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Official JTR speaker thread - Page 133

post #3961 of 8265
4/5/12 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post

Sealed vs vented Triples, vented does have much more midbass output capability however depending on installation they could have too much midbass before calibration (room correction). Extra midbass can be preferred for music however does reduce speech intelligibility (movies). Calibration will level the midbass which maybe a reason why some people prefer different setting for movies vs music.

So if having a system that's 100% home theater........would the sealed triple 12's be the better option or is the vented triple 12's still the preferable way to go, in most cases?
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post #3962 of 8265
4/5/12 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonleepenn View Post

Jeff, Hello Jtr owners and others. Sorry if the question has been asked before, Has anyone setup their system (8ht's or 12's etc.) with the center channel horizontally placed? I want to get jtr's for my theater, however, i must have the center channel horizontally placed under the screen and foward 30"s. How will this effect sound quality? Also i'm leaning towards a pair of quints for the front L&R and a 8ht for the center. Will this work to my liking, and is the Quintuples available in a sealed version? I'll be switching from paradigm studio 100 f/pair, 690 center, I love the paradigms and have had paradigms for many years . Just wanna have something new for my 3000' room. Jeff if you can chime in please do, i'll be calling you later today. THANKS!

You switched from the exact same system I had before I got my Sig 8's. O man are you gonna be in store for a awesome surprise! The JTR's IMO walk all over the studio 100's in every way possible. Heck I even thing they walk all over my old Sig 8's too lol
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post #3963 of 8265
4/5/12 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

So if having a system that's 100% home theater........would the sealed triple 12's be the better option or is the vented triple 12's still the preferable way to go, in most cases?

There is no better or worse, how big is your room? are the speakers going to be close to the wall? do you have a pic of your room? If you have a big enough room, the vented 12's would probably be best, the sealed 12's will offer more place to put them and you'll be able to get them closer to the wall if need be. In any case, I have my vented T12's fairly close to the wall and they are freaking great!!!!
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post #3964 of 8265
4/5/12 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

You switched from the exact same system I had before I got my Sig 8's. O man are you gonna be in store for a awesome surprise! The JTR's IMO walk all over the studio 100's in every way possible. Heck I even thing they walk all over my old Sig 8's too lol

That's quite a statement that the JTR's walk all over a pair of speakers just south of 10 grand lol. I was looking into the S8's also prior to the JTR's. I'm sure the S8's were no slouch either, and probably sounded insanely clear with their beryllium tweeters.
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post #3965 of 8265
4/5/12 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

There is no better or worse, how big is your room? are the speakers going to be close to the wall? do you have a pic of your room? If you have a big enough room, the vented 12's would probably be best, the sealed 12's will offer more place to put them and you'll be able to get them closer to the wall if need be. In any case, I have my vented T12's fairly close to the wall and they are freaking great!!!!

But if you have room correction like Audyssey XT32, then it doesn't really matter. It would be more of what size do you want? Jeff said the room correction will correct the extra mid bass from the vented T12's if placed near a wall.
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post #3966 of 8265
4/5/12 at 3:12pm
My two front main speakers are close to the wall and realize this is not ideal for music, infact they are right next to the side wall. However with treatment and audyssey my room sounds great. Because of the proximty to the wall realestate can be an issue,will the triple 8's work? And can the sealed 8's provide the same sound level and quality as the larger vented 8's. I can't make up my mind which one to get The center channel will have to sit horizontally.
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post #3967 of 8265
4/5/12 at 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

You switched from the exact same system I had before I got my Sig 8's. O man are you gonna be in store for a awesome surprise! The JTR's IMO walk all over the studio 100's in every way possible. Heck I even thing they walk all over my old Sig 8's too lol

Hello N8DOGG, which JTR's do you have DOGG ?
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post #3968 of 8265
4/5/12 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassfeen View Post

Hi all,

I was wandering if anyone has any Anoying hiss from the Triple 8 Sealed Version. Im getting Hiss comming through from the speakers, Music played through the PS3 is even worse, The Voices have a anoying "ssss" sound after the speach.

Im using Onkyp PRe 5509, Emotiva UPA1 Mono blocks. I cant listen to music for more then an hour i tried to change the speaker cable but its not making any diffrence.

The midrange sounds a little mudled up at high volumes, Could this be a pre-amp problem or an amplifier problem.

A hissing sound is usually a ground loop between electronic components. There are a few things that could cause this so I would run a search for ground loops and do a little experimenting.

I guaranty the exaggerated "s" isn't the speakers. If there are near side walls then I would try toeing in the speakers some more and/or treating the wall just in front of the speakers.

A couple things could muddy the sound, since it is level dependent than it probably isn't the speaker. A resonance in the room would be my first guess.
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post #3969 of 8265
4/5/12 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonleepenn View Post

Jeff, Hello Jtr owners and others. Sorry if the question has been asked before, Has anyone setup their system (8ht's or 12's etc.) with the center channel horizontally placed? I want to get jtr's for my theater, however, i must have the center channel horizontally placed under the screen and foward 30"s. How will this effect sound quality? Also i'm leaning towards a pair of quints for the front L&R and a 8ht for the center. Will this work to my liking, and is the Quintuples available in a sealed version? I'll be switching from paradigm studio 100 f/pair, 690 center, I love the paradigms and have had paradigms for many years . Just wanna have something new for my 3000' room. Jeff if you can chime in please do, i'll be calling you later today. THANKS!

I have quints LCR with the Center horizontal. Works great.

Louis
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post #3970 of 8265
4/5/12 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

That's quite a statement that the JTR's walk all over a pair of speakers just south of 10 grand lol. I was looking into the S8's also prior to the JTR's. I'm sure the S8's were no slouch either, and probably sounded insanely clear with their beryllium tweeters.

Well to be fair, I got my s8's for dirt cheap because my brother in law use to work at a store that sold them. $4500 all in Sold them to a friend for $6500

For music, the s8's were great and I couldn't find anything I didn't like. For HT though, it wasn't even a contest, the 12's were so effortless at reference, it just makes me smile the 8's would start to sound harsh and seem to fall apart at reference volumes (yes I had enough power lol). I only had the s8'd for about 6 months and bought them as an upgrade to my Studio 100's.

If I was doing a music only room, I'd never would have looked ant anything else, the S8's were really great but thats not the case and will never be the case. So I started to look elsewhere and found a whole lotta awesome!
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post #3971 of 8265
4/5/12 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post

A hissing sound is usually a ground loop between electronis componets. There are a few things that could cause this so I would run a search for ground loops and do a little experimenting.

I garranty the exaggerated "s" isn't the speakers. If they're are near side walls then I would try toeing in the speakers some more and/or treating the wall just in front of the speakers.

A couple things could muddy the sound, since it is level dependent than it probaly isn't the speaker. A resonance in the room would be my first guess.

I know I have a ground loop- when I got the speakers I also was adding the amp and changing receivers. Initially I used HDMI connections for everything and the hum was, lets just say, really bad.

I won't bore everyone with everything I did next, but I eventually switched to optical connections for the audio and that got everything to a tolerable level.

I have it on my to do list to address the ground loop, but its not at the top right now....I should file my taxes first I suppose.....
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post #3972 of 8265
4/5/12 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Well to be fair, I got my s8's for dirt cheap because my brother in law use to work at a store that sold them. $4500 all in Sold them to a friend for $6500

For music, the s8's were great and I couldn't find anything I didn't like. For HT though, it wasn't even a contest, the 12's were so effortless at reference, it just makes me smile the 8's would start to sound harsh and seem to fall apart at reference volumes (yes I had enough power lol). I only had the s8'd for about 6 months and bought them as an upgrade to my Studio 100's.

If I was doing a music only room, I'd never would have looked ant anything else, the S8's were really great but thats not the case and will never be the case. So I started to look elsewhere and found a whole lotta awesome!

Wow! That's incredible! If you would have to make a direct comparison between the s8's and T12's for music/fidelity, how would you say the T12s stacked up to the S8s in this department? I know the T12s are great but I'm very curious because the S8s were the speakers I was originally looking at before I learned about the JTRs.
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post #3973 of 8265
4/5/12 at 8:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

But if you have room correction like Audyssey XT32, then it doesn't really matter. It would be more of what size do you want? Jeff said the room correction will correct the extra mid bass from the vented T12's if placed near a wall.

It does matter. You want to start from a good base and have Audyssey touch up the room eq. There is only so much that Audyssey can do.
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post #3974 of 8265
4/5/12 at 11:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

Wow! That's incredible! If you would have to make a direct comparison between the s8's and T12's for music/fidelity, how would you say the T12s stacked up to the S8s in this department? I know the T12s are great but I'm very curious because the S8s were the speakers I was originally looking at before I learned about the JTRs.

I did have a side by side before I sold my S8's. They both had things I liked and disliked. the s8's really do have a much more mellow sounding tone to the whole speaker, where as the T12's are more lively sounding, which can be good or bad I guess. The S8's would come out on top for music in my room. The only problem is i don't listen to music very often on my HT system. I bought my JTR stuff knowing I had a buyer for my S8's and I'd never go back.

My studio 100's on the other hand, were no match for the JTR's. I like my t12's better in every way i could think of. Music, movies, games. They really were much better at everything than the 100's were IMO of course. 1 thing I fdo have to say is how freaking nice the S8's were! piano black and i even went so far as to take them to my work and sand them down and do a extreme polish. They were really nice new but were second to none after I finished polishing. It literally was like looking into a mirror.
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post #3975 of 8265
4/5/12 at 11:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I did have a side by side before I sold my S8's. They both had things I liked and disliked. the s8's really do have a much more mellow sounding tone to the whole speaker, where as the T12's are more lively sounding, which can be good or bad I guess. The S8's would come out on top for music in my room. The only problem is i don't listen to music very often on my HT system. I bought my JTR stuff knowing I had a buyer for my S8's and I'd never go back.

My studio 100's on the other hand, were no match for the JTR's. I like my t12's better in every way i could think of. Music, movies, games. They really were much better at everything than the 100's were IMO of course. 1 thing I fdo have to say is how freaking nice the S8's were! piano black and i even went so far as to take them to my work and sand them down and do a extreme polish. They were really nice new but were second to none after I finished polishing. It literally was like looking into a mirror.

I agree on the Studio 100s. My triple 8lps kick the snot out of the studios...
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post #3976 of 8265
4/6/12 at 2:14am
I noticed the weight/dimension of both the t12, and t12 LP on the JTR website is exactly the same... there must be a mistake... anyone knows the actual dimension of the LP, and the weight? It has to be smaller and weight less right?
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post #3977 of 8265
4/6/12 at 2:23am
I have another question:

The Orbit Shifter only has xlr inputs. So, if I have the Onkyo 3009 receiver, how do i connect to it?
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post #3978 of 8265
4/6/12 at 3:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I did have a side by side before I sold my S8's. They both had things I liked and disliked. the s8's really do have a much more mellow sounding tone to the whole speaker, where as the T12's are more lively sounding, which can be good or bad I guess. The S8's would come out on top for music in my room. The only problem is i don't listen to music very often on my HT system. I bought my JTR stuff knowing I had a buyer for my S8's and I'd never go back.

My studio 100's on the other hand, were no match for the JTR's. I like my t12's better in every way i could think of. Music, movies, games. They really were much better at everything than the 100's were IMO of course. 1 thing I fdo have to say is how freaking nice the S8's were! piano black and i even went so far as to take them to my work and sand them down and do a extreme polish. They were really nice new but were second to none after I finished polishing. It literally was like looking into a mirror.

If they outperformed your Studio 100's, I'm sure they'll be better then my Monitor 7 v3's in every category lol. I do listen to music a lot of the time, but half of that time is from concert DVD's and I almost always crank it because I want it to sound like I'm there.
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post #3979 of 8265
4/6/12 at 4:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

I noticed the weight/dimension of both the t12, and t12 LP on the JTR website is exactly the same... there must be a mistake... anyone knows the actual dimension of the LP, and the weight? It has to be smaller and weight less right?

Just an innocent typo. Here's the accurate info from jtr's forum.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't notice your second question. You'll need a cable like this one.
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post #3980 of 8265
4/6/12 at 5:38am
Quick question for T8-lp owners. Does any brand of stands get your seal of approval? Thanks guys.
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post #3981 of 8265
4/6/12 at 6:07am
If your handy...I made stands myself...figured the height, width, and depth I needed and just used 2x4's and created the frame. Wrapped the front and sides of the frame in black fabric and the screwed a base and a top using nice thick plywood/mdf that I painted The base and top overhung the frame by about 1/2" all the way around. Painted the base and top black and bought rubber feet for the base. Very inexpensive and looks as good as any stand that I bought in the past. Love how the wrapped fabric looks...total cost for all three stands...I think was under $40.
LL
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post #3982 of 8265
4/6/12 at 6:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcoop View Post

If your handy...I made stands myself...figured the height, width, and depth I needed and just used 2x4's and created the frame. Wrapped the front and sides of the frame in black fabric and the screwed a base and a top using nice thick plywood/mdf that I painted The base and top overhung the frame by about 1/2" all the way around. Painted the base and top black and bought rubber feet for the base. Very inexpensive and looks as good as any stand that I bought in the past. Love how the wrapped fabric looks...total cost for all three stands...I think was under $40.

Kinda tough to make out from the pic(maybe my monitor settings) but I appreciate the tip. I'll probably end up going that route since I'd likely freak out at the price of any stands substantial enough for these speakers.
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post #3983 of 8265
4/6/12 at 6:31am
Paradigms sound good but IMHO their weak link is theie ability to go loud. I have a friend that used to have towers(forgot the model) and my cousing who owns Sig6's and they both blew their tweeters up. They just don't go loud enough and to me the T8LP's play just as good on music but at a much louder level, more than 20 dbs louder.
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post #3984 of 8265
4/6/12 at 7:18am
The Paradigms usually aren't so bad when it comes to playing decently loud. They have a decent efficiency rating and aren't power hungry as many other audiophile speakers, and can handle a decent amount of power. I mean, they are no match for the T12s and T8s, but I think the T12/T8s are in another category/league then the Paradigms.

Are you sure your friend and cousin just didn't run out of clean amplifier power and run the amps into clipping? Clipping will kill tweeters quick.
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post #3985 of 8265
4/6/12 at 7:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

The Paradigms usually aren't so bad when it comes to playing decently loud. They have a decent efficiency rating and aren't power hungry as many other audiophile speakers, and can handle a decent amount of power. I mean, they are no match for the T12s and T8s, but I think the T12/T8s are in another category/league then the Paradigms.

Are you sure your friend and cousin just didn't run out of clean amplifier power and run the amps into clipping? Clipping will kill tweeters quick.

I don't think the paradigms can play as loud as you think. I measured the Sig 6's and they were distorting at 107 dBs at the speaker, turned them down to 105 dBs and they were fine. Of course this means they could only play to 95 dbs cleanly at the LP. As for power, I had 500 watts available to them, Ada MPA 500 amp which is a beast! The other amp was a sunfire 400 watt amp. Plenty of power, not enough power handling. Paradigm rates them at 112 dbs so 107 dbs is where they start to make bad noises. 91-92 dbs of sensitivity(not sure frequency) means 200 watts is their max power handling and the specs seem right just by measuring them. 200 watts gets 115 dBs.
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post #3986 of 8265
4/6/12 at 8:04am
Really!? I measured my Monitor 7 v3's hitting peaks of 99db at the listening position, right at the edge of becoming distorted. But the listening position is 8 feet from the speakers and it was with 2 of them playing. The Monitor 7's I have are rated at 93db sensitivity and I was powering them with a Marantz reciever that gives them 105watts (according to Marantz)
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post #3987 of 8265
4/6/12 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

But if you have room correction like Audyssey XT32, then it doesn't really matter. It would be more of what size do you want? Jeff said the room correction will correct the extra mid bass from the vented T12's if placed near a wall.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post

It does matter. You want to start from a good base and have Audyssey touch up the room eq. There is only so much that Audyssey can do.


+1

It matters.

Audyssey (or any type of signal shaping) can achieve wonderful things, ....EQ'ing in both the time and frequency domain. It's measuring the combination of both the direct axial acoustic energy, and the entire room power response. However we psycho-acoustically interact and differentiate somewhat differently between the direct energy from the speakers, and the total power response.

Ideally you want the response as balanced as possible at the LP, prior to applying any manipulation, DSP or otherwise.


Thanks
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post #3988 of 8265
4/6/12 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

+1

It matters.

Audyssey (or any type of signal shaping) can achieve wonderful things, ....EQ'ing in both the time and frequency domain. It's measuring the combination of both the direct axial acoustic energy, and the entire room power response. However we psycho-acoustically interact and differentiate somewhat differently between the direct energy from the speakers, and the total power response.

Ideally you want the response as balanced as possible at the LP, prior to applying any manipulation, DSP or otherwise.


Thanks

True, but the typical Audyssey user (me) will not really understand that paragraph.

Proper speaker positioning is an important and easy first step. Optimizing a room for sound is not something the casual hobbyist can do correctly. I think a hap hazard approach to absorption/diffusion without taking measurements may or may not be beneficial. Even then, that optimization is only for a single point in space.

The current XT32 version of Audyssey is really an amazing product for getting good to great sound (including lfe) over a larger area in average room environments. For most Home Theaters, it is the silver bullet ... IMHO
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post #3989 of 8265
4/6/12 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

Really!? I measured my Monitor 7 v3's hitting peaks of 99db at the listening position, right at the edge of becoming distorted. But the listening position is 8 feet from the speakers and it was with 2 of them playing. The Monitor 7's I have are rated at 93db sensitivity and I was powering them with a Marantz reciever that gives them 105watts (according to Marantz)

Seems right, 2 of them can add anywhere from 3-6dbs. 95 dBs for me clean was from 15 feet away which I lost 10 dbs from the speaker. My room loses 12 dbs at 14 feet so that room is easier to get loud.
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post #3990 of 8265
4/6/12 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post


I don't think the paradigms can play as loud as you think. I measured the Sig 6's and they were distorting at 107 dBs at the speaker, turned them down to 105 dBs and they were fine. Of course this means they could only play to 95 dbs cleanly at the LP. As for power, I had 500 watts available to them, Ada MPA 500 amp which is a beast! The other amp was a sunfire 400 watt amp. Plenty of power, not enough power handling. Paradigm rates them at 112 dbs so 107 dbs is where they start to make bad noises. 91-92 dbs of sensitivity(not sure frequency) means 200 watts is their max power handling and the specs seem right just by measuring them. 200 watts gets 115 dBs.

I blew my Sig tweeters as well. 400 watt amp, not a clean power issue.
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