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Titan 1080P 3D Dual Ultra Thread - Page 2

post #31 of 712
What I saw was a hardrive playback of several of these games. The Glasses were middle of the road not the Nvidia but not the Reald Crystal Eyes 5.

http://www.reald.com/Images/Pages/re..._trans_350.gif

The video gaming segment looked great although it could have used more light (TITAN 3D Ultracontrast).

The Coraline had elevated whites and maybe a bit of motion bug, the other Parachuting content looked like up converted dvd, I am sure the video mastering was at fault there.
post #32 of 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Time to let the HD6K-M thread RIP, will be posting here from now on

Congrats Lon! Seems from now on that there are two Titan's living in your house - all the best!

After we both finished the neverending 6 months Christie journey by returning our units it is astonishing that we are more alive than ever in only 2 weeks! The best of the whole story was the contact to you! keep on rockin'!

Compliment to Peter - great support!
post #33 of 712
Thread Starter 
Here are some fully calibrated numbers:

30 FTL off 12' wide 16:9 screen Studio Tech 130, Notch Filter On. In room on/off 4300:1.

21.5 FTL off 14' wide 2.35 Studio Tech 130, Notch Filter On. In room on/off 4300:1.
post #34 of 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Here are some fully calibrated numbers:

30 FTL off 12' wide 16:9 screen Studio Tech 130, Notch Filter On. In room on/off 4300:1.



21.5 FTL off 14' wide 2.35 Studio Tech 130, Notch Filter On. In room on/off 4300:1.

LJG, is the projector a dual lamp or single lamp
post #35 of 712
Thread Starter 
Dual lamp, see name of thread....
post #36 of 712
Thanks for posting Lon.


Jim
post #37 of 712
[quote=LJG;16858348]
Before I can comment fully on the Titan's performance I am awaiting one last detail from DPI.


Hi Lon,

I've been following your experience with the Titan closely and have not yet seen you discuss this "one last detail from DPI." As you may know, we have been looking at DPI as a possible addition to, or replacement for, the product we currently sell to our higher-end clients. Given that there are several companies in this market that all bring acceptable performance, I'm primarily concerned with support. Both dealer and end-user support. You may not be able to comment on dealer support, but the above quoted comment leads me to believe you might be able to comment on end-user support.


Jim
post #38 of 712
You seem to be misunderstanding the issue Jim. It's best not to speculate about it though.
post #39 of 712
Thread Starter 
Yes, soon enough I should have something to share...
post #40 of 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

You seem to be misunderstanding the issue Jim. It's best not to speculate about it though.


Didn't know there was an issue.

Seriously, not a big deal and if I overshot the runway on this, my apologies. I'll wait for Lon's post.


Jim
post #41 of 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Yes, soon enough I should have something to share...

Screenshots?
post #42 of 712
Thread Starter 
The final detail has been worked out to my 1000% satisfaction.

DPI is a FIrst Class Operation, Peter of Cineramax First Class dealer.

Thank you Peter and Thank you DPI....
post #43 of 712
Lon - great to hear that everything is working great and that you are pleased with what DPI have been able to do for you.

I am holding some screenings at the DP factory in Manchester England for those interested in seeing the 3D Dual side by side with the 1080P 250 and 500.

These are not open screenings but anyone with a genuine interest/application and interested in a viewing can PM me.

Neil
post #44 of 712
Thread Starter 
Hi Neal:

Are you familiar with the implimentation of the Fast Frame technology on the 3D Titan?
post #45 of 712
Lon,

I have only had limited experience of the technology as configured by others not necessarily focussed on optimal home theatre presentation. My trip to the factory in a couple of weeks will be my first chance to get my own hands on it.

Like everyone here I am curious what issue you had to address. A PM would be great if you are happy to share - if not, no worries!
post #46 of 712
Thread Starter 
Hi Neal:

I am not at liberty to share the issue that I had, BUT it is no longer an issue and has been resolved to my 1000% satisfaction, furthermore the issue was an isolated case and would not affect any DPI or Titan purchasers.

If Peter wishes to share this with anyone as he was instrumental in the solution I am OK with that, but again I don't think it is for me to share....

Now to the Fast Frame, when it is implimented the lumen output is reduced by about 60-70%, and the native contrast is cut in half. Have you had the opportunity to play with the fast frame technology?
post #47 of 712
Regarding fast frame, i did expect that brightness would go down, since what this process does is add a black segment after a 30 hz frame to separate the frame better thus creating a superior impression of motion. This is for fast motion 60 hz content.

I did not expect the contrast to go down accordingly but If I recall my old explanation actual lumens are needed to be thrown away when reduced apertures are used to be able to increase contrast. The analogy of having a firetruck hose dialed down will shoot farther a stream of water than a garden hose (that power range is the equivalent of the contrast) the larger volume of the water is the initial high brightness prior to aperture reductions. So it appears that fast frame by adding black is acting as a valve on the hose.
post #48 of 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Now to the Fast Frame, when it is implimented the lumen output is reduced by about 60-70%, and the native contrast is cut in half. Have you had the opportunity to play with the fast frame technology?

Interesting that the lumen output drop isn't proportional to the CR reduction (unless that was just rounding and the native CR drops more than half). This is one place where LEDs could help. They could be shut off during the dark time and so not hurt native on/off CR. Also, whichever LED is weakest (green most likely) could be driven harder if it is only on half the time than if it is on all the time. I've read that they can be run about 180% of full if only run half the time, but I don't know if there are limitations with only being able to run it so long at that much power (half of a frame at 24Hz would be about 83 milliseconds on time before a break).

--Darin
post #49 of 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Hi Neal:

I am not at liberty to share the issue that I had, BUT it is no longer an issue and has been resolved to my 1000% satisfaction, furthermore the issue was an isolated case and would not affect any DPI or Titan purchasers.

If Peter wishes to share this with anyone as he was instrumental in the solution I am OK with that, but again I don't think it is for me to share....

Now to the Fast Frame, when it is implimented the lumen output is reduced by about 60-70%, and the native contrast is cut in half. Have you had the opportunity to play with the fast frame technology?


So would you be using fastframe when watching a 3D movie or just using fastframe when watching sporting events.
post #50 of 712
Fast frame is for sports.
post #51 of 712
Thread Starter 
Yes, fast frame just for 60p sports only.

Does Sony motion flow also affect lumen output?
post #52 of 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Yes, fast frame just for 60p sports only.

Does Sony motion flow also affect lumen output?

With the Sony you have three different levels. There was a pdf floating around
that demonstrated each sequence that made it easy to understand what was taking place.
You lost brightness and contrast on the Sony as well. The loss of brightness is not lateral and thats where you lose contrast. It drops only the upper IRE. 0IRE does not change.
post #53 of 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Does Sony motion flow also affect lumen output?

Going along with what Alan said, the first mode on the Sony basically just makes the chips go to as black as they can for half the frame. So, people can pretty much figure out what that would do. It cuts the white in half, but it leaves the black level about the same. So, native on/off CR goes to about half, along with the lumens.

The other 2 modes do some funky things to try to retain the lumens and CR and from memory they do a pretty good job of that. I think the 2nd mode reduces them some, but the 3rd is pretty close in lumens to having the modes off (and so CR should be about the same, but I don't recall measuring it). The 2nd and 3rd modes basically do a bright version of the frame and then a dim version. As an example, if white is 10 ft-lamberts and each half a frame is normally 5 ft-lamberts, for an object that should be 8 ft-lamberts total the projector will normally provide 4 ftL in the 1st half frame 4 ftL in the 2nd half frame. Mode 1 instead will provide 4 ftL in the 1st half frame and nothing (or as dark as the projector will go with the current iris position) in the 2nd half frame. Mode 2 and 3 do more like 5 ft-lamberts in the 1st half frame and 3 ft-lamberts in the 2nd half frame for that object, although I think mode 2 might dim things a little bit so that white isn't 5 and 5 in this case. I hope that makes sense.

--Darin
post #54 of 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Fast frame is for sports.


I guess I will have to see the transition from watching a movie to watching a sporting event.... the lumens loss seems a bit much .. I also understand that you would loose about 40% lumes when watching 3D is that true
post #55 of 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Going along with what Alan said, the first mode on the Sony basically just makes the chips go to as black as they can for half the frame. So, people can pretty much figure out what that would do. It cuts the white in half, but it leaves the black level about the same. So, native on/off CR goes to about half, along with the lumens.

The other 2 modes do some funky things to try to retain the lumens and CR and from memory they do a pretty good job of that. I think the 2nd mode reduces them some, but the 3rd is pretty close in lumens to having the modes off (and so CR should be about the same, but I don't recall measuring it). The 2nd and 3rd modes basically do a bright version of the frame and then a dim version. As an example, if white is 10 ft-lamberts and each half a frame is normally 5 ft-lamberts, for an object that should be 8 ft-lamberts total the projector will normally provide 4 ftL in the 1st half frame 4 ftL in the 2nd half frame. Mode 1 instead will provide 4 ftL in the 1st half frame and nothing (or as dark as the projector will go with the current iris position) in the 2nd half frame. Mode 2 and 3 do more like 5 ft-lamberts in the 1st half frame and 3 ft-lamberts in the 2nd half frame for that object, although I think mode 2 might dim things a little bit so that white isn't 5 and 5 in this case. I hope that makes sense.

--Darin

Darin I dont remember but was it the BFI on the Sony that gave it the flicker?
If so do you guys get this same 48fps flicker on the DP when turning on BFI?
You cannot mistake this as it was easy to see and made some people sick
Thx.
post #56 of 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

Lon,

I have only had limited experience of the technology as configured by others not necessarily focussed on optimal home theatre presentation. My trip to the factory in a couple of weeks will be my first chance to get my own hands on it.

Like everyone here I am curious what issue you had to address. A PM would be great if you are happy to share - if not, no worries!

You only live up the road from me as i am in the Scottish Borders so if you buy one i can become your best friend and watch 3D movies at your house when proper 3D Blu Ray players and software hit the market.
post #57 of 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Darin I dont remember but was it the BFI on the Sony that gave it the flicker?

Yes, the first mode of that. The 2nd and 3rd modes I don't recall giving that flicker, but the one that basically turned the chips off for half the frame time did show flicker on some things. We saw it most with a lighter blue background on a test disc (I think it was the main menu page of that test disc from Japan, FDE or something like that).

--Darin
post #58 of 712
Thread Starter 
The Titan has Fast Frame on/off, the you can select the Dark Time in MS, from 0-16, the longer the MS the lower the lumen output, dfault is set to 8
post #59 of 712
....salivating!
post #60 of 712
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wshah View Post

....salivating!

Yes Indeedy
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