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Official JTR speaker thread - Page 434

post #12991 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I'm all ears ...

Fantastic!, glad you asked. Like you, I'm the KISS kind of guy. The thing is that the problem is quite simple, with an apparently complex solution. I think we can agree on that, no? So I was thinking about it and a solution hit me - a way to simplify the problem while reducing the chance of failure.

First, the bird. I mean seriously, how are we to be sure it's going to be hungry? If its not hungry, there will be no crumbs to fill the cup. I say replace the bird and toss the bread directly into the cup.

Secondly, the rocket. Seriously? A simple small firecracker that causes a stone to drop, cutting the string, is clearly a better solution.

I know, sometimes it takes a fresh look at an old problem to cut through the fog. I hope I was able to help and thanks for asking.

biggrin.gif
post #12992 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Fantastic!, glad you asked. Like you, I'm the KISS kind of guy. The thing is that the problem is quite simple, with an apparently complex solution. I think we can agree on that, no? So I was thinking about it and a solution hit me - a way to simplify the problem while reducing the chance of failure.

First, the bird. I mean seriously, how are we to be sure it's going to be hungry? If its not hungry, there will be no crumbs to fill the cup. I say replace the bird and toss the bread directly into the cup.

Secondly, the rocket. Seriously? A simple small firecracker that causes a stone to drop, cutting the string, is clearly a better solution.

I know, sometimes it takes a fresh look at an old problem to cut through the fog. I hope I was able to help and thanks for asking.

biggrin.gif

Obviously, I gave you too much credit. You are not a critical thinker nor a KISS kind of guy. The bird is a crucial element and a brute force bread toss will fail due to the poor aerodynamic properties of bread rolleyes.gif.

Further, a rock is an absurd choice for string cutting. The mini scythe/rocket is a brilliant solution for the all-important string cut.

Back to the drawing board Doc (if you even are doctor) ... rolleyes.gif
post #12993 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Obviously, I gave you too much credit.

Clearly. tongue.gif
post #12994 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

i think the 215 will have buyers in the 2 ch audio crowd, those with the simple source, preamp, and 2ch amplifiers, those that prefer not to use subs.
The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to believe this is not a great strategy for jtr. This certainly may be inaccurate, but it seems to me that 2 channel centric guys are the ones that are more likely to turn their noses up at speakers with a pro audio background and horns in general. I hope I'm wrong about that but I can't help but wonder if all this excitement will actually translate into a meaningful amount of sales for jtr. Back to eyeing an upgrade.smile.gif
post #12995 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmryan821 View Post

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to believe this is not a great strategy for jtr. This certainly may be inaccurate, but it seems to me that 2 channel centric guys are the ones that are more likely to turn their noses up at speakers with a pro audio background and horns in general. I hope I'm wrong about that but I can't help but wonder if all this excitement will actually translate into a meaningful amount of sales for jtr. Back to eyeing an upgrade.smile.gif

The saving grace for a product like this is that it is built to order. Jeff won't have to keep a ton of these lying around eating up capital and warehouse space.
post #12996 of 18548
Not in the slightest. Some of the finest 2 channel setups use some rather large horns. Klipsch legacy speakers all use them as well. Horns are well loved still in the "Audiophile" world. Dome tweeters are for rookies

post #12997 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

The saving grace for a product like this is that it is built to order. Jeff won't have to keep a ton of these lying around eating up capital and warehouse space.
Good point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Not in the slightest. Some of the finest 2 channel setups use some rather large horns. Klipsch legacy speakers all use them as well. Horns are well loved still in the "Audiophile" world. Dome tweeters are for rookies

I hope you're correct but for every mention of horns such as those I feel like I've read 10 instances of people dismissing horns for "horn honk."
post #12998 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmryan821 View Post

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to believe this is not a great strategy for jtr. This certainly may be inaccurate, but it seems to me that 2 channel centric guys are the ones that are more likely to turn their noses up at speakers with a pro audio background and horns in general. I hope I'm wrong about that but I can't help but wonder if all this excitement will actually translate into a meaningful amount of sales for jtr. Back to eyeing an upgrade.smile.gif
The ones who turn up their noses will be the same ones that miss out.wink.gif Old School Audio way of thinking is dying fast. Its either adapt or bury your head cause its changing regardless.smile.gif

Chris
post #12999 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmryan821 View Post

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to believe this is not a great strategy for jtr. This certainly may be inaccurate, but it seems to me that 2 channel centric guys are the ones that are more likely to turn their noses up at speakers with a pro audio background and horns in general. I hope I'm wrong about that but I can't help but wonder if all this excitement will actually translate into a meaningful amount of sales for jtr. Back to eyeing an upgrade.smile.gif

While big sales would be great, I don't think that is what motivates Jeff. In my discussions with him he builds these products because he is interested in pushing the envelope. He thinks it's fun and a personal challenge to take a slightly different path to great sounding speakers.

Aesthetics issues aside, I can't imagine any objective person listening to a properly setup Noesis pair with subs not feeling they have heard a truly great two channel setup. The 210-215 speakers are simply an attempt to remove the "with subs" caveat. Even with all of the MC integration issues, I can't wait to hear a pair of the 215 speakers doing music sans subs ... cool.gif
post #13000 of 18548
I went away for a couple days and I saw over a hundred posts and didn't have time to read so I let 2 more days pass and there were over 250 unread posts...damn. So it seems that there is definitely some interest in a 2 channel version although due to size, I'm not one of them. If I had a dedicated theater like some of you...then maybe I'd be interested. Now my dad does have a dedicated home theater and is thinking of buying JTR speakers so I might get to hear some 215s after all. smile.gif

Cmryan821 - If JTR was a normal company with inventory then I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you. However, since Jeff (secretary, designer, builder, etc. smile.gif) builds all of his speakers to order after the speakers are paid for, the investment is only the initial design and lining up cabinet finishing. Regardless of the demand, right now Jeff has a hole in his line up that a full range speaker will address. Some will buy, some won't but at least JTR can't simply be dismissed for not having a full range. Also, much of the JTR marketing to this point has been at listening GetToGethers and sometimes JTR is at a disadvantage as others have mentioned when the 212s are put up against full range speakers. There will no longer need to be a caveat at such settings. I liken it to Porsche and their new electric sports car. They will sell very few of their top of the line but it will get some talk going and will ultimately bring people to think of Porsche as an option. Actually, very few buy the almost $200,000 Porsche 911 Turbo but having that Turbo to lust after brings people in to buy a 911 even if they can't afford their dream 911 Turbo. (As a side note, I'd love to have a Porsche 911 Turbo or Porsche Panamera Turbo). JTR may sell very few but having a no holds barred speaker will get some talk and result in the "lesser" speakers getting more sales simply due to the top of the line offering.
Edited by dgage - 11/23/13 at 8:45am
post #13001 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmryan821 View Post

Good point.
I hope you're correct but for every mention of horns such as those I feel like I've read 10 instances of people dismissing horns for "horn honk."
Since the only horn speakers I have ever heard outside if live events are JTR's I have never heard "horn honk". Can someone describe what the typical complaint is with other company's horns?
post #13002 of 18548
I feel like this is a scene out of a movie where the guy walks in and the record skips and everyone looks angrily at him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


The ones who turn up their noses will be the same ones that miss out.wink.gif
Agreed. The only jtr's I've ever heard are the t8-lp's in my living room and I think they sound outstanding even though they're at the bottom end of jtr's lineup. I've been planning an upgrade to either 212's or 3TX's for a little while, but now the 210 is in my sights as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Aesthetics issues aside, I can't imagine any objective person listening to a properly setup Noesis pair with subs not feeling they have heard a truly great two channel setup. The 210-215 speakers are simply an attempt to remove the "with subs" caveat. Even with all of the MC integration issues, I can't wait to hear a pair of the 215 speakers doing music sans subs ... cool.gif
Again, I agree. I was simply voicing my concern over current customers saying how awesome a new product will be when I'm not so sure how popular it might be with a different audience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post

Cmryan821 - If JTR was a normal company with inventory then I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you. However, since Jeff (secretary, designer, builder, etc. smile.gif) builds all of his speakers to order after the speakers are paid for, the investment is only the initial design and lining up cabinet finishing. Regardless of the demand, right now Jeff has a hole in his line up that a full range speaker will address. Some will buy, some won't but at least JTR can't simply be dismissed for not having a full range. Also, much of the JTR marketing to this point has been at listening GetToGethers and sometimes JTR is at a disadvantage as others have mentioned when the 212s are put up against full range speakers. There will no longer need to be a caveat at such settings. I liken it to Porsche and their new electric sports car. They will sell very few of their top of the line but it will get some talk going and will ultimately bring people to think of Porsche as an option. Actually, very few by the almost $200,000 Porsche 911 Turbo but that having that Turbo to lust after brings people in to buy a 911 even if they can't afford their dream 911 Turbo. (As a side note, I'd love to have a Porsche 911 turbo or Porsche Panamera Turbo). JTR may sell very few but having a no holds barred speaker will get some talk and result in the "lesser" speakers getting more sales simply due to the top of the line offering.
Marketing is certainly not my forte. I got in many discussions (arguments) with my marketing professors over the supposed effectiveness of marketing programs whenever they appeared in the news. So I'll defer to you on the potential benefit of having a huge full range speaker that is designed to draw interest but may not produce much revenue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

Since the only horn speakers I have ever heard outside if live events are JTR's I have never heard "horn honk". Can someone describe what the typical complaint is with other company's horns?
I honestly don't know what "horn honk" is and I just chalked it up to another one of those audiophile terms that seemed to require synesthesia to experience and that I didn't understand. I've heard alot of people call horns shrill. I don't know how many horns those people have heard beyond $100 klipschs, but the "horns are shrill" is usually generalized to all horns.
post #13003 of 18548
I'm willing to bet that Jeffs new speakers will not be bought only by 2 channel guys, just like most full range speakers are not bought by 2 channel guys. It's a mix of everyone. I think His new speakers will do well!
post #13004 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Well here are the specs. I'd say this qualifies as full range.


Introducing the Noesis 215 Tower of Power.
72" tall, 17" wide, 22.5" deep.+/-3db 18hz-24khz

And, I'll be getting three of them. Probably keeping the OS' s too and that pretty much guarantees the eventual destruction of my home.
Wish me luck ... smile.gif
. Rob sounds like a good project smile.gif - of course if you decide to sell your 212s keep me in mind. I will gladly drive the 4 miles.
post #13005 of 18548
I can't figure out why my measurements look so weird. The speakers sound great, supper detailed but measure very bad. Im very confused. I have a couple of 2oyr old JBL speakers that measure flat out to 20,000khz.

post #13006 of 18548
So let me get this straight... These full range speakers ideally for 2 ch use? Because I'm more of a 70 movies 30 music. I really like the height of the 210. Anyway what ever, I'm not going to get rid of my quads.
post #13007 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I agree with all this. Theres a good reason the HT world is using separate sub system. It's better...... Cause I said so! tongue.gif

To be honest, I'll still xover my system at 80hz, I only want the new mains so that when I'm just casual gaming, I can have some bass without turning on all my subs and amps.

If I were to have these 215s for the front soundstage I would keep my subs and set the xover to something between 40hz ~ 80hz for all TV & movies and then I would set the LR speakers to Full Range in the Stereo option in my Denon pre/pro 4311 and enjoy. Haven't decided what I would do for multi-channel music but it is fun thinking about.
post #13008 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

I can't figure out why my measurements look so weird. The speakers sound great, supper detailed but measure very bad. Im very confused. I have a couple of 2oyr old JBL speakers that measure flat out to 20,000khz.


No, they don't biggrin.gif

Is that FR at the LP? And what mic/software you using?
post #13009 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

I can't figure out why my measurements look so weird. The speakers sound great, supper detailed but measure very bad. Im very confused. I have a couple of 2oyr old JBL speakers that measure flat out to 20,000khz.



Woah!! Something has to be wrong, that would sound terrible if that's how the speakers really measured!

I would think your speakers would sound loud (not pleasant loud either) at all volumes if this were accurate.

Like Doc asked I'm curious to know what you are using.
post #13010 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

I can't figure out why my measurements look so weird. The speakers sound great, supper detailed but measure very bad. Im very confused. I have a couple of 2oyr old JBL speakers that measure flat out to 20,000khz.


Looks like there might be an issue with the wiring, CD or the crossover or, the components themselves. Time to pull the coax's and talk a look for anything obvious.
post #13011 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post

. Rob sounds like a good project smile.gif - of course if you decide to sell your 212s keep me in mind. I will gladly drive the 4 miles.

Hi Scott, I'm going to have a GTG in late March and you need to come by for a listen. Actually before that because I need help with my HTPC (I'll supply the beer).

Re the Noesis, I'm afraid they are already spoken for. smile.gif
post #13012 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Looks like there might be an issue with the wiring, CD or the crossover or, the components themselves. Time to pull the coax's and talk a look for anything obvious.

Ok guys, I found out the left Selenium D220ti driver is not functioning correctly. The mid it is mounted with isn't functioning correctly either. Basically they are giving a half ass effort of working and sound a bit muffled obviously with the rolloff at 2k. I pulled it out and checked the wiring and it is right. Jeff had his crossovers marked correctly and it was easy to see the positive and negatives were correct. I was listening to a mono voice track earlier that is designed simply for imaging directly in the middle and I kept thinking the sound was to the left of the tv lol! Well once I got measuring with REW in which you measure one speaker plus the sub at a time and found that graph above. Not a huge deal considering I was planning on buying the upgrade kit from Jeff but I was hoping to resale these current drivers. I did see the drivers had been pulled out and a few of the female wire threads were gone and one looked like it was mangled out of there. I will probably either just screw it in directly or get some more of the female wire threads and just rotate the mounting to accommodate. So I moved them to the back of the room for now. These are going to be big ass surround speakers though for a small room. Glad I have a cool fiancee!
post #13013 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Hi Scott, I'm going to have a GTG in late March and you need to come by for a listen. Actually before that because I need help with my HTPC (I'll supply the beer).

Re the Noesis, I'm afraid they are already spoken for. smile.gif
I knew those would not take long to sell. I mentioned I might be selling my T8's and they were sold within hours.
post #13014 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Ok guys, I found out the left Selenium D220ti driver is not functioning correctly. The mid it is mounted with isn't functioning correctly either. Basically they are giving a half ass effort of working and sound a bit muffled obviously with the rolloff at 2k. I pulled it out and checked the wiring and it is right. Jeff had his crossovers marked correctly and it was easy to see the positive and negatives were correct. I was listening to a mono voice track earlier that is designed simply for imaging directly in the middle and I kept thinking the sound was to the left of the tv lol! Well once I got measuring with REW in which you measure one speaker plus the sub at a time and found that graph above. Not a huge deal considering I was planning on buying the upgrade kit from Jeff but I was hoping to resale these current drivers. I did see the drivers had been pulled out and a few of the female wire threads were gone and one looked like it was mangled out of there. I will probably either just screw it in directly or get some more of the female wire threads and just rotate the mounting to accommodate. So I moved them to the back of the room for now. These are going to be big ass surround speakers though for a small room. Glad I have a cool fiancee!
Yeah. My wife vetoed my plans for T8 surrounds. Oh well I hear my new Slanted 8's will be just as good as my 2010 T8's. Especially in my small room.
post #13015 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

Yeah. My wife vetoed my plans for T8 surrounds. Oh well I hear my new Slanted 8's will be just as good as my 2010 T8's. Especially in my small room.


The CD's used in the current Triples and Singles is a very nice speaker. I think it is the same model as the Noesis 228.
post #13016 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

The CD's used in the current Triples and Singles is a very nice speaker. I think it is the same model as the Noesis 228.

Yes, even after buying these and the kits I will have basically brand new vented triple 8's! And for much less, about half, than a brand new set :roll eyes: I do think these older JTR enclosures are cool with the imprinted logo, but we are trying to figure out how the hell to put these as surrounds!!!! Big!!!
post #13017 of 18548
Hey guys, I need some recommendations. I am gonna do an AV rack on the back right side of my room behind the seating. it will need to be about 3.5 ft tall. I only have my big Sherbourn PA 7350 amp, Denon AVR, Power conditioner, Blu Ray player, PS3, and a few other small items. Even with a few inches of ventilation they wouldn't take any more than 3ft. I figure if I can get it right at 3.5 ft then I can set my Triple 8 right surround speaker on it. I will continue to use google but I just don't know the keywords to search yet and yield some good finds biggrin.gif
post #13018 of 18548
does anyone know if Jeff answers calls on sundays? I need to put in my order for 6 veneered slanted 8hts.
post #13019 of 18548
I'm sure he is currently sleeping. wink.gif I'd try this afternoon, I'm sure he will answer.
post #13020 of 18548
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

does anyone know if Jeff answers calls on sundays? I need to put in my order for 6 veneered slanted 8hts.

I'd give it a try, I bet he is basically living there as of late
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