or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › Official JTR speaker thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official JTR speaker thread - Page 138

post #4111 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skillet View Post

jtuttle,
Can you elaborate more on your experience with the ADAM GTC 88's? I read about the ADAM's for the first time a couple months ago and thought they sounded intriguing, but haven't run across anyone who's actually heard them. One of the A/V magazines recently gave them a glowing review, but up until then, I'd never heard of them. I'm curious as to how they'd compare to JTR's.
Thanks

I liked the GTC 88s. I only listened to 2 channel audio for the demo... which is something I never do at home.

They had a demo 5.1 setup with the Adam Audio Tensors which sounded great! Those are way out of my price range.

I am considering JTR T12s based upon RMK!s experience.
post #4112 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuttle View Post

I agree. It was not fair. The Triad Gold LCR owner said he liked "live" music and the GTCs were in a nice "showroom." Not a fair comparison but how do I treat a guys living room? My current home is untreated.

Which leads to a question... is it better to treat a room with cheap speakers (like I currently have) or, is it better to buy good speakers first? I can either treat or get speakers now and then do the next HT upgrade in a few months.

I think that would depend on how much room treatment is needed in your room. Some say that the room contributes as much as 50% to the sound, I don't know if that's true but I know it can be if it is a bad room.

I talked to Bryan of at GIK acoustics and he gave me a lot of great recommendations and it definitely makes a difference. They actually sell room kits that save you over buying piece by piece. I don't think it is incredibly expensive to do room treatments and you can DIY to save money as well.
post #4113 of 18347
mjaudio, Would you get JTR speakers first or treat the room?
post #4114 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuttle View Post

mjaudio, Would you get JTR speakers first or treat the room?

That's a tough one but I would probably opt for the JTR speakers first then treat the room as funds permit. I guess it depends on how bad your current room and speakers are on which I would opt for first.

I have to admit though that room treatments made such a big difference in my dedicated room upstairs that music on my stereo room downstairs doesn't sound as good now. I have lesser Triad Gold LCR's in the dedicated room and expensive Von Schweikert speakers downstairs and I prefer the Triads for music right now. That was never the case prior to adding room treatments so now I am going to have to treat the downstairs room of just move the VS speakers upstairs which I didn't want to do. I guess in my case cheaper speakers with room treatments sound better than speakers that cost more than twice the price in an untreated room.
post #4115 of 18347
Just as a side note. I don't have JTR speakers but plan on picking up some T12's one day and I am fairly confident they will sound better for HT than the Triad Gold LCR's I currently have. I did have 3 QSC HPR153i Pro speakers before and the added mid-bass and just larger sound was excellent for HT and bettered the Triads. The QSC's were powered speakers though and for my set-up it just didn't work out so I stuck with the Triad's. From that experience though I am convinced that Pro style dynamic speakers like JTR are the way to go for movies.
post #4116 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post


That's a tough one but I would probably opt for the JTR speakers first then treat the room as funds permit. I guess it depends on how bad your current room and speakers are on which I would opt for first.

I have to admit though that room treatments made such a big difference in my dedicated room upstairs that music on my stereo room downstairs doesn't sound as good now. I have lesser Triad Gold LCR's in the dedicated room and expensive Von Schweikert speakers downstairs and I prefer the Triads for music right now. That was never the case prior to adding room treatments so now I am going to have to treat the downstairs room of just move the VS speakers upstairs which I didn't want to do. I guess in my case cheaper speakers with room treatments sound better than speakers that cost more than twice the price in an untreated room.

Garbage in, garbage out. I think the point is that you need Both. Treating a room with BAD (not necessarily have to be cheap) speaker will just let you hear all the imperfection of the speaker. Getting a good speaker without a treated room will not give you the potential... All in all, if I am going to do Both at the end, I will go with good speaker first, as then I can keep the good speaker after the treatment, vs you will likely need to buy a better speaker again if you treat the room first and later upgrade.
post #4117 of 18347
The gussied-up T8's!

The JTR's are are known for their brute-force capabilities, but that doesn't mean they can't be beautiful too. Here's a brand-new pair of T8's in natural oak. I haven't actually listened to them yet since a bit of calibration is going to be necessary and that won't take place until tomorrow. To win my heart, they are going to have to perform well with two-channel music which for me is the ultimate test. They will be crossed over at 100hz to stereo subs which will themselves be crossed over to my big subs at 40hz.

Meanwhile here's how they look...
LL
LL
LL
post #4118 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

The gussied-up T8's!

The JTR's are are known for their brute-force capabilities, but that doesn't mean they can't be beautiful too. Here's a brand-new pair of T8's in natural oak. I haven't actually listened to them yet since a bit of calibration is going to be necessary and that won't take place until tomorrow. To win my heart, they are going to have to perform well with two-channel music which for me is the ultimate test. They will be crossed over at 100hz to stereo subs which will themselves be crossed over to my big subs at 40hz.

Meanwhile here's how they look...

Those look fantastic. Love it!
post #4119 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

The gussied-up T8's!

The JTR's are are known for their brute-force capabilities, but that doesn't mean they can't be beautiful too. Here's a brand-new pair of T8's in natural oak. I haven't actually listened to them yet since a bit of calibration is going to be necessary and that won't take place until tomorrow. To win my heart, they are going to have to perform well with two-channel music which for me is the ultimate test. They will be crossed over at 100hz to stereo subs which will themselves be crossed over to my big subs at 40hz.

Meanwhile here's how they look...

Those look great Mike . Anxious to hear your impressions and how you connect all those up and calibrate them. Are the stereo subs going to be the bases for the T8's?
post #4120 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

The gussied-up T8's!

The JTR's are are known for their brute-force capabilities, but that doesn't mean they can't be beautiful too. Here's a brand-new pair of T8's in natural oak. I haven't actually listened to them yet since a bit of calibration is going to be necessary and that won't take place until tomorrow. To win my heart, they are going to have to perform well with two-channel music which for me is the ultimate test. They will be crossed over at 100hz to stereo subs which will themselves be crossed over to my big subs at 40hz.

Meanwhile here's how they look...

Mike, those look awesome. Great job.
post #4121 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

The gussied-up T8's!

The JTR's are are known for their brute-force capabilities, but that doesn't mean they can't be beautiful too. Here's a brand-new pair of T8's in natural oak. I haven't actually listened to them yet since a bit of calibration is going to be necessary and that won't take place until tomorrow. To win my heart, they are going to have to perform well with two-channel music which for me is the ultimate test. They will be crossed over at 100hz to stereo subs which will themselves be crossed over to my big subs at 40hz.

Meanwhile here's how they look...


Looks great! can't wait to hear what you think of them!
post #4122 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

The gussied-up T8's!

The JTR's are are known for their brute-force capabilities, but that doesn't mean they can't be beautiful too. Here's a brand-new pair of T8's in natural oak. I haven't actually listened to them yet since a bit of calibration is going to be necessary and that won't take place until tomorrow. To win my heart, they are going to have to perform well with two-channel music which for me is the ultimate test. They will be crossed over at 100hz to stereo subs which will themselves be crossed over to my big subs at 40hz.

Meanwhile here's how they look...

Very nice! I debated an upgraded finish for my T8LP but decided that I liked the regular finish. And the 6 week lead time on the veneer didn't help!
post #4123 of 18347
Mojomike describe in more depth what you are doing with stereo subs and how you have them hooked up? If you've done that somewhere else would you mind linking? Those jbl stereo subs currently on sale have me curious how one would go about setting them up.
post #4124 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Those look great Mike . Anxious to hear your impressions and how you connect all those up and calibrate them. Are the stereo subs going to be the bases for the T8's?

Yes. The T8's will be sitting on top of the stereo subs.
post #4125 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Mojomike describe in more depth what you are doing with stereo subs and how you have them hooked up? If you've done that somewhere else would you mind linking? Those jbl stereo subs currently on sale have me curious how one would go about setting them up.

The L&R front pre-outs are split. Half of the splits are high-passed using 100hz F-mods and are sent to the power amp and then on to the L&R front speakers. The other half of the splits are sent to the stereo subs. The low-pass controls on the stereo subs are set to 100hz. Overall, I set the L&R fronts to "small" in the AVR at use a 40hz crossover. The Captivator and PB13 handle stuff below 40hz from the L&R fronts as well as the various bottom ranges of all the other channels and of course the LFE.
post #4126 of 18347
New additions arrived today. Glad I went with t12x pros (metal grills) as I knew my daughter would love to "explore" them. Single 8x pro for center. Did some Basic listening tonight and im VERY happy with what I am hearing after xt32. I'm back in the JTR game!

Attachment 245261
LL
post #4127 of 18347
Archaea, which JBL subs are you considering?
post #4128 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebuckaman View Post

New additions arrived today. Glad I went with t12x pros (metal grills) as I knew my daughter would love to "explore" them. Single 8x pro for center. Did some Basic listening tonight and im VERY happy with what I am hearing after xt32. I'm back in the JTR game!

Very cool, I like the industrial look of the pro cabinet. Wonder if the crossover is the same as the T12HT?
post #4129 of 18347
Here's a couple more pics with the T8 stacked on a sub. I'm liking the grill-less look, but somehow I doubt that my wife will.
LL
LL
post #4130 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Archaea, which JBL subs are you considering?

I don't need them --- but I kinda like to play -- so I've been toying with the idea.

Right
http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_br...=NS3SR&status=

Left
http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_br...=NS3SL&status=

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

How is your frequency response charts with your setup? I've heard fmods are a bit iffy, and it seems like with that many different eqs involved it is possible that the FR may have some dips and peaks that could be simplified with less complication? Do you have FR graphs of your room?

One of my interests is that I REALLY love my Captivator subs pointed forward --- but I can't because I get a 50hz null in my room. PERHAPS --- PERHAPS if I bought these stereo subs and stuffed them in the corner I could point the captivator subs back forward again and enjoy some of that 'air movement' during my movie watching. Currently the caps are pointed to the outsides parrallel my front wall because my FR is much flatter that way in my room. I've got multiple amps just sitting around so I could do somethign similar to what you have described. The only problem is that I have a darn near perfectly flat FR now with my two Captivators from 20hz on up to crossover frequency and I'm not sure I'd gain much in reality besides the air movement that I get when I face the caps forward.

Caps in my room with Inuke DSP 3000

1/6 smoothing


same graph - no smoothing


http://s1191.photobucket.com/albums/...via%20OmniMic/

My current Crown XLS5000 and Mic2200 setup isn't quite as flat - but it's pretty close.
post #4131 of 18347
Mojomike- those look like RS850's next to the triple 8's correct? Can you please comment on the difference between the 8's and the 850's after you get calibrated?

Does anyone else have experience going from a full AV123 setup to a JTR setup, is it a worthwhile upgrade? They would be going into a treated dedicated 16X26 theater.
post #4132 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I don't need them --- but I kinda like to play -- so I've been toying with the idea.

Right
http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_br...=NS3SR&status=

Left
http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_br...=NS3SL&status=

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

How is your frequency response charts with your setup? I've heard fmods are a bit iffy, and it seems like with that many different eqs involved it is possible that the FR may have some dips and peaks that could be simplified with less complication? Do you have FR graphs of your room?

One of my interests is that I REALLY love my Captivator subs pointed forward --- but I can't because I get a 50hz null in my room. PERHAPS --- PERHAPS if I bought these stereo subs and stuffed them in the corner I could point the captivator subs back forward again and enjoy some of that 'air movement' during my movie watching. Currently the caps are pointed to the outsides parrallel my front wall because my FR is much flatter that way in my room. I've got multiple amps just sitting around so I could do somethign similar to what you have described. The only problem is that I have a darn near perfectly flat FR now with my two Captivators from 20hz on up to crossover frequency and I'm not sure I'd gain much in reality besides the air movement that I get when I face the caps forward.

Caps in my room with Inuke DSP 3000

1/6 smoothing


same graph - no smoothing


http://s1191.photobucket.com/albums/...via%20OmniMic/

My current Crown XLS5000 and Mic2200 setup isn't quite as flat - but it's pretty close.

The only frequency measurements that I have kept were SMS screen shots that I took when I first set up my Captivator back in 12/10. They have nothing to do with the F-mods and don't at all reflect their effect on the system. The F-mods only effect the relationship between the L&R mains and the small stereo subs. I can say that I've never had any frequency anomolies using the F-mods. Below is a screen shot of the Captivator + the PB13. This is prior to applying any eq or Audyssey.
LL
post #4133 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brady84 View Post

Mojomike- those look like RS850's next to the triple 8's correct? Can you please comment on the difference between the 8's and the 850's after you get calibrated?

Does anyone else have experience going from a full AV123 setup to a JTR setup, is it a worthwhile upgrade? They would be going into a treated dedicated 16X26 theater.

Those are oak-veneered 850 Rockets with Ninja x-overs. I will comment on the comparisons after setting up. Unfortunately, direct A-B comparisons will not be possible due to the vast differences in sensitivity which requires a good deal of calibration when changing from one system to another.

I very curious myself how the two will compare with two-channel music. For me, that's the ultimate test.
post #4134 of 18347
I spent some time setting up, calibrating, and listening to the new T8's in my system. These are pretty amazing speakers. In comparison to the 850 Rockets, the T8 show some distinct differences as one would expect. For movies and TV viewing, there really isn't much to compare. The T8's dominate completely. The sensitivity, dynamics, and clarity at all listening levels put the T8's at a total advantage for listening to video soundtracks.

For music, there are some tradeoffs. Compared with the Rockets and their smooth-sounding Vifa ring radiator tweeter, the JTR's lose some "air" and some apparent width of the soundstage when listening to two-channel music. However, the tremendous dynamics and midrange clarity give the music a distinct "live" sound that the Rockets couldn't hope to approach even though they are not too bad in the area of dynamics for a system of only medium sensitivity. For me, I believe the tradeoff is worth it. I listen to live music often, sometimes a couple of times a week and this is the standard that I use to judge how a sound system sounds to my ears. The T8's have allowed my system to sound closer to "live" than it ever has before. Well-recorded live performances sound particularly fresh. For example, the excellent Diana Krall "Live in Paris" has never sounded better to me than it did today. The piano is an instrument which can be a dead giveaway as to when either a speaker, an amp, or both are reaching their limits dynamically or beginng to distort. Those notes can begin to become noticeably "brittle" sounding. I was not able to cause this to happen at any tolerable level I tried. I'm really not sure of how high these speakers' limits are and I may never be able to find out. My hearing is likely to give out first. It makes me wonder why anyone would have a need to go to the T12's unless they need to use a lower crossover for some reason. It's incredible how much sound a fairly compact (although quite heavy and solid) speaker like the T8 can put out.

Integrating the T8's with their stereo SVS SB12-Plus bases was not too much of a problem. It did require some tweaking of the phase controls on the subs to improve the blend. This photo shows the result of the T8 - SB12 integration with a crossover at about 100hz. This is prior to using any eq or Audyssey. At 40hz, this combo is crossed over to the big subs. Those are not running in this photo.
LL
post #4135 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

... For movies and TV viewing, there really isn't much to compare. The T8's dominate completely. The sensitivity, dynamics, and clarity at all listening levels put the T8's at a total advantage for listening to video soundtracks.

For music, there are some tradeoffs. Compared with the Rockets and their smooth-sounding Vifa ring radiator tweeter, the JTR's lose some "air" and some apparent width of the soundstage when listening to two-channel music. However, the tremendous dynamics and midrange clarity give the music a distinct "live" sound that the Rockets couldn't hope to approach even though they are not too bad in the area of dynamics for a system of only medium sensitivity. For me, I believe the tradeoff is worth it. ...

This is a really good assessment. When I got my JTRs I was coming from electrostats, the king of air, but rather poor for dynamics and low-end. I do miss them for music and I'm considering the purchase of Magnepan Mini Maggies for my desktop where I spend even more time but I digress. For TV and movie watching the JTRs are hard to beat, and certainly not at this price point. And the air and three dimensional quality that I miss when listening to music on the JTRs simply disappears when you insert the video. I've never quite understood why this is but my guess is that engaging the visual sense pulls it together.

Louis
post #4136 of 18347
Having the T8's rated down to 70hz......is there a minimum cross over point? would crossing over at 80hz still be ok or would raising the crossover to a 100hz be more of a reasonable crossover?

I still can't decide if I'm going T12's or 8's.........i like crossing over at 80hz and keep reading that the T8's have better vocal clarity.
post #4137 of 18347
I'm crossing at 100hz only because I happen to have the stereo subs. I think the T8's could do fine crossed at 80hz. Even at high volume, nothing seems to be working all that hard.
post #4138 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

Having the T8's rated down to 70hz......is there a minimum cross over point? would crossing over at 80hz still be ok or would raising the crossover to a 100hz be more of a reasonable crossover?

I still can't decide if I'm going T12's or 8's.........i like crossing over at 80hz and keep reading that the T8's have better vocal clarity.

For what it's worth, the crossover on my 2012 T12HT-LP (sealed versions) wound up at 80Hz. I have four Seaton SubMersive HP subs, so the crossover could easily have been higher on the T12's.

Mark
post #4139 of 18347
Anthem's ARC set my triple 8 sealed at 110 hz.

Audyssey XT now has it at 90 hz.
post #4140 of 18347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post

A good off axis transition between drivers is critical to sound quality. There was over a year of development that went into the Triples before they were introduced. The 2007-2010 used a crossover point up where the midrange's directivity coincided with the horn's. The 2011-newer uses a CD that can be crossed over much lower in frequency and is now crossed over down where the horn losses directivity. Both methods provide a good off axis transition however the lower crossover point being favorable in listening tests.

The 2009 and previous, I did prefer the Triple 8's midrange however after the complete redesign of 2010 they became really close and the newest 2012, with lower crossover point, I can't choose.

The Triple's midrange's cone is the wave guide for the CD and the larger cone of the Triple 12 is a better wave guide. The piece that I designed so that I could remove the dust cover from the 12 midrange will not work on the 8 midrange.

Sealed vs vented Triples, vented does have much more midbass output capability however depending on installation they could have too much midbass before calibration (room correction). Extra midbass can be preferred for music however does reduce speech intelligibility (movies). Calibration will level the midbass which maybe a reason why some people prefer different setting for movies vs music.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

Having the T8's rated down to 70hz......is there a minimum cross over point? would crossing over at 80hz still be ok or would raising the crossover to a 100hz be more of a reasonable crossover?

I still can't decide if I'm going T12's or 8's.........i like crossing over at 80hz and keep reading that the T8's have better vocal clarity.

Jeff's post above is the best answer to your question. It appears to be more of a sealed vs vented question in regards to vocal clarity. Room size, treatments and EQ also have an effect. Having both speakers, I do not think there is an advantage in vocal clarity from one to the other. I find the extra midbass horsepower of the T12's gives more depth to music and just a bigger sound in general. They would be overkill in a small room.

BTW, nice review Mike. How about some photos of the setup?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Speakers
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › Official JTR speaker thread