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**The Official Seaton Sound Speaker Thread** - Page 8

post #211 of 640
10/29/09 at 11:36am
I am planning on these exclusively for HT. I have a separate 2 channel system for music. A list of owners willing to demo their systems would be nice. I'll spring for dinner....
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post #212 of 640
10/29/09 at 2:50pm
I'm debating between 3 catalysts and 2 sparks for surrounds vs. 5 catalyst system. If I went with the spark mix when I build a larget HT I could use them for surround rear speakers and get another pair of catalysts for surround L/R if I need to step up.

For a 2300 cubic ft. room would the catalyst/spark combo be optimal? I use a Genelec 7073A sub to complete the set although I also have 2 SVS subs gathering dust....
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post #213 of 640
10/29/09 at 3:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN View Post

I'm debating between 3 catalysts and 2 sparks for surrounds vs. 5 catalyst system. If I went with the spark mix when I build a larget HT I could use them for surround rear speakers and get another pair of catalysts for surround L/R if I need to step up.

For a 2300 cubic ft. room would the catalyst/spark combo be optimal? I use a Genelec 7073A sub to complete the set although I also have 2 SVS subs gathering dust....


Hi Dave,

I believe there are a couple of people in the South currently building Seaton systems but they are likely still in process. Ultimately it's up to the individuals as to whether they will host GTG's. I myself am still in the process of building my Seaton system. When it's complete, I have agreed to host several people for sessions. You would be welcome to come up also but this involves either a long drive or a flight for you.

IMO, your idea of starting with 3 Catalysts and 2 Sparks is a good one. The Sparks are superb and are capable of great output. You could always use them as serious surrounds down the road if you choose to go for 5 Catalysts. I'm absolutely certain the 3-2 setup would be much more than enough for a 2300 cf. room. 5 Cats in that room would be terrifying. Is the room treated?

Chris
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post #214 of 640
10/29/09 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudda View Post

Hi Dave,

I believe there are a couple of people in the South currently building Seaton systems but they are likely still in process. Ultimately it's up to the individuals as to whether they will host GTG's. I myself am still in the process of building my Seaton system. When it's complete, I have agreed to host several people for sessions. You would be welcome to come up also but this involves either a long drive or a flight for you.

IMO, your idea of starting with 3 Catalysts and 2 Sparks is a good one. The Sparks are superb and are capable of great output. You could always use them as serious surrounds down the road if you choose to go for 5 Catalysts. I'm absolutely certain the 3-2 setup would be much more than enough for a 2300 cf. room. 5 Cats in that room would be terrifying. Is the room treated?

Chris

Chris,

I'm curious. Did you hear the speakers prior to purchase?

My room is not well treated. I'm using a NeptuneEQ and it is amazing. www.neptuneaudio.net
I'm in the process of improving the room but my recent amp failure has gotten me thinking about a speaker upgrade also.

Thanks for the invite. I may be flying or else taking a leap of faith...

Dave
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post #215 of 640
10/29/09 at 3:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN View Post

Chris,

I'm curious. Did you hear the speakers prior to purchase?

My room is not well treated. I'm using a NeptuneEQ and it is amazing. www.neptuneaudio.net
I'm in the process of improving the room but my recent amp failure has gotten me thinking about a speaker upgrade also.

Thanks for the invite. I may be flying or else taking a leap of faith...

Dave


Nope, I flew blind which I never do. After lots of research and some discussions with Mark I went for it. Of course I had already purchased a SubMersive so I knew what kind of quality Seaton products were.

I have been extremely happy with the Sparks and the SubMersive so far. My Cats are still being made but I know they will be even better than the Sparks. Check out GIK acousitics for room treatments. They are not too far from you.

Chris
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post #216 of 640
10/29/09 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN View Post

I'm debating between 3 catalysts and 2 sparks for surrounds vs. 5 catalyst system. If I went with the spark mix when I build a larget HT I could use them for surround rear speakers and get another pair of catalysts for surround L/R if I need to step up.

For a 2300 cubic ft. room would the catalyst/spark combo be optimal? I use a Genelec 7073A sub to complete the set although I also have 2 SVS subs gathering dust....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudda View Post

Hi Dave,

I believe there are a couple of people in the South currently building Seaton systems but they are likely still in process. Ultimately it's up to the individuals as to whether they will host GTG's. I myself am still in the process of building my Seaton system. When it's complete, I have agreed to host several people for sessions. You would be welcome to come up also but this involves either a long drive or a flight for you.

IMO, your idea of starting with 3 Catalysts and 2 Sparks is a good one. The Sparks are superb and are capable of great output. You could always use them as serious surrounds down the road if you choose to go for 5 Catalysts. I'm absolutely certain the 3-2 setup would be much more than enough for a 2300 cf. room. 5 Cats in that room would be terrifying. Is the room treated?

Chris

I'm one of the southerners building a theater....but I'm not quite there yet. I'm looking at probably several more months before the theater is close to completion.

I bugged Mark for a while before finally going with an all Seaton Sound setup!

I went for 3 Catalysts for LCR and 4 Sparks for surround duties. I'm waiting on dual Terraform XLs for primary bass duties.

I'm definitely planning on having some GtGs as soon as feasibly possible....and hopefully have Mark at one of them. If nothing else, I'd love his input on tuning my system.
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post #217 of 640
10/29/09 at 9:15pm
I can not image buying $10,000 worth of L/C/R never having heard them first. Speaker preference is so subjective and that kind of money is not easy to come by for me. Not to mention that how a speaker couples to the room is a significant factor in sound as well. I have heard speakers that were many thousands for a set that made noise that I have never heard from a live performance and had people gush over them.

Perhaps I should not be shopping in the "if you ask you can not afford it" lingerie section.
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post #218 of 640
10/30/09 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by video_bit_bucket View Post

I can not image buying $10,000 worth of L/C/R never having heard them first. Speaker preference is so subjective and that kind of money is not easy to come by for me. Not to mention that how a speaker couples to the room is a significant factor in sound as well. I have heard speakers that were many thousands for a set that made noise that I have never heard from a live performance and had people gush over them.

Perhaps I should not be shopping in the "if you ask you can not afford it" lingerie section.

I agree with you in theory and practice. I have heard every major speaker I have purchased (with the exception of a few subwoofers) prior to purchasing them. But as you point out, hearing speakers in the demo room of a dealer or in someone's home will not tell you how they will sound in your room with your equipment. There are so many variables that it is virtually impossible to predetermine sound of speakers in your home. Ultimately, it comes down to a matter of taste.

Mark has built some very high performance loudspeakers that will provide close to if not the best sound available in-room for HT applications. While not inexpensive, from an audiophile perspective they are mid-market priced.

So you may be correct in saying you are shopping in the wrong aisle.
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post #219 of 640
10/30/09 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I agree with you in theory and practice. I have heard every major speaker I have purchased (with the exception of a few subwoofers) prior to purchasing them. But as you point out, hearing speakers in the demo room of a dealer or in someone's home will not tell you how they will sound in your room with your equipment. There are so many variables that it is virtually impossible to predetermine sound of speakers in your home. Ultimately, it comes down to a matter of taste.

Mark has built some very high performance loudspeakers that will provide close to if not the best sound available in-room for HT applications. While not inexpensive, from an audiophile perspective they are mid-market priced.

So you may be correct in saying you are shopping in the wrong aisle.

Not living in the US makes it near impossible to audition these or any other speakers that do not get imported to our country and show up in our retail stores.
That is where these types of forums and discussions are virtually the only way that we outside the US hear about Seaton, JTR & Danley etc. We certainly don't hear about these in our A/V magazines etc, so all that we have to rely on is the people in these forums having GTG's, making comments, doing reviews and comparing them to other speakers that we may have seen or heard before.
Seaton speakers aren't run of the mill commercial type speakers that we sometimes pay silly amounts of money for in retail stores, so when we walk into a store to audition some speakers we can't expect to see these sort of products.
Having said that I'm sure there are plenty of proud owners of Seaton products scattered around the US that would be willing to audition them for anybody thinking about purchasing them.
I am one that hasn't heard or even seen a Seaton speaker in the flesh but I am 100% confident that these will be maybe my last speaker purchase ever.
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post #220 of 640
11/6/09 at 9:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by crabra View Post

........but I am 100% confident that these will be maybe my last speaker purchase ever.

Oh if I had a nickel for every time I've seen that phrase on this forum. No offense Seaton owners and soon to be, but this is just a little over the top.

What happens when the Catalyst II becomes available, - you'll skip it and keep your originals after everyone gushes over how much better it is over the original one, eh?
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post #221 of 640
11/6/09 at 10:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

Oh if I had a nickel for every time I've seen that phrase on this forum. No offense Seaton owners and soon to be, but this is just a little over the top.

What happens when the Catalyst II becomes available, - you'll skip it and keep your originals after everyone gushes over how much better it is over the original one, eh?


I agree that I would not limit myself forever and always against an upgrade. On the other hand, Mark has stated he doesn't have plans for a Catalyst 2/XL/whatever. I strongly suspect if or when an upgrade does come along it will be evolutionary rather than revolutionary. The basics of speaker design, i.e. drivers, enclosures haven't really changed all that much for years now. Sure there has been progress with DSP and Class D amplification but those are already incorporated into the current Seaton lineup.

It seems to me the biggest changes will come from processing and room correction programs. Want the latest features? Go get the new whiz-bang pre/pro. The Sparks and Cats are already so well designed and implemented it hardly seems possible to make a radically better loudspeaker. The one thing I could see happening (although I doubt it) would be if most other manufacturers catch on to the "good design" seen in Seaton's, JBL Pro, Danley's which would theoretically bring the prices down across the board for top choices. Economies of scale and all that...

Cosmetic improvements for these "pro" models would also be a welcome change and this is happening already with JTR and Seaton.

Chris
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post #222 of 640
11/8/09 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

Oh if I had a nickel for every time I've seen that phrase on this forum. No offense Seaton owners and soon to be, but this is just a little over the top.

What happens when the Catalyst II becomes available, - you'll skip it and keep your originals after everyone gushes over how much better it is over the original one, eh?


You don't know my financial position or any others on here for that matter, if you must know I don't earn big six figure incomes every year so for me I might never be able to afford another purchase like this EVER. Also remember I live in Australia so you can add another 20-30% in USD to the cost of the Seaton products that you pay in the US.
This type of purchase for me cost wise is a big commitment and is not taken lightly and I wouldn't see myself doing it again in the near future.
But I guess never say never there is always the Lottery.
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post #223 of 640
11/9/09 at 4:00pm
anyone gotten their Seaton speakers lately?
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post #224 of 640
11/10/09 at 11:25am
What connections does the Seaton Submersive use? I can not seem to find it.
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post #225 of 640
11/10/09 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilsonL View Post

anyone gotten their Seaton speakers lately?

I got my Spark order last week, though I had to wait about 2 months for that. I am international though, so it took Mark longer to sort paperwork out.
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post #226 of 640
11/10/09 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimp Daddy View Post

What connections does the Seaton Submersive use? I can not seem to find it.

Per Seaton Sound Discussion Forum:
Link

"Isolated balanced input eliminating common ground loop problems"
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post #227 of 640
11/10/09 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimp Daddy View Post

What connections does the Seaton Submersive use? I can not seem to find it.

Hi GD',

All of our amplifiers have an XLR input with looping output, meaning you can pass the signal on to say another subwoofer. With the SubMersive I include a short XLR-RCA adapter to allow immediate hook up, and can now supply the TecNec cables sold by Markertek I generally recommend if desired, or you can order them directly.

For those connecting to an RCA output processor or receiver, over time we've found the preferred connection to be an XLR M-F cable for the full length to the subwoofer, with a short 1.5-3' XLR-M to RCA-M adapter plugging into the receiver or processor. This gives you the benefit of a balanced cable running the length and if you ever upgrade to a pre-pro with XLR outputs, you simply remove the adapter. This is an especially good idea if you are installing wires in walls and have any remote possibility of upgrading down the road.

Many systems can and currently do work just fine with an RCA run to the subwoofer and the adapter at the input, and this is what is done if the subwoofer wire is already in the wall or similar. The connection with the XLR running the length just leaves a few less opportunities for issues to creep in. One comforting thing to know is that with the SubMersive, some very simple wiring changes can eliminate any ground loop problem without having to use cheater plugs. At the very most this would require cutting the ground pin on 1 of the 2 XLR connectors (not both), and this is where the screw on boot of the Neutrik connectors makes life much easier. Cheater plugs can be handy to confirm the source/cause of a problem, but are not a preferred solution.
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post #228 of 640
11/10/09 at 4:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilsonL View Post

anyone gotten their Seaton speakers lately?

I have 2 Catalysts on the way, going to try doing a phantom center. Sorry crabra I think those two Catalysts in the picture over on the Seaton Sound website were mine ;|. It's pretty funny though, we both have no doubt been eagerly awaiting our Catalysts so much that we spot them in the back of the warehouse!

You can pretty much ignore my impressions because I'm coming from some super old Sony Floorstanders. I'm bound to be jumping for joy regardless .
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post #229 of 640
11/10/09 at 4:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilsonL View Post

anyone gotten their Seaton speakers lately?

Sparks were delayed much more so than expected, and Catalysts were running slightly behind, but we almost have the cabinet supplier who does our veneered SubMersives set up for the Catalysts, after which time lead times will remain much more reasonable while also adding the finish options of the SubMersive.

SubMersives are heading out as fast as parts come in, but by mid-late next week we might even have a few SubMersives built and tested BEFORE they are spoken for (I think that might be a first in 3+ years!).
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post #230 of 640
11/12/09 at 7:51am
Mark, I've been experimenting a bit with the placement of my Catalysts and filter settings on my pre-pro.

From your description with the coaxials at ear-level there is a 2dB peak around 5500Hz. Many people who use these speakers in a clasical stereo setup (not behind an AT screen) will have the coaxials at ear level.

One of my colleagues owns several pairs of Quad ESL-63's (pro- and regular versions). All are 20+ years old and in very good shape. Needless to say they sounded awesome! (for stereo)

We listened to a lot of setups, even with ionophones. What amazed me is that these loudspeakers reveal staggering amounts of detail while dropping off 2db at around 5kHz (!!) and linearly drop off further to -6dB at 20kHz.

The standard Catalyst has a much more flat frequency response, and depending on loudspeaker placement a 2dB boost (!!) at 5,5kHz. After some experimentation with filters I noticed that this boost is very noticable as 'brightness' and with certain recordings can easily become fatiguing.

With my TAG I tried to emulate the frequency response of the Quad's using "High Shelf" filters at 5kHz (-2dB), 8kHz (-1dB), 11kHz (-1dB), 14kHz (-1dB), 17kHz (-1dB) and 20kHz (-1dB). This adjustment made the Catalysts sound a lot more forgiving, although maybe a bit too much for less bright recordings. Also, I'm pretty sure, the phase response is degraded by using this extra EQ.

The Catalyst amp has 2 DSP settings, so (for me) ideally it could contain one setting for the intended placement behind an AT screen and another one where it is placed in a more stereo minded setup. Maybe with a little less steep drop off and some reduction of the 2dB boost at 5,5kHz.

Mark, is something like this feasible?
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post #231 of 640
11/12/09 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

Mark, I've been experimenting a bit with the placement of my Catalysts and filter settings on my pre-pro.

From your description with the coaxials at ear-level there is a 2dB peak around 5500Hz. Many people who use these speakers in a clasical stereo setup (not behind an AT screen) will have the coaxials at ear level.

One of my colleagues owns several pairs of Quad ESL-63's (pro- and regular versions). All are 20+ years old and in very good shape. Needless to say they sounded awesome! (for stereo)

We listened to a lot of setups, even with ionophones. What amazed me is that these loudspeakers reveal staggering amounts of detail while dropping off 2db at around 5kHz (!!) and linearly drop off further to -6dB at 20kHz.

The standard Catalyst has a much more flat frequency response, and depending on loudspeaker placement a 2dB boost (!!) at 5,5kHz. After some experimentation with filters I noticed that this boost is very noticable as 'brightness' and with certain recordings can easily become fatiguing.

With my TAG I tried to emulate the frequency response of the Quad's using "High Shelf" filters at 5kHz (-2dB), 8kHz (-1dB), 11kHz (-1dB), 14kHz (-1dB), 17kHz (-1dB) and 20kHz (-1dB). This adjustment made the Catalysts sound a lot more forgiving, although maybe a bit too much for less bright recordings. Also, I'm pretty sure, the phase response is degraded by using this extra EQ.

The Catalyst amp has 2 DSP settings, so (for me) ideally it could contain one setting for the intended placement behind an AT screen and another one where it is placed in a more stereo minded setup. Maybe with a little less steep drop off and some reduction of the 2dB boost at 5,5kHz.

Mark, is something like this feasible?

Ettepet, that's similar to what I'm experiencing with my Spark. I've heard people mention that the Spark and Catalyst have a very similar voicing. I also quite often hear a sharpness that can be fatiguing. It's a "nails in the ears" feeling. There's a slight "sheen" or hardness to many voices that is detectable.

I've tested using a variety of sources -- CDs, digital TV shows, DVDs, and blu-rays. My pre-pro is an Anthem AVM-2. I have a basement home theater. There is no special acoustic treatment, but the floor is carpeted and there are a lot of furnishings. Like you, I have the Spark more or less at ear level, without an acoustic screen.

None of my previous speakers exhibit this overly sharp-sounding behavior. I second Ettepet's request for Mark to load an alternate DSP program in the amps for us with more conventional setups. To load this program for existing owners, I imagine removing the amp and sending that away would be an easy task.

Ettepet, you should consider posting to Mark's forum too in case he doesn't peruse this forum.
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post #232 of 640
11/13/09 at 6:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqn View Post

Ettepet, that's similar to what I'm experiencing with my Spark. I've heard people mention that the Spark and Catalyst have a very similar voicing. I also quite often hear a sharpness that can be fatiguing. It's a "nails in the ears" feeling. There's a slight "sheen" or hardness to many voices that is detectable.

I've tested using a variety of sources -- CDs, digital TV shows, DVDs, and blu-rays. My pre-pro is an Anthem AVM-2. I have a basement home theater. There is no special acoustic treatment, but the floor is carpeted and there are a lot of furnishings. Like you, I have the Spark more or less at ear level, without an acoustic screen.

None of my previous speakers exhibit this overly sharp-sounding behavior. I second Ettepet's request for Mark to load an alternate DSP program in the amps for us with more conventional setups. To load this program for existing owners, I imagine removing the amp and sending that away would be an easy task.

Ettepet, you should consider posting to Mark's forum too in case he doesn't peruse this forum.

I was merely aiming at a possible future implementation for production units. But if a suitable solution is feasible and the second DSP setting is available for this an upgrade would be way cool.

tqn, in your case I would also look for some simple room treatment measures and/or EQ using the Anthem.
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post #233 of 640
11/13/09 at 8:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

I was merely aiming at a possible future implementation for production units. But if a suitable solution is feasible and the second DSP setting is available for this an upgrade would be way cool.

tqn, in your case I would also look for some simple room treatment measures and/or EQ using the Anthem.

Unfortunately my Anthem model predates built-in EQ. I will consider acoustic treatments though, if I can make them look decent in the room.
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post #234 of 640
11/21/09 at 11:51pm
Finally setup 2 Catalysts in my system as a phantom center.

Mark...

/slowclap

well done sir...well done.
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post #235 of 640
1/5/10 at 12:19pm
Does anyone have a Frequency Response chart of catalysts?
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post #236 of 640
1/5/10 at 12:55pm
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post #237 of 640
1/5/10 at 12:57pm
more info there: http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post?id=3044980
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post #238 of 640
1/16/10 at 10:05am
Hudda, Did you get your catalysts yet? Does anyone in Michigan have any Seaton speakers or subs? I would love to hear them.
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post #239 of 640
1/16/10 at 12:18pm
I would Email Art he has them.
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post #240 of 640
1/16/10 at 4:49pm
who is art, and where does he live?
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