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The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Pt. II - Page 96

post #2851 of 6727
10/27/09 at 5:26am
I thought I posted this but maybe not.

So the other night I put the 111 and the 500M side by side and after I fiddled with the inputs etc on the TV and the AVR to the point where I thought the blacks were performing as they should on the 500. I have to say in a totally dark environment the 111 was equaling or better than the 500M in the race of which has better blacks. I still need to get the the AVR out of the loop but my back is out and I can't do it just yet. I'll do another side by side then as well. Oh and this was a DirecTV only test and not one DTV box so I may be a little off in my testing.

By the way, the calibrated 500M overall looks amazing thanks to D-Nice. Aside from the blacks the picture just jumps out at me from the 500M.
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post #2852 of 6727
10/27/09 at 8:19am
Anyone know why 3dyc is greyed out in the settings menu and what is the correct setting. I found it in the user manual but can't change it.

Also if I activate HD converter in the menu it will change from input 5 to 6. I am trying to clean up some motion lag. Had my SA 8300hd box set at 1080i, now it's at 720p and the picture is cleaner with alot less motion lag. Can I run the STB with pass thru and have the display convert signal?
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post #2853 of 6727
10/27/09 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dano382 View Post

Anyone know why 3dyc is greyed out in the settings menu and what is the correct setting

Grayed options are not available in the current mode or configuration. I would expect 3dyc to only be available for composite input.

Quote:
Also if I activate HD converter in the menu it will change from input 5 to 6.

Which menu is this?
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post #2854 of 6727
10/27/09 at 11:23am
Does anyone know if the 500M will work with the older 6th Gen Elite PDK-1013 swivel stand as pictured here?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...81#post8025981

Never mind - found the answer earlier in the thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post16275205

The posts on my 1013 look to be the same as those on the 1012, so it should work. Thanks.
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post #2855 of 6727
10/27/09 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Grayed options are not available in the current mode or configuration. I would expect 3dyc to only be available for composite input.



Which menu is this?

Home>control setup>HD AV converter

What setting do most use on there STB 480i/p, 720p, or 1080i? Just notice alot more noise and motion blur with 1080i, 720p seems good but loose dot by dot.
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post #2856 of 6727
10/27/09 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by platypus View Post

Does anyone know if the 500M will work with the older 6th Gen Elite PDK-1013 swivel stand as pictured here?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...81#post8025981

Never mind - found the answer earlier in the thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post16275205

The posts on my 1013 look to be the same as those on the 1012, so it should work. Thanks.



The PDK-1012 has worked fine with my 500M. Just mount the support posts higher than normal, using one bolt instead of two. Also, when you screw the posts into the 500M, use the 30 mm bolts; the 40 mm ones are too long. The stand weighs 24 lbs

pic -
LL
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post #2857 of 6727
10/27/09 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony9 View Post



The PDK-1012 has worked fine with my 500M. Just mount the support posts higher than normal, using one bolt instead of two. Also, when you screw the posts into the 500M, use the 30 mm bolts; the 40 mm ones are too long. The stand weighs 24 lbs

pic -

Nice! Just about ready to purchase. Glad I won't need to buy a new stand as the 4360 will be going on the wall in our bedroom.
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post #2858 of 6727
10/27/09 at 3:32pm
So bad back and all I decided to test my system without the AVR in the loop and whattya know the black levels dropped to an impressive level. So now I have to figure out why my much liked Denon 2807 is playing tricks.

Another thing that caught my eye while testing the 500M with my DTV box directly connected with an HDMI cable was that when changing channels right before the picture popped on was how the blacks would elevate and then drop and then elevate up a notch. The weird thing is if the level dropped and stayed I would be mighty impressed with the difference between the 111 and the 500., Anybody else notice this happeing?
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post #2859 of 6727
10/27/09 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dano382 View Post

Also if I activate HD converter in the menu it will change from input 5 to 6.

Ah, you've enabled Kuro Link, Pioneer's name for HDMI consumer electronics control (CEC). I often forget it exists. It can have unexpected side effects (as you've seen) and provides little if any benefit.
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post #2860 of 6727
10/27/09 at 4:52pm
Anyone know any retail stores that sell these in Toronto, GTA?

It just frustrating, I am looking to buy a new plasma which prob might be Panny G15 or Sammy 650 but I really want the 500M but I can't find anywhere to buy it in Canada and in the GTA, since their not sold in Canada.

I know I could get 101fd, but I am not paying almost 1k more for the exact same display for the exception of 2 more hdmi, all I would need to do is pay for patch.
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post #2861 of 6727
10/27/09 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

Anybody else notice this happeing?

Yes.
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post #2862 of 6727
10/27/09 at 5:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

So bad back and all I decided to test my system without the AVR in the loop and whattya know the black levels dropped to an impressive level. So now I have to figure out why my much liked Denon 2807 is playing tricks.

Another thing that caught my eye while testing the 500M with my DTV box directly connected with an HDMI cable was that when changing channels right before the picture popped on was how the blacks would elevate and then drop and then elevate up a notch. The weird thing is if the level dropped and stayed I would be mighty impressed with the difference between the 111 and the 500., Anybody else notice this happeing?

Just tried my 500M without the AVR (Yamaha 665), no real change perceptible with several Blu-ray movies direct from a Pioneer BDP-51FD, tried with all 4 YUV/RGB settings on both player and display.

Curious, even with your improvement in black level, are you experiencing the "bezel-melting blacks" that others claim?
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post #2863 of 6727
10/27/09 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonny21 View Post

I can't find anywhere to buy it in Canada and in the GTA, since their not sold in Canada.

Yes, they're not sold in Canada. Sadly you didn't buy during the 101FD promotion.
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post #2864 of 6727
10/27/09 at 5:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

So bad back and all I decided to test my system without the AVR in the loop and whattya know the black levels dropped to an impressive level. So now I have to figure out why my much liked Denon 2807 is playing tricks.

Another thing that caught my eye while testing the 500M with my DTV box directly connected with an HDMI cable was that when changing channels right before the picture popped on was how the blacks would elevate and then drop and then elevate up a notch. The weird thing is if the level dropped and stayed I would be mighty impressed with the difference between the 111 and the 500., Anybody else notice this happeing?

I wonder if this is a DTV problem. I have Comcast with the new Cisco RNG 150 STB. Have you tried Blurays? My 500M looks noticeably blacker than any set I have ever seen, whether with bluray or cable.
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post #2865 of 6727
10/27/09 at 5:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dano382 View Post

Anyone know why 3dyc is greyed out in the settings menu and what is the correct setting. I found it in the user manual but can't change it.

Also if I activate HD converter in the menu it will change from input 5 to 6. I am trying to clean up some motion lag. Had my SA 8300hd box set at 1080i, now it's at 720p and the picture is cleaner with alot less motion lag. Can I run the STB with pass thru and have the display convert signal?

Motion lag? I watch all content in 1080i (except bluray of course), watch alot of sports with fast action, and get zero motion lag. I am watching Celtics Cavs on TNT 1080i right now and it looks awesome. I used to have a SA 8300 but recently got the new Cisco 150RNG STB from Comcast, maybe this is better? Maybe your provider has a better box available, that one seems to have some issues.
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post #2866 of 6727
10/27/09 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Yes.

Cute but what I'm noticing now is a bit different.
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post #2867 of 6727
10/27/09 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

Cute but what I'm noticing now is a bit different.

That was one example of many. Depending on how attentive you are you'll see a variety of shades of "black" as the panel powers up and during the HDMI handshake. If you're not running in native mode then it might be something else.
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post #2868 of 6727
10/27/09 at 7:03pm
Ok but I'm wondering if that lowest dip is what others see as a final shade of black.
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post #2869 of 6727
10/27/09 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

Ok but I'm wondering if that lowest dip is what others see as a final shade of black.

For me it is. I directly connect my Comcast DVR and PS3 to the 500m. The blackest that the TV gets (when there's a signal) is the black I see on most content.
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post #2870 of 6727
10/27/09 at 8:01pm
When I go to "input setup" then change "video" from auto to RGB-16-235, any movies that I play on my PS3 have a magenta color to them.

The only video setting that gives a normal picture during video playback is YUV444. However, if i change it to stay at YUV444, the regular video PS3 main screens / menus have a green overtone.

Is this something normal? or is there something wrong with the TV? I just picked it up yesterday, so I just wanted to make sure before I end up setting it all up- to find out its broken. Thanks,
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post #2871 of 6727
10/27/09 at 8:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D3lusions03 View Post

When I go to "input setup" then change "video" from auto to RGB-16-235, any movies that I play on my PS3 have a magenta color to them.

The only video setting that gives a normal picture during video playback is YUV444. However, if i change it to stay at YUV444, the regular video PS3 main screens / menus have a green overtone.

Is this something normal? or is there something wrong with the TV? I just picked it up yesterday, so I just wanted to make sure before I end up setting it all up- to find out its broken. Thanks,


You have to also go into the menu on the ps3 and change it also.
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post #2872 of 6727
10/27/09 at 8:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

So bad back and all I decided to test my system without the AVR in the loop and whattya know the black levels dropped to an impressive level. So now I have to figure out why my much liked Denon 2807 is playing tricks.

Another thing that caught my eye while testing the 500M with my DTV box directly connected with an HDMI cable was that when changing channels right before the picture popped on was how the blacks would elevate and then drop and then elevate up a notch. The weird thing is if the level dropped and stayed I would be mighty impressed with the difference between the 111 and the 500., Anybody else notice this happeing?

Put in AVS HD 709 and the patterns for grayscale (0-30) on both at the same time... you should see a difference with the 500M.
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post #2873 of 6727
10/27/09 at 8:52pm
I had the PS3 settings at RGB - limited, and have the super white HDMI setting on, if thats what you're talking about. So that wasn't the cause of the problem
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post #2874 of 6727
10/28/09 at 4:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Put in AVS HD 709 and the patterns for grayscale (0-30) on both at the same time... you should see a difference with the 500M.

I'll try that this week. After seeing the 500M without the AVR in the loop I'm pretty sure the difference will be apparent. Turbe, any idea why the AVR would elevate the black level on the 500M? D-Nice made all the necessary changes during calibration so I don't think there is are any other setting to play with on the AVR or 500M.
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post #2875 of 6727
10/28/09 at 4:48am
Does the 500m have a pure mode? Thanks
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post #2876 of 6727
10/28/09 at 4:50am
Yes
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post #2877 of 6727
10/28/09 at 6:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by D3lusions03 View Post

When I go to "input setup" then change "video" from auto to RGB-16-235, any movies that I play on my PS3 have a magenta color to them.

You have a colorspace mismatch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the KRP FAQ View Post

Q. I set my input to Auto but when I select an HDMI source that uses RGB signals the picture looks washed out. Why?
a. There's a bug in the auto-detection code with RGB. You can force it to the video range (RGB 16-235) or change the source to use Y'CbCr. The problem is noted here and here among other places. A pithy response and a note from a non-native English speaker at Pioneer. For a more in-depth look at level matching and why things look too light, too dark or have color overlay etc. check out this lengthy explanation of levels. By the way, as mentioned in the PS3 question there can be shared port interactions.
...
Q. Speaking of Y'CbCr what are the right settings for my PS3?
a. The PS3 video FAQ discusses this at length but note the RGB bug above. In the Kuro community there is some disagreement. For video range inputs (television, DVD, BD) this should work. There is further commentary here. Note that mixing certain devices on the same port (5 or 6) via a switch or AVR may cause problems. Here's another specific example....
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post #2878 of 6727
10/28/09 at 6:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 440forpower View Post

Does the 500m have a pure mode? Thanks

The useful specifications of most 9G Pioneers can be found in the comparison thread tables.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the KRP FAQ View Post

Useful places:
...
The 9G Comparison thread.
...
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post #2879 of 6727
10/28/09 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

So bad back and all I decided to test my system without the AVR in the loop and whattya know the black levels dropped to an impressive level. So now I have to figure out why my much liked Denon 2807 is playing tricks.

Another thing that caught my eye while testing the 500M with my DTV box directly connected with an HDMI cable was that when changing channels right before the picture popped on was how the blacks would elevate and then drop and then elevate up a notch. The weird thing is if the level dropped and stayed I would be mighty impressed with the difference between the 111 and the 500., Anybody else notice this happeing?

Vid,

You are describing exactly what happens on my 500M, and I was wondering if this occurrence is isloated to the M Series. In a completely dark room, when I turn on the monitor with no signal, you can very easily tell the TV is turned on. In fact, it's as bright as my laptop's LCD backlight when the laptop displays a black screensaver. Then, when I input a signal, the screen gets much darker but you can still tell the monitor is on. When the image actually appears, it is hard to discern whether the screen brightens again or not.

I really don't remember this happening my first 2 weeks with the 500M. I don't think it was this bright when no signal was being fed to it. FYI, I have patched the 500M and am using ISF-Day with D-Nice's settings. Room Light Sensor is disabled. If this is consistent with everyone's 500M, then maybe it is not contaminating image quality.
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post #2880 of 6727
10/28/09 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scionracing View Post

Vid,

You are describing exactly what happens on my 500M, and I was wondering if this occurrence is isloated to the M Series. In a completely dark room, when I turn on the monitor with no signal, you can very easily tell the TV is turned on. In fact, it's as bright as my laptop's LCD backlight when the laptop displays a black screensaver. Then, when I input a signal, the screen gets much darker but you can still tell the monitor is on. When the image actually appears, it is hard to discern whether the screen brightens again or not.

I really don't remember this happening my first 2 weeks with the 500M. I don't think it was this bright when no signal was being fed to it. FYI, I have patched the 500M and am using ISF-Day with D-Nice's settings. Room Light Sensor is disabled. If this is consistent with everyone's 500M, then maybe it is not contaminating image quality.

The 500M/600/101FD/141FD are very different compared to the other Kuros. They require an acutal signal to get MLL. You cannot just switch to a blank input and expect to see the MLL.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Pt. II