PC are a chair spin apart ...

Jeff
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post #327 of 388
5/18/12 at 4:32pm
Back on this SACD ISO playback scenario, does anybody know how to get Foobar server working with an NAS? If I could install Foobar server on my NAS, I might be able to play the SACD ISO rips through the Oppo BDP-93.

I briefly looked at the Foobar server and it looked like it is possible but not being a computer genius, I didn't pursue it. Shouldn't it work like Twonky? I assume that Foobar server must convert the ISO to LPCM so it may not be possible from an NAS due to CPU overhead needs for the LPCM conversion.
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post #328 of 388
5/21/12 at 2:32pm
Have you verified that the Oppo 93 can playback multichannel FLAC? It may be limited to 2 channel only. Also, can Oppo 93 play back streamed PCM 5.1 or 7.1? If so, you can set up the foobar to transcode to PCM using foo_upnp plugin for example --- but yes, CPU would have to be pretty fast.
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post #329 of 388
5/21/12 at 5:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxleung View Post

Have you verified that the Oppo 93 can playback multichannel FLAC? It may be limited to 2 channel only.

Yes - it will play multichannel flac up to 24/192. That was one of the reasons I purchased the player. I listen to all my ripped mch DVD A discs that way.

Quote:


Also, can Oppo 93 play back streamed PCM 5.1 or 7.1? If so, you can set up the foobar to transcode to PCM using foo_upnp plugin for example --- but yes, CPU would have to be pretty fast.

If the 93 does (and I don't know if it does) this sounds like it would require an HTPC or the like which is not the direction I want to go with the SACD rips.
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post #330 of 388
5/21/12 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxleung View Post

If so, you can set up the foobar to transcode to PCM using foo_upnp plugin for example --- but yes, CPU would have to be pretty fast.

I've used Foobar to transcode SACD ISOs to PCM on-the-fly and stream to my Oppo. My pc has a quad core AMD processor and I had some pauses and stuttering until I changed some of the Foobar upnp server settings. Unfortunately, the sound quality was lacking IMO. After experimenting with different settings, I gave up. SACD are the only discs I still play from after ripping all my other music to FLAC.
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