Official JTR speaker thread - Page 201

You mean you were not a memeber of the Marlboro crowd. The neighborhood church protested Ozzy in the early 80's on his "Speak of the Devil" tour same with Kiss in 78. All adults assumed hard music equalled devil worship. So it wasn't easy for me and my friends either. Since no good groups would even stay all night in any local towns my friends and I would always have to travel. Just imagine mom taking us to the Slayer show but that is how it was. Worldwide Hard Heavy music is the norm just look at The Big 4 Bulgaria. That crowd is enormous as is all Metallica shows out of country. Slayer has sold almost 50 million records worldwide and I have NEVER heard a Slayer song on the radio.
I use to take shows and crowds for granite till I got crushed at a Ministry show in 93. There were like 300 people present and when "So What" started people came out of the woodworks ascending on the pit. 300 to 3000 before the first verse started. I left there coverd in blood wearing only my Doc Martins and jorts (cut-off jean shorts). I took shows seriously after that day. Now that I have had to settle into my adult life there has been No more Pits. I have had the same friends since Jr high and when they come over all we break out to listen to was produced before 95.
Oh well at least I still have long hair but it is just to cover up my Redneck!!!
Chris

Ministry "A Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste" & "Psalm 69"
Edited by countryWV - 12/8/12 at 7:56am

I agree with you re the importance of the center channel in HT. The Triple 12 and Noesis do an excellent job as a CC speaker. What surprised me recently was how good a job the Slanted 8 did when I jury rigged the system waiting for the Noesis to arrive. With all speakers behind the screen the visual bias is removed from the equation and I was really impressed with the Slanted 8's ability to handle dialog.

That said, triple 12 or Noesis LCR's are as good (actually better) as anything I have heard for a seemless front stage sound presentation.

Sorry to interrupt the discussion on Metallurgy ...

With all this talk about art of flight.... Anyone see there's an art of flight the series on Netflix now. Pretty sweet!

I went back to make sure I read this correctly. Wow, the CD goes all the way down to 400hz? I don't know anything about speaker design and crossovers etc. but isn't that really low for a compression driver? I've read quite a few times that drivers (woofers) in general are very underrated because they play much higher frequencies than people realize. Is that not as true for the Noesis I take it?

In other words, is the high quality of CD used combined with the lower level of crossover the reason the Noesis sounds so good? Is this an innovative idea or do other speaker manufacturers do this same kind of thing?

How far down does Jeff crossover with his other speakers?

-edit- I see Jeff posts it right there on his website "horn loaded down to 400hz". The other speaker don't say.

wow, lots of questions in my post - I count 6 question marks.

Not really qualified to give you specific answers but ...

Mid-range is generally described as 300-5Khz. The Noesis CD is both a mid-range and HF driver. BMS has it as 300hz-22Khz.

The Noesis woofers handle the midbass (i.e. 400hz down to the Low Frequency crossover). The coaxial driver in the other JTR speakers handles the mid range with the center mounted CD doing HF duty. The Coaxial also acts as a wave guide for the CD.

Not sure what the specific xover points are for either the Noesis or the Coax based JTR's and honestly, other than idle curiosity, I don't care.

If a smarter person would like to comment please do ...

They are a 3 way speaker, should be 2 separate crossovers with the BMS Co-Ax and the woofs.

Pretty sure he's using either the 4593nd or the 4594nd.... Upper xover should be in the realm of 6.5-6.8k as a shot in the dark....

http://bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=neodymium_compression_drivers
Edited by Warpdrv - 12/8/12 at 12:44pm

The CD is the 4593nd as I linked above. Jeff used to have two separate circuit boards in the Coaxial speakers (one for the mid/high, one for the woofers). With the latest version of the T-12's he is using a single circuit board for all three, Here is a pic of the latest Triple 12 crossover: My guess is that the Noesis Xover is similar.



The blue/green ink on the board is from my magic marker that I used for marking the mounting hole locations ...
Edited by RMK! - 12/8/12 at 3:09pm

So I went and listened to some Salk SongTowers today and I must say that I enjoyed them quite a lot.

I was on the verge of buying B&W speakers but waited a bit and did more research which pointed me to JTR, but also to Salk. I wouldn't have known about them had someone told me.

But now that I heard the Salk SongTower, I need to also hear some JTR speakers! I would get the Salks over the B&W after hearing them.

Ugh wish I had someone local to listen to JTR speakers so I could just make my purhcase!

I'm a bit late to seeing this but your video is fantastic. So what possessed you to even try this little amp? For that matter how did you come by it? I'm pretty impressed at what it could handle. But why use this over your receiver?

That video is a good example of the fact that you need relatively little power to drive the Noesis to reference. It was a topic of some discussion on another thread.

What tread would that be? I'm interested in reading more about amps.

Thanks!

Can you attend dlbeck's speaker GTG early next year? The plan is to have the JTR's and Salk's in attendance for direct comparison. David is in IA, by the way.

Stitch1,

I certainly wasn't using the t-amp for long - I was just curious how it would do, and it did quite well for $23 bucks. It wasn't even hot to the touch.


I didn't push it any harder than that - but I think it could have gotten a bit louder. The gain knob was at 1/3ish. RCA L/R Pre-Out was at +3 IIRC. No advantage to running the T-amp over the AVR --- just done in fun, out of raw curiousity. I have some lower sensitivity bookshelfs I normally use the T-Amp with and that combo can only dream of reference.

In the intersest of moving forward it seems we need to clear things up by finding a fact we all agree on. Any JTR speaker NEEDS very little power to drive them to reference I agree and thats a fact.
If a owners goal is to drive their system to reference level on as little power as possible then of coarse JTR speakers HE designs offer a great oppertunity. almost no power will get them there.
I did not buy T12's to see how little I could "get by with" I bought them to try to "get the most" out of them. They are 2 different goals No right No wrong just different ends of the spectrum. If an owner wants to run them on an AVR or even T-amp and is satisfied with the results then that is great. It sure would make things alot easier and a whole lot less expensive all while taking up less space and even using less electricity. I have never read anything that objects to that at all.
What about the owners who are trying to get 'the absolute most " out of their system? This is were it becomes unclear to me of what your true point is and why you tied your above comment to that thread becuaes to me it seemed to be a different discussion. What do you suggest? Am I truly wasting my time , money ,and all effort by powering my system with an external amp? I understand your statement "you need relatively little power to drive the Noesis to reference" as you said that is a fact. What is the next step? For me it becomes CLARITY at reference not just SPL at reference. I have already accomplished the goal of hitting reference so now my goal is to make it sound its best at this level.
Any thoughtful suggestions you can give on how to make mine or any system sound better at reference is greatly appreciated. If there is a better way please point me in that direction.
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 12/9/12 at 6:36am

I have a slanted 8 question,when a ran my audyseey set-up the x-over that audyssey selected on my 6 slanted 8s was 60hz but slanted 8s on go down to 80hz,I changed it to 80hz has anyone had this to happen?

Those of us that are going to be at David's GTG, should we try a blind test between a receiver and a powerful amp? I have yet to read about anyone actually trying this with a blind test, cold be very interesting.... could also open a big a** can of worms!!

My Slanted 8's are near boundaries and Audyssey will usually set them to 50-60hz. I bump them to 100hz.

A blind test would be fun but if there was ever a subject people should be dispassionate about this is it. If you like using an AVR with HE speakers then fine. If you like lot's of power ... more power () to you.

I thought archaea's video was very cool but it did not make me want to sell my separates and buy an AVR or, downsize my amps ... nor would a conclusive DB study on the topic. I'm just that happy (or pig headed ).

My JRT's name is Ajax (my Avatar photo). When I met my fiance she thought I was a little OCD and called me Mr. Clean and his dog Ajax ...

Living with me has disabused her of that notion (to a degree ). That said, we are getting a new JRT puppy next weekend (I needed another mouth to feed ) and her name is Comet soo, now it's Mr. Clean and his dogs Ajax and Comet ...

Here's Comet (on the right) :


Talk about OT ...
Edited by RMK! - 12/9/12 at 9:30am

Carp - I have the Denon 4311 and just got Odyssey Kismet amps driving the LCR. Plenty of power and we can test them as needed. The 4311 is no slouch tho.

thanks rmk,mine are near room boundaries also.pretty pups!

Here are mine, Jacks were not meant to live in the suburbs! They are 11 and 10, but act like they are 2 and 3.

Here is Hetfield 11



Indiana 10 - She can dig under any fence and be gone in 30 seconds it seems, fortunately she always comes back.

Doesn't anyone ever wonder what the JTRs would sound like pushed by some nice vintage tube amp. I know I do, but I don't have one.

I've done it with 2 different tube amps. Both are my brother in laws. Dynaco ST-70 and MC275 (though not very vintage) They didn't sound much, if any different than anything else I've powered with them. I will be completely honest, I think the people that hear huge differences between amps are either doing something wrong or are delusional LOL. If it's changing the sound that much, they must have a broken amp

A blind amp comparo with HE design speakers wouldn't be worthwhile IMO. Besides, you're already doing a blind speaker test, so you'll have enough on your plate as it is. Just my $0.02

Tubes add distortion, and in many cases it is very easy to hear. To each their own, though.

Then nothing else matters. That's why I don't try to talk people out of what they claim to hear (unless they try to push it as fact); if they're happy then I say let them believe what they want to.

Sure tube amps will "usually" have more distortion than a SS amp but that doesn't man it's always audible. Unless I'm/anyone is doing a blind A/B test in the proper conditions, there is no way to tell vs anything else. You can't judge by memory. Nothing stuck out as different and if it did? I'd likely be just wanting it to in the first place.

Iowa GTG will be on Jan 5th. See here for details on the event....all kinds of JTR goodness (and others)

http://www.avsforum.com/t/871474/ia-meet/3420#post_22677212

The 4311 has plenty of power for a GTG. It wlil also drive 4,6,8 ohm speakers equally as well. Some lower model avr mabey not so much on LE speakers.
How do you go about doing a blind test with HE against LE? Would not the volume have to be limited? I guess you could do the volume level blind also. Just curious as to your plans.
Did I read you all will be using a pair of S2's. Noesis and Salks crossed over to a pair of Cap S2's sounds like a full day all by itself. I feel sorry for any other speakers that attend.
I hope your GTG does not ruin your Christmas excitement. I know I don't even like to go on vacation anymore.
Chris