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The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Pt. II - Page 103

post #3061 of 6727
11/4/09 at 4:12pm
I'll drop it because I'm tired of moving TVs around but no AVR and direct PS3 = no difference I can see. Movie time!
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post #3062 of 6727
11/4/09 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonW747 View Post

Wouldn't 16 be mapped to 0, and 235 mapped to 255, and everything else in between scaled?

That doesn't appear to be a common case. I've used three different sources and colorspace mismatches cause inconsistent results. I'm sure one could sort out what was going on but I lack the will. Since I don't play games I just go for consistent video levels except for my Apple TV which seems to have RGB-16 and RGB-0 reversed. I suppose that's consistent too -- just mislabeled.

What really irks me is having a Reon in my AVR with many of the controls unexposed. I could fix my ATV problem if I could fiddle the Reon colorspace controls.
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post #3063 of 6727
11/5/09 at 6:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisOneKidMongo View Post

Just when dialing in the picture settings for each input. My cable box (1080i) and Wii (480p) share the component input through my receiver, and my PS3 has an HDMI input to itself. I thought I'd just have to adjust settings once per input, so I couldn't understand why I had to adjust again for the Wii after I already did for the cable box. I figured the 500M was somehow able to detect a different source and wanted recalibration for that. But then when I had to calibrate the PS3 three different times--for the 1080p menu, a 720p game, and I think again for a 1080/24 movie--did I start to understand. I was concerned I had a faulty monitor before that.

Okay, I take it back. Now I'm confused again. When I fired up the Wii this morning, the picture settings were back to the default values and I had to adjust them again. What could possibly be causing this? The Wii only puts out 480p so it shouldn't be needing new picture settings. Anyone have any idea?
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post #3064 of 6727
11/5/09 at 6:50am
I apologize if this has already been clarified, but with so many arguments about color-mismatch, etc... I'm wondering what the optimal PS3/600m settings are as far as RGB full/limited, or whether to go the Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr option? Super white? What should I set on the 600m?

Thanks!
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post #3065 of 6727
11/5/09 at 7:57am
What is your 500m/600m input voltage range? 100 V AC to 240 V AC?
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post #3066 of 6727
11/5/09 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipi View Post

What is your 500m/600m input voltage range? 100 V AC to 240 V AC?

It's documented for 110V/60Hz. People have said it's has a universal power supply and works at 220V.
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post #3067 of 6727
11/5/09 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleeve View Post

I'm wondering what the optimal PS3/600m settings are ...

It depends. Did you search the thread for PS3?

According to the FAQ:
Quote:
Originally Posted by the KRP FAQ View Post

Q. Speaking of Y'CbCr what are the right settings for my PS3?
a. The PS3 video FAQ discusses this at length but note the RGB bug above. In the Kuro community there is some disagreement. For video range inputs (television, DVD, BD) this should work. There is further commentary here. Note that mixing certain devices on the same port (5 or 6) via a switch or AVR may cause problems. Here's another specific example. If you have a free DVI/HDMI port you can split the output of your AVR to two KRP ports and set one to AUTO and the other to RGB 16-235. This requires a powered splitter that supports HDMI 1.3. Vendors include Gefen, Monoprice and J&R Galaxies. Using two HDMI ports is simpler than one HDMI and the DVI port.
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post #3068 of 6727
11/5/09 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

That doesn't appear to be a common case. I've used three different sources and colorspace mismatches cause inconsistent results.

One of the issues is the fact that BTB and WTW over HDMI is not something every TV supports

There's a chart at the link below under the heading "The following is a summary of the RGB Full/Limited and Super White options on the PS3" that shows how the PS3 maps the color space in different situations.

6 different situations are described, but in the case that RGB is set to Full, and Super White is turned On, everything works out great; but of course you need a TV like the KRP that supports it.

http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html#PS3_Video

That article confirms what I've seen playing with my PS3, but it doesn't answer the question for all the other devices out there each with their own level of HDMI support and various bugs.
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post #3069 of 6727
11/5/09 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

It's documented for 110V/60Hz. People have said it's has a universal power supply and works at 220V.

Thanks, hope it will work.

Next week, my 500m is coming and i want to be sure if I need a voltage converter to 220v.
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post #3070 of 6727
11/5/09 at 11:35am
OK, I just found out about the KRP-500Ms yesterday! Well come on... somebody's got to arrive late to this party... right?

I currently have a Runco SP-50 DHD which I purchased 3 or 4 years ago. Wanted to upgrade to a monitor with native 1920x1080 resolution and 1080p for Blu-ray playback. First started to look at the Runco XP-OPAL50 DHD (but who really wants to spend that amount of money if they don't have to?) I'd always heard great things about the Kuro Elite series, so immediately looked into those waters too... only to find out about Pioneer's decision yada, yada, yada...

I studied the FAQ but still have a couple of questions if someone could be so kind to provide some feedback.

I'm looking to stay with 50 inch screen size. Don't watch cable or satellite. Basically a film guy with the sources being a Pioneer Blu-ray player and Apple iTV. Have a separate 5.1 audio system so looking for straight monitor.

That brings my focus to the PRO-101FD and KRP-500M.

101: 2 years warranty
500: 1 year warranty

101: 4 HDMIs
500: 2 HDMIs

101: ISFccc
500: ControlCAL ISFccc patch

So based on what I've read thus far the 101 would provide an additional year of warranty, and whatever the extra value might be of the panel having been hand selected with hours of factory break-in.

Questions...

Does the ControlCAL ISFccc patch provide the same parameters as the 101s built-in ISFccc -- so that a professional calibrator can achieve the same quality results when I have the monitor calibrated?

Is there an aesthetic difference between the 101 and 500? In other words, are they built with the same finish, bezel, stand etc.?

And anything else I should consider between these two models that I've missed?

Thanks for sticking with me if you're still reading this post. And I apologize if this specific inquiry has already been addressed somewhere in the depths of this discussion.

Cheers!
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post #3071 of 6727
11/5/09 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonW747 View Post

6 different situations are described

That's a useful collection of information. The most interesting bit in this context is the note that a possible bug prevents RGB full from being pass-through:

Quote:


When using HDMI Full RGB to play back video content (which will convert YCbCr content from disc or AVCHD to Full RGB), the Super White option has no effect (because this is not a YCbCr connection), but note that the 0-15 Blacker than Black (BTB) and 236-255 Super White (SW) content from the disc or AVCHD are ignored regardless. This may be a bug in firmware because what this means is that the only way to get BTB or SW content when playing back video from disc or AVCHD is to use YCbCr with Super White on.

I asked Oppo about this and they acknowledged that you might want RGB pass-through but they weren't going to be doing it. I suspect this is because they (and many other vendors) are constrained by their VP chip supplier. E.g the folks at IDT don't understand why you would want "Super-white" so it's hard to do with the Reon.
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post #3072 of 6727
11/5/09 at 11:45am
nm
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post #3073 of 6727
11/5/09 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpercy View Post

Does the ControlCAL ISFccc patch provide the same parameters as the 101s built-in ISFccc

Is there an aesthetic difference between the 101 and 500?

1) Yes.
2) The Signature bezel says Elite, the KRP bezel says Pioneer.

Everything else should be in the comparison thread.
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post #3074 of 6727
11/5/09 at 5:54pm
I'm close to buying a bd player to go with my krp. Has anyone noticed appreciable differences in PQ between blu-ray players on the 500m? I have seen what are to my eye subtle but important differences in comparison images from very large screens (110 in., etc.) posted in various player forums. Charles R, for instance, who posts most of these gave me his opinion that the pq differences shouldn't be a deciding factor between players for smaller screens, like 50s or 60s. I'm wondering if the 500m is wonderful enough to make up for some of the difference in size. Have any of you guys had the chance to compare different players on the 500m in particular, and noticed much of a difference? The Pioneer 320/23fd images look best to my eye in the very large-screen pics. I'm also considering the Oppo and PS3 Slim.

I saw one set of comparison images between the older ps3 and the oppo on a 500m posted in the Kuro pics thread, but I'm hoping to get some further opinions here before I pull the trigger on a player. Thanks in advance if anyone can help.
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post #3075 of 6727
11/5/09 at 6:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9_miles_up View Post

I saw one set of comparison images between the older ps3 and the oppo on a 500m posted in the Kuro pics thread, but I'm hoping to get some further opinions here before I pull the trigger on a player. Thanks in advance if anyone can help.

The consensus in the OPPO owner's thread is that there is very little difference between BD players if you are watching Blu-ray. The OPPO is considered by many to do a better job of converting SD DVDs than it's competition, regardless of price. It also has high quality analog outputs for both stereo and multi-channel. The best player for you really depends on how you're going to use it.

Using posted images isn't a reliable way to judge.
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post #3076 of 6727
11/5/09 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9_miles_up View Post

I'm close to buying a bd player to go with my krp. Has anyone noticed appreciable differences in PQ between blu-ray players on the 500m? I have seen what are to my eye subtle but important differences in comparison images from very large screens (110 in., etc.) posted in various player forums. Charles R, for instance, who posts most of these gave me his opinion that the pq differences shouldn't be a deciding factor between players for smaller screens, like 50s or 60s. I'm wondering if the 500m is wonderful enough to make up for some of the difference in size. Have any of you guys had the chance to compare different players on the 500m in particular, and noticed much of a difference? The Pioneer 320/23fd images look best to my eye in the very large-screen pics. I'm also considering the Oppo and PS3 Slim.

I saw one set of comparison images between the older ps3 and the oppo on a 500m posted in the Kuro pics thread, but I'm hoping to get some further opinions here before I pull the trigger on a player. Thanks in advance if anyone can help.

I have a PS3, Pioneer 320 and Oppo. There is next to no difference when it comes to Blu-Ray material, but I'd rate the Oppo best on regular DVD material by a noticeable difference, followed by the 320 and then the PS3. So I'd suggest the Oppo if you plan on watching a lot of DVDs.

Also, to really get down to the nitty-gritty, you should check out the Blu-Ray Player Synthetic and Real World Comparisons thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...535&highlight=

Lots of information there.
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post #3077 of 6727
11/5/09 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9_miles_up View Post

I'm close to buying a bd player to go with my krp. Has anyone noticed appreciable differences in PQ between blu-ray players on the 500m? I have seen what are to my eye subtle but important differences in comparison images from very large screens (110 in., etc.) posted in various player forums. Charles R, for instance, who posts most of these gave me his opinion that the pq differences shouldn't be a deciding factor between players for smaller screens, like 50s or 60s. I'm wondering if the 500m is wonderful enough to make up for some of the difference in size. Have any of you guys had the chance to compare different players on the 500m in particular, and noticed much of a difference? The Pioneer 320/23fd images look best to my eye in the very large-screen pics. I'm also considering the Oppo and PS3 Slim.

I saw one set of comparison images between the older ps3 and the oppo on a 500m posted in the Kuro pics thread, but I'm hoping to get some further opinions here before I pull the trigger on a player. Thanks in advance if anyone can help.



I'm currently using a ps3 and BDP-51FD and both are great. I use the bdp-51 more often because it bitstreams and the ps3 doesn't plus I like using all pioneer in my HT setup.

KRP-500M
elite sc-07
bdp-51fd


Hope this helps.
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post #3078 of 6727
11/5/09 at 7:13pm
Great comments, guys. Thanks.
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post #3079 of 6727
11/5/09 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9_miles_up View Post

... Have any of you guys had the chance to compare different players on the 500m in particular, and noticed much of a difference?

I saw no difference between two different BD players on BD video content (an 83 and a 550). A great many people would say that absent a defect you shouldn't see any difference in 1080p sources. Other people will tell you that your power cords will effect picture quality.

As an aside I have zero faith in the value of comparing any screen images posted on-line or published in typical media. There's a reason such images are always simulated in advertisements.
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post #3080 of 6727
11/5/09 at 8:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpercy View Post

OK, I just found out about the KRP-500Ms yesterday! Well come on... somebody's got to arrive late to this party... right?

I currently have a Runco SP-50 DHD which I purchased 3 or 4 years ago. Wanted to upgrade to a monitor with native 1920x1080 resolution and 1080p for Blu-ray playback. First started to look at the Runco XP-OPAL50 DHD (but who really wants to spend that amount of money if they don't have to?) I'd always heard great things about the Kuro Elite series, so immediately looked into those waters too... only to find out about Pioneer's decision yada, yada, yada...

I studied the FAQ but still have a couple of questions if someone could be so kind to provide some feedback.

I'm looking to stay with 50 inch screen size. Don't watch cable or satellite. Basically a film guy with the sources being a Pioneer Blu-ray player and Apple iTV. Have a separate 5.1 audio system so looking for straight monitor.

That brings my focus to the PRO-101FD and KRP-500M.

101: 2 years warranty
500: 1 year warranty

101: 4 HDMIs
500: 2 HDMIs

101: ISFccc
500: ControlCAL ISFccc patch

So based on what I've read thus far the 101 would provide an additional year of warranty, and whatever the extra value might be of the panel having been hand selected with hours of factory break-in.

Questions...

Does the ControlCAL ISFccc patch provide the same parameters as the 101s built-in ISFccc -- so that a professional calibrator can achieve the same quality results when I have the monitor calibrated?

Is there an aesthetic difference between the 101 and 500? In other words, are they built with the same finish, bezel, stand etc.?

And anything else I should consider between these two models that I've missed?

Thanks for sticking with me if you're still reading this post. And I apologize if this specific inquiry has already been addressed somewhere in the depths of this discussion.

Cheers!

I think pound for pound the 111, 101 and 500 are VERY similar in all respects and though there may be slight differences in the panels you listed the most significant difference outside of price is the need for the tuner, extra HDMI and/or open access to the ISF enhanced picture controls without having to go through additional steps not included initially with the panel.

If you are simply going to run 1 HDMI from your receiver and use the panel as a monitor only, then I think the 500 is a great value in comparison to the other panels you are considering IMHO.
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post #3081 of 6727
11/5/09 at 8:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I saw no difference between two different BD players on BD video content (an 83 and a 550). A great many people would say that absent a defect you shouldn't see any difference in 1080p sources. Other people will tell you that your power cords will effect picture quality.

As an aside I have zero faith in the value of comparing any screen images posted on-line or published in typical media. There's a reason such images are always simulated in advertisements.

I agree, I have the Oppo, Denon 2500, Pio 320 and the trusty old PS3 and the visual presentation of each in Bluray format is immeasurably different to the slightest degree, if any. I do prefer and use the Oppo the most because of the value it offers and the speed in which it offers it and have enjoyed it immensely, though the value of the slim PS3 is very enticing if I were to be purchasing anew.
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post #3082 of 6727
11/5/09 at 8:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by elite-home View Post

I do prefer and use the Oppo the most because of the value it offers and the speed in which it offers it and have enjoyed it immensely, though the value of the slim PS3 is very enticing if I were to be purchasing anew.

Yup, I hear you, there. It looks like it's the speed, gaming and hd streaming possibilities of the PS3 vs the better dvd playback of the 320/23fd, or especially the Oppo, given what you guys are reporting as negligible differences in bd playback on the 500m.
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post #3083 of 6727
11/6/09 at 4:17am
just here to report that 500M is getting better over time. it now looks 10 times better than when i first bought it. i have no clue how many hours i have on the set cause i can get the internet to work on it but i has to be at least 300. D-Nice's ISF settings look great but (and i dare to say) just a smidgeon better than his Pure settings. Maybe not a smidgeon but it isnt by far.i havent had the time to calibrate "in the dark" as i was told to do as yet either.but i will try cause i want the best from my set but as of now i am VERY satisfied. it just blows me away to think that the panel can show better than it already is.i am really comtemplating getting a 500M from VE because of the fact that it will be calibrated by D-Nice but cant seem to part with the extra cash right now. hopefully a panasonic that shows better than these Kuros come out within the next year so i can get one of those. yes, i said it, i am sorry for saying but that is how i feel right now since i am broke and wont be able to get a new panel until next year.
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post #3084 of 6727
11/6/09 at 4:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

just here to report that 500M is getting better over time. it now looks 10 times better than when i first bought it. i have no clue how many hours i have on the set cause i can get the internet to work on it but i has to be at least 300. D-Nice's ISF settings look great but (and i dare to say) just a smidgeon better than his Pure settings. Maybe not a smidgeon but it isnt by far.i havent had the time to calibrate "in the dark" as i was told to do as yet either.but i will try cause i want the best from my set but as of now i am VERY satisfied. it just blows me away to think that the panel can show better than it already is.i am really comtemplating getting a 500M from VE because of the fact that it will be calibrated by D-Nice but cant seem to part with the extra cash right now. hopefully a panasonic that shows better than these Kuros come out within the next year so i can get one of those. yes, i said it, i am sorry for saying but that is how i feel right now since i am broke and wont be able to get a new panel until next year.

Just be happy you got one - save the rest for those of us who are frantically saving and praying that they'll still be around long enough...

If you wanna sell your non D-Nice calibrated one, please let me know
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post #3085 of 6727
11/6/09 at 6:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

It depends. Did you search the thread for PS3?

According to the FAQ:

Thanks for that. Actually I did indeed already read that but that's part of my problem...

How do you know if you're being affected by having two or more devices going into an AVR and out into one input on the Kuro? I have a 360, a cable box, and my ps3 all going into my avr and then out into input 5 on my Kuro. So that means 360 should then NOT be set to RGB 'expanded'? And I have no clue what my cable box is outputting because it doesn't give me any options to look at what it's outputting or how to change it.

Also, that info you gave me kind of goes against what people were saying about RGB crushing blacks, no? Currently I'm using Y'CbCr for BD playback and RGB Full for games as far as I understand.
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post #3086 of 6727
11/6/09 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleeve View Post

Thanks for that. Actually I did indeed already read that but that's part of my problem...

How do you know if you're being affected by having two or more devices going into an AVR and out into one input on the Kuro?

Connect each device directly to the Kuro and find the correct colorspace. I'd expect the cable box to be one of the YUV versions. If any of them require RGB-video (RGB limited, RGB16-235 etc) rather than RGB-PC then you can't use auto due to the RGB bug. It seems that games on the Xbox may not all be encoded for the same level so if you select YCC (presumably the 709 flavor) some games may look too dark or too light depending on the black level (standard, intermediate or expanded).

Please note that I don't know anything about the Xbox but basic colorspace troubleshooting is always the same. Cycle through the options until you find one that looks right.

I'm assuming here that you're using HDMI rather than component or VGA.
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post #3087 of 6727
11/6/09 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipi View Post

Thanks, hope it will work.

Next week, my 500m is coming and i want to be sure if I need a voltage converter to 220v.

Don't worry, it will work. I live in Uruguay, a 220V country, I own a USA sourced 500m, labeled 110V/60Hz, and have it plugged at 220V/50Hz for the last three months now, no problems at all. All Kuros are 110 - 240V capable.
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post #3088 of 6727
11/6/09 at 8:23am
ahhhhhhhhh to bad i have to pay bills cuz now ill never own a Pioneer. fuuuuuuuuuuudgggeeeeee. Im so pissed that i have to possibly settle for a panny v10
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post #3089 of 6727
11/6/09 at 8:54am
are pioneer pannels and plasma tvs pal and ntsc
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post #3090 of 6727
11/6/09 at 10:13am
I am really excited to be getting the KRP-500M, especially with all the great reviews.

I plan on using D-nice's break in settings using DVD. Then reference settings following that.

Question: I am on a budget. What is a good blu-ray player that i can purchase other than a PS3?
How much difference does real expensive blu-ray really make?

Side note: I work in Post Production and my facility bought 7 KRP-500M's and they are holding their own against the 40,000 Sony BVM's(via LUT). They are being used to color correct Feature Film Dailies.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Pt. II