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Official JTR speaker thread - Page 360

post #10771 of 18382
Oh yes my bad! I was just thinking hey a couple Submersives with a DIY double driver RE XXX set to like 40 and below to take care of infrasonic! Random thoughts. Man I watched a video RMK posted a coupe of years ago with a triple 8 and a growler duo. The camera was rolling and it sounded nice, loud, snappy, and precise. Then he zoomed out and was at least a 100 yards away. It was a good advertisement.

http://youtu.be/qWznxY4CmI4
post #10772 of 18382
My minidsp has 4 outs, so you could set 4 different LPF or HPF signals to your subs as well as 4 separate eq settings - however I have read many times that it is better to eq all the subs as one anyway.
post #10773 of 18382
OK, couldn't sleep with the excitement of having the speakers so I was up at 7 this morning setting my room up.

Removed my old speakers and then measured the room again. Placed the speakers accordingly in the room with about 10° of toe in. Then I ran Audyssey.

Wow is all I can say. I know I only bought these for home theater but I couldn't stop playing all my favorite songs through them. The clarity and detail was unsurpassed. In the past month I auditioned many speakers including some costing in the 10's of thousands. I know they weren't in my specific room but for the money these speakers blow all of them away.

I can't wait until tonight when I pop in either the new star trek or iron man 3 to give it a run through.

For anyone on the fence, get off your ass and just order them.
post #10774 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

My minidsp has 4 outs, so you could set 4 different LPF or HPF signals to your subs as well as 4 separate eq settings - however I have read many times that it is better to eq all the subs as one anyway.
I have been experimenting with mine quite a bit in the last couple weeks and because I am running different subs I find using different band passes on certain subs is advantageous. The independent time alignment is probably the biggest advantage. I set global eq filters to cut bass ringing or other issues you wish to tame but independant crossover types seems an advantage when mixing subs. Just my experience so far. My sound really improved with this Minidsp, I was able to even the room out much bette with independant controls.
post #10775 of 18382
I think HE speakers get a bacd rap when so many people think they are not good with music for some reason. My Noesis are the best sounding music speakers I've ever heard AND the best HT speakers short of some insane DIY stuff I've heard at one HT I was calibrating.
As for speaker cables, I make my own and generally use the 10 gauge wire from these guys : http://www.knukonceptz.com/productMaster.cfm?category=KL3%20Kable
It's good quality and reasonably priced. They make nice boots as well!
post #10776 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperM3 View Post

OK, couldn't sleep with the excitement of having the speakers so I was up at 7 this morning setting my room up.

Removed my old speakers and then measured the room again. Placed the speakers accordingly in the room with about 10° of toe in. Then I ran Audyssey.

Wow is all I can say. I know I only bought these for home theater but I couldn't stop playing all my favorite songs through them. The clarity and detail was unsurpassed. In the past month I auditioned many speakers including some costing in the 10's of thousands. I know they weren't in my specific room but for the money these speakers blow all of them away.

I can't wait until tonight when I pop in either the new star trek or iron man 3 to give it a run through.

For anyone on the fence, get off your ass and just order them.

Nice!!!!

Can you post some pictures of your setup?
post #10777 of 18382
Nice N8, I like those prices and good looking wire boots and banana connectors all for cheap.

I'm definitely gonna get this 7 channel RCA set though from Emotiva. Help with clutter
post #10778 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Nice!!!!

Can you post some pictures of your setup?

Here ya go. Just took this one from the point of the viewer.

post #10779 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperM3 View Post

Here ya go. Just took this one from the point of the viewer.


Have you tried toeing in the mains? Most say that the Noesis perform best with quite a bit of toe in. Of course the only thing that matters is how they sound to you in your room. Nice setup and thank for the pics. cool.gif
post #10780 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Have you tried toeing in the mains? Most say that the Noesis perform best with quite a bit of toe in. Of course the only thing that matters is how they sound to you in your room. Nice setup and thank for the pics. cool.gif

I did a 10° toe for now. I actually sit on the left side of the couch, not the middle. If I toe in too much the pin point will be to the right of me. I'm trying to keep the triangle so most of the couch getting crossed by both speakers and the point behind me at the wall. Hopefully that made sense to someone.
post #10781 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperM3 View Post

I did a 10° toe for now. I actually sit on the left side of the couch, not the middle. If I toe in too much the pin point will be to the right of me. I'm trying to keep the triangle so most of the couch getting crossed by both speakers and the point behind me at the wall. Hopefully that made sense to someone.

Of course and it's good that you are concerned about other listening positions. Obviously this is made more difficult when the primary LP (your seat) is not front and center. Maybe some HT chairs are on the upgrade agenda? wink.gif

As I'm sure you know, the real sweet spot for 2 channel is relatively small and most setup their mains to optimize that location but the beauty of M/C listening (including just the LCR's) is that you can give everyone on the couch a nice experience.
post #10782 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperM3 View Post

OK, couldn't sleep with the excitement of having the speakers so I was up at 7 this morning setting my room up.

Removed my old speakers and then measured the room again. Placed the speakers accordingly in the room with about 10° of toe in. Then I ran Audyssey.

Wow is all I can say. I know I only bought these for home theater but I couldn't stop playing all my favorite songs through them. The clarity and detail was unsurpassed. In the past month I auditioned many speakers including some costing in the 10's of thousands. I know they weren't in my specific room but for the money these speakers blow all of them away.

I can't wait until tonight when I pop in either the new star trek or iron man 3 to give it a run through.

For anyone on the fence, get off your ass and just order them.

Wait till you get a little more hours on them! I know that some guys say that speaker break in isn't really a real thing but honestly when I hooked up my 228HT's for the very first time I thought "wow these things are so clear and detailed, but sound a little thin" but after a few movies I started to notice that less and less. Honestly now they sound entirely different from what I recall the very first time I hooked them up, I'm sure some of that was just getting use to the sound of a CD/horn configuration. These speakers sound awesome and have almost an addictive sound to them, hell even my wife loves them and she usually couldn't give a funk about the audio in our theatre room...lol
post #10783 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperM3 View Post

I did a 10° toe for now. I actually sit on the left side of the couch, not the middle. If I toe in too much the pin point will be to the right of me. I'm trying to keep the triangle so most of the couch getting crossed by both speakers and the point behind me at the wall. Hopefully that made sense to someone.


Nice setup!

As far as toe in I have found the opposite to be true. If I toe in a lot the sweet spot is wider, if i toe in less the sweet spot is more narrow. After experimenting a ton I have finally settled on pointing each speaker directly at my ears and I have the speakers very far from each other. They are 12' 6" apart and I sit 9 feet from each speaker.

I know that violates the golden triangle rule, but I have found with the 212's (probably the same would be true for the 228's but I haven't tried it) it doesn't matter. The soundstage is still incredible, in fact I prefer it with the speakers being this wide.

Since you don't sit in the center (which would drive me crazy for music!!) smile.gif try out toeing them WAY in - meaning you can see the outside (closest to wall side) of the speaker cabinets. When I tried that my center image stays centered even if I'm quite a ways off to the side of the sweet spot. I didn't keep it this way since I'm the only one who cares most of the time and I sit dead center.
post #10784 of 18382
There is a thread on the speaker section about demo songs, and the OP gave some recommendations. His recommendation for best highs is Buddy Rich - The Greatest Drummer That Ever Lived.

I'm listening to it now, and I have to agree that the sound quality of the highs is incredible, and this is using Spotify. The cymbals sound so pleasing and smooth you guys should check it out. Not my normal style of music, but damn the highs sound good on the Noesis.

I'm going to check out his other recommendations when I get a chance. Soon I'll be watching the recorded game of us and the Giants. I can't stand watching all the commercials so I like to record so I can skip them all.

Here is that thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1492491/a-perfect-cd-to-showcase-your-speakers-does-it-even-exist#post_23779499
post #10785 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Nice setup!

As far as toe in I have found the opposite to be true. If I toe in a lot the sweet spot is wider, if i toe in less the sweet spot is more narrow. After experimenting a ton I have finally settled on pointing each speaker directly at my ears and I have the speakers very far from each other. They are 12' 6" apart and I sit 9 feet from each speaker.

I know that violates the golden triangle rule, but I have found with the 212's (probably the same would be true for the 228's but I haven't tried it) it doesn't matter. The soundstage is still incredible, in fact I prefer it with the speakers being this wide.

Since you don't sit in the center (which would drive me crazy for music!!) smile.gif try out toeing them WAY in - meaning you can see the outside (closest to wall side) of the speaker cabinets. When I tried that my center image stays centered even if I'm quite a ways off to the side of the sweet spot. I didn't keep it this way since I'm the only one who cares most of the time and I sit dead center.

Great points Carp. You have me thinking (always dangerous and often expensive) and the golden triangle is exactly what I want/need. My mains have always felt a little "crowded" in order to position them behind the 10' wide AT screen. The current center to center measurement for the mains is only 8', The LP is 11' from the screen. Kind of the inverse of your setup.

I'd like to move the mains outboard of the screen and that means moving my mains off of the OS's. I would then need to buy/build stands and move one OS to another location in the room. It's all doable and relatively easy/inexpensive. I'm thinking the improved geometry might give me much better 2 channel performance and widen the sweet spot for MC listening (like your setup).

Now, I just need the time to make this happen but thanks for providing the seed of an idea. smile.gif

BTW, what speaker geometry are other Noesis owners using?
Edited by RMK! - 9/29/13 at 11:54am
post #10786 of 18382
OK, got'em setup.

Tried to setup my S2's prior to an Audyssey run but was stopped dead in my tracks when I realized they have no phase control. I have a pretty large null that I suspect may be correctable with a phase inversion. Looks like a miniDSP is needed.

Ignoring that issue, the Noesis sounded fantastic with no EQ in my room at all. Better than my prior CHT Pro-10's by a large margin. Listened initially with no subs with my friend who helped me move them, but no critical listening at that point and they clearly needed subs and some EQ in my room.

Ran a 7 position Audyssey Pro cal late at night and then finally did some critical listening. Based on my initial impressions, these speakers are worthy of all the praise they receive. They literally gave me an emotional response on a regular basis, and not just chills. They just nail the vocals and convey an unbelievable emotional immediacy. I'm telling you, I nearly cried at one point. I don't know if it was the lyrics, the speaker, or the unbridled joy that I'd found a speaker that has reignited my passion for music, but there it was. That's the moment you know a speaker is doing something VERY right. Now, for anyone reading this, YMMV. There is no one speaker to rule all listeners and having been involved in this hobby for a bit I know that impressions evolve over time as one discovers the strengths and weaknesses of a speaker. These are simply my initial thoughts with a speaker that I've not yet had the time to fully explore.

Now to the miniDSP, would you guys mind advising me on which model I need to calibrate and EQ my sub's using my Denon 4311 with dual sub preouts.

Thanks!


Edited by Gooddoc - 9/29/13 at 12:42pm
post #10787 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

OK, got'em setup.

Tried to setup my S2's prior to an Audyssey run but was stopped dead in my tracks when I realized they have no phase control. I have a pretty large null that I suspect may be correctable with a phase inversion. Looks like a miniDSP is needed.

Ignoring that issue, the Noesis sounded fantastic with no EQ in my room at all. Better than my prior CHT Pro-10's by a large margin. Listened initially with no subs with my friend who helped me move them, but no critical listening at that point and they clearly needed subs and some EQ in my room.

Ran a 7 position Audyssey Pro cal late at night and then finally did some critical listening. Based on my initial impressions, these speakers are worthy of all the praise they receive. They literally gave me an emotional response on a regular basis, and not just chills. They just nail the vocals and convey an unbelievable emotional immediacy. I'm telling you, I nearly cried at one point. I don't know if it was the lyrics, the speaker, or the unbridled joy that I'd found a speaker that has reignited my passion for music, but there it was. That's the moment you know a speaker is doing something VERY right. Now, for anyone reading this, YMMV. There is no one speaker to rule all listeners and having been involved in this hobby for a bit I know that impressions evolve over time as one discovers the strengths and weaknesses of a speaker. These are simply my initial thoughts with a speaker that I've not yet had the time to fully explore.

Now to the miniDSP, would you guys mind advising me on which model I need to calibrate and EQ my sub's using my Demon 4311 with dual sub preouts.

Thanks!

re6e8yru.jpg

Nice ... cool.gif Can't help on the mini DSP question but will be listening as one is surely in my future. Are those the 24" stands?

Oh and sorry but I just have to ask one more question ... is the room pink?
post #10788 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

[quote name="Gooddoc" url="/t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread/10800#post_23783986"]OK, got'em setup. Tried to setup my S2's prior to an Audyssey run but was stopped dead in my tracks when I realized they have no phase control. I have a pretty large null that I suspect may be correctable with a phase inversion. Looks like a miniDSP is needed.Ignoring that issue, the Noesis sounded fantastic with no EQ in my room at all. Better than my prior CHT Pro-10's by a large margin. Listened initially with no subs with my friend who helped me move them, but no critical listening at that point and they clearly needed subs and some EQ in my room.Ran a 7 position Audyssey Pro cal late at night and then finally did some critical listening. Based on my initial impressions, these speakers are worthy of all the praise they receive. They literally gave me an emotional response on a regular basis, and not just chills. They just nail the vocals and convey an unbelievable emotional immediacy. I'm telling you, I nearly cried at one point. I don't know if it was the lyrics, the speaker, or the unbridled joy that I'd found a speaker that has reignited my passion for music, but there it was. That's the moment you know a speaker is doing something VERY right. Now, for anyone reading this, YMMV. There is no one speaker to rule all listeners and having been involved in this hobby for a bit I know that impressions evolve over time as one discovers the strengths and weaknesses of a speaker. These are simply my initial thoughts with a speaker that I've not yet had the time to fully explore.Now to the miniDSP, would you guys mind advising me on which model I need to calibrate and EQ my sub's using my Demon 4311 with dual sub preouts.Thanks![IMG]http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/30/re6e8yru.jpg[/IMG][/quote]Nice ... :cool: Can't help on the mini DSP question but will be listening as one is surely in my future. Are those the 24" stands?Oh and sorry but I just have to ask one more question ... is the room pink?

Lmao! Its a bit browner than my phone camera shows, but it does have shades of pink. But I will say, If my wife is willing to deal with those speakers in the room, she can paint it whatever color she wants. biggrin.gif As you well know, the speakers are not "Bose sexy" or high on the WAF scale wink.gif. (And she does want to change the color...with my luck to a pinker shade, lol)

As to the stands, I placed them on their sides so the Noesis is 16.5 inches, perfect height IMO. I've yet to discuss a swap with Jeff.
post #10789 of 18382
Gooddoc, great review man, I feel the same way about music so when I read these I know I am on my way!
post #10790 of 18382
Heres a little higher quality pic smile.gif

My "wall of awesomeness", lol

post #10791 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Heres a little higher quality pic smile.gif

My "wall of awesomeness", lol


3 Things

1. Nice. I'm happy for you. And nice because I really liked your comment about reigniting your passion for music and I hope the same applies to me when I get my 212HT-LPSs.

2. Since your Denon 4311 doesn't have balanced outputs, just get the MiniDSP 2x4 Rev B (2v).
http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4

3. Size - I hope your TV is small and that those are 212s. Otherwise...what did I get myself in to as your TV looks small next to those speakers. smile.gif
post #10792 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

OK, got'em setup.

Tried to setup my S2's prior to an Audyssey run but was stopped dead in my tracks when I realized they have no phase control. I have a pretty large null that I suspect may be correctable with a phase inversion. Looks like a miniDSP is needed.

Ignoring that issue, the Noesis sounded fantastic with no EQ in my room at all. Better than my prior CHT Pro-10's by a large margin. Listened initially with no subs with my friend who helped me move them, but no critical listening at that point and they clearly needed subs and some EQ in my room.

Ran a 7 position Audyssey Pro cal late at night and then finally did some critical listening. Based on my initial impressions, these speakers are worthy of all the praise they receive. They literally gave me an emotional response on a regular basis, and not just chills. They just nail the vocals and convey an unbelievable emotional immediacy. I'm telling you, I nearly cried at one point. I don't know if it was the lyrics, the speaker, or the unbridled joy that I'd found a speaker that has reignited my passion for music, but there it was. That's the moment you know a speaker is doing something VERY right. Now, for anyone reading this, YMMV. There is no one speaker to rule all listeners and having been involved in this hobby for a bit I know that impressions evolve over time as one discovers the strengths and weaknesses of a speaker. These are simply my initial thoughts with a speaker that I've not yet had the time to fully explore.

Now to the miniDSP, would you guys mind advising me on which model I need to calibrate and EQ my sub's using my Denon 4311 with dual sub preouts.

Thanks!

Your impressions are very much like mine.
These speakers are so involving.
I have never experienced this with any speaker before.
This week I heard Peter Gabriel' s "Mercy street" on the radio.
Once at home I had to hear it right away on my system.
It instantly brought tears to my eyes.
And once the music hits a brighter note I cant sit still.
Maybe no speaker is perfect, but if it has this kind of impact who needs perfection then.
cool.gif
post #10793 of 18382
WOW....those 212HT's must be pretty amazing sounding speakers, I've never been brought to tears from hearing music...tongue.gif
post #10794 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post

[quote name="Gooddoc" url="/t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread/10800#post_23784092"]Heres a little higher quality pic :)My "wall of awesomeness", lol[IMG ALT=""]http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/284300/width/350/height/700[/IMG][/quote]3 Things1. Nice. I'm happy for you. And nice because I really liked your comment about reigniting your passion for music and I hope the same applies to me when I get my 212HT-LPSs.2. Since your Denon 4311 doesn't have balanced outputs, just get the MiniDSP 2x4 Rev B (2v). http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x43. Size - I hope your TV is small and that those are 212s. Otherwise...what did I get myself in to as your TV looks small next to those speakers. :)

3 things back at ya smile.gif

1) Ty very much. I've continued listening. It is hardly possible to post how much I like these speakers with any semblance of reasonable objectiveness. They are exactly and everything I wanted from this upgrade. I was hoping they would be more than I hoped for:what:, and they are. smile.gif

2) Thank you very much for the link

3) That is a 60" Pioneer Kuro KRP-600M. It used to be much larger...biggrin.gif
post #10795 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

For those of you with mini dsp's...I understand it allows you to set independent crossovers and high & low pass filters wherever you like correct? So if one had some ridiculous subs like a RE XXX and wanted to cut em at like 40hz hpf but still allow there other "main" subs only have a 80 hpf. A mini dsp can do that right?

Been there, done that, about to head back there again smile.gif But I have used the DCX to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Great points Carp. You have me thinking (always dangerous and often expensive) and the golden triangle is exactly what I want/need. My mains have always felt a little "crowded" in order to position them behind the 10' wide AT screen. The current center to center measurement for the mains is only 8', The LP is 11' from the screen. Kind of the inverse of your setup.

I'd like to move the mains outboard of the screen and that means moving my mains off of the OS's. I would then need to buy/build stands and move one OS to another location in the room. It's all doable and relatively easy/inexpensive. I'm thinking the improved geometry might give me much better 2 channel performance and widen the sweet spot for MC listening (like your setup).

Now, I just need the time to make this happen but thanks for providing the seed of an idea. smile.gif

BTW, what speaker geometry are other Noesis owners using?

I am there at this point. I moved my MLP back from the equilateral triangle when I upsized the screen to get me to a 1:1 ratio with the new A_T screen's width. I am promptly moving back to where I was. Having the speakers AT LEAST as wide as you are from them is a huge game changer IMO for 2 channel listening.
post #10796 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

WOW....those 212HT's must be pretty amazing sounding speakers, I've never been brought to tears from hearing music...tongue.gif
And then there is the risk of a "sweetspot hernia", not from lifting but sitting too long absorbed.
tongue.gif
post #10797 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

3) That is a 60" Pioneer Kuro KRP-600M. It used to be much larger...biggrin.gif

Damn...I also have a 60" plasma that is about to get a lot smaller. wink.gif
post #10798 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Lmao! Its a bit browner than my phone camera shows, but it does have shades of pink. But I will say, If my wife is willing to deal with those speakers in the room, she can paint it whatever color she wants. biggrin.gif As you well know, the speakers are not "Bose sexy" or high on the WAF scale wink.gif. (And she does want to change the color...with my luck to a pinker shade, lol)

As to the stands, I placed them on their sides so the Noesis is 16.5 inches, perfect height IMO. I've yet to discuss a swap with Jeff.

Good improv, they look fine in the photos and I get the wife pleasing color as she seems like a keeper. biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Heres a little higher quality pic smile.gif

My "wall of awesomeness", lol


You mean Pink Awesomness, don't you ... tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

1) Ty very much. I've continued listening. It is hardly possible to post how much I like these speakers with any semblance of reasonable objectiveness. They are exactly and everything I wanted from this upgrade. I was hoping they would be more than I hoped for:what:, and they are. smile.gif

That is very cool. It makes all of us who own them feel good when someone buys them and then "gets" what we have been saying. You were very smart to hear them first but not everyone has that luxury. I generally downplay my enthusiasm so as not to unintentionally influence a decision process but they really are amazing speakers. cool.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Been there, done that, about to head back there again smile.gif But I have used the DCX to do it.
I am there at this point. I moved my MLP back from the equilateral triangle when I upsized the screen to get me to a 1:1 ratio with the new A_T screen's width. I am promptly moving back to where I was. Having the speakers AT LEAST as wide as you are from them is a huge game changer IMO for 2 channel listening.

Thanks for that info Beast, I've always felt I had given the Noesis short shrift by putting the 212 LCR's behind the screen and, my hurried initial setup, They do sound great but I believe they have more to give in 2 channel and deserve better placement than my current layout. smile.gif
Edited by RMK! - 9/29/13 at 3:04pm
post #10799 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by staaled View Post

Your impressions are very much like mine.
These speakers are so involving.
I have never experienced this with any speaker before.
This week I heard Peter Gabriel' s "Mercy street" on the radio.
Once at home I had to hear it right away on my system.
It instantly brought tears to my eyes.
And once the music hits a brighter note I cant sit still.
Maybe no speaker is perfect, but if it has this kind of impact who needs perfection then.
cool.gif

Agreed. But I said I was almost in tears...tongue.gif:D

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

WOW....those 212HT's must be pretty amazing sounding speakers, I've never been brought to tears from hearing music...tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

WOW....those 212HT's must be pretty amazing sounding speakers, I've never been brought to tears from hearing music...tongue.gif

The faintest of breath at the end of a verse, the finger slides on the strings, the most realistic cymbal reproduction I've ever heard. It all brings an intimacy to the music that is hard to describe. Up to this point I simply haven't had the pleasure to hear music reproduced at this level.

In fact....I think .....I might ...start crying right now....biggrin.gif
post #10800 of 18382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Agreed. But I said I was almost in tears...tongue.gif:D

The faintest of breath at the end of a verse, the finger slides on the strings, the most realistic cymbal reproduction I've ever heard. It all brings an intimacy to the music that is hard to describe. Up to this point I simply haven't had the pleasure to hear music reproduced at this level.

In fact....I think .....I might ...start crying right now....biggrin.gif

Has someone been slipping you estrogen pills?....lol tongue.gif
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