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Anyone build Wayne Parham's Pi-4 speakers? Impressions? - Page 5

post #121 of 170
8/29/10 at 5:23pm
great job, I would almost feel bad hiding them behind a screen.
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post #122 of 170
8/29/10 at 5:45pm
So how do they sound, I am guessing you at least plugged them in to see how they sounded before hanging them
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post #123 of 170
8/29/10 at 6:13pm
BigmouthinDC, nice looking job. As others have said, how do they sound?
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post #124 of 170
8/29/10 at 7:49pm
Wow! Those look fantastic! I love how smooth and clean they look. I'll have to get the details from you on how you got the 290's to look so flat black like that and not so shiney like they come originally.

I am VERY interested in your opinion's on SQ with these.

Great work.
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post #125 of 170
8/29/10 at 8:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Wow! Those look fantastic! I love how smooth and clean they look. I'll have to get the details from you on how you got the 290's to look so flat black like that and not so shiny like they come originally.

I am VERY interested in your opinion's on SQ with these.

Great work.

Scott, I rubbed them with goof off then gave a coat of Krylon ultra mat black, Also painted the rims on the 2226Hs. Many more details in my thread on Wayne's section of Audio Roundtable.

As for my thoughts on SQ. First off I was listening to some Satellite smooth Jazz (DirectTV 851) with my receiver on stereo mode and I am not kidding when I say that I couldn't believe the center channel was off. I actually got up three times to put my ear in the center channel horn to be sure it was off because a good portion of the sound was anchored at center stage. I was sitting at front row center. The effect didn't make it to the side seats.

I also watched Sookie and Bill on HBO. So far I really like them but I have them sitting on the floor, and I haven't run my speaker set up to get them balanced with the surrounds, nor have I played with any EQ. I will report back later on my overall listening impressions.
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post #126 of 170
8/29/10 at 8:53pm
holy s! those look absolutely bad ass! awesome workmanship. alsolutely awesome.

the speaker can take massive power through the mid bass, so if you need to and your amps can handle it, don't be afraid to put some boost down there.


|| sidebar comment. i'd like to see wayne improve the design with a wider horn, a lower crossover point and put the slot port below the woofer.
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post #127 of 170
8/29/10 at 9:02pm
I'd like to see a low height center channel designed. Maybe something with a max height of 20-24" to fit under large projection screens.
But I really don't think a center channel is critically necessary with these speakers. It's not with my econowave 2226's.

Nice build btw!
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post #128 of 170
8/29/10 at 9:31pm
"As for my thoughts on SQ. First off I was listening to some Satellite smooth Jazz (DirectTV 851) with my receiver on stereo mode and I am not kidding when I say that I couldn't believe the center channel was off. I actually got up three times to put my ear in the center channel horn to be sure it was off because a good portion of the sound was anchored at center stage."

that is what happens when the sound from each side hits your head at the same spl with minimal reflections and the same frequency response. for most setups, if you toe in the left and right channel so that they cross slightly in front of the center seat you will get almost equal sound power across the whole listening room. such is one reason why phantom centers can work strikingly well.

http://www.audioroundtable.com/PiSpe...ges/23369.html

i posted this on audiokarma under the pseudonym publius, as it was meant for all of us.
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post #129 of 170
8/29/10 at 9:38pm
william cowan has experimented much and ended up with something quite similar.

http://www.cowanaudio.com/

click on "unity, the finale" on the left side. it may seem different in design, but it is actually quite similar in many key repects.

he reports more or less consistent sound around the whole room...check out what he has to say about his toed in horns.

this is just one example. there are many.

geddes suggests the same toe-in.

lots of goodness going around recently. ;-)
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post #130 of 170
8/29/10 at 9:48pm
"I did document a build thread in the PI speaker forum if anyone wants an inside look."

link it in.
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post #131 of 170
8/30/10 at 5:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"I did document a build thread in the PI speaker forum if anyone wants an inside look."

link it in.


http://audioroundtable.com/forum/ind...15168&start=0&

done
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post #132 of 170
8/30/10 at 11:19am
Very nice build Big. I like how you went the extra mile to paint the front of the woofers. I just skimmed your build thread but did you try and see if you could hear a difference with adding some extra mass to the horn/waveguide to one with out it? I built some ewaves and put some fiberglass on the back of 2 of the 3 waveguides I built. I wanted to do some tests to see if there was a difference, but havent yet.

Thanks for the links LTD. My sweet spot for 2 channel is fairly narrow and have been playing around with some different positions to no avail. Will have to try this out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"As for my thoughts on SQ. First off I was listening to some Satellite smooth Jazz (DirectTV 851) with my receiver on stereo mode and I am not kidding when I say that I couldn't believe the center channel was off. I actually got up three times to put my ear in the center channel horn to be sure it was off because a good portion of the sound was anchored at center stage."

that is what happens when the sound from each side hits your head at the same spl with minimal reflections and the same frequency response. for most setups, if you toe in the left and right channel so that they cross slightly in front of the center seat you will get almost equal sound power across the whole listening room. such is one reason why phantom centers can work strikingly well.

http://www.audioroundtable.com/PiSpe...ges/23369.html

i posted this on audiokarma under the pseudonym publius, as it was meant for all of us.
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post #133 of 170
9/4/10 at 3:33pm
have you read through bigmouth's thread? there is lots of good stuff in there.
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post #134 of 170
9/4/10 at 4:28pm
Doesn't painting a driver change the characteristics of the driver by adding weight to the cone? I would think that a paper cone would absorb a fair amount of paint.
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post #135 of 170
9/4/10 at 9:17pm
Take a look at his thread. He didn't paint the cone. He painted the bright silver ring on the frame of the JBL driver flat black, to be nonreflective behind his screen.

BTW, nice build thread Big. I really like the final result - basic black is always in style. I've been following the threads here and on the Pi forum with great interest, and can't wait to hear your final listening impressions.

I couldn't spring for the full monte 4pis, and have opted instead for a much more "budget" LCR Ewave SR build, with a form factor similar to Brandon's No Quarter. Though I'm sure they won't sound as nice as what you've just finished up, for less than 1/3 the price, I'll be able to afford to add the second sub I've been wanting. Now I need to start a build thread of my own...

Best,
C.
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post #136 of 170
9/4/10 at 10:00pm
hey cerdic, everybody is welcome whatever they can afford. $200 builds are just as welcome as $20,000 builds.

the lower priced build are actually more fun as they present a challenge. most folks can get good performance with an unlimited budget.
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post #137 of 170
9/5/10 at 4:19am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the feedback. Today the screen is coming down so that I can start putting the speakers up in the wall. This may be a two step process. First get them up in position by any means possible and then later maybe a more elaborate construction with a baffle wall and some new sub(s). I'm thinking LP THT.
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post #138 of 170
9/5/10 at 4:40am
Which depth version of the LP THT were you considering? Just food for thought, if you were considering the 15" deep build, that's with a 12" woofer, and has a significantly higher low frequency falloff than the "full width" LPTHTs.

I had looked at this is an option myself, but it took a while to find the freq response curve of the most slender of the THT/LPTHTs. My wall won't accommodate a deeper build, and I don't think the slender one is worth it.

Best,
C.
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post #139 of 170
9/5/10 at 5:34am
Thread Starter 
Let me get back to you on that as I'm going to do some measuring today and see what works. I had hoped to go with the 24 inch version and a 15 inch driver.
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post #140 of 170
9/5/10 at 11:28am
bigmouth, that is an absolutely awesome build thread. one of the best that i have ever seen. the speakers look pretty good too. ;-)
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post #141 of 170
9/5/10 at 5:30pm
I'm liking the all black enclosures, they look sharp! It is a shame to hide them behind the screen.
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post #142 of 170
9/5/10 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerdic View Post

Take a look at his thread. He didn't paint the cone. He painted the bright silver ring on the frame of the JBL driver flat black, to be nonreflective behind his screen.

BTW, nice build thread Big. I really like the final result - basic black is always in style. I've been following the threads here and on the Pi forum with great interest, and can't wait to hear your final listening impressions.

I couldn't spring for the full monte 4pis, and have opted instead for a much more "budget" LCR Ewave SR build, with a form factor similar to Brandon's No Quarter. Though I'm sure they won't sound as nice as what you've just finished up, for less than 1/3 the price, I'll be able to afford to add the second sub I've been wanting. Now I need to start a build thread of my own...

Best,
C.

I hesitated to even ask the question. Glad that was not the case since the speakers look so good.
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post #143 of 170
9/5/10 at 7:48pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks Nick, just a random observation. A couple months ago when we compared my old speakers to your initially assembled pair of 4PIs we noticed a substantial difference in the treble range. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I am not experiencing nearly the same magnitude of difference in my final speakers. I don't know what to attribute that to, your amp, different room acoustics, or the difference in the crossovers which we discussed.

You need to come over for a listen.
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post #144 of 170
9/6/10 at 4:42am
Thread Starter 
Managed to get them up in the wall, in a temporary arrangement for now until I figure out what I am going to do with the subs. I have room for two LP THTs either standing up or laying down.



I love the dynamics of these things. Perfect for action movies. Keep in mind that although they have 15 woofers they are not designed to operate as Sub woofers and I am still using a couple of 10 inch PE Titanics to add the very bottom to the L/R soundtrack which really kicks in on full orchestra passages. I'm also mixing in some LFE to L/R subs.
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post #145 of 170
9/6/10 at 5:08am
A DTS-10 could probably fit in that space and go deeper then the THT if that is what you are looking for. I have dual THT's, one 15" and one 12" driver models. They are good for 90% of the movies out there but I would like that infrasonic stuff.

You could also do an easy button with malx combo.
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post #146 of 170
9/6/10 at 5:25am
BigmouthDC, you have a beautiful room!! I always enjoy going back through your build thread too. You have some SERIOUS TALENT, Im envious!!!!

Adding the DTS-10 would definitely match those Pi speakers.
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post #147 of 170
9/6/10 at 9:42am
Thread Starter 
I must not know where to look or the secret handshake but isn't the DTS-10 KIT no longer available? Is there a boot leg copy of plans and source for the driver floating around? Anyone can PM me, no questions asked.
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post #148 of 170
9/6/10 at 9:58am
They do look very nice back there yes indeed.

I think they will look even better sitting on a couple THT's.
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post #149 of 170
9/6/10 at 11:26am
There is a DTS for sale in the classifieds.


How big is your cavity though and what are the dims of those Pi-4 speakers.
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post #150 of 170
9/6/10 at 2:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stgdz View Post

How big is your cavity though and what are the dims of those Pi-4 speakers.

The space I have to work with is either all the space below the speakers which is 30 inches tall, 24 deep, and 10.5 ft wide. OR

The space between the speakers is roughly 29 inches wide, 90 tall, and 24 deep.

There really isn't room behind the speakers to do anything meaningful.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Anyone build Wayne Parham's Pi-4 speakers? Impressions?