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MFW-15 w/ new July 2009 amps <absolutely NO AV123 or MLS bashing/negativity!!> - Page 5

post #121 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by theelviscerator View Post

If you look at the study...the really high temps they say it takes to affect a drive....are probably exceeded by your average dell locked in a desk with the door closed..

I have been running raptors in RAID for years now. without a single drive or volume failure.....they do have fans right on their noses ...yessir...

Cool, never hurts electronics. Yes some components can stand the heat better then other...but all things the same I feel safer with my drives at 30c then 50 or 60c..


My new amp is running cooler, but then again running as a pair now...it can loaf..

Love the Raptor's, have 4 new Velociraptors now in my main machine, damn things scream!

Having duals is sweet, I just wish I had a bigger room!
post #122 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Does anyone know if there is a NEW warranty period with the NEW amps?

I talked to MLS yesterday and asked him this very question. Since they haven't officially announced anything I'll just say that they are discussing it and hope to announce something soon.

-- jaydillyo
post #123 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

Not really, the study clearly shows that old HD that are hot fail sooner. Look at Figure 5. If a drive made it to the 3 or 4 year mark the hotter drives have higher failure rates.

I disagree with your conclusion. When I look at that chart, it shows that all drives live the same age, and failure rates only increase at very, very high temperatures. Running 45C for a hard drive for its entire life has no effect on the lifespan of the device.

This contradicts the advice being posted here; that cooler is better and the cooler you get it the longer it will live. 100,000 hard drives show that this is not true.

And heatsinks that are functioning properly are warm while they do it. They don't get cool by sucking heat away from hardware - they get warm and stay that way the whole time the device is on.
post #124 of 2801
Well.....not a new one, but my MFW died, too. We'll see how this goes.
post #125 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerHarley View Post

I received two replacement amps on July 6th, both are still kicking some serious donkey butt.

The following is for the JERKS:



I'm sure AV123 will take care of any problems with defective replacement's, and meanwhile, the whiners will also be extremely fast to get some attention + post counts, by constantly acting like jerks with their bashing and trashing vendetta against AV123.

Read the title of this thread, then go ask your Mommy what it means, because you obviously don't know, then go away.

HH

I think you need to go look up the term "ironic."

Furthermore, attacking posters here at AVS is not allowed. Attacking products is allowed.

Maybe you should read the user agreement unless you want a guaranteed short stay here. A lot of people were made angry at the way things were handled...deservedly so.
post #126 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noubourne View Post

I disagree with your conclusion. When I look at that chart, it shows that all drives live the same age, and failure rates only increase at very, very high temperatures. Running 45C for a hard drive for its entire life has no effect on the lifespan of the device.

This contradicts the advice being posted here; that cooler is better and the cooler you get it the longer it will live. 100,000 hard drives show that this is not true.

Run as you see fit, nobody is telling you otherwise...

Quote:


And heatsinks that are functioning properly are warm while they do it. They don't get cool by sucking heat away from hardware - they get warm and stay that way the whole time the device is on.

I don't see anybody saying that they will run cool (although, it is possible of course) the point is run it as cool as possible. Of course they run warm using typical cooling methods, your statement was hot heatsinks are good, this is in fact wrong but again, run it as you see fit.

Lets take this senseless debate to the proper forum shall we? This isn't the place....
post #127 of 2801
Well the Google study is for a bunch of hardrives and to look to extend and apply the conclusions, however you want to interpret them, beyond hardrives to the MFW replacement amps seems misguided.
post #128 of 2801
So far so good, my mfw is running cooler then the last unit....its my MBM to my Dragon...0
post #129 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by theelviscerator View Post

So far so good, my mfw is running cooler then the last unit....its my MBM to my Dragon...0


"....its my MBM to my Dragon...0"

Can you please explain what that means?
post #130 of 2801
I believe he's saying that he's using it as a mid bass module which then transitions to his 'real' subwoofer.
post #131 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Well the Google study is for a bunch of hardrives and to look to extend and apply the conclusions, however you want to interpret them, beyond hardrives to the MFW replacement amps seems misguided.

AGREED. Mechanical devices with lots of moving parts or friction (hard drives) have NOTHING to do with heat of solid state devices like electronics.

All should want cool. My old amp (still working) runs warm to hot. I would be much happier if it were cool or room temp. I designed a system one time (No details, but it was hot) and by the time I was done it was cool to the touch. Much happier customer and engineer

If your heat sink is HOT, you better be blowing some air across it. I suppose now is a good time to show my ignorance. I did not know that heat sinks "wicked" or "absorbed" heat from a device. I always thought that all it did was increase the surface area from the area of the top of the IC to an area that is dozens to hundreds of times larger to allow the heat to be transfered off into the air more efficiently?
post #132 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

Well.....not a new one, but my MFW died, too. We'll see how this goes.

Hey there graphicguy, sorry to hear that you're feeling some of the woes of those who've had MFW issues. If it's "not a new one," can you tell us approximately when you purchased it? I'm assuming you're implying that it's older than say late November or December 2008, or is it? I'm sure I could look back and figure it out, but no way am I gonna go back and read all of your posts! I want to get a feel if I should be expecting a surprise from my summer 2008 purchase.

Funny story - A couple days ago as I was walking through my kitchen, I heard a low, loud subwoofer hum that lasted about 2 or 3 seconds. None of my audio equipment was on and I casually thought to myself, "Well, there goes MY POS MFW." I turned around and walked back to where I was and I heard it again. Every time I walked through this certain area the noise would come back. Eventually I found a spot where if I just stood there, the loud hum was continuous! Strangely, (and happily for me) I realized that the noise was coming from the direction opposite my "theater" room where the MFW lives. In our family room, I have a smaller 5.1 system with a Klipsch Sub 10. I eventually figured that someone who was cleaning up in that room accidentally pushed the sub backwards a few inches such that the cable was pinched against the wall. Everything was ok unless you stood above probably the same floor joist in the opposite room... weird, huh?!? Anyhow, bottom line is that my MFW continues to function as intended, no signs of impending doom whatsoever... fingers crossed!
post #133 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdaudioguy View Post

Hey there graphicguy, sorry to hear that you're feeling some of the woes of those who've had MFW issues. If it's "not a new one," can you tell us approximately when you purchased it? I'm assuming you're implying that it's older than say late November or December 2008, or is it? I'm sure I could look back and figure it out, but no way am I gonna go back and read all of your posts! I want to get a feel if I should be expecting a surprise from my summer 2008 purchase.

Funny story - A couple days ago as I was walking through my kitchen, I heard a low, loud subwoofer hum that lasted about 2 or 3 seconds. None of my audio equipment was on and I casually thought to myself, "Well, there goes MY POS MFW." I turned around and walked back to where I was and I heard it again. Every time I walked through this certain area the noise would come back. Eventually I found a spot where if I just stood there, the loud hum was continuous! Strangely, (and happily for me) I realized that the noise was coming from the direction opposite my "theater" room where the MFW lives. In our family room, I have a smaller 5.1 system with a Klipsch Sub 10. I eventually figured that someone who was cleaning up in that room accidentally pushed the sub backwards a few inches such that the cable was pinched against the wall. Everything was ok unless you stood above probably the same floor joist in the opposite room... weird, huh?!? Anyhow, bottom line is that my MFW continues to function as intended, no signs of impending doom whatsoever... fingers crossed!

md.....roughly 4-5 months old. It is what it is. Unfortunate, to be sure. Need to get it resolved. MLS is aware of the failure.
post #134 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by pameredith View Post

AGREED. Mechanical devices with lots of moving parts or friction (hard drives) have NOTHING to do with heat of solid state devices like electronics.

All should want cool. My old amp (still working) runs warm to hot. I would be much happier if it were cool or room temp. I designed a system one time (No details, but it was hot) and by the time I was done it was cool to the touch. Much happier customer and engineer

If your heat sink is HOT, you better be blowing some air across it. I suppose now is a good time to show my ignorance. I did not know that heat sinks "wicked" or "absorbed" heat from a device. I always thought that all it did was increase the surface area from the area of the top of the IC to an area that is dozens to hundreds of times larger to allow the heat to be transfered off into the air more efficiently?

Off topic.

The function of a heat sink is to draw heat energy away from an electronic component. The design of the heat sink is to maximize the amount of surface area for the heat sink to convect the heat energy into the surrounding atmosphere. So the efficiency of the heat sink is a function of physical design and the material used. Some heat sinks are made of aluminum and some out of copper. Finally, the mating of the component and the heat sink is absolutely critical for proper and efficient thermal transfer. This is why stuff like thermal grease is used.
post #135 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noubourne View Post

I disagree with your conclusion. When I look at that chart, it shows that all drives live the same age, and failure rates only increase at very, very high temperatures. Running 45C for a hard drive for its entire life has no effect on the lifespan of the device.

Well, we now know you don't know how to read charts. Thanks for clearing that up for us.
Quote:


This contradicts the advice being posted here; that cooler is better and the cooler you get it the longer it will live. 100,000 hard drives show that this is not true.

Semiconductors last longer the cooler they are run. A semiconductor run at 85C will not last as long as one run at 25C. This is an indisputable matter of fact.

This fact may not be applied with absolute certainty to things with moving parts that can have a variety of failures not related to the semiconductor based components failing due to high operating temps. That being said the hotter drives did show higher failure rates for older drives. Look at the data for drives 3 years old. That is exactly what is to be expected.



Even if you want to argue that the data doesn't show an increased failure rate for drives that ran hotter, it doesn't disprove that heat is the enemy of semiconductors. It would only mean that the time frame looked at wasn't long enough to show the effects of the temperatures involved.

The amps in the MFW-15 do not have moving parts. They are mostly semiconductors. The amps certainly will last longer if they run cooler than those they run hot.
post #136 of 2801
Stereodude speaks the truth. The Google study is not nearly as useful as it looks. It's impossible to make statements about how much heat affects the lifetime of hard drives if you don't control for other factors such as usage pattern, brand, humidity, and so on. That's why "controlled studies" exist.
post #137 of 2801
People comparing hard drives to power transistors.
People saying heat sinks shouldn't get hot.
Haters ignoring the thread title and throwing more crap like little monkeys.
Funny stuff.
post #138 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnsteph10 View Post

I think you need to go look up the term "ironic."

JUST FOR U
"Ironic" implies an attempt to be amusing or provocative by saying usually the opposite of what is meant

Furthermore, attacking posters here at AVS is not allowed. Attacking products is allowed.

Read the title of this thread

Maybe you should read the user agreement unless you want a guaranteed short stay here. A lot of people were made angry at the way things were handled...deservedly so.

Guaranteed short stay>>Been here longer than you John

Sorry,,,I crossed the line.

HH
post #139 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

"....its my MBM to my Dragon...0"

Can you please explain what that means?

Just a silly remark really, not too be taken seriously.

Many folks take this stuff far too serious, and could lighten up a little.

Since my Dragon goes deeper then the MFW, I am calling the MFW a MBM, which is kinda funny...I thought..

Actually together they are working quite well together....I have tons of headroom, and effortless bass with both of them nearfield....
post #140 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riffmeister View Post

Just got mine today and it is now up and running. I forgot how great this sub is--it sounds fantastic. The new amp is louder than the original, though my original may have been bad from day one anyways.
It is a tight fight, but nothing to complain about. I did have to lay a cloth-covered piece of wood on the edge of the amp and give it a couple very light taps from a hammer and it fits perfectly.
The only problem I encountered is that one of the speaker connections was loose, so I had to give the female end a little squeeze with the pliers and then taped them up for good measure.
The whole job shouldn't take more than ten or fifteen minutes. If this type of thing is difficult for you, you shouldn't buy subwoofers over the internet. It certainly is hell of a lot easier than boxing up an MFW and shipping it out for repairs anyways.
My sub is now pumped up and drowning out all the haters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riffmeister View Post

People comparing hard drives to power transistors.
People saying heat sinks shouldn't get hot.
Haters ignoring the thread title and throwing more crap like little monkeys.
Funny stuff.

Sorry no offense meant but are you normally angry by nature?
post #141 of 2801
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Ok audio people....I am tired of reading multiple threads on the new amps for the MFW-15 and or the MFW-15s sold with the new amps. I am even more tired of people ranting and cursing AV123 and de-railing EVERY thread that has anything to do with an AV123 product.
I want this thread to be ONLY for people that have received the new MFW amps that were to ship at the end of June 09, or for those that bought a new MFW-15 that have these newer amps installed.

^^^^^^^^ THREAD TOPIC REMINDER ^^^^^^^^

OK, this thread has been de-railed for pages now because of this heat sink debate. There obviously seems to be a little concern with the heat generated by these new amps; however, I think the detailed discussion of the background and theory of heats sinks is disctracting the intention of this thread. I would like to keep this thread focused on updates of people receiving these new amps.

Thanks to member shenlon for creating a new thread to focus on this heat sink topic. You PC wizards can debate this interesting topic of hardware longevity, heat sinks, and the history of building computers in the following thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1163987

By the way, it is always fascinating to see the experience and intelligence of many AVS members in various topics.
post #142 of 2801
My MFW-15 shipped Friday.
post #143 of 2801
Congrats StimpsonJCat I am still waiting for my ship date. I ordered a plain black one about a month ago.
post #144 of 2801
deleted, no point...
post #145 of 2801
ok enough with the cooling charts. Id like to see some more first hand reviews about exactly how much "cooler" these "new" ones run compared to the originals? I would much like to know, as I ordered 2 supposedly with the "newer amp". mucho gracias!
post #146 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by StimpsonJCat View Post

My MFW-15 shipped Friday.

When did you order?
post #147 of 2801
I did not take measurements, but the new amp is running considerably cooler than the original. Although I don't believe heat was the cause of failure on the bad amps anyways.
There appears to be some misunderstanding about the operation of a heat sink by some folks. The plate of the amp is supposed to draw the heat away from the semiconductors (power transistors) that are attached to it and dissipate that heat by convection. When it is hot it means that it is working. If you don't burn your hand when you touch it, it is probably ok. I have amps that that are over 20 years old that get a lot hotter than the MFW and they continue to work.
post #148 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumaki View Post

When did you order?

Late May. Should be here Tuesday.
post #149 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by StimpsonJCat View Post

Late May. Should be here Tuesday.

Congratulations. I'm anxious to hear what you think of its performance.
post #150 of 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riffmeister View Post

I did not take measurements, but the new amp is running considerably cooler than the original. Although I don't believe heat was the cause of failure on the bad amps anyways.
There appears to be some misunderstanding about the operation of a heat sink by some folks. The plate of the amp is supposed to draw the heat away from the semiconductors (power transistors) that are attached to it and dissipate that heat by convection. When it is hot it means that it is working. If you don't burn your hand when you touch it, it is probably ok. I have amps that that are over 20 years old that get a lot hotter than the MFW and they continue to work.

And if it gets TOO hot, its an UNDERSIZED heatsink.
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