Official JTR speaker thread - Page 197

Oh, 4 Horsemen too, hopefully in it's entirety.

Well, i've nixed the plans for stands for my Noesis. Instead, Mark from Mach 5 is giving me his prototype LLE 18" driver when he's done in a week or so. So I've decided that subs IN stands, are better than just stands My poor house is gonna fall down one of these days! 4 x 21's and now 8 x 18's. crappy part is now I have to run new lines for power. who would have though that 8 x 20A and 2 x 30A lines wouldn't be enough for 1 room heheheheh!!!

I think every album through "Justice" is a Masterpiece and the Black album(Sandman) was good but Load and Reload is just a different band.
The last almost 20 years would be considered good if it were not for the first10 -12 years. Those years Metallica is/was my favorite band hands down.
I saw them Woodstock 94 and at least 20 other occassions. Saw them open up for GNR in NC 92 when they alternated between shows.
The later albums are just complete let downs but thier concerts are always good. They just sound great live. Leper Messiah, Creeping Death, whiplash, Fade to Black, and AM I EVIL !!!! There is no such thing as a favorite song because ther are to many complete masterpieces. 7 -12 minute songs with so many time changes and 10,000 word lyrics. They truly are The Best of the Best. True Musicians.
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 12/6/12 at 4:35am

Nate that has go to be awesome. After I added an OS to my sub configuration I thought I would never want more woofage, but now I am thinking how fun it would be to add another. It is so addictive. I was also thinking of IB since I have a utility room adjacent to the theater. Are any of yours IB? i need to go over to the DIY and learn more about IB.

It is good for me to see someone like you who re-defines excess. I feel so reasonable and conservative after reading your posts .
Have you posted pictures of your room with subs?

I will be havin' that Just checked one of the newer Megadeth Blu's and it was pretty good too Dave can still rip for sure.


My address is....Lol


Might also want to check out the Cult of the Infinitely Baffled. Lots of good info there.

Can you believe Metallica kicked him out for partying too hard. Partying too hard to be in Metallica? In the early 80's no less. Now that is Crazy!!! I saw dave and Megadeth open for STP in 93
Peace Sells but Who"s Buying
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 12/6/12 at 9:36am

They've just all become old and more business minded - party's over, time to focus on making money.....

IMHO, there is barely a Metallica album I can handle listening to. Whoever was doing the mixing on all their albums was F'in deaf.... Way to bright and burns your ears.....

Now with that said, if you haven't checked out Live at Nimes - that whole concert sounds exceptional in the mixing dept, and with the right system will shake the hell outta your house if your a fan.


http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Metallica-Francais-pour-une-nuit-Live-aux-Arenes-de-Nimes-2009-Blu-ray/7833/

I use to listen to Metallica on cassette tape thru my Sony Walkman. Anything sounds better than those days.
I need to mention Pantera Vulgar Display of Power as that is the Best album cover and has brutal lyrics. Saw them open for Janes Addiction in 92.
All this old metal to me just sounds so sweet on the T12's and SubM HP's. It sounds better than live.
Most all stadium concert recordings lack quality control but they do inspire great memories.
Thanks for the link Warp I will add that to my collection.
Chris

You can watch the whole Nimes concert on youtube, make sure you switch resolution to 720. Sounds incredible for not being 5.1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMpKsRcGyTI

As far as production of albums go, I think I'm the only guy that loves how And Justice for All is produced. I'm a sucker for crunchy sounding guitars that are way up front in the mix. I know there is no bass guitar but I'm too busy nodding my head (used to be banging my head) along to the JSHUNT JSHUNT JSHUNT guitar sound. Combine that production with varied tempo/time signatures and some beautiful lead solos on top of the crunchiness (see To Live is To Die - 5:00-7:00 miniute mark roughly for a great example) and I'm in heaven.

I'll preface my post by saying I have been following this thread for a few years and will eventually own some JTRs and or Seatons. The Neosis is right at the top of my list and, once the theater downstairs nears completion, I will definitely be calling Jeff for a blind purchase. After reading here for a few years I have enough faith in everyone's reactions to know I'll be getting more than what I pay for with his speakers.

My future JTR speakers aside, I ordered AOF and watched if for the first time with my brother in law a couple of days ago. The Deadmau5 sequence in Alaska had our jaws on the floor. I wanted to crank it but his ears were starting to give way around 115 db at LP (nothing like you JTR folks and especially RMK are experiencing). This blu-ray has become my demo material for any guests. Mind you I have a relatively modest setup (higher end Def Techs and a THT) in an untreated room but this blu-ray sounds and looks amazing. I could only imagine a full JTR setup in a well treated and sealed room. I'll be jealous and living vicariously through all of you JTR owners for the foreseeable future but be sure keep the neosis reviews coming in! I love reading about everyone's experiences with these speakers and dreaming about the day I'll own or even experience them for myself.

-Cyneric

"Justice" should be considered the apex of their career as it was all downhill from there. I listen to that album more than any other and if I could only have one that would be it. That album showcases all of what Metallica means to me.
Chris

This is how I purchased my T12's too. I still love reading reviews of all JTR products as it excites me and gets my blood boiling. The wait is worth it and it will be a nice move going from DefTechs. The big difference is you can listen at reference without the hearing fatigue. It does not make your ears hurt especially when comparing to Deftech. My ears used to feel like they were bleeding at -10 and could not take more than 15 -30 minutes. Now I listen for 2hrs straight at reference with little to no problem. The Noesis is the next level of sound clarity and is reported (RMK) to go past reference without fatigue. That is Amazing to me.
Good Luck
Chris

I am reluctant to make recommendations for a blind purchase of any speaker but based upon your comments I am willing to say I think you are on the right track ...

I hope I have never claimed over reference without fatigue and certainly don't recommend it. The Noesis (and Triple 12's for that matter) are undistorted and clean to simply crazy (i.e. damaging) levels of SPL. It was interesting (and disturbing ) that ref +10db on the Noesis/OS combo was so listenable. It's scary that a system can play cleanly that loud and those of us that own them need to be responsible (my god, I'm giving a PSA ).

When lukeamdman was here for the demo he said (I'm paraphrasing) after spending thousands of dollars and many hours on a system, he wanted a system without practical limits. I know what he means and that was the thinking that led me to where I am today. I try and use that power responsibly but every once in a while it is fun to just let it go ... It's not unlike driving a great handling car or motorcycle really FAST. Gets the old heart pumping ...

He came through A-town two years ago and I got to catch him then. It was a GREAT show.

It's only $265 on Amazon ... such a deal.

Rob
I messed that up a little bit but what I meant was that if one can handle the volume at that level it will produce clean distortion free sound. I like car analogies too so I will say I like to own a car that is faster than I will ever go so when I am driving 80 mph it feels like 45 mph. These days since things are so delicate and cost so much $$$$$ I take it easy. But on those occasions when it feels right I let it go to create anticipation for the next momement of insanity. I feel comfortable just knowing the power and ability is there in case its needed. Distortion free clarity always comes with the feeling of "Turn it Up." I am amazed by the way the speakers, subwoofers, and amplifiers all work together to produce such beautiful sound while not drawing any attention to the individual parts. The emotion that the system can create or inspire is truly a first for me from audio products. Simple Nirvana
Chris

WOW - never really looked...... Can't say I paid that much.... Thats messed up.... so much for my suggestion...

^^ No worries Chris, I just felt compelled make that disclaimer ...

Patrick - but I'm with ya.... thats insane....

:D

I agree Patrick but the ^^ was referring to Chris's post above your's.

Anyone in here with JTR experience ever listened to Salk before?

I'm going to be demo'ing some Salk SongTower's this weekend with a SongCenter for center channel. I know he said the mains have the dome tweeter in them.

I would just be curious if anyone in here has heard them against a T8 or T12 and how they thought they compared.

He has a 5.1 setup (the surrounds are not Salk) which is cool because movies/games is my primary concern vs music.

Great speakers, but it would take moving up to the TL2 or even higher to compare to the t12's in my opinion. Great speaker, and great for music, but for movies/games, it's not quite the right direction.

That lack of fatigue or high db shrill (for lack of a better word) is what I'm really after. I'm not going to lie, I'd love to take my system and push it to MY limit like RMK has from time to time but I enjoy most of my listening around or a little below reference. Perhaps this is because I don't feel comfortable with the sound I'm hearing above reference on most material. I think the lack of clarity and perceived muddiness from bipolar mains (BP30s) is what's really taking some of the impact away from movies. Dynamics, like JTRs can reproduce, are also something that I have yet to experience in an LCR.

I keep hearing people talk about turning up their systems louder and louder with new speakers and everything sounds just as clear and not fatiguing to listen to. I had previously assumed that this was directly attributable to the environment you were listening in (which I'm sure still has a huge impact) but the more I read, the more I think that moving to a speaker as capable as the T12 or neosis will reproduce the impact I've been looking for for years.

Has anyone on here heard a THT and had the chance to listen to JTR subs like the cap or OS? I'm curious if I'm still behind when it comes to my sub as well. I built the THT thinking I would at least have one component that could keep up with JTR mains but when I look at the specs of the OS or CapS2 I begin to drool and wonder what I'm missing in the bass department as well.

How would you say the ones I'm demo'ing would compare to the T8's?

And are you basically saying the T12's would blow the Salks that I'm going to listen to out of the park?

And I do see what you are saying about them being great for music. From my research I've done it seems that both B&W and Salk make great speakers, but that they both really shine in more of a musical environment over the HT environment. And like you said, not that they are BAD or anything for HT, just that there are better options out there.

Yes 4 of the 18's are in an IB. One of my JBL 2242H's showed up today and I'm sure the other will be along soon also. I had already bought 2 before Mark said he was going to let me play with the prototype. I'm really looking for some intense bass in the 40hz-150hz region, the 2242h's showed in my sims to outgun the UXL above 50hz and be +10dB at 60hz and higher. Thats a huge amount for a 2CF box!!!! and 600 watts I want to use them under the JTR's for the stands but I'm also gonna try the LLE in the same space and see how it sounds. I don't need any more low end, just some crushing midbass

And RMK, there are pics in this thread in a few places but I'll take all new once everything shows up and I have it all installed and working. I think I'm gonna order a minidsp with the RCA's to try out as well.

Salk are low sensitivy speakers that for the most part are full range. They excell at music and can double for HT but not excell and just were not meant to be turned up loud.
T8's and T12's are high sensitivity speakers that are designed to be crossed over to a sub. so you can accomplish alot with this design. They are 2 entirely different designs and have completely different customers or audiences. I think both Salk and JTR represent the best and are at the top of their game for their purpose designs. If I could I would have both. Decide what your goals are and room size and then go at it from there.
Ask as many direct questions as you can and the answers will be easier to give and understand.
You are on the right track
Chris

I was able to purchase new 3 T12 HT, 2 18" stands , and 2 SubM HP's for basically the same $$$$ as a pair of Sounscape 8's. To me that combination gives me oustanding HT and Music and all the power I could want. also wanted to point out that Songtowers are "Baby Salks" and if you want a comparision you need to be at least at Soundscapes.
Edited by countryWV - 12/6/12 at 3:24pm

died in the wool Salk owners will not think typically think JTR holds a candle to their speakers. Salk makes nice speakers --- I've heard several lines and enjoyed them all, but a blind test against the JTR Neosis of Catalyst 12C would be interesting indeed for the Salk owners who supposedly hated the more high efficiency pro design speakers (JTR) in the sighted meets like this one.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1324185/se-wi-tower-speaker-gtg/980_20#post_21911730
the above were my comments on the meet, but if you read pages before and after to find the comments of some of the other 2 channel guys you'll quickly realize they have their own biases -- we all do.

Here's a review that didn't like the JTR
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1324185/se-wi-tower-speaker-gtg/1120_20
and another
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1324185/se-wi-tower-speaker-gtg/900_20#post_21910248
actually there were many from that group that didn't like the JTR.... (keep in mind they didn't have subs playing with them and Jeff's speakers are NOT designed to be run full range without a sub, while the others in the contest were designed to be run full range)

The first post in this thread has a quick link to each of the reviews:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1324185/se-wi-tower-speaker-gtg/0_20

again - blind testing would have been awesome!

dlbeck! Make it happen. Aren't your Salk towers about the same price as a pair of Noesis? Setup a blind test with the IA crowd. Play lots of different music with the attendees completely blind to which model you are playing with. Use your S2 subs - crossover at 80hz? I'd love to see the results. If you can setup it up when the KC crowd can attend - I'm sure a bunch of us would like to be there. Some of the NE crowd might come up too?
Edited by Archaea - 12/6/12 at 3:58pm

Asheville has been getting alot of good shows over the past several years. I know it is a Hippie magnet for Phish.
I do not go to hippie shows because I like my music and concerts with a healthy side of Violence !!!
Chris

I just got an email from the guy who i sold my T12's to. Well it's official, he's a JTR'r for life now LOL. He's still happy with his older pro stuff but is all smiles with the new 12's. He's going full JTR setup now!