The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Pt. II - Page 186

We've been told the D-Nice settings are being used. Further unguided adjustments, particularly grayscale are a bad idea.

I can hear buzz, especially if I'm not on energy save 2, and also a high-pitched whine if I specifically listen for it or get up close to the plasma. But it's not really any different than the other half dozen plasmas I've owned. They all buzzed too. I have yet to have one that doesn't buzz at least somewhat. The character and intensity of the buzz is not always the same, but I've never had a totally silent PDP display.

I occasionally see phosphor trails too. Both are minor enough to not want to get rid of the monitor, because I have seen phosphor trails on other plasmas too. I don't game--I see the phosphor lag on regular content.

Here is one test clip I use to test plasmas for phosphor lag:

60vs24.avi
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=lcqkva0k

The clip is designed to demonstrate the benefits of 60 fps vs 24 fps, but the ball rapidly moving back and forth from side to side is an easy way to see yellowish-green phosphor lag.

I can't imagine anyone not being able to see phosphor lag on their plasma after watching this clip.

You can't miss it

This is the most common response to Kuro Pure mode when moving from uncalibrated display.


1) Use the S&M benchmark disc and their tutorials to adjust your set. Note that you'll want to turn color down 3-5 when using BOM due to a bug.
2) After adjusting your display watch quality (HD) material from a subdued palete (think Sunshine Cleaning rather than Transformers II) in low light for a month. Do not compare the image to any other display. Then revisit your old display.

Some people prefer a blue shifted white point but most people are just used to it since most displays run around 10,000K rather than 6,500K.

I received a warranty BRAND NEW replacement 500M from Pioneer due to an unrepairable issue with my 6 month old set, but I'm growing more and more weary of the replacement set.

My last set was pixel perfect and barely buzzed.

The new set was initially pixel perfect, but I noticed a dead or stuck pixel only 5 hours into break-in. I'm not to happy about it as it's right in the middle of the screen.

What differentiates between a dead and stuck pixel? The pixel is definitely black on blue screens, looks yellow on white screens, but I can't see it on red/green screens. I think it looks yellow on some other colors too, but I'm not too sure. It's obviously the worst on dark blue, as I can stand about five feet back and clearly see the black pixel.

Also, it seems this new set buzzes a lot more than my old set. With my old set, I could stand one foot in front of it and not hear it. With the new set, I need to back up at least five feet.

Should I be worried about this set? Should I demand a pixel perfect set from Pioneer?

I'm about half way through the break-in, so I was hoping to make it through the break in and evaluate the set during normal viewing. I'd also like to see if I can get that pixel to function properly again.

My KRP doesn't really buzz, but when I got it there were a bunch of terrible green pixels that showed up in blue skies. Post-breakin they disappeared. When I was breaking in I did 12 hours on slides (120 slide set) and 3-4 hours rest in between to let it "cool down". Since there's some PQ issues that haven't resolved themselves yet, I would not watch it at all until you've finished the breakin process.

It sounds like a dead (always off) blue sub-pixel. Yellow is R+G, so when you display white (R+G+B), you get yellow (R+G+"-") instead.

I haven't watched any content on it and don't plan to until the break in is done.

I'm a bit OCD, so I watched the color slide for the first 20 minutes looking for dead/stuck pixels and found none out of the box. About 5 hours into the break-in I got home from grabbing a bite to eat and found the stuck off blue sub-pixel.

Are you saying you started watching normal content and then they went away?

As far as the buzzing goes, I'm going to have to evaluate that when break-in is over. My last set, you could BARELY hear the buzzing during break-in standing with your head one foot from the screen. I'd consider that buzz perfect.

With my new set, I can hear the buzz a few feet away at least, but haven't gotten to critical yet since it's breaking in.

After reading up on the matter, I figured that's what I had.

After waiting over two months to get my replacement from Pioneer, I'm pretty bummed out now. I just hope this isn't a sign of things to come with this set assuming I decide to keep it and not give Pioneer hell.

FWIW, this set is the same month/year manufactured as my old set. January 2009.

No, I'm saying I tossed in a few BR's quick to make sure the set worked, saw the problem (didn't watch the whole things), tossed on the breakin slides and let it do its work. I don't remember if I checked back between then and breakin finishing but it was def. gone by the time breakin was done.

D-Nice is coming to apply patch and calibrate my 600m on 4/24. Anyone in central Virginia area interested should contact him his email is audiovideofidelity@gmail.com

He will calibrate isf day, night, auto, and one other additional video mode of my choice. I am looking for some suggestions on the video mode of my choice. I will of course discuss with d-nice during calibration, but I just wanted to get some suggestions and feedback from others.

Anyone use Auto? How well do you find it works? If isf day is set up for bright light conditions and isf nite is set up for low light conditions and auto will vary between these two based on room light, this would seem to cover most any need for any accurate picture in any conditions.

It seems from what I have read many choice to calibrate pure. I have read many describe calibrated pure and isf night are very close to the same, so I am wondering if another option would be better. Some have a mode calibrated at 5400k for black and white. I really don't watch many older black and white programing to get a benefit out of that.

Does anyone have any other video modes calibrated for unique programming or conditions?

Thanks,
Barry

D-Nice calibrated my set with ISF Day, ISF Night, ISF Auto, and a Game mode. I mostly use ISF Day for watching tv and blu-ray's (I really like the bump up in brightness). ISF Night is still impressive for late night blu-ray watching (or if you watch in a dark room). He did an amazing job on this mode and it has really brought back the "pop" in my games that was missing with my older uncalibrated Kuro (5080). I am still in awe every time I play a game or watch a blu-ray. Money very well spent .

If you don't play games, you could go with a Pure mode (as you suggested), sports mode, or black and white mode setting (I was offered all three of those but chose the Game mode). If you aren't sure, just go with the Pure. Either way, you will be blown away when he leaves. Guaranteed .

I don't play video games, but thanks for the suggestion. I watch mostly HD TV shows (24 and Sparticas are my two favorites), I enjoy most sports programming, and of course bluray movies. I was thinking maybe a mode optimized for sports.

I do watch in both well lite and dim light conditions.

Thanks,
Barry

Honestly, if you like sports, I would have him calibrate a mode for that then. ISF Day/Night will be plenty for the rest of your viewing needs. D-Nice is very thorough and patient. I think I asked him a hundred questions but he was very patient and explained everything he was going to do along with suggestions based on my room layout.

Thanks for the input. I am looking forward to D-nice's visit and having my 600m being "all it can be"

Barry

Hello Guys,

Since some of you had asked for my KRP500m's calibration results, here they are. An EyeOne LT sensor was used, and I am very happy with the results. D-Nice's reference setting has way too much red on MY panel, that actually was the motivation for me to buy the sensor and calibrate the panel myself. Everyone who saw the panel agreed with me in term of red push before calibration, and my lowly EyeOne just happened to agree with our eyes as well. Since post calibration results were very satisfactory to everyone in the family, I had to come to the conclusion that the EyeOne had done a pretty good job.

One more thought I would like to share with you guys is that, IMHO, a well calibrated USER mode is very very very close to ISF-Day. Yes, gamma and RGB curves from ISF-day are slightly better than USER, but for all practical purposes, regular human's eyes (at least all the eyes in my household) could not tell the difference.

Finally, I would like to thank jdbimmer and xsiv4ce for their wonderful softwares - KuroReader and KuroControl. These two free softwares work great and really help our KRP owners to get the most out of these panels by ourselves. Your hard work is greatly appreciated!


Dong99


Picture
AV Selection: Pure
Contrast : 36
Brightness : 0
Color : 5
Tint : 0
Sharpness : -15
Color Temp : Manual
Red High : -19
Green High : 0
Blue High : 5
Red Low : -1
Green Low : 0
Blue Low : -1
Gamma : 3

Pure Cinema
Film Mode : Off
Text Optimization: Off

Intelligent Mode: Off

Picture Detail
DRE Picture : Off
Black Level : Off
ACL : Off
Enhancer Mode: Hard

Color Detail
CTI: Off
Color Management
R (RED) : 0
Y (YELLOW) : 0
G (GREEN) : 0
C (CYAN) : 0
B (BLUE) : 0
M (MAGENTA): 0
Color Space : 2

Pure Mode Gamma:


Pure Mode RGB:





Picture
AV Selection: ISF-Day
Contrast : 38
Brightness : 0
Color : 5
Tint : 0
Sharpness : -15
Color Temp : Manual
Red High : -12
Green High : 0
Blue High : 7
Red Low : -10
Green Low : 1
Blue Low : -1
Gamma : 3 (ISF 9 Point Gamma in use)
ISF Gamma

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9 Red :

2

1

0

0

0

0

-1

-1

-1 Green :

0

0

-1

-1

-1

-1

-1

-1

-1 Blue :

0

0

-1

-1

-1

-1

-1

-1

-1 ISF Gamma 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Red 2 1 0 0 0 0 -1 -1 -1 Green 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 Blue 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 Pure Cinema Film Mode : Off Text Optimization: Off Intelligent Mode: Off Picture Detail DRE Picture : Off Black Level : Off ACL : Off Enhancer Mode: Hard Color Detail CTI: Off Color Management R (RED) : 0 Y (YELLOW) : 2 G (GREEN) : -1 C (CYAN) : -1 B (BLUE) : 0 M (MAGENTA): 0 Color Space : 2 ISF-Day Gamma: ISF-Day RGB: Picture AV Selection: User Contrast : 34 Brightness : 0 Color : 5 Tint : 0 Sharpness : -15 Color Temp : Manual Red High : -12 Green High : 6 Blue High : 11 Red Low : 6 Green Low : 10 Blue Low : 8 Gamma : 2 Pure Cinema Film Mode : Advance Text Optimization: Off Intelligent Mode: Off Picture Detail DRE Picture : Off Black Level : Off ACL : Off Enhancer Mode: Hard Color Detail CTI: Off Color Management R (RED) : 0 Y (YELLOW) : 2 G (GREEN) : -1 C (CYAN) : -1 B (BLUE) : 0 M (MAGENTA): 0 Color Space : 2 User Mode Gamma: User Mode RGB:

Watch the second episode of Planet Earth (Mountains), and watch carefully around 23:00. It gets even much worse around 23:15. As the camera pans horizontally from the air, those crevices in the earth or whatever they are called look just awful. They are a blurry mess.

With Pure Cinema set to "smooth" it looks just that -- very smooth. So there is definitely some FI going on when you select smooth. However, like you said, most of the time the FI is not very aggressive at all, and you can hardly tell it is doing anything. But on a few occasions the algorithm gets overly aggressive and looks strange.

I like Samsung's AMP much better. I wish all plasmas came with a good implementation of MCFI like Samsung's AMP.

It goes beyond that. There's apparently a fair likelihood of consistency between panels from the same batch, but outside of that - all bets are off.

My 500M had way too much red out of the box too. It was not just a function of me being used to an overly cool picture. Some 500M's just come out of the box too reddish.

belfert: You can go into the Picture settings, and choose Color Temp: Manual, and then where it says White Balance you can cut the red high and/or red low to negative figures (default = 0) to dial down some of the excess red.

Mine was plus red too much as well, and I had to dial it back double digits, like you. Mine is a Mar 2009 build.

There's something about your post that make the images invisible (FF) or fail to render (Safari/Chrome) in my browsers.

My 500M is an April 2009 build and D-nice settings seem just about perfect. Although I don't own any calibration tools, skin tones look very natural and the entire picture has the "thru the window" 3D look to it.

Try FireFox if you use a Mac or FireFox / IE if you are on Windows.

Hope other people saw the images fine. Otherwise, please let me know.

Dong99

Side by side simultaneous comparison isn't the quite the same as being acclimated to an uncalibrated image.

Given a (small) set of facts I tend toward the simplest solution. I don't think that includes trying to adjust grayscale by eye.

Yeah, following what bodosom said, I don't exactly recall if mine looked reddish. It might have, but if it did it "broke-out" of it in the course of normal viewing.

All 2nd Gen 50" Kuros have a color temp of 6K to 6100K when to the Low color temp. That will yield a reddish cast on video content. Unless one likes to follow the "only subtract from the picture, never add" ideology of calibration, you should never have to make double digit adjustments on these displays.... especially on both the high and low controls.

Pioneer states that a certain amount of dead or stuck pixels are acceptable, and the location of them is also considered. But just one being bad even though it's in the center of the screen, is very likely not going to change their mind. So even if you demand a pixel perfect set, Pioneer probably will refuse to give you another set.

does anyone know the reference point of adjustment for sharpness when it starts adding lines to the image? my research has led me to -4, but id still like to see if anyone has played around with this. thanks

My 500M was calibrated by D-Nice in day, night, auto and pure and I have been extremely happy with the results. The ISF auto seems to work well, but the night is what I usually use sine 90% of my viewing is at night and I love the pq it provides. I have found that the day setting is very good for sports, provides more pop, the Masters was awesome with day.

I think D-Nice can choose how bright to make your day setting, mine is 56ft/l, which really adds some pop for brighter conditions. I am interested to hear an after action report!

While it is very understandable to be annoyed at this, if you can't see it at all from normal viewing distance but only from 5ft or closer, maybe you will be ok.

Please explain what "adding lines" means?


thx

bob