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Official JTR speaker thread - Page 376

post #11251 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post

Dammit CoolGeek...this sounds like an excuse. I want to hear about the OS knocking books off the shelves already. smile.gif

HAHA... I'll be a happy camper if the OS can actually knock books off shelves...

I just got the powercon cable today (met a guy who could make it yesterday and he delivered it to me today)... I'll get the XLR to RCA soon to hook up the signals to my receiver.

After that, all i'll need is 4 burly guys to volunteer to carry the OS back up to my room for testing.... know where i can find 'burly guys'?
post #11252 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

HAHA... I'll be a happy camper if the OS can actually knock books off shelves...

I just got the powercon cable today (met a guy who could make it yesterday and he delivered it to me today)... I'll get the XLR to RCA soon to hook up the signals to my receiver.

After that, all i'll need is 4 burly guys to volunteer to carry the OS back up to my room for testing.... know where i can find 'burly guys'?

Ummm, Jeff and I humped two OS-LF's (granted not LFU's) from Jeff's car into the house then up two flights of stairs. I recall having the heavy end. I'm 6'5" and in pretty good shape but I'm also 62 so stop your whining and get the damn thing installed. It will move walls and anything attached to them ... wink.gifsmile.gif
post #11253 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperM3 View Post

Yes, I have treatments on my back wall and ceiling as well as bass traps in all four corners. Thick wall to wall carpeting as well. Suede couch, not leather. And most of the time watching with me is my fat friend who also seems to absorb sound.


Bio bass trap? tongue.gif

I don't know what you are experiencing but then I have 212LP and I find the stereo center image locked in from either of my two middle seats (HT love-seat) and acceptable from the outside two seats of the front row.

Like you said, with MC music and movies all seats sound good to great.
post #11254 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Ummm, Jeff and I humped two OS-LF's (granted not LFU's) from Jeff's car into the house then up two flights of stairs. I recall having the heavy end. I'm 6'5" and in pretty good shape but I'm also 62 so stop your whining and get the damn thing installed. It will move walls and anything attached to them ... wink.gifsmile.gif

+1!!!!
C'mon Coolgeek! You will forever hold the record for having an OS for the longest time before listening to it...
post #11255 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

I am currently living in a rented house. I got permission to 'take out the windows' and build bookshelves all around the room... at least on 3 walls (one with a computer table at the bottom end, then books up top). As you can see in my speakers pic, you'll see the tv surrounded by books...

I like living around books... this is not my 'dedicated ht' or 'listening room'.. it's just my bedroom..

I am currently renovating a house i bought 3 years back (basically tearing down the entire house and re-building).. it'll have a basement and that's where i'll be putting my actual HT... It's coming along, albeit slowly...

Well, what I was getting with all of this is the bookshelves are essentially huge diffusion panels. Odds are your room is even better acoustically "treated," albeit with usable objects like books than the issue the hyper might have with his center image.
post #11256 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Ummm, Jeff and I humped two OS-LF's (granted not LFU's) from Jeff's car into the house then up two flights of stairs. I recall having the heavy end. I'm 6'5" and in pretty good shape but I'm also 62 so stop your whining and get the damn thing installed. It will move walls and anything attached to them ... wink.gifsmile.gif

+1

Damn RMK, you're strong for a 62 year old guy... I can't even push the OS, much less lift them. Of course, I am only 5'7"...

BTW: The two BURLY Fedex guys were huffing and puffing just to get the thing down from their truck, then they used a trolley to get it into my house. And when I asked them to help me move it upstairs, they stared at me dumbfounded.. then politely declined.. hahaha...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

+1!!!!
C'mon Coolgeek! You will forever hold the record for having an OS for the longest time before listening to it...

LOL...

I was also one of the first few to 'pre-order' the noesis, but waited like 10 months before asking Jeff to ship it to me.. so, that has to be some record as well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Well, what I was getting with all of this is the bookshelves are essentially huge diffusion panels. Odds are your room is even better acoustically "treated," albeit with usable objects like books than the issue the hyper might have with his center image.

Yup... I guess that's what I am saying... maybe all you need is very little 'treating'... like perhaps a diffusion panel here and there.. and not too many absorbers... i find a lot of treated room completely dead.... you don't get the 'live' feeling that I am getting from my library...
post #11257 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Like on my Denon I have these. Do you listen in 2 channel or a multi channel on music? I like Dolby Pro Logic IIz personally


You know, I have no clue. I think I have it set to automatic or something. The thing is, Im listening to music through youtube streaming through my oppo. So the whole system thinks its in DVD mode not the pure-direct mode I would typically run a CD in. I have to go back tonight and check and see what I actually run it through.
post #11258 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperM3 View Post

You know, I have no clue. I think I have it set to automatic or something. The thing is, Im listening to music through youtube streaming through my oppo. So the whole system thinks its in DVD mode not the pure-direct mode I would typically run a CD in. I have to go back tonight and check and see what I actually run it through.

What AVR did you have? Try Stereo and Dolby PLIIx. Of course with speakers set to small and 80hz crossover. And from there, if you have run audyssey on an audyssey enabled AVR then you can also change audyssey from "movie" to "flat". Movie rolls off the high end while flat leaves it untouched.

Your AVR will automatically pick up incoming signals though. Like when you put a movie in once it starts it will auto select DTS Master HD, Dolby Digital or Dolby True HD. Or some basic DVDs will just be Setreo.
post #11259 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

What AVR did you have? Try Stereo and Dolby PLIIx. Of course with speakers set to small and 80hz crossover. And from there, if you have run audyssey on an audyssey enabled AVR then you can also change audyssey from "movie" to "flat". Movie rolls off the high end while flat leaves it untouched.

Your AVR will automatically pick up incoming signals though. Like when you put a movie in once it starts it will auto select DTS Master HD, Dolby Digital or Dolby True HD. Or some basic DVDs will just be Setreo.

Marantz AV7005 processor. Ill have to try those other settings. I did set all the speakers to 80hz. Its all set to flat. Dynamic EQ on, Dynamic Volume Off.
post #11260 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperM3 View Post

Marantz AV7005 processor. Ill have to try those other settings. I did set all the speakers to 80hz. Its all set to flat. Dynamic EQ on, Dynamic Volume Off.

Nice. Yes definitely no dyn volume. I never use it, perhaps if i had kids smile.gif. And yes I always have dynamic eq on
post #11261 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio

Well, what I was getting with all of this is the bookshelves are essentially huge diffusion panels. Odds are your room is even better acoustically "treated," albeit with usable objects like books than the issue the hyper might have with his center image.

Yup... I guess that's what I am saying... maybe all you need is very little 'treating'... like perhaps a diffusion panel here and there.. and not too many absorbers... i find a lot of treated room completely dead.... you don't get the 'live' feeling that I am getting from my library...

That is a good point. Over treating can be just as bad as no treatments at all. My original HT setup was in a huge very open family room with 20' ceilings. It was a huge space but when playing music is sounded fantastic. It was essentially a concert hall at home. Now for movies/HT it was not so great but for music, I have never heard a system I like better including the current one.

I would love to hear the Noesis in that kind of space as I'm sure they would sound better than my Revel Performas and JL subs did in that room.
post #11262 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperM3 View Post

You know, I have no clue. I think I have it set to automatic or something. The thing is, Im listening to music through youtube streaming through my oppo. So the whole system thinks its in DVD mode not the pure-direct mode I would typically run a CD in. I have to go back tonight and check and see what I actually run it through.

Ok, we need to work on this. I have a feeling there are some settings that could alleviate your situation completely. Also, streaming youtube is not going to give you the best HQ experience in most cases. Just sayin
post #11263 of 18328
Hey guys, what do you see, hear, and or measure for dispersion with the 212s? I see you rig the L/R vertical, and the center horizontal. Can they have identical dispersion in both positions? What do they crossover at? I don't find much on these questions on the JTR site.
post #11264 of 18328
^^ Many of us with AT screens have the center channel vertical like the L&R's. The horn has a 60/40 (H/V) dispersion pattern and can be rotated 90 degrees for a horizontal configuration.

The Noesis Compression Driver handles both high and mid-range frequencies and plays down to approx 400Hz.. Woofers play 400Hz down to the high-pass.
post #11265 of 18328
And I believe the recommended high-pass filters are as follows:
  • 228HT - 80 Hz
  • 212 HT-LP (sealed) - 80 Hz
  • 212 HT - 70 Hz
post #11266 of 18328
Here is my raw sub response. And so it begins. Treatments, mini dsp, audyssey. Few tools to work with.
post #11267 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Here is my raw sub response. And so it begins. Treatments, mini dsp, audyssey. Few tools to work with.
looks pretty good. what is your xo set at? is the minidsp in the chain yet?
post #11268 of 18328
Ok so I checked the Sherbourn PA 7350 with my little 91db sensitivity definitive technology monitors and there was a tiny bit of noise only audible from 2ft. Funny thing is one was a hum and one was a buzz. I hope it's not a issue when I get JTR speakers. Now here is the cool thing. There was a nice audible difference in SQ. The 7350 had clearer voices, the S's off the lips were very detailed. Very cool. The best was you could make out all the differences in instruments. Particularly the higher frequency drums. My Denon didn't sound bad by any means but you may not have noticed the drums with it. It was a little more blurred all together rather than a little more detailed and separate with the 7350. It make me think of the percussion music that is played to demo music. Must be better on better speakers right?
post #11269 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post

looks pretty good. what is your xo set at? is the minidsp in the chain yet?

No mini dsp, audyssey or anything on that. I will implement those as well as some room treatments and maybe play around with placement. Although I do like where they are at so I am gonna try and make them work there. They are crossed to a couple little monitors that will be used for surround duty. Waiting on some JBL driver rebuilds at the moment.
post #11270 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

No mini dsp, audyssey or anything on that. I will implement those as well as some room treatments and maybe play around with placement. Although I do like where they are at so I am gonna try and make them work there. They are crossed to a couple little monitors that will be used for surround duty. Waiting on some JBL driver rebuilds at the moment.
very good untouched response:)
post #11271 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

^^ Many of us with AT screens have the center channel vertical like the L&R's. The horn has a 60/40 (H/V) dispersion pattern and can be rotated 90 degrees for a horizontal configuration.

The Noesis Compression Driver handles both high and mid-range frequencies and plays down to approx 400Hz.. Woofers play 400Hz down to the high-pass.

Was it crossed at 400hz or 300hz? If I remembered correctly, Jeff mentioned he crossed the compression drivers at 300hz...
post #11272 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

Was it crossed at 400hz or 300hz? If I remembered correctly, Jeff mentioned he crossed the compression drivers at 300hz...
Jeff specs are a direct copy of how BMS list the Coaxial CD(4593nd). If one reads the specs on the 18Sound horn that the CD is attached to it leaves me to believe that even though this CD can be XO as low as 400hz (300hz) when combined with the horn he is probably XO over somewhere between 600hz - 800hz. On the same note the 228 CD can be XO as low as 1000hz (1.2khz) but when combined with the horn would probably be somewhere between 1200hz -1400hz.
IMO these #s make more sense than crossing over at the lowest possible 400hz (300hz) & 1000hz (1.2khz). If he is going this low then his XO work is Unmatched.
This is just a guess based on the below links to the CDs & horns.
Chris

212 CD http://bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=bms_4593nd
212 Horn http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product_simple&pid=268
228 CD http://bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=bms_4547nd
228 Horn http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product_simple&pid=275
Edited by countryWV - 10/11/13 at 5:17am
post #11273 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Here is my raw sub response. And so it begins. Treatments, mini dsp, audyssey. Few tools to work with.

Excellent low end extension you are getting there too!!! Wonderful!! I too am curious where the low pass is set? Seems like around 40hz or so... That's a little low.

Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


Jeff specs are a direct copy of how BMS list the Coaxial CD(4593nd). If one reads the specs on the 18Sound horn that the CD is attached to it leaves me to believe that even though this CD can be XO as low as 400hz (300hz) when combined with the horn he is probably XO over somewhere between 600hz - 800hz. On the same note the 228 CD can be XO as low as 1000hz (1.2khz) but when combined with the horn would probably be somewhere between 1200hz -1400hz.
IMO these #s make more sense than crossing over at the lowest possible 400hz (300hz) & 1000hz (1.2khz). If he is going this low then his XO work is Unmatched.
This is just a guess based on the below links to the CDs & horns.
Chris

212 CD http://bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=bms_4593nd
212 Horn http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product_simple&pid=268
228 CD http://bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=bms_4547nd
228 Horn http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product_simple&pid=275

I wouldn't bite on 800hz. The horn and CD combo is certainly good enough down to 400hz but I would say 500hz is about right, 600hz at the MOST. You get up near 800hz and you are not using the two way CD near enough, and the benefit of it goes out the window.
post #11274 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


Jeff specs are a direct copy of how BMS list the Coaxial CD(4593nd). If one reads the specs on the 18Sound horn that the CD is attached to it leaves me to believe that even though this CD can be XO as low as 400hz (300hz) when combined with the horn he is probably XO over somewhere between 600hz - 800hz. On the same note the 228 CD can be XO as low as 1000hz (1.2khz) but when combined with the horn would probably be somewhere between 1200hz -1400hz.
IMO these #s make more sense than crossing over at the lowest possible 400hz (300hz) & 1000hz (1.2khz). If he is going this low then his XO work is Unmatched.
This is just a guess based on the below links to the CDs & horns.
Chris

212 CD http://bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=bms_4593nd
212 Horn http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product_simple&pid=268
228 CD http://bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=bms_4547nd
228 Horn http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product_simple&pid=275

He wasn't just quoting on the capability of the BMS compression driver specs... he specifically said that 'he' crossed them at 300hz (or, it could have been 400hz as Rob said). I believe this is one of the reason vocals sounds so damn good.. most if not all of a female's vocals comes direct from the horn... one source.. That's why i loved listening to female vocals on the Noesis....
post #11275 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Excellent low end extension you are getting there too!!! Wonderful!! I too am curious where the low pass is set? Seems like around 40hz or so... That's a little low.
I wouldn't bite on 800hz. The horn and CD combo is certainly good enough down to 400hz but I would say 500hz is about right, 600hz at the MOST. You get up near 800hz and you are not using the two way CD near enough, and the benefit of it goes out the window.
The horn seems to be the limiting factor (800hz). The CD should need a bigger horn to pull off 300hz - 400hz.
I assume that with the proper XO work and speaker design the 212 may be able to do it but reading the JTR websites specs it says "horn loading down to 400hz". That is not really a definitive statement.smile.gif
These CDs that Jeff uses are capable of so much more than what are HT demands may be. I would think that Concert size cabinets with a horn as big as a kitchen sink could pull off the lowest XO but that 18 sound horn does not seem big enough.
Jeff is No Chris Angel but his XO work is Audio Magic none the less so anything could be possible.
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 10/11/13 at 8:22am
post #11276 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

He wasn't just quoting on the capability of the BMS compression driver specs... he specifically said that 'he' crossed them at 300hz (or, it could have been 400hz as Rob said). I believe this is one of the reason vocals sounds so damn good.. most if not all of a female's vocals comes direct from the horn... one source.. That's why i loved listening to female vocals on the Noesis....
If that is a direct quote from him then I will definitely Accept it as the Gospel. Jeff would be the one who knows so No disagreement there.smile.gif

It is just hard to Understand how he can pull off the min XO with that small of a horn compared to other much larger pro design horn. smile.gif
I think most of why the vocals sound so good is that the CDs mid frequency handles 300hz - 7000hz while the other part handles the highs from 6000hz - 22000hz. The middle/high XO is 6300hz. It is the range that the 2 in 1 coaxial Compression Driver cover individually that make it special. http://bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=4594nd_specification0
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 10/11/13 at 7:56am
post #11277 of 18328
Horn loaded doesn't necessarily mean "horn used" The benefit of the horns directivity would likely be breaking up down that low, but that doesn't mean the driver's response is.
post #11278 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Ok so I checked the Sherbourn PA 7350 with my little 91db sensitivity definitive technology monitors and there was a tiny bit of noise only audible from 2ft. Funny thing is one was a hum and one was a buzz. I hope it's not a issue when I get JTR speakers. Now here is the cool thing. There was a nice audible difference in SQ. The 7350 had clearer voices, the S's off the lips were very detailed. Very cool. The best was you could make out all the differences in instruments. Particularly the higher frequency drums. My Denon didn't sound bad by any means but you may not have noticed the drums with it. It was a little more blurred all together rather than a little more detailed and separate with the 7350. It make me think of the percussion music that is played to demo music. Must be better on better speakers right?

The magic of a new component ... smile.gif
post #11279 of 18328
Thanks guys. I guess I'm just not getting how the 228 and 212 components are configured...where what is. Is the 228HT a 2-way design, and if so, crossing where? I think most of your comments above were responding to my questions about the 212. Anybody have a diagram and/or photos of the 228HT? These must be very new products for there to be no images on the website yet.

Where I'm headed with all this is to understand the 228HT's dispersion charactersitics across its spectral range. I understand that the horn can be rotated, but that's not the whole story...unless I'm not understanding something about how these models work/perform in this respect.
post #11280 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

Thanks guys. I guess I'm just not getting how the 228 and 212 components are configured...where what is. Is the 228HT a 2-way design, and if so, crossing where? I think most of your comments above were responding to my questions about the 212. Anybody have a diagram and/or photos of the 228HT? These must be very new products for there to be no images on the website yet.

Where I'm headed with all this is to understand the 228HT's dispersion charactersitics across its spectral range. I understand that the horn can be rotated, but that's not the whole story...unless I'm not understanding something about how these models work/perform in this respect.


Go into the forum section on the JTR webpage or check out the JTR Facebook page and there will be photos of both the 228HT and 212HT.
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