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Official JTR speaker thread - Page 164

post #4891 of 8265
10/7/12 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Very cool. The dynamics are what it is all about. Just cruising along at a comfortable volume and then wham eek.gif. It really is something you have to experience to understand. Welcome aboard ...cool.gif
Oh, and thanks for the tip on Art of Flight. Just ordered from Amazon. smile.gif

It is always amazing when it happens. Causes us to jump out of our seats many many times!

Louis
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post #4892 of 8265
10/7/12 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Very cool. The dynamics are what it is all about. Just cruising along at a comfortable volume and then wham eek.gif. It really is something you have to experience to understand. Welcome aboard ...cool.gif
Oh, and thanks for the tip on Art of Flight. Just ordered from Amazon. smile.gif

Ive been touting that movie from the day it came out. I am a big snow junkie and it is truly amazing what those guys are capapble of. Not only is that soundtrack excellent for speaker demos, but the PQ is second to none. It took them over three years to film the whole thing and they used the same camerais that "Planet Earth" was filmed with smile.gif
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post #4893 of 8265
10/7/12 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brady84 View Post

I did a few demo scenes this morning and also watched Transformers I in it's entirety. One of the things you always hear people talk about when they move to high sensitivity high output speakers for HT is dynamics dynamics dynamics. I didn't quite understand what the fuss was about because I thought I had dynamics when in reality I was hearing very compressed "loud scenes" during movies with my previous setup. The rockets would start to sound harsh with the MV at -7 but it's apparent to me now that they were behaved but compressing significantly near those levels. With the JTR setup the normal parts of the movie sound the same SPL wise as before at -5 to -7 but the loud scenes are insane! The last 30min of Transformers is a real treat on this system, watched the whole movie at -5 which seems to be my current sweet spot volume wise. I'm extremely happy I purchased the S2 to go with the rest of the speakers, there is no way the DD15 even stood a chance with these guys, the energy it puts into the room is incredible. I'm finally able to achieve that full room energized that almost makes you disoriented feeling which I was never able to do before!
If you haven't seen it you owe yourself a treat to the first segment from the Art of Flight Bluray at -12 to -10MV if you have a capable system, the disk is way hot so 0MV is definitely not needed. The sound and visuals and the energy it puts into the room are second to none.
More watching and more reporting back later.

Fantastic room Brady84!

If you thought Transformers 1 was good, try Transformers 2 and 3. Each subsequent movies steps it up a notch in sound quality.

Thanks for the feedback on the S2 btw. I bought this sub without having seen any real reviews on it, so I'm a bit nervous. It didnt help when I saw a recent post with someone who had bought two S2s, and was very much underwhelmed. It appears that the person may be having cancellation issues and incorrectly calibrating the subs, but it still placed a seed of doubt in mind regarding my decision to go with the S2.

How do you find having your centre speaker behind the screen and the left and right outside?

I'm considering a similar placement in the future, but I'm not sure if the sound will be affected. Do you notice a slight change in tone as the sound pans across the front?
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post #4894 of 8265
10/8/12 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

I would assume RMK you are going sealed? Right?
Would assume LF extension via ported wouldn't be needed therefore a sealed cabinet would give better transient response over a broader spectrum. Sure giving these new speakers a serious look...............

Well you got me thinking (always a dangerous thing tongue.gif ) and after mulling it over I decided to go with the sealed Noesis 212HT-LP's for LCR. One of the factors is that I have been using the sealed Triple8's surrounds as my L&R mains for a few weeks now and I'm really like them. Also. the LCR's are are behind my AT screen with their backs against the front wall so with the LP's being a bit more boundary friendly, I decided to go in that direction.

Jeff is still tweaking but i am hoping they ship later this week.
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post #4895 of 8265
10/8/12 at 5:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post


Well you got me thinking (always a dangerous thing tongue.gif ) and after mulling it over I decided to go with the sealed Noesis 212HT-LP's for LCR. One of the factors is that I have been using the sealed Triple8's surrounds as my L&R mains for a few weeks now and I'm really like them. Also. the LCR's are are behind my AT screen with their backs against the front wall so with the LP's being a bit more boundary friendly, I decided to go in that direction.
Jeff is still tweaking but i am hoping they ship later this week.

      Rmk i believe you are making an excellent choice! Going with the sealed noesis 212ht will afford you a wider range of placement flexability.

      Having the L&R fronts flanking the screen, toed towards the money seat will expand the dynamics of the sound even farther .  

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post #4896 of 8265
10/8/12 at 5:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Well you got me thinking (always a dangerous thing tongue.gif ) and after mulling it over I decided to go with the sealed Noesis 212HT-LP's for LCR. One of the factors is that I have been using the sealed Triple8's surrounds as my L&R mains for a few weeks now and I'm really like them. Also. the LCR's are are behind my AT screen with their backs against the front wall so with the LP's being a bit more boundary friendly, I decided to go in that direction.
Jeff is still tweaking but i am hoping they ship later this week.

I believe you will be happier with the sealed................I agree, the mids will be at a small disadvantage, but you'll be much happier with the overall response in the higher realm. I've always preferred sealed, but that is my preference. The sealed version will most definitely give you a placement advantage.
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post #4897 of 8265
10/8/12 at 8:34pm
^ Thanks fellas, I am optimistic and anxious. smile.gif
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post #4898 of 8265
10/8/12 at 11:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Well you got me thinking (always a dangerous thing tongue.gif ) and after mulling it over I decided to go with the sealed Noesis 212HT-LP's for LCR. One of the factors is that I have been using the sealed Triple8's surrounds as my L&R mains for a few weeks now and I'm really like them. Also. the LCR's are are behind my AT screen with their backs against the front wall so with the LP's being a bit more boundary friendly, I decided to go in that direction.
Jeff is still tweaking but i am hoping they ship later this week.

I originally was mulling over the vented as well, as i didnt want to compromise midbass.

But ultimately, for the advantages people have noted above, i went sealed.

I also thought the noeisis would look much better as a sealed enclosure than vented. After seeing the photos posted up so far, i'm glad i went the way i did.

Btw rmk, have you had any feedback from jeff on how the speakers are sounding?

He mentioned to me that the noesis has more headroom than the regular T12s and the horn loaded midrange sounds so effortless.
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post #4899 of 8265
10/9/12 at 3:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by superaaaaa View Post

I originally was mulling over the vented as well, as i didnt want to compromise midbass.
But ultimately, for the advantages people have noted above, i went sealed.
I also thought the noeisis would look much better as a sealed enclosure than vented. After seeing the photos posted up so far, i'm glad i went the way i did.
Btw rmk, have you had any feedback from jeff on how the speakers are sounding?
He mentioned to me that the noesis has more headroom than the regular T12s and the horn loaded midrange sounds so effortless.

As you may have noticed, Jeff is not one to start throwing out a lot of superlatives wink.gif. He has said that the Noesis speakers sound great and have less distortion which allows them to play louder. That is a characteristic of the current Triple 12 so I can't imagine that will be a standout feature for me. Honestly, I don't think that I will hear much difference between the models as the Triple 12's were so good at accurately reproducing everything I listened to. If they provide a bit more resolution/detail I will be happy.

I know $2K sounds like a lot to some folks for an HT speaker. But as a person who has spent several times that amount on speakers for my HT they seem very reasonably priced. I remember Mark Seaton telling me that Jeff doesn't charge enough for his products and based purely on build/component quality and performance, I agree ... they are an amazing value. cool.gif
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post #4900 of 8265
10/9/12 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

I believe you will be happier with the sealed................I agree, the mids will be at a small disadvantage, but you'll be much happier with the overall response in the higher realm. I've always preferred sealed, but that is my preference. The sealed version will most definitely give you a placement advantage.

Still shopping around, eh? cool.gif I hope your HT plans have come along, if I remember you were using Dennis?

We've been rocking T8-HT's up front and S8-HTLPs for side and rear surrounds for just over a year now, matched up with a couple Seaton Submersives. I don't listen at reference any more since inducing a little right sided hearing loss and tinnitus while watching the third installment of Lord of the Rings, but I have to say that at -10 to -15 the system just rocks. And I'm just running these off an Anthem AVR. I can't even imagine what upgrading to the new Noeisis models would bring to the table for me on a practical level, other than more refinement, but I still want them! After a year of use and comparison with a relatively pedestrian Triad in-ceiling system with dipole surrounds, I can say I have mixed feelings on the surrounds. When there is detailed multichannel content, such as front to back pans, rear gunfire, etc. I prefer the S8's. When there is ambient noise like crickets chirping that should be diffuse and nonlocalizable, I prefer dipoles. My dedicated room is only around 16' wide, and there is too much localization of ambient noise if you're sitting in the side seats, but it isn't much of an issue sitting in the sweet spots. Letting the AVR engage the rears with 5.1 tracks mitigates this to a degree as well.

Fight on!!!
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post #4901 of 8265
10/9/12 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by uscmatt99 View Post

Still shopping around, eh? cool.gif I hope your HT plans have come along, if I remember you were using Dennis?
We've been rocking T8-HT's up front and S8-HTLPs for side and rear surrounds for just over a year now, matched up with a couple Seaton Submersives. I don't listen at reference any more since inducing a little right sided hearing loss and tinnitus while watching the third installment of Lord of the Rings, but I have to say that at -10 to -15 the system just rocks. And I'm just running these off an Anthem AVR. I can't even imagine what upgrading to the new Noeisis models would bring to the table for me on a practical level, other than more refinement, but I still want them! After a year of use and comparison with a relatively pedestrian Triad in-ceiling system with dipole surrounds, I can say I have mixed feelings on the surrounds. When there is detailed multichannel content, such as front to back pans, rear gunfire, etc. I prefer the S8's. When there is ambient noise like crickets chirping that should be diffuse and nonlocalizable, I prefer dipoles. My dedicated room is only around 16' wide, and there is too much localization of ambient noise if you're sitting in the side seats, but it isn't much of an issue sitting in the sweet spots. Letting the AVR engage the rears with 5.1 tracks mitigates this to a degree as well.
Fight on!!!

Interesting points Matt. I wonder if Jeff has considered building a dipole version of the sealed Single 8? Another option (if you have the ceiling height) is to place the Slanted 8's higher . I am using them as height and surround backs and they are well above seated head height but aimed down at the sweet spot. That seems to help the localization issue with the side seats and the effect is really enveloping for the center seats.

My processor (Integra 80.3) is sending a signal to all 9 speakers for movies and if I had the room width, I would add wides for an 11.2.

I prefer 5.2 for most music and concerts and the sound at the center seats is perfect.
Edited by RMK! - 10/9/12 at 10:44am
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post #4902 of 8265
10/9/12 at 12:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

. I am using them as height... and they are well above seated head height but aimed down at the sweet spot. That seems to help the localization issue with the side seats and the effect is really enveloping for the center seats.

I'm considering the slanted 8's for this as well. So, do you have these in a corner to aim them at the sweet spot? I was considering just mounting them flush to the wall about a foot or two farther out than the mains.
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post #4903 of 8265
10/9/12 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogues View Post

I'm considering the slanted 8's for this as well. So, do you have these in a corner to aim them at the sweet spot? I was considering just mounting them flush to the wall about a foot or two farther out than the mains.

My height speakers are ceiling mounted via a bracket. They are 4' above, slightly outboard and a foot or so in front of the mains with the same toe-in as the mains so yes, aimed at the sweet spot. The natural front baffle angle of the Slanted 8's was perfect for my positioning and use.

There are pics in my build thread and probably this one too. They are all over (like a cheap suit on a kangaroo tongue.gif ).
Edited by RMK! - 10/9/12 at 1:06pm
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post #4904 of 8265
10/9/12 at 3:56pm
Does anyone have concerns with the Noesis horn being too narrow at 60 degrees horizontal? This seem like a big change from the 12" coax driver. I would have expected a 90 degree horn to be more accommodating. My room is narrow and long, so it might be just the ticket properly aimed to keep the sound off the walls.

Also doesn't the horn seem a little small to support horn loading at 400Hz? I would have expected a horn with approx a 1 foot mouth to be done around 1000hz.

Just some thoughts I've been having...
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post #4905 of 8265
10/9/12 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

My height speakers are ceiling mounted via a bracket. They are 4' above, slightly outboard and a foot or so in front of the mains with the same toe-in as the mains so yes, aimed at the sweet spot. The natural front baffle angle of the Slanted 8's was perfect for my positioning and use.
There are pics in my build thread and probably this one too. They are all over (like a cheap suit on a kangaroo tongue.gif ).

Ha, I have gone over your photos about a hundred times each! I would really like to try front heights and wides, but I'm concerned about the final price. Any opinions on using sho-10's to start and upgrading later?
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post #4906 of 8265
10/9/12 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinculum View Post

Does anyone have concerns with the Noesis horn being too narrow at 60 degrees horizontal? This seem like a big change from the 12" coax driver. I would have expected a 90 degree horn to be more accommodating. My room is narrow and long, so it might be just the ticket properly aimed to keep the sound off the walls.
Also doesn't the horn seem a little small to support horn loading at 400Hz? I would have expected a horn with approx a 1 foot mouth to be done around 1000hz.
Just some thoughts I've been having...

Interesting questions. My room is an irregular shape but 21' wide at the widest spot. The seating area is approx 13' at the widest (4 seats in the front row, 3 in the back) and the front row is 12.5' from the speaker front. The horn's center will be aimed at the LP (sweet spot) seated ear level so that coverage pattern should be more than adequate. My HT seems a fairly typical size so a speaker with a 60 degree horizontal dispersion pattern that by design limits early reflections, is a good thing. We shall see ... (err hear wink.gif)

As to the horn loading @ 400hz, I think Jeff knows this stuff well enough to be correct on that point. smile.gif
Edited by RMK! - 10/10/12 at 7:27am
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post #4907 of 8265
10/9/12 at 6:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by uscmatt99 View Post

I don't listen at reference any more since inducing a little right sided hearing loss and tinnitus while watching the third installment of Lord of the Rings, but I have to say that at -10 to -15 the system just rocks.

You got hearing loss and tinnitus from ROTK at reference?
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post #4908 of 8265
10/9/12 at 11:11pm
Snow Boarding Movie by Red Bull called "Art of Flight". Mountain snow boarding in Alaska, BC, Jackson Hole, Andes, and tip of south America. Your system will get a workout.
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post #4909 of 8265
10/9/12 at 11:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

You got hearing loss and tinnitus from ROTK at reference?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinnitus#Prevention
Quote:
Prolonged exposure to sound or noise levels as low as 70 dB can result in damage to hearing

Isn't standard speech level rated at 75dB? If that is the case, watching even a love story movie at reference level will result in hearing loss?
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post #4910 of 8265
10/10/12 at 2:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinnitus#Prevention
Isn't standard speech level rated at 75dB? If that is the case, watching even a love story movie at reference level will result in hearing loss?

I don't think reference level has anything to do with that one. It's the whole love story movie thing that may cause hearing loss.
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post #4911 of 8265
10/10/12 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogues View Post

Ha, I have gone over your photos about a hundred times each! I would really like to try front heights and wides, but I'm concerned about the final price. Any opinions on using sho-10's to start and upgrading later?

I honestly don't know what to say about that except that it is good to have and stick to a budget. That said, I'm of the opinion that good engineering, build quality and components are necessary for accurate sound reproduction without distortion. For me, that means a certain threshold in terms of cost. That may be a foolish bias ... but I own it smile.gif .

Of course the inverse it true too. There are ridiculously expensive products that sell well based upon good marketing and perceived performance. I think that is primarily a desire for exclusivity. To each his own ... smile.gif
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post #4912 of 8265
10/10/12 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Snow Boarding Movie by Red Bull called "Art of Flight". Mountain snow boarding in Alaska, BC, Jackson Hole, Andes, and tip of south America. Your system will get a workout.

Did you get that from me? haha. son of a motherless goat!
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post #4913 of 8265
10/10/12 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Did you get that from me? haha. son of a motherless goat!

I might have, seen it somewhere on these forums. Anyway, my JTR's were putting out the sound with the Submersives and the seat was rocken. Video was especially cool with the Darby on my 82" mitsu.

Bill
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post #4914 of 8265
10/10/12 at 2:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Interesting points Matt. I wonder if Jeff has considered building a dipole version of the sealed Single 8? Another option (if you have the ceiling height) is to place the Slanted 8's higher . I am using them as height and surround backs and they are well above seated head height but aimed down at the sweet spot. That seems to help the localization issue with the side seats and the effect is really enveloping for the center seats.
My processor (Integra 80.3) is sending a signal to all 9 speakers for movies and if I had the room width, I would add wides for an 11.2.
I prefer 5.2 for most music and concerts and the sound at the center seats is perfect.

I had to use the LP's for my room as the speakers are integrated into false columns with AT fabric. They are centered about 2' above ear height, which seems to help combat the localization. I haven't felt the need for wides just yet. The geometry of my room, screen size and seating allowed me to put the left and right mains just within the edges of the AT screen, toed in probably 30-40 degrees. There is room for wides, but it would be near a side wall, so I'd have to really toe in the speakers and treat the walls with some absorption, presumably. If I were to upgrade to the Noeisis speakers, I'd use 2 T8s for wides. Maybe buy one more to give me 2 heights? That would make me giddy eek.gif
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post #4915 of 8265
10/10/12 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinnitus#Prevention
Isn't standard speech level rated at 75dB? If that is the case, watching even a love story movie at reference level will result in hearing loss?

I should qualify that this occurred with my AVR set to around -3dB, an Anthem MRX 500. I don't know what the actual SPLs were, never measured. I can only say that I didn't hear anything that sounded like distortion, and that the internal amps are rated to 100 watts per channel continuous running 2 channels, whatever that means in reality. I sit at about 9' from the mains on average. I'll let someone else hash out the math. For now, I'll usually watch at -12 to -16 when it's just my wife and I or me alone, -20 when my kid is there, and -25 when we have our neighbors over. He's an otolaryngologist rolleyes.gif

My understanding is that people are pretty heterogenous in their tolerance to high SPL, and it's a function of SPL and duration that is important. One short peak at 120dB is unlikely to do anything.
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post #4916 of 8265
10/10/12 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinnitus#Prevention
Isn't standard speech level rated at 75dB? If that is the case, watching even a love story movie at reference level will result in hearing loss?

I know what Tinnitus is but it's impossible to get it or hearing loss from one movie. My Father in Law is a ear, nose and throat doc and this exact same info has been discussed time and time again. You would have to be well into the 160dB range to actually get noticeable hearing loss from 1 movie and it would have to have been constant. Getting tinnitus from 1 movie is 100% impossible. Either Matt had it before and just noticed it, or it's not tinnitus and is something else. Thats coming from the mouth of a doc thats been in the field for 35 years.

I used to be in dB drag races and my car could hit 158dB's when I had my kicker solo x's in there. I sat in there may times with no hearing protection as did everyone else. If you could get noticeable loss from that, I'd be 100% deaf 15 years ago, when in fact, my hearing is very good for my age. I have it tested every 6 months at my work.
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post #4917 of 8265
10/10/12 at 6:07pm
i've had temporary tinnitus after several of this boards subwoofer meets at far less than 160 dB.


noticeable ringing in my ears for up to a month. it has always gone away......but its something I cant deny. I have excellent hearing according to my audiologist. i have a tiny tiny bit that lingers that i only notice in absolutely silent rooms...but i'd think people probably have different tolerances.


i thought 160db could actually be unhealthy outside of hearing damage?
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post #4918 of 8265
10/10/12 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by uscmatt99 View Post

Still shopping around, eh? cool.gif I hope your HT plans have come along, if I remember you were using Dennis?
We've been rocking T8-HT's up front and S8-HTLPs for side and rear surrounds for just over a year now, matched up with a couple Seaton Submersives. I don't listen at reference any more since inducing a little right sided hearing loss and tinnitus while watching the third installment of Lord of the Rings, but I have to say that at -10 to -15 the system just rocks. And I'm just running these off an Anthem AVR. I can't even imagine what upgrading to the new Noeisis models would bring to the table for me on a practical level, other than more refinement, but I still want them! After a year of use and comparison with a relatively pedestrian Triad in-ceiling system with dipole surrounds, I can say I have mixed feelings on the surrounds. When there is detailed multichannel content, such as front to back pans, rear gunfire, etc. I prefer the S8's. When there is ambient noise like crickets chirping that should be diffuse and nonlocalizable, I prefer dipoles. My dedicated room is only around 16' wide, and there is too much localization of ambient noise if you're sitting in the side seats, but it isn't much of an issue sitting in the sweet spots. Letting the AVR engage the rears with 5.1 tracks mitigates this to a degree as well.
Fight on!!!

Hi Matt! Long time no read..............wink.gif

Always great to hear from a fellow Trojan.............kinda sucks Khaled Holmes was hurt for the Trees game..........would be fighting with Alabama for the pole position, but wiith that said, we win out and we're in the title game!! BTW, I'll be in Seattle for the Huskies game and meet up with one of my ex-players who now is on the coaching staff. Will be great to see the young man........good times.

Yeah, still shopping as we finally sold our home and close in November. Two plus years is a long time to have a home on the market not to mention taking a huge hit on selling price. My new dedicated theater room is going to take a hit too, thus the reason why I'm looking for alternatives to Triad Plats! Yes, Dennis Erskine will be designing the room............I was actually contemplating have him build the room, but my home selling loss has been tough to stomach!!!!

A big "Fight On!" to you too!! V
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post #4919 of 8265
10/10/12 at 8:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonleepenn View Post

      Rmk i believe you are making an excellent choice! Going with the sealed noesis 212ht will afford you a wider range of placement flexability.
      Having the L&R fronts flanking the screen, toed towards the money seat will expand the dynamics of the sound even farther .  

With horns, you might want to actually aim the front left speaker at the front right seat and aim the front right speaker at the front left seat. Should give you even coverage (wider sound stage) in all of the seats.

Added
Like Beastaudio, I to am going to DIY, using some AE drivers. It will be interesting to compare to my JTR's. It will be at least two months before this happens, since I bet it is 6 weeks before I get the drivers.
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post #4920 of 8265
10/11/12 at 7:27am
Lot's of DIY interest these days. Funny that holds little or no interest for me. I have built sailboats, houses and even worked on cars in years past to save $ or for the challenge. Heck I even built my HT room but I have no interest in building speakers or subs. Maybe when I retire (whatever that means wink.gif) and if I needed a hobby I'll gain an interest. For now, there are much better ways to spend my time and time is money ... smile.gif
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