Official JTR speaker thread - Page 195

How do you EQ 9 (or even 5-7channels) with your DCX? The process of measuring from different seating locations in a HT room and then averaging those measurements would be daunting to say the least. Of course, if you only care about one location sounding good I suppose it would be somewhat easier but something like Audyssey MultEQ-XT32 is going to do a damn site better job overall in a room than I could and that's not even talking about the subs.

I always eq to one location, as MK does as well IIRC. Otherwise you are correct, it would be like chasing your own tail to manually eq across 5-6 seating locations, haha. Not something I would like to do.

Always give Jeff a direct call for your best deal. He does not always charge listed prices but I am sure it will depend on availability.
Cash (cashiers check) should save at least 3% over PayPal and CC. Every dollar counts.
Chris

And, he'll give you another 2% off if you include a vial of blood (he prefers type O) ...

What kind of warranty do you get with JTR purchases from Jeff?

He might need Christmas help too. Mabey a debt could be worked off.
On the Eq subject I know your talking about Audyssey XT32 as I use but are the rest of the ones that dont like it using Multi XT32 version or just the old version?
I dont like dynamic EQ for sure but the rest seems pretty damn convenient. What about the Pro version?
Chris

its 5 years. someone else will have to answer on what exactly it covers as i do not know

Well, I have measured and posted this before but I treated my room well enough that once I EQ my center front seat to flat(+/- 3 dBs) the rest of my seats are within +/- 5 dBs. Call me lucky or whatever but each seat is really good(I have 7). Yes, I agree with you in a typical room it can be tough without a room EQ because each seat can be very different. This is why they make room treatments in the first place but it does not work perfect for the bass response unless they are very thick. My 4 corner bass traps(ceiling to floor) do wonders for that though. I guess people need to decide what they are willing to sacrifice, a couple of awesome seats or the whole room sounding good enough, it is up to the individual. Now if Audyssey sounds better no matter what then use it. I am for using whatever works for someone. Every room and every person is different.

5 years on the speakers but you pay shipping both ways (keep the boxes ).

I think most of the negative comments are relative to pre XT32 Audyssey. It is much better than previous versions as it does the entire FR subs included. Beasts "chasing your tail" metaphor is a good one for a hobbyist EQing a system. I talked with Keith Yates about the process he uses in fine tuning one of his megabuck systems and it is crazy complicated. Well beyond the capabilities of a common man.

Audyssey (XT32) is easy and in MHO most rooms would measure better overall with it rather than any manual EQ process. Again for one point in space measurements, the manual process is fine.

So your DCX handles all 7 channels? What about the subs?

Nope, just the channels that need EQ. The room does the rest just fine. I ran Audyssey and MCACC in my room many times and when I measured with REW I was not flat at all. Hey, the back left seat was awesome, too bad the main front center seat sucked. My speakers are tricky though and not normal. Very high sensitivity really screws up auto EQ sometimes. I measure myself and fix myself until it sounds right to me and then have at least 10 different help me decide on what sounds best. It is actually fun to tweak for me but my room is setup to be easily tweaked with REW and my computer.

BTW, my center channel is the only speaker that really needs EQ, my subs need a LT boost so they are hooked up to it as well. Have you measured all your speakers response at every seat? Individaully, together, what makes it sound good to you? Just use what you like, have you tried manual EQ at all for your speakers? No EQ? etc..

The funny thing is it is very complicated, do you measure each channel at each seat, what happens when they are all on, how about just the center and a side surround? Has anyone ever measured their system after Audyssey EQ'd like this? What happens? Do we care what happens as long as it sounds good? If it sounds good do we want to know why, I do.
Edited by MKtheater - 12/4/12 at 10:50am

So just the L&R? ... LCR? The surrounds don't need EQ?

What version of Audyssey and what about your subs?

Sorry for all the questions but I am constantly hearing how guys use DCX (or similar) to EQ their systems and I'm trying to figure out what exactly they are EQing vs not EQing.

BTW, I get what you are saying about room treatments doing a lot of the work. My room measures pretty flat (XTZ Room Analyzer) raw but Audyssey XT32 makes it sound better with the smooth integration of the subs being the biggest benefit.
Edited by RMK! - 12/4/12 at 10:47am

Yes, but do you measure at every seat? Which speakers do you run for that measurement?

I EQ my center and use the DCX on my subs for under 20hz boost and delay settings for a nice crossover region integration. It is funny that every speaker that is near a side wall does not need EQ in my room. I stopped thinking about all the combinations and what happens to each and focused on each speaker at the main seat and then hear how it sounds. I then measured each seat to see what happens. It does change the response but not enough to warrant another EQ change. I wonder how cinemas EQ to all those seats because I know it still sounds the best towards the middle of my local theater and up close so you could feel the subs, but not too close where the screen is too big.

With the warranty, do you know if they transfer ownership if you buy used speakers from someone?

If you've run Audyssey I'm sure you know this but Audyssey XT32 allows for 8 measured positions and measures every speaker and two subs at each location. The Pro Kit allows for 32 position measurement and essentially virtual +or-3db adjustments along the frequency range for each speaker. I had the Pro Kit but sold it when I bought my new Integra with XT32. That may have been a mistake as it is a very powerful tool and kinda fun to use, but XT32 did such a good job in my room that I felt it really wasn't needed.

It varies but basically I do the front 4 seats, two measurements 2' in front of the front row and two measurements for the back row 2' behind the center two front row seats. The measured area is roughly 8' wide and 6' deep. All the seats sound good but the two center fronts are best.

The nice thing about Audyssey is it is simple and although it takes a good 30-40 minutes to do the whole process, compare that to any manual process ...

I know with omnimic you can do an average. You could do an 8 spot (or however many you want) average and then eq that to have best compromise between those 8 spots. If you measure response of locations pre audyssey, you can avoid a bad eq spot, such as one that is drastically different than your MLP. You can also do an averaging in and around a single MLP.

The ongoing debate is eqing above the transition frequency. I think FOH has a great post here, I will be following along to see how it all works out for him.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1442487/how-easy-and-at-what-cost-can-audyssey-xt-32-be-beat#post_22653817

Thats what I do and it is easy and sounds great. I think the Pro version allows for better coverage of more seats or a wider sweet spot.
N8dogg has 80.3 with the Audyssey pro kit and he seems to swear by it.
Chris

Oh Yeah and JTR speakers are very easy to tame.

I'm sure he will.
There just is not much that can go wrong with speakers. I really have not heard of anything. Most repairs if needed can be done at home.
Powered products get 2 years on the amps. Electronics fail more so than speakers.
Chris

Yeah I am just curious as I may purchase some 2nd hand and it is always nice to know you have the backing of the seller.

The thing that concerns me still is purchasing these blindly. I know I will be happy no matter what speakers I purchase, but still it would be much nicer to demo them in person to hear them.

The used ones are from the guy on these forums selling the 3 T12's and 2 T8's LP versions.

I just wish I could personally hear how they would compare to the Klipsch RF-7 II and RC-64 II setup as well as to a B&W CM9 and CMC2 setup.

From my research on these forums, the JTR's seem to be much better suited for my wants/needs which is primarily movies, tv, and video games. Music alone is a pretty distant next.

But still ... spending $5k+ on stuff you've never heard before is just a hard thing to do.

His are the 2012 models (came out in DEC 11) and is an excellent deal.
As far as the other brands go no matter what, they cost more coming from an authorized dealer. Even when purchasing used someone had to bite the MSRP bullet.
JTR or any ID company will always give more bang for the $$$$$. 5K for $7500. worth of speakers is always better than spending 10K on 5k speakers (Klipsch or DefTech)
HEARSAY
I have been told my T12's do a better job than the above mentioned Klipsch. Since opinions vary Thats me trying to put it nice.
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 12/4/12 at 12:09pm

IMHO, that price mitigates a lot of the risk factor and makes it a no-brainer but if you're really that uncomfortable with a blind buy, don't do it.

I am using XT32 and I will certainly agree that it does a MUCH better job than the regular version, especially in the bass region.


I spent every dime on the stuff in my theater, therefore I am going to optimize my seat and screw everyone else (DISCLAIMER: Opinion subject to change once kids are in the picture)

With that said, manual EQ for me is certainly not out of the question and with the subs, I actually prefer the manual over the SubEQ for all but the XO region, which is difficult.


WIth the DCX you will get eq, for Frequency and Time domain, so there is definitely a LOT to screw up, but even Audyssey sometimes cannot get the XO region as good as possible, I have also too many times liked the Audyssey sweep I have done, but then have been able to go back in and make the response even BETTER with the DCX. This is why I am considering doing the same for the L/R and then eventually the center as well (Once I have one again)

Beast
Man that is alot of work. One day I might be interested to go the next step in EQ.
Which means when the next version of Audyssey comes out I plan on getting a new a avr or pre/pro with that version on it.
I definately only care about my LP. If I ever feel like sharing the sweet spot I will get Audyssey Pro.
Chris

I will say this about audyssey pro, if you are mostly watching movies or gaming, it's of no use to you. Music? ya sure, it does make a difference but after doing a ton of pro installs, I REALLY don't think it worth it for anybody to actually go out and buy a kit. I've given up on using it as I'm always changing gear and the pro install take a good 2-3 hours to do. XT32 is good enough for me. I also use the DCX and it's a really great piece of gear. If Minidps would get off their asses and make a xlr box, I'd love to try it out but if they won't support it, I'm not buying one.

MCACC and Audyssey don't always get it right. It drives me up the wall sometimes that movies are different with audio from time to time. The best way I found to calibrate with MCACC using JTR speakers is; tell auto MCACC that you have THX speakers and click Ok to run.: In speaker setup menu, set the speaker distances to what they actually using a tape measure. Millaseconds is pretty fast for the signal to travel so I don't worry about what MCACC originally set the distances at. Go to manual MCACC and do fine distance speaker settings. Check all speaker levels with a spl meter and set to 75 db including the sub. Exit and copy to another profile for safe keeping. I also do a profile for 3 positions and save that too. Now, someone will say that this is not accurate EQ'ng. True, but when unlce Ned comes into your HT room and parks his 400 lb butt in a seat or all your seats get filled with relatives wanting to watch a movie, your EG'ng changes anyway. Have a setup in a living room? Wife moves a chair or table and doesn't tell you, changes again. I used my Denon 4311 for my living room setup (Polk RT5000p & dual MFW-15's) and things sometimes change in that room. Do I get anal and do a calbibration? Hell no as it is just for TV progrraming anyway and it still sounds good in a untreated huge living room. The HT room is different and I do try to keep it prestine with the JTR's and Pio SC-67.

Ahh yes, uncle Ned, the human bass trap.

lol!

This sounds like a very reasonable approach to me.

carp....I'm sure glad you brought these Noesis speakers over to my house last week. I'm digging them. Up too late tonight just chilling out listening to them with a smile on my face.

Currently listening to Steve Strauss - Just Like Love

These speakers give up nothing to any speakers I've ever heard.

Somebody tell Jeff these speakers aren't gonna make it to Des Moines.

RMK was gracious enough to give a demo of his system tonight. I was in the Sacramento area for work and sent him a PM.

There were two things I wanted to hear, and both happen to be JTR products… The Triple12, and the OS. It just so happens, he recently sold the T12s and has bran new Neosis for LCR. Even better!

First off, his theater room is awesome. Aesthetically pleasing, spacious, great acoustics after what he’s done to it, and the AT screen is just beautiful. My theater room, called “the dungeon”, or “the scary room” by my wife, looks even worse now, and that shouldn’t be possible. Thanks a lot, Rob…

Anyway, on to my impressions, and I think Jeff did a fantastic job with the Neosis. I’ve been dabbling in the DIY world, most recently working on building crossovers, and for the 12s in the Neosis to blend in as well and they do with the CD, Jeff is really doing a quality job with that crossover. Just amazing. I don’t want to guess as to how many hours he put into R&D for the crossover for this speaker! Highs were crisp and clean, not harsh, and the mids blended seamlessly and were very detailed. At several points in the demo Rob exceeded +5db in the main volume, and Neosis didn’t even blink. Never sounded strained or distorted ever.

As for the bass, I feel I’ve heard the best of what’s out there, and I wasn’t expecting to being impressed by two 18s, regardless of their configuration. I was definitely wrong! For starters, the obit shifters are HUGE. Pictures don’t paint the whole picture here. Second, having never heard a horn loaded sub before, they do have a “unique” sound to them, and I’m saying that in a completely positive way. Great punch, great detail, and great sub 20hz response and tactile feel. I know for a fact that at certain points in the demo the orbit shifters exceeded 125db, and they did so effortlessly. Considering I have quad LMS 5400s and 16kw worth of power feeding them, I didn’t expect two 18s and half the power to accomplish what they did. I may have to build four “gjallarhorn” enclosures for my 5400s now

Thanks for the demo, Rob!