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Official JTR speaker thread - Page 450

post #13471 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Nice FR. What are you using to get that house curve?

Using my Open DRC-AN unit from mini dsp. I add a low shelf filter at 50hz of 4.5db and a Q of 1.0. This is personal taste and can be shifted. I also have my Submersives in PGM1 and change to PGM 2 after Audyssey which gives a 3db bump below about 45hz. So my shelf ends up around 9db rise at 30hz. After the shelf filter is set I take my raw response then apply cutting only to get as flat as possible. It is important to cut only as applying peak boost filters in nulls will only make very negative effects in the time domain measurements which in reality tell a lot more about our sound then a basic FR response. In REW we see this with the Waterfall and Spectrogram measurements. I actually do add a 15hz 4db boost to get flat but my thinking is down that low you would need 7ft deep pink fluffy bass traps to have an effect and I will never do so what the heck...My time decay, or any of us, down that low will never look good. No big deal. After I have applied the low shelf filter and the peak cut filters I run Audyssey and it flattens out even more. Very flat for me at this point. I then switch the Submersives to PGM 2, un-bypass the low shelf filter (You want to bypass before running Audyssey or it will try and flatten it out). And you are done! Without the PGM feature on the Submersives one can simply ad a couple more db to the low shelf filter. smile.gif

It has been recommended to me to apply an LT down low witch cab be done in the advanced bi quad settings and filters but I know nothing about that yet.
post #13472 of 18717
Thanks. I really haven't bothered with anything like that since I'm at a crossover of 60 Hz right now with my LCR and it's just not a big enough part of the FR to bother with all that. I just raised my subwoofer trims about 5-6 dB.

The information I've been using to guide me has been Harman's work which seems to show a strong preference for a FLAT FR that is TILTED to arrive at approx. 10 dB higher bass at 20 Hz than at 16k Hz(or numbers very close to that). The only only processors that I've been able to find that have the capability to create a curve like that are those with Dirac or Trinnov. The other option is multiple AntiMode Dual Core 2.0's since I think they can be linked.
post #13473 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Thanks. I really haven't bothered with anything like that since I'm at a crossover of 60 Hz right now with my LCR and it's just not a big enough part of the FR to bother with all that. I just raised my subwoofer trims about 5-6 dB.

The information I've been using to guide me has been Harman's work which seems to show a strong preference for a FLAT FR that is TILTED to arrive at approx. 10 dB higher bass at 20 Hz than at 16k Hz(or numbers very close to that). The only only processors that I've been able to find that have the capability to create a curve like that are those with Dirac or Trinnov. The other option is multiple AntiMode Dual Core 2.0's since I think they can be linked.

Yes I hear ya. I believe in the Harmon curve as well. Maybe a tad more bass since I'm a bass addict! But I think that is a good foundation and theology. But I could do my low end house curve and then use the Audyssey movie curve and get a "kinda" Harmon curve. It would slant down for your low end house curve until about 80-100hz, then flat to 16,000 and then the Audyssey movie curve tails the high end...
post #13474 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Using my Open DRC-AN unit from mini dsp. I add a low shelf filter at 50hz of 4.5db and a Q of 1.0. This is personal taste and can be shifted. I also have my Submersives in PGM1 and change to PGM 2 after Audyssey which gives a 3db bump below about 45hz. So my shelf ends up around 9db rise at 30hz. After the shelf filter is set I take my raw response then apply cutting only to get as flat as possible. It is important to cut only as applying peak boost filters in nulls will only make very negative effects in the time domain measurements which in reality tell a lot more about our sound then a basic FR response. In REW we see this with the Waterfall and Spectrogram measurements. I actually do add a 15hz 4db boost to get flat but my thinking is down that low you would need 7ft deep pink fluffy bass traps to have an effect and I will never do so what the heck...My time decay, or any of us, down that low will never look good. No big deal. After I have applied the low shelf filter and the peak cut filters I run Audyssey and it flattens out even more. Very flat for me at this point. I then switch the Submersives to PGM 2, un-bypass the low shelf filter (You want to bypass before running Audyssey or it will try and flatten it out). And you are done! Without the PGM feature on the Submersives one can simply ad a couple more db to the low shelf filter. smile.gif

It has been recommended to me to apply an LT down low witch cab be done in the advanced bi quad settings and filters but I know nothing about that yet.
I think I read it wrong, but did you say you boost by 25db down low? Aren't you afraid of blowing your driver up?
post #13475 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Yes I hear ya. I believe in the Harmon curve as well. Maybe a tad more bass since I'm a bass addict! But I think that is a good foundation and theology. But I could do my low end house curve and then use the Audyssey movie curve and get a "kinda" Harmon curve. It would slant down for your low end house curve until about 80-100hz, then flat to 16,000 and then the Audyssey movie curve tails the high end...

Yes, no doubt. That really is the best that could be done. biggrin.gif
post #13476 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

No. You have to measure the SPL with an accurate meter while running the AVR test tones. The difference between 75 dB and your measured SPL is the offset on the MV control that will give you reference level.

So if trim is a minus 12 and SPL measurement reads 82, then -7 on the MV control will give you reference.

Also, the other speakers in your system with different sensitivities, if they're not maxed out, would need to be adjusted 7 dB higher to compensate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

RLO of -10 was given only as an example.

Once you understand what's going on the numbers will make sense.

When Audyssey measures the SPL at the MLP it attempts to set the AVR individual speaker gains at the MLP to 75 dB. Due to amp gains designed for relatively insensitive speakers, the AVR speaker trims will be significantly negative with highly sensitive speakers. If the required trim reduction is beyond the available range of the AVR, Audyssey simply sets the trims to full stop(typically -12 dB to -15 dB) and calls it a day. The problem is if Audyssey sets to an AVR maximum of -12 dB, then we don't know what level it really wanted to set. So that value could have been -13 dB or -18 dB, we don't know.

So lets apply that example. If we leave the trims maxed out after an Audyssey calibration and then measure the SPL of the AVR speaker test tones at the MLP we can determine where Audyssey would have set the trims. If 80 dB is measured at the MLP then Audyssey really wanted to set the AVR trim to -17, but couldn't. So we now have a number to use to either choose an attenuator or set the RLO. What we know is because the trim should be set at -17 dB, but Audyssey could only set it to -12 dB, the speaker will be 5 dB too loud when the MV control is at 0.

If you want to use RLO, then we need to decrease the MV control by -5 dB to compensate. That would give reference level volume at a MV set at -5 dB for those speakers. But if you also have less sensitive speakers in your system that were set by Audyssey correctly within the adjustment range of the AVR, then they will be 5 dB under reference with the MV at -5 dB. So those trims need to be adjusted 5 dB louder to compensate.

If you're feeding an external amp and want to use attenuators at the line level, then you just need to select an attenuator, -5 dB in this case, so the line level input is reduced 5 dB into the amp. Then, when Audyssey measures it will set the speaker trim to -12. No compensation of other speakers would be required and reference level would be at 0 on the MV control. Typically, you wouldn't want to cut it that close, so if a -10 dB attenuator were used Audyssey would set the AVR trim to -7 dB (-17 dB + 10 dB = -7 dB).

I know you're already aware of much of the info above, but not sure where the confusion lies so just trying to be complete. Hope that helps.

Let me see if I understand this, [my speakers are T12 LCR/ DefTech ProMonitor 1000 Surrounds & Seaton HP + & Slave subs] in my case using a Denon AVR4311 that maxes at -12db and using the audyssey pro kit with 12 measurements my results are as follows: LF -12, C -12, RF -9, SL -1.5, SR 0 & Sub -5. If I use a Rat Shack digital SPL meter on tripod at MLP with AVR test tones & MV at 0 I get LF 74 db, C 74 db, RF 75 db, SL 71 db, SR 71 db & Sub 70 db. I realize that the rat shack meter is not as precise as the pro mic so 74 db might be 76 db actually, but shouldn't they all be level matched to the same db? Or are the surrounds set 3 - 4 db lower? and what about the sub it is 4 - 5 db lower?
post #13477 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post


Let me see if I understand this, [my speakers are T12 LCR/ DefTech ProMonitor 1000 Surrounds & Seaton HP + & Slave subs] in my case using a Denon AVR4311 that maxes at -12db and using the audyssey pro kit with 12 measurements my results are as follows: LF -12, C -12, RF -9, SL -1.5, SR 0 & Sub -5. If I use a Rat Shack digital SPL meter on tripod at MLP with AVR test tones & MV at 0 I get LF 74 db, C 74 db, RF 75 db, SL 71 db, SR 71 db & Sub 70 db. I realize that the rat shack meter is not as precise as the pro mic so 74 db might be 76 db actually, but shouldn't they all be level matched to the same db? Or are the surrounds set 3 - 4 db lower? and what about the sub it is 4 - 5 db lower?

My first reply incorrect. At computer now and I see I didn't pick up on the inconsistencies with the trims and SPL. Lesson: Don't reply on phone when out with kids smile.gif.

Your numbers don't make a lot of sense. At first I read it as all your T12's were maxed out of trim and reading 75 dB. I see that's not the case. I don't trust your RS meter at this point. It is possible that the Pro calibration is screwed up, but I don't think I've ever seen inconsistent values like that with my kit. Either the RF of 75 dB is wrong or the SL and SR of 71 dB is wrong. The RS meter is typically not absolutely correct, but usually relatively correct. The pro mic is usually correct both ways.

I would run a quick 3 position Pro cal again and see what the numbers are since things don't seem right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post


but shouldn't they all be level matched to the same db? Or are the surrounds set 3 - 4 db lower? and what about the sub it is 4 - 5 db lower?

They should all be level matched at the same dB after a Pro calibration

Edit: Oh, and BTW, nice system you have there. It really deserves a nice calibrated mic to measure it and is a small investment compared to what you've spent. As far as value/SQ ratio goes, measuring gear has the highest return on investment in audio IMO.
Edited by Gooddoc - 12/9/13 at 5:46pm
post #13478 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

My first reply incorrect. At computer now and I see I didn't pick up on the inconsistencies with the trims and SPL. Lesson: Don't reply on phone when out with kids smile.gif.

Your numbers don't make a lot of sense. At first I read it as all your T12's were maxed out of trim and reading 75 dB. I see that's not the case. I don't trust your RS meter at this point. It is possible that the Pro calibration is screwed up, but I don't think I've ever seen inconsistent values like that with my kit. Either the RF of 75 dB is wrong or the SL and SR of 71 dB is wrong. The RS meter is typically not absolutely correct, but usually relatively correct. The pro mic is usually correct both ways.

I would run a quick 3 position Pro cal again and see what the numbers are since things don't seem right.
They should all be level matched at the same dB after a Pro calibration

Edit: Oh, and BTW, nice system you have there. It really deserves a nice calibrated mic to measure it and is a small investment compared to what you've spent. As far as value/SQ ratio goes, measuring gear has the highest return on investment in audio IMO.
I do have a mini dsp Umik-1 USB mic to use with REW, just haven't used it yet:D. I have just read that some nearfield or close to nearfield rooms the surrounds are set 2 db lower which would be pretty close to what I am seeing with those measurements (I am unsure if my room would qualify as nearfield 14' X 14' with left side wall open and surrounds are 7.5' & 8' from MLP) my surrounds are at, although that doesn't explain the RF being 1 db higher. I have listened by ear and my RF is louder. I have adjusted it by -1.5 db and it sounds and measures the same as the LF & C speakers. I will measure again tonight to see if I get different measurements.
post #13479 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post

I do have a mini dsp Umik-1 USB mic to use with REW, just haven't used it yet:D. I have just read that some nearfield or close to nearfield rooms the surrounds are set 2 db lower which would be pretty close to what I am seeing with those measurements (I am unsure if my room would qualify as nearfield 14' X 14' with left side wall open and surrounds are 7.5' & 8' from MLP) my surrounds are at, although that doesn't explain the RF being 1 db higher. I have listened by ear and my RF is louder. I have adjusted it by -1.5 db and it sounds and measures the same as the LF & C speakers. I will measure again tonight to see if I get different measurements.

There is no reason(I'm aware of) Audyssey would set your surrounds 2 dB low. What is the reasoning behind that? "Nearfield" is a relative term, but my surrounds are 4 ft from my seating and all my speakers are set at 75 dB.

Please post repeat numbers with the Umik biggrin.gif. You can't use an RS meter to verify Pro measurements.
Edited by Gooddoc - 12/9/13 at 6:21pm
post #13480 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

There is no reason(I'm aware of) Audyssey would set your surrounds 2 dB low. What is the reasoning behind that? "Nearfield" is a relative term, but my surrounds are 4 ft from my seating and all my speakers are set at 75 dB.

Please post repeat numbers with the Umik biggrin.gif. You can't use an RS meter to verify Pro measurements.

Well i have to figure out how to use that Mic and REW so that may take me a day or two. I certainly should be able to level match all 5 speakers to the same en reading on the rat shack meter right. So I will do another audyssey pro measurement with just 6 positions and see if i still get these weird numbers.
post #13481 of 18717
One day while perusing AVS, looking for info on speakers, I came across the JTR speakers. I wasn't actively looking to upgrade, but you know how upgradeitis is! After spending considerable time in the PSA thread, I kept reading posts by jbrown15, and saw that he lived in my metropolitan area.

After contacting jbrown15, we discovered he only lived 12 minutes down the road smile.gif. What made this even better was he owned the two pieces of equipment on my list of possible upgrades: JTR Noesis 228HT, and the PSA XS30 subwoofer. Some messages were exchanged, and I was able to make my way to jbrown15's house on Sunday. jbrown15 (Joe), was a great host and we were able to spend a couple of hours demoing his system.

Now, I'm a novice relative to the knowledge many, many forum members have. I'm continually amazed at how much the guys on AVS know about this hobby. I wanted to share a couple of my observations, and also to thank Joe on the forum here.

Joe has a great space in his basement and he did a considerable amount of the work himself. At present, the space is undergoing a transformation with a soon to be installed AT screen, and some new carpet and A/V rack. The point is, I really liked the space, especially because it's similar in size to mine. Nicely done, Joe!

From reading the specs on the JTR website, I had an idea how big the 228's were, but seeing is believing. The speakers are certainly not small! The 228 on it's side as a center channel looked rather imposing.

As I said earlier, I'm not confident in my ability to analyze how something sounded, and I don't think I have a particularly good ear. I just try to do what everyone says and if it sounds good to me that's all that matters. Let me tell you, these 228s were spectacular. In fact, the whole theatre system sounded unbelievable, including the PSA subs. At higher volumes, the speakers were crystal clear, but I particularly noticed how they sounded at lower volumes. During movie demos all dialogue was easy to understand, and I felt like the sound really brought me "into the movie".

As for music, I probably talked too much, and we were short on time, and were only able to play a few tunes, but The Eagles "Hotel California" sounded just amazing. I generally don't have time to sit and listen to music at home, but I have to say I really enjoyed the few tracks we did hear. If I owned a set of the 228s, I could see myself definitely listening to more music! Indeed, Joe has found that to be his own experience since he got the 228s. I think if a set of speakers can get you to listen to music when you never did before, that's a pretty strong endorsement.

Thanks again to Joe, and I can't wait to see the space again after the current upgrade is complete.
post #13482 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post

Well i have to figure out how to use that Mic and REW so that may take me a day or two. I certainly should be able to level match all 5 speakers to the same en reading on the rat shack meter right. So I will do another audyssey pro measurement with just 6 positions and see if i still get these weird numbers.

Good luck man! Not too hard to get things going with the USB mic. Not nearly as hard as dealing with an external soundcard.
post #13483 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Good luck man! Not too hard to get things going with the USB mic. Not nearly as hard as dealing with an external soundcard.
Thanks I need all the luck I can get! I am sure it is much easier, just every time I start down one of these paths it always involves more time than expected and undoubtedly some frustration and usually more $$$rolleyes.gif
post #13484 of 18717
REW and and mic is all you need. No extra money, just time to learn
post #13485 of 18717
After finally getting my 4 subs optimized in my room the SQ is off the hook. It not only improved my bass, but also the overall clarity of the 212's. Sick.

That's all smile.gif
post #13486 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post


Let me see if I understand this, [my speakers are T12 LCR/ DefTech ProMonitor 1000 Surrounds & Seaton HP + & Slave subs] in my case using a Denon AVR4311 that maxes at -12db and using the audyssey pro kit with 12 measurements my results are as follows: LF -12, C -12, RF -9, SL -1.5, SR 0 & Sub -5. If I use a Rat Shack digital SPL meter on tripod at MLP with AVR test tones & MV at 0 I get LF 74 db, C 74 db, RF 75 db, SL 71 db, SR 71 db & Sub 70 db. I realize that the rat shack meter is not as precise as the pro mic so 74 db might be 76 db actually, but shouldn't they all be level matched to the same db? Or are the surrounds set 3 - 4 db lower? and what about the sub it is 4 - 5 db lower?


Couple situations here:

~Your system is maxing out the trims on your 4311 so they speakers are not going to calibrate correctly until you find a way to trim down your amps. If they have gain knobs, turn them down some, if they don't, you may need in-line attenuators. You don't want your final Aud. results to read out -12 on the trims.

~AVR test tones are PRE-audyssey tones so they don't take into account the equalization that has taken place post audyssey. Yes the tones should be accurate if your system was relatively flat to start with, problem is, most people's aren't. You need to get that REW rig up and start testing to see the results. What you might see is that the RS meter is picking up on a peak in the response that may be 75dB's, while the rest of the response is at 72dB, and my blindly level matching, you are making it worse than it was to start with.

~Yes, the speakers should all level match to the same dB, but the best way to test this is once again with post audyssey pink noise. Using the generator on REW will work much better. running sweeps for each speaker and overlaying them will also show you what you are hearing.

~The sub is pretty typically set too low not only by audyssey standards, but by most people's personal preference as well. This more than likely needs to be bumped up as well smile.gif
post #13487 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

After finally getting my 4 subs optimized in my room the SQ is off the hook. It not only improved my bass, but also the overall clarity of the 212's. Sick.

That's all smile.gif

Great to hear! So what else did you do?
post #13488 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Couple situations here:

~Your system is maxing out the trims on your 4311 so they speakers are not going to calibrate correctly until you find a way to trim down your amps. If they have gain knobs, turn them down some, if they don't, you may need in-line attenuators. You don't want your final Aud. results to read out -12 on the trims.

~AVR test tones are PRE-audyssey tones so they don't take into account the equalization that has taken place post audyssey. Yes the tones should be accurate if your system was relatively flat to start with, problem is, most people's aren't. You need to get that REW rig up and start testing to see the results. What you might see is that the RS meter is picking up on a peak in the response that may be 75dB's, while the rest of the response is at 72dB, and my blindly level matching, you are making it worse than it was to start with.

~Yes, the speakers should all level match to the same dB, but the best way to test this is once again with post audyssey pink noise. Using the generator on REW will work much better. running sweeps for each speaker and overlaying them will also show you what you are hearing.

~The sub is pretty typically set too low not only by audyssey standards, but by most people's personal preference as well. This more than likely needs to be bumped up as well smile.gif
Thanks for the response, I didn't realize that the AVR test tones are PRE-audyssey so that explains a lot (my pre-audyssey response is NOT relatively flat - several peaks & dips particularly with the FL, FR & SL). I can of course buy some in-line attenuators, but I was trying to determine how many db off the maxed speakers were so I could choose the proper attenuator or just add db using the level settings to the speakers not maxed. Are you saying that audyssey can't properly EQ my system because it can't set the the RF & C speakers to the proper levels? If that's the case why all this talk here about just changing the MV to offset for the maxed speakers? I am slowly moving towards learning/understanding how to use REW (actually I am procrastinating) and my usb UMIK-1 mic. - I bought the mic in August but haven't even made an attempt yet to hook up and measure anything. I did print out AustinJerry's guide so guess it's time to speed up the process;)
Edited by HTPCat - 12/10/13 at 8:33am
post #13489 of 18717
I have my reservations that Audyssey can still EQ your individual speaker properly when the trims are maxed, but for SURE it can't get it to level match with the rest of the system this way. I still prefer to see my trim levels somewhere close to zero. A simple 12dB attenuator can do that for you. plain and simple.
post #13490 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post

Thanks for the response, I didn't realize that the AVR test tones are PRE-audyssey so that explains a lot (my pre-audyssey response is NOT relatively flat - several peaks & dips particularly with the FL, FR & SL). I can of course buy some in-line attenuators, but I was trying to determine how many db off the maxed speakers were so I could choose the proper attenuator or just add db using the level settings to the speakers not maxed. Are you saying that audyssey can't properly EQ my system because it can't set the the RF & C speakers to the proper levels? If that's the case why all this talk here about just changing the MV to offset for the maxed speakers? I am slowly moving towards learning/understanding how to use REW (actually I am procrastinating) and my usb UMIK-1 mic. - I bought the mic in August but haven't even made an attempt yet to hook up and measure anything. I did print out AustinJerry's guide so guess it's time to speed up the process;)

Don't buy any attenuators as I have three -15db ones you can try out and keep if they work for you ...


Never mind ... I forgot mine are XLR -F to XLR-M , not RCA and you will need RCA for the Denon.
post #13491 of 18717
Ah, but I have three I don't need anymore. PM me your address if you want and I'll send them out to you.
post #13492 of 18717
just put your levels manually after audyssey is done. attenuators dont do anything other than speaker levels. Do a pro calibration amd overlay the maxed out eq vs the eq with attenuators.... they will be identical. I give customers printouts all the time and run into max out trims quite a bit. Ive yet to see much, if any difference in the overall eq with attenuators inplace, just trim levels and no 0 as reference. save 60$ and dont bother. I have q set of -15 xlr if anyone want them to try out for themselves.
post #13493 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

just put your levels manually after audyssey is done. attenuators dont do anything other than speaker levels. Do a pro calibration amd overlay the maxed out eq vs the eq with attenuators.... they will be identical. I give customers printouts all the time and run into max out trims quite a bit. Ive yet to see much, if any difference in the overall eq with attenuators inplace, just trim levels and no 0 as reference. save 60$ and dont bother. I have q set of -15 xlr if anyone want them to try out for themselves.
I believe you on this, but i need to figure out what db to add to the non maxed out speaker so they are all level matched right.
post #13494 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by stsand View Post

One day while perusing AVS, looking for info on speakers, I came across the JTR speakers. I wasn't actively looking to upgrade, but you know how upgradeitis is! After spending considerable time in the PSA thread, I kept reading posts by jbrown15, and saw that he lived in my metropolitan area.

After contacting jbrown15, we discovered he only lived 12 minutes down the road smile.gif. What made this even better was he owned the two pieces of equipment on my list of possible upgrades: JTR Noesis 228HT, and the PSA XS30 subwoofer. Some messages were exchanged, and I was able to make my way to jbrown15's house on Sunday. jbrown15 (Joe), was a great host and we were able to spend a couple of hours demoing his system.

Now, I'm a novice relative to the knowledge many, many forum members have. I'm continually amazed at how much the guys on AVS know about this hobby. I wanted to share a couple of my observations, and also to thank Joe on the forum here.

Joe has a great space in his basement and he did a considerable amount of the work himself. At present, the space is undergoing a transformation with a soon to be installed AT screen, and some new carpet and A/V rack. The point is, I really liked the space, especially because it's similar in size to mine. Nicely done, Joe!

From reading the specs on the JTR website, I had an idea how big the 228's were, but seeing is believing. The speakers are certainly not small! The 228 on it's side as a center channel looked rather imposing.

As I said earlier, I'm not confident in my ability to analyze how something sounded, and I don't think I have a particularly good ear. I just try to do what everyone says and if it sounds good to me that's all that matters. Let me tell you, these 228s were spectacular. In fact, the whole theatre system sounded unbelievable, including the PSA subs. At higher volumes, the speakers were crystal clear, but I particularly noticed how they sounded at lower volumes. During movie demos all dialogue was easy to understand, and I felt like the sound really brought me "into the movie".

As for music, I probably talked too much, and we were short on time, and were only able to play a few tunes, but The Eagles "Hotel California" sounded just amazing. I generally don't have time to sit and listen to music at home, but I have to say I really enjoyed the few tracks we did hear. If I owned a set of the 228s, I could see myself definitely listening to more music! Indeed, Joe has found that to be his own experience since he got the 228s. I think if a set of speakers can get you to listen to music when you never did before, that's a pretty strong endorsement.

Thanks again to Joe, and I can't wait to see the space again after the current upgrade is complete.

Thanks for the kind words, it was great having you over to hear my speakers. smile.gif
post #13495 of 18717
Are there any JTR speaker owners near Louisville, KY that would allow me to listen to your system? I am curious how they compare to my Aerial Acoustics.
post #13496 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Was Just kidding man! tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

There is not a good answer to the question because a lot of this is more theory and ideal scenario dreamland than real life achievable stuff(re: industry standards).
I just spent considerable time placing and optimizing my four subs and then I followed that up with an Audyssey Pro calibration.

Here's my three front row seating positions:




Now, I try not to drink too much of the Audyssey Kool-Aid, but I do have to admit that I do think these curves represent the best chance of hearing the soundtrack as intended. That being said, my preference is for a bit more bass, perhaps a 3dB boost, but my opinion is that this bass boost probably moves me a small step away from the chance I'm going to hear the soundtrack as intended. A 10-15 dB boost seems to me to reasonably eliminate the chance you're hearing an accurate reproduction of intent.

And I'm NOT saying that is bad, I'm just saying it is preference, not a better reproduction of intent or accuracy. But, I can't stress enough that this is all just my current opinion, subject to future change as a result of any potential future enlightenment biggrin.gif.

That must sound like crap smile.gif

Actually run a few high DB sweeps with speakers disconnected - checking for any compression with sub placement - if holds same response up to your expected reference levels
pack the measuring gear away and bring on the music and movies. Looks great - enjoy
post #13497 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by stsand View Post

One day while perusing AVS, looking for info on speakers, I came across the JTR speakers. I wasn't actively looking to upgrade, but you know how upgradeitis is! After spending considerable time in the PSA thread, I kept reading posts by jbrown15, and saw that he lived in my metropolitan area.

After contacting jbrown15, we discovered he only lived 12 minutes down the road smile.gif. What made this even better was he owned the two pieces of equipment on my list of possible upgrades: JTR Noesis 228HT, and the PSA XS30 subwoofer. Some messages were exchanged, and I was able to make my way to jbrown15's house on Sunday. jbrown15 (Joe), was a great host and we were able to spend a couple of hours demoing his system.

Now, I'm a novice relative to the knowledge many, many forum members have. I'm continually amazed at how much the guys on AVS know about this hobby. I wanted to share a couple of my observations, and also to thank Joe on the forum here.

Joe has a great space in his basement and he did a considerable amount of the work himself. At present, the space is undergoing a transformation with a soon to be installed AT screen, and some new carpet and A/V rack. The point is, I really liked the space, especially because it's similar in size to mine. Nicely done, Joe!

From reading the specs on the JTR website, I had an idea how big the 228's were, but seeing is believing. The speakers are certainly not small! The 228 on it's side as a center channel looked rather imposing.

As I said earlier, I'm not confident in my ability to analyze how something sounded, and I don't think I have a particularly good ear. I just try to do what everyone says and if it sounds good to me that's all that matters. Let me tell you, these 228s were spectacular. In fact, the whole theatre system sounded unbelievable, including the PSA subs. At higher volumes, the speakers were crystal clear, but I particularly noticed how they sounded at lower volumes. During movie demos all dialogue was easy to understand, and I felt like the sound really brought me "into the movie".

As for music, I probably talked too much, and we were short on time, and were only able to play a few tunes, but The Eagles "Hotel California" sounded just amazing. I generally don't have time to sit and listen to music at home, but I have to say I really enjoyed the few tracks we did hear. If I owned a set of the 228s, I could see myself definitely listening to more music! Indeed, Joe has found that to be his own experience since he got the 228s. I think if a set of speakers can get you to listen to music when you never did before, that's a pretty strong endorsement.

Thanks again to Joe, and I can't wait to see the space again after the current upgrade is complete.



Very cool, thanks for giving your impressions! Demo's are so much fun.
post #13498 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post

Are there any JTR speaker owners near Louisville, KY that would allow me to listen to your system? I am curious how they compare to my Aerial Acoustics.

I am in Cincinnati and have a 7.2 JTR system. Don't know if that is close enough for you. You can see them in the link of my signature if that helps. I will likely be selling my front three JTR speakers early next year as I have a buyer pretty much lined up but I will be replacing them with three new JTR speakers...so either way, they will be JTR smile.gif
post #13499 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPBURNS View Post

That must sound like crap smile.gif

Actually run a few high DB sweeps with speakers disconnected - checking for any compression with sub placement - if holds same response up to your expected reference levels
pack the measuring gear away and bring on the music and movies. Looks great - enjoy

105 dB full sweep. Looks like an f3 of around 8 Hz. Not crazy about that dip at around 800 Hz


115 dB subs only. You can see where my CHT 18.1's (HPF=45 Hz) are a little hot compared to the JTR S2's


Hard to do full sweeps above 105 dB. Just too loud. Even above 115 with the subs only is getting nuts. I'll never know how you guys can tolerate 130-140 dB eek.gif

Overall, not bad. I need a couple more S2's to replace the CHT's, but things are ok for now. I have other audio/video fish to fry right now (PJ/screen, etc.)
post #13500 of 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPBURNS View Post


Hard to do full sweeps above 105 dB. Just too loud. Even above 115 with the subs only is getting nuts. I'll never know how you guys can tolerate 130-140 dB eek.gif

Overall, not bad. I need a couple more S2's to replace the CHT's, but things are ok for now. I have other audio/video fish to fry right now (PJ/screen, etc.)
earplugs help when doing silly loud sweeps
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