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Official JTR speaker thread - Page 149

post #4441 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

People think I'm crazy for having 10 subs in my HT with all my JTR gear and over 30K watts of power, that is until they come and listen to it, after a demo, I always get a smile and a " Ahhhhh, I understand now " lol

Exactly, you do not know what you are missing until you experience it. Just like once you drive a Corvette a Civic will never put a smile on your face even if you put a fart pipe on it.

I run 10 subs and JTR also and my wife thought I was crazy to adding 8 sealed MFWs to the HT until the first movie we watched, X-men First Class. Half way through the movie she looked over at me with a big grin on her face and said she was sorry for questioning the additional subs. cool.gif
post #4442 of 18650
And here I am with only 2 little Submersive HPs, and people think I'M crazy for having 2 subs! I wouldn't mind at least another 2 SubM HPs biggrin.gif
post #4443 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I too like to run the bass a little hot down below the hearing range, for the tactile effect. man some of the back and forth over high sensitivity speakers in the other threads, gets old. I like you talk about HT. I don't sit in my theater and listen to music. If these guys could/would take the opportunity to hear a system that can truly play clean reference levels in a treated room, they would understand what we are talking about. As it stands, most of them do not have the point of reference that they think they have. On the other hand, I have lots of hours of listening time on 20K speakers and if I want more time, I just have to drive to my brother's house and listen more. smile.gif Even my brother admits, his room can't touch mine, when it comes to movies.

Yea i enjoy reading that thread for the people coming in with new posts, not the same talk about the 801's over and over. It is what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

And right there is the problem. To many times we get argued to death by someone who has no idea what clean reference even sounds like, let alone own anything even remotely close to some of our own systems. They have no comparison but will argue to the teeth that it's bad, this or that blah blah blah.
I like you use my HT for a HT. i don't generally listen to music on it on many occasions but the times that I do, I really do enjoy the experience. I've been doing quite a few audyssey pro installs over the last year and have seem some very expensive systems just fall flat on their faces at anything near reference. We can say till our faces are blue that you have to experience it to be able to understand what we are talking about, they will have none of that lol.
People think I'm crazy for having 10 subs in my HT with all my JTR gear and over 30K watts of power, that is until they come and listen to it, after a demo, I always get a smile and a " Ahhhhh, I understand now " lol

Id love ANYONE to listen to a nice acoustic album or BD like Dave live at readio city, on their revel salons and then come by and let me play the same on my t-12's and sub rig (dual XXX18's and quad 2225h's) and see what they think. Ill have a slobber bucket ready just in case my gut feeling is right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

And here I am with only 2 little Submersive HPs, and people think I'M crazy for having 2 subs! I wouldn't mind at least another 2 SubM HPs biggrin.gif
post #4444 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Yea i enjoy reading that thread for the people coming in with new posts, not the same talk about the 801's over and over. It is what it is.
Id love ANYONE to listen to a nice acoustic album or BD like Dave live at readio city, on their revel salons and then come by and let me play the same on my t-12's and sub rig (dual XXX18's and quad 2225h's) and see what they think. Ill have a slobber bucket ready just in case my gut feeling is right.

That bluray is the one I test for music. My Triads blew up on -10MV viewing. Of course they were the older triads and the newer ones have 6 dBs more. Playing that disc at reference is pretty sweet and my DR's eat it up, crystal clear, live sounding, and with the 12 bass drivers the experience is just awesome! I can feel and hear every pluck of the guitar as if I was in the front row. Warning, this Bluray at reference is loud!
post #4445 of 18650
Do you think that would sound good on a pair of JBL 3732T's?
post #4446 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jindrak View Post

Do you think that would sound good on a pair of JBL 3732T's?

That disc should sound good on any speakers.
post #4447 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by kma100 View Post

Hi Kathy - curious if you a chance to calibrate and use the speakers. How do they sound?

Well, over a year later and I just had my audio system calibrated by Jeff Meier. Sounds great. He had some great source material too. When he cranked them up, wow. He didn't push to reference, and said that my Emotiva ERD-1 surrounds might not be able to take it.

He also spoke highly of the Orbital Shifter, but it is too large to fit in my living room. I always think it is quite an endorsement when someone who calibrates for a living recommends a product.
post #4448 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonleepenn View Post

RMK, just got my front 12lp's today. Listened to some music without any EQ calibration,just a quick spl read for level, and wow! love what i heard, these speakers are very dynamic. They sure play loud high sens. Will post some pictures of my setup, i need to figure out how to download photos to the forum site .

Just getting around to posting some photos of my jtr's t12lp up front. Used t8's cd's and crossovers in diy cabinets with eminence 8"coaxial. And two pyle 8" drivers oem by eminence. Other cabinets are diy, two cabinets with 8"eminence coaxial, eminence crossover and selenium cd. A pair of diy bipoles designed by me,they contain two eminence cd's in each cabinet and two 5" 1/4" mid woofers and a single 8"woofer. The Jtr's are the real deal and are by far the best home theater speaker i've owned and they were many i've owned. My diy's are by no means Jtr's, they are my own attempt to build a compreesion horn  speaker setup for my personal theater. I must admit that they sound good and work nicely for side/rears/back. Love the JTR.s and can't see changing for a really long time, and by then Jeff will have updated JTR's . Hope the photo's look ok just now figured out how to insert the images.DSC00572.JPGDSC00588.JPGDSC00576.JPGDSC00573.JPGDSC00579.JPG

post #4449 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonleepenn View Post

Just getting around to posting some photos of my jtr's t12lp up front. Used t8's cd's and crossovers in diy cabinets with eminence 8"coaxial. And two pyle 8" drivers oem by eminence. Other cabinets are diy, two cabinets with 8"eminence coaxial, eminence crossover and selenium cd. A pair of diy bipoles designed by me,they contain two eminence cd's in each cabinet and two 5" 1/4" mid woofers and a single 8"woofer. The Jtr's are the real deal and are by far the best home theater speaker i've owned and they were many i've owned. My diy's are by no means Jtr's, they are my own attempt to build a compreesion horn  speaker setup for my personal theater. I must admit that they sound good and work nicely for side/rears/back. Love the JTR.s and can't see changing for a really long time, and by then Jeff will have updated JTR's . Hope the photo's look ok just now figured out how to insert the images.600x338px-LL-f0cbda6d_DSC00572.jpeg600x338px-LL-616c7602_DSC00588.jpeg600x338px-LL-2ea46253_DSC00576.jpeg600x338px-LL-36a514a0_DSC00573.jpeg600x338px-LL-1467aaa5_DSC00579.jpeg

Wow DLP, that is a great looking HT.

I'm into my T12's again as one of the new crossovers went south on me last week and the replacement is due in today. Sending the original back to Jeff for the forensic. We watched a movie with some friends last night and even with the right main essentially minus the mid and high frequencies it still sounded good. No one noticed but me. Again, great job on the room.cool.gif
post #4450 of 18650
New XO installed ... everthing back to great. The problem with these speakers is the constant temptation to play them too loud. Just treated the neighborhood to I'm a Man (CTA version) at maybe 125db in the room with the windows open. The drum solo was unreal (girls next door loved it) but I kept it to just one song in the red zone. Amazing frigging speakers cool.gif
Edited by RMK! - 6/24/12 at 8:09am
post #4451 of 18650
125db and both crossovers working... and all is right in the world again!
post #4452 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post

125db and both crossovers working... and all is right in the world again!

Yup, well at least the little part of the world that I control ...tongue.gifcool.gif
post #4453 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

New XO installed ... everthing back to great. The problem with these speakers is the constant temptation to play them too loud. Just treated the neighborhood to I'm a Man (CTO version) at maybe 125db in the room with the windows open. The drum solo was unreal (girls next door loved it) but I kept it to just one song in the red zone. Amazing frigging speakers cool.gif

My offer still stands if you want to use my audyssey pro kit! I'll pay shipping to you, you pay it back. I just re-did mine and moved some things around. I'm really digging music on my system again!!
post #4454 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

My offer still stands if you want to use my audyssey pro kit! I'll pay shipping to you, you pay it back. I just re-did mine and moved some things around. I'm really digging music on my system again!!

That is a very generous offer. smile.gif
Reply
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post #4455 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

My offer still stands if you want to use my audyssey pro kit! I'll pay shipping to you, you pay it back. I just re-did mine and moved some things around. I'm really digging music on my system again!!

Yes as Mike said, very generous offer and thanks. I am a tweaker and I'm afraid that would only make me want the kit again (I've owned three redface.gif). I'm pretty happy with what XT32 does and my XTZ Room Analyzer plus my ears confirms that things are good. That said, compared to you guys I'm undersubbed ... biggrin.gif
Edited by RMK! - 6/24/12 at 8:06am
post #4456 of 18650
My offer would extend to any of the regular guys on this thread. If I didn't send the tripod, I could fit everything into a much smaller box that what it came in. Shipping to the states would be around $40-$50, I'd pay 1 way, other person pays it back. Maybe some sort of deposit or something, just while the other person has it. You'd still have to pay the 150 license fee to audyssey though.
post #4457 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Yes as Mike said, very generous offer and thanks. I am a tweaker and I'm afraid that would only make me want the kit again (I've owned three redface.gif). I'm pretty happy with what XT32 does and my XTZ Room Analyzer plus my ears confirms that things are good. That said, compared to you guys I'm undersubbed ... biggrin.gif

that's saying something when your "under subbed" and you have two orbit shifters running in reasonable sized home theater! After I straighten out my pre pro and get my rears I may opt for another shifter myself. Might just bury it in an adjacent room and build a square outlet intot he wall for the thing to output into the theater room. All the benefit without using up anymore room (at least in the theater).
post #4458 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post

that's saying something when your "under subbed" and you have two orbit shifters running in reasonable sized home theater! After I straighten out my pre pro and get my rears I may opt for another shifter myself. Might just bury it in an adjacent room and build a square outlet intot he wall for the thing to output into the theater room. All the benefit without using up anymore room (at least in the theater).

It's like that old real estate axiom; location, location, location ... wink.gif

Those guys have something like 10 subs each. Seems they read that Harmon/Welti white paper on subwoofer placement and really took it to heart. smile.gif
post #4459 of 18650
I posted this in the Cap S thread but thought I could benefit from the collective wisdom in this thread..

I have two JTR Cap S subs that are installed in a baffle wall. They feed into a custom Sub Eq and the Sub Eq feeds into an Onkyo PR-SC885 SSP.

The right hand side sub stopped working and Jeff replaced the amp and returned the Cap S back to me last Friday.

Two issues though..

1) The returned Cap S (right hand side) sub has a low frequency hum. Left hand (original) Cap S sub no hum. The hum is audible directly in front of the 18" driver. It is most noticeable when you are close and directly in front of sub. From 10+ feet away it is less noticeable but you can still faintly hear the low frequency hum that almost sounds like a dryer machine is running in the next room. No hum when power off. I also performed the following troubleshooting steps ,
1a) Instead of the same surge protector used by other Cap S sub, I plugged in suspect Cap S direct to the same outlet circuit No difference.
1b) From the Sub Eq box , i swapped Subs to opposite XLR outputs. No difference.
1c) From the Sub Eq Box, I put in one sub at a time and tried both XLR outputs. No difference. Meaning left hand sub by itself had no hum but right hand sub by itself had hum.
1d) Now this is where it got interesting. I removed the Sub Eq box from the equation by plugging in XLR of the right hand Cap S sub directly to the Onkyo SSP. I expected there to be hum but there was *none* ! I tried test tone to make sure Cap S sub worked and it did.

My acoustician / installer who made the Sub Eq for me thinks there is a system interaction causing ground loop issue occurring between the Cap S with the new replacement amp and the Sub Eq.

I also noticed the back panel of the Cap S amp has slightly different markings than the original. There might be some revision changes to the amplifier compared to my original Cap S amp?

I called Jeff last week and left him voicemail but did not hear back yet.


2) Today myacoustician / installer re-measured and the frequency response looks quite different. The green curve is the left (and original) Cap S. The black curve is the Cap S with replacement amp.

leftsubvsrightsub.png

The acoustician tried to Eq the gaps out but it made the sound a little worse (overall sound was a bit flat) and decided to back off. His feedback is that it's like I have two different subs now. His suspicion is that it is a DSP profile is different with the new amp. With the above said, the overall sound now is not bad at all. But the the fact that I know the response curves are so different does bother me because both subs are not operating as best as they could be. I called Jeff today again, left him a voicemail and sent him an email with the above but have not heard back yet. I was not too happy that I had to send back the Cap S sub the first time on my own dime and I really don't want to have to send it back again.

What would you guys do at this point?
post #4460 of 18650
The hum is definitely sounds like a ground loop issue. It could be that the new amp is not filtering it out while the old cap did? If you have a cheater plug you could use that on the sub eq box. (Some people will frown on the use of a cheater plug)

I wouldn't worry too much about the FR plot, the newer one looks better than the original. Normally Jeff is always looking to upgrade things so it could be that the new amps are an improvement over the previous or the DSP profile has been optimized. The measurements are from the exact same location right? If not then the difference in location can also change the FR.
Edited by smbsocal - 6/26/12 at 5:32am
post #4461 of 18650
Hi Warren,

A conversation with Jeff is in order (sometimes easier said than done). If this Sub EQ your installer introduced is the source of the hum, then I don't know what Jeff can do. The DSP program is down-loadable to the amps so if Jeff has changed the DSP file then you will need to get both amps on the same program version. Again, a conversation with Jeff is in order and I know the frustration you must be feeling at this point but I'm not sure there is much he can do other than verify that both Caps are running the same DSP version.

You may have to be a bit patient with an unusual situation like this.
post #4462 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by smbsocal View Post

The hum is definitely sounds like a ground loop issue. It could be that the new amp is not filtering it out while the old cap did? If you have a cheater plug you could use that on the sub eq box. (Some people will frown on the use of a cheater plug)
I wouldn't worry too much about the FR plot, the newer one looks better than the original. Normally Jeff is always looking to upgrade things so it could be that the new amps are an improvement over the previous or the DSP profile has been optimized. The measurements are from the exact same location right? If not then the difference in location can also change the FR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Hi Warren,
A conversation with Jeff is in order (sometimes easier said than done). If this Sub EQ your installer introduced is the source of the hum, then I don't know what Jeff can do. The DSP program is down-loadable to the amps so if Jeff has changed the DSP file then you will need to get both amps on the same program version. Again, a conversation with Jeff is in order and I know the frustration you must be feeling at this point but I'm not sure there is much he can do other than verify that both Caps are running the same DSP version.
You may have to be a bit patient with an unusual situation like this.

Jeff responded this morning. He suggested to turn sub off , unplug the XLR interconnect and then turn on Cap S. If no hum, then his view is that the issue is upstream. I'll try it tonight.

Re: FR.. I apologize for not giving complete information in my last post. Yes, the measurements were in the exact same location and the same cables were used. One other thing I didn't know to mention in my last post (until Jeff pointed it out this morning), is the fact that the feet of both of Cap S Subs were removed due to height issue with my baffle wall. It's a really tight fit wink.gif Jeff saw this when I sent him my right hand side Cap S to be examined. According to Jeff, this is not good because if air leaks. So when Jeff sent back the Cap S , he said he sealed it and also included felt pad feet. So I guess this means my original Cap S sub on the left side is also exposed to air leaks. I did not know the cabinets were ventilated where the feet are. And I guess the obvious next steps are to seal the holes in the left hand side Cap S and go from there.
Edited by quack724 - 6/26/12 at 9:01am
post #4463 of 18650
Jeff got back to me and Jeff offered to reprogram the amp to get the curves to match. Not sure if the exposed feet holes contribute the FR curves or if it is all DSP. Right now both subs are in baffle wall resting on carpet.
post #4464 of 18650
I'm surprised your installer didn't realize that removing the threaded feet of a sealed sub might be an issue. What Sub EQ is he using?

You should make sure you have the same version DSP on both units and it might be worth it to send the original amp back to Jeff so he can verify. Those amps are fairly small/light so shipping them is easy and you would only be down a sub for a couple of weeks. I know it's a hassle and you are anxious to start using the system. I'm kinda anxious to hear it myself ... cool.gif
post #4465 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I'm surprised your installer didn't realize that removing the threaded feet of a sealed sub might be an issue. What Sub EQ is he using?
You should make sure you have the same version DSP on both units and it might be worth it to send the original amp back to Jeff so he can verify. Those amps are fairly small/light so shipping them is easy and you would only be down a sub for a couple of weeks. I know it's a hassle and you are anxious to start using the system. I'm kinda anxious to hear it myself ... cool.gif

Rob, I am not sure why. Trying to be fair here - it might not have been obvious. Meaning, even when I first noticed the feet were not there, my first thought was the feet holes were not drilled all the way into the main chamber of the sub. i don't really want to point fingers. I knew going in that this was one of the risks/ downsides of using a custom installer but not buying the gear through them.

The Sub Eq is custom made by the installer.

I want to propose to Jeff to send both amps checked to make sure they are both programmed the same. Or better yet, if he could advance replace two amps that are DSP'd the same that would be even better! But I am not sure if the amps are matched to the drivers or not. I'll bounce this off Jeff to see what he says. He may be running super lean and not have extra available amps on hand.

Was hoping everything would be done yesterday so you could come demo sooner than later.
post #4466 of 18650
Well as always the devil is in the details. I think if you just send the older amp back (Jeff would probably pay for that) he could then load the DSP version he just loaded on the replacement amp to ensure they are the same. That way, you would only be down one sub. The native FR actually looks good so they should should sound terrific with your T12's. cool.gif

Jeff does run lean in terms of his amp stock as they are pretty expensive. I wanted him to do that (send me new ones) with my OS amps as the early versions had an occasional power issue and I ended just hand carrying them to Speaker Power in LA (business trip) and they repaired and shipped them back to me within a week. That was a couple of years ago and they have been great ever since. I leave them on all the time and they are built to take much more than I throw at them.
post #4467 of 18650
Just sold my Klipsch KL-650 L-C-R ( Yay !!! )

Based on last many pages of this thread, I am going to order 3 T12 for L-C-R.
Now the next decison will be sealed or vented. I'll give Jeff a call for a quit chat on that.
I do have a pair of Submersive-HP at home to go along with them

- Andy
post #4468 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Lammer View Post

Just sold my Klipsch KL-650 L-C-R ( Yay !!! )
Based on last many pages of this thread, I am going to order 3 T12 for L-C-R.
Now the next decison will be sealed or vented. I'll give Jeff a call for a quit chat on that.
I do have a pair of Submersive-HP at home to go along with them
- Andy

That's great Andy. I'm looking forward to your impressions of the T-12's vs the Klipsch.
post #4469 of 18650
Congrats, that is awesome! I am replacing 3 Axiom M60 Towers with 3 T12s, I ordered in early may and so far Jeff has sent me 2 of my 3, that was a bit over 3 weeks ago. The 2 are amazing! I hope I get word on my third soon, I'm getting anxious!
Anyways, these speakers are the real deal and fit my preferences perfectly. Can't wait to hear the full front stage package!!! biggrin.gif

-RMB
post #4470 of 18650
For L & R I am having have Jeff mount the coax driver on the top.
My next PJ screen will be probabaly 10.5' wide ( non-A.T. screen )
If L & R are standing up, then the coax driver will be more at ear height.
If L & R are lying flat, then the coax driver will be at the far ends, giving a wider front stage.
And if I don't like the results with either, I'll just move the coax back to the middle.

Shockingly ( maybe not ? ) I am going to run the JTR with a Yamaha RX-A3010 receiver and see what I get.
I do have a NuForce 7-channel amp at home too, but am really striving for less gear.
My HT is strictly Blu-Ray watching, and maybe big sporting events -> no audio listening.
For surrounds, I may go with 4 bigger Klipsch inwalls to keep things visually tidy.

- Andy
Edited by Andy Lammer - 7/3/12 at 2:21pm
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