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Official JTR speaker thread - Page 201

post #6001 of 18328
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1439771/amplifiers-receivers-for-use-with-the-jtr-speakers-reviews-amps-monos-separates-pro-pre
post #6002 of 18328
Thanks!
post #6003 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

So I went and listened to some Salk SongTowers today and I must say that I enjoyed them quite a lot.
I was on the verge of buying B&W speakers but waited a bit and did more research which pointed me to JTR, but also to Salk. I wouldn't have known about them had someone told me.
But now that I heard the Salk SongTower, I need to also hear some JTR speakers! I would get the Salks over the B&W after hearing them.
Ugh wish I had someone local to listen to JTR speakers so I could just make my purhcase!
Can you attend dlbeck's speaker GTG early next year? The plan is to have the JTR's and Salk's in attendance for direct comparison. David is in IA, by the way.
post #6004 of 18328
Stitch1,

I certainly wasn't using the t-amp for long - I was just curious how it would do, and it did quite well for $23 bucks. wink.gif It wasn't even hot to the touch.


I didn't push it any harder than that - but I think it could have gotten a bit louder. The gain knob was at 1/3ish. RCA L/R Pre-Out was at +3 IIRC. No advantage to running the T-amp over the AVR --- just done in fun, out of raw curiousity. I have some lower sensitivity bookshelfs I normally use the T-Amp with and that combo can only dream of reference.
post #6005 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

That video is a good example of the fact that you need relatively little power to drive the Noesis to reference. It was a topic of some discussion on another thread.
In the intersest of moving forward it seems we need to clear things up by finding a fact we all agree on. Any JTR speaker NEEDS very little power to drive them to reference I agree and thats a fact.
If a owners goal is to drive their system to reference level on as little power as possible then of coarse JTR speakers HE designs offer a great oppertunity. almost no power will get them there.
I did not buy T12's to see how little I could "get by with" I bought them to try to "get the most" out of them. They are 2 different goals No right No wrong just different ends of the spectrum. If an owner wants to run them on an AVR or even T-amp and is satisfied with the results then that is great. It sure would make things alot easier and a whole lot less expensive all while taking up less space and even using less electricity. I have never read anything that objects to that at all.
What about the owners who are trying to get 'the absolute most " out of their system? This is were it becomes unclear to me of what your true point is and why you tied your above comment to that thread becuaes to me it seemed to be a different discussion. What do you suggest? Am I truly wasting my time , money ,and all effort by powering my system with an external amp? I understand your statement "you need relatively little power to drive the Noesis to reference" as you said that is a fact. What is the next step? For me it becomes CLARITY at reference not just SPL at reference. I have already accomplished the goal of hitting reference so now my goal is to make it sound its best at this level.
Any thoughtful suggestions you can give on how to make mine or any system sound better at reference is greatly appreciated. If there is a better way please point me in that direction.
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 12/9/12 at 6:36am
post #6006 of 18328
I have a slanted 8 question,when a ran my audyseey set-up the x-over that audyssey selected on my 6 slanted 8s was 60hz but slanted 8s on go down to 80hz,I changed it to 80hz has anyone had this to happen?
post #6007 of 18328
Those of us that are going to be at David's GTG, should we try a blind test between a receiver and a powerful amp? I have yet to read about anyone actually trying this with a blind test, cold be very interesting.... could also open a big a** can of worms!! eek.gifsmile.gif
post #6008 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by dholmes54 View Post

I have a slanted 8 question,when a ran my audyseey set-up the x-over that audyssey selected on my 6 slanted 8s was 60hz but slanted 8s on go down to 80hz,I changed it to 80hz has anyone had this to happen?

My Slanted 8's are near boundaries and Audyssey will usually set them to 50-60hz. I bump them to 100hz.
post #6009 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Those of us that are going to be at David's GTG, should we try a blind test between a receiver and a powerful amp? I have yet to read about anyone actually trying this with a blind test, cold be very interesting.... could also open a big a** can of worms!! eek.gifsmile.gif

A blind test would be fun but if there was ever a subject people should be dispassionate about this is it. If you like using an AVR with HE speakers then fine. If you like lot's of power ... more power (wink.gif) to you.

I thought archaea's video was very cool but it did not make me want to sell my separates and buy an AVR or, downsize my amps ... nor would a conclusive DB study on the topic. I'm just that happy smile.gif (or pig headed tongue.gif).
post #6010 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I have a Jack Russell Terrier named Hetfield)

My JRT's name is Ajax (my Avatar photo). When I met my fiance she thought I was a little OCD and called me Mr. Clean and his dog Ajax ... tongue.gif

Living with me has disabused her of that notion (to a degree wink.gif ). That said, we are getting a new JRT puppy next weekend (I needed another mouth to feed rolleyes.gif) and her name is Comet soo, now it's Mr. Clean and his dogs Ajax and Comet ... tongue.gif

Here's Comet (on the right) cool.gif:


Talk about OT ... biggrin.gif
Edited by RMK! - 12/9/12 at 9:30am
post #6011 of 18328
Carp - I have the Denon 4311 and just got Odyssey Kismet amps driving the LCR. Plenty of power and we can test them as needed. The 4311 is no slouch tho.
post #6012 of 18328
thanks rmk,mine are near room boundaries also.pretty pups!
post #6013 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

My JRT's name is Ajax (my Avatar photo). When I met my fiance she thought I was a little OCD and called me Mr. Clean and his dog Ajax ... tongue.gif
Living with me has disabused her of that notion (to a degree wink.gif ). That said, we are getting a new JRT puppy next weekend (I needed another mouth to feed rolleyes.gif) and her name is Comet soo, now it's Mr. Clean and his dogs Ajax and Comet ... tongue.gif
Here's Comet (on the right) cool.gif:

Talk about OT ... biggrin.gif

Here are mine, Jacks were not meant to live in the suburbs! They are 11 and 10, but act like they are 2 and 3.

Here is Hetfield 11



Indiana 10 - She can dig under any fence and be gone in 30 seconds it seems, fortunately she always comes back.

post #6014 of 18328
Doesn't anyone ever wonder what the JTRs would sound like pushed by some nice vintage tube amp. I know I do, but I don't have one.
post #6015 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Doesn't anyone ever wonder what the JTRs would sound like pushed by some nice vintage tube amp. I know I do, but I don't have one.

I've done it with 2 different tube amps. Both are my brother in laws. Dynaco ST-70 and MC275 (though not very vintage) They didn't sound much, if any different than anything else I've powered with them. I will be completely honest, I think the people that hear huge differences between amps are either doing something wrong or are delusional LOL. If it's changing the sound that much, they must have a broken amp biggrin.gif
post #6016 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Those of us that are going to be at David's GTG, should we try a blind test between a receiver and a powerful amp? I have yet to read about anyone actually trying this with a blind test, cold be very interesting.... could also open a big a** can of worms!! eek.gifsmile.gif

A blind amp comparo with HE design speakers wouldn't be worthwhile IMO. Besides, you're already doing a blind speaker test, so you'll have enough on your plate as it is. Just my $0.02
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I've done it with 2 different tube amps. Both are my brother in laws. Dynaco ST-70 and MC275 (though not very vintage) They didn't sound much, if any different than anything else I've powered with them. I will be completely honest, I think the people that hear huge differences between amps are either doing something wrong or are delusional LOL. If it's changing the sound that much, they must have a broken amp biggrin.gif

Tubes add distortion, and in many cases it is very easy to hear. To each their own, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I'm just that happy smile.gif

Then nothing else matters.smile.gif That's why I don't try to talk people out of what they claim to hear (unless they try to push it as fact); if they're happy then I say let them believe what they want to.
post #6017 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Tubes add distortion, and in many cases it is very easy to hear. To each their own, though.

Sure tube amps will "usually" have more distortion than a SS amp but that doesn't man it's always audible. Unless I'm/anyone is doing a blind A/B test in the proper conditions, there is no way to tell vs anything else. You can't judge by memory. Nothing stuck out as different and if it did? I'd likely be just wanting it to in the first place.
post #6018 of 18328
Iowa GTG will be on Jan 5th. See here for details on the event....all kinds of JTR goodness (and others)

http://www.avsforum.com/t/871474/ia-meet/3420#post_22677212
post #6019 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Those of us that are going to be at David's GTG, should we try a blind test between a receiver and a powerful amp? I have yet to read about anyone actually trying this with a blind test, cold be very interesting.... could also open a big a** can of worms!! eek.gifsmile.gif
The 4311 has plenty of power for a GTG. It wlil also drive 4,6,8 ohm speakers equally as well. Some lower model avr mabey not so much on LE speakers.
How do you go about doing a blind test with HE against LE? Would not the volume have to be limited? I guess you could do the volume level blind also. Just curious as to your plans.
Did I read you all will be using a pair of S2's. Noesis and Salks crossed over to a pair of Cap S2's sounds like a full day all by itself. I feel sorry for any other speakers that attend.
I hope your GTG does not ruin your Christmas excitement. I know I don't even like to go on vacation anymore.
Chris
post #6020 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Sure tube amps will "usually" have more distortion than a SS amp but that doesn't man it's always audible. Unless I'm/anyone is doing a blind A/B test in the proper conditions, there is no way to tell vs anything else. You can't judge by memory. Nothing stuck out as different and if it did? I'd likely be just wanting it to in the first place.

It's not always audible but it usually is, so we'll agree to disagree on that one. Although, I do agree some tubes have less distortion than others.

I know a lot of people who could pass a blind test of tubes vs. SS (and already have). Distortion is very audible if you know what to listen for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

Iowa GTG will be on Jan 5th. See here for details on the event....all kinds of JTR goodness (and others)
http://www.avsforum.com/t/871474/ia-meet/3420#post_22677212

Thanks, David.
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

The 4311 has plenty of power for a GTG. It wlil also drive 4,6,8 ohm speakers equally as well. Some lower model avr mabey not so much on LE speakers.
How do you go about doing a blind test with HE against LE? Would not the volume have to be limited? I guess you could do the volume level blind also. Just curious as to your plans.
Did I read you all will be using a pair of S2's. Noesis and Salks crossed over to a pair of Cap S2's sounds like a full day all by itself. I feel sorry for any other speakers that attend.
I hope your GTG does not ruin your Christmas excitement. I know I don't even like to go on vacation anymore.
Chris

You're dead on. This won't be a simple swap and listen scenario, as each speaker will need to be re-level matched between listening sessions, and the subs will have to be re-adjusted as well. Someone could shell out 2 grand and purchase that A/B switcher from Van Alstine, which allows you to level match the speakers before starting the listen sessions, allowing you to just hit the remote swap button and you're done. Come on...only 2 thousand guys! biggrin.gif
post #6021 of 18328
Just thrown this out there because I am extremely interested in seeing how you all pull this off and what each person thinks about it. In my head,
I have been going over how to do a blind test with HE vs LE for about a year and the more I think about it The more difficult and unclear it becomes.
It seems that in order to make it difficult to distinguish between the 2 designs each speakers speciality would have to be taken out of the session or what makes each speaker shine would need to be dulled down somewhat. If each speaker is made to shine I think most will be able to tell. That is the interesting part Can you or Can't you? I am glad to see that question addressed.
No matter how you do it everyones opinions and thoughts will be appreciated by myself and alot of others. Thanks for taking the time to try as mabey one day all of the smaller GTG's will lead to one big GTG that is the fruits of the others combined.
Post as much as possible about goals, rules, and general expectations as it will be VERY INTERESTING!!!
Thanks
Chris
post #6022 of 18328
I'm sure all Salk speakers sound great and I'm pretty sure I know how the Noesis sound. I'm looking forward to the attendees impressions. Just keep it fun guys ...smile.gif
Edited by RMK! - 12/10/12 at 9:37am
post #6023 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Those of us that are going to be at David's GTG, should we try a blind test between a receiver and a powerful amp? I have yet to read about anyone actually trying this with a blind test, cold be very interesting.... could also open a big a** can of worms!! eek.gifsmile.gif

You have my vote on this for sure!!!
post #6024 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

You haven't tasted this forbidden fruit Stay Puft Man ... tongue.gifwink.gif

Haha, no, not yet good sir smile.gif I can say with utmost confidence though, should I manage to sell all this other stuff I have laying around, I should be pretty close to where I need to be for a LCR, but once again, I want to see how my DIY design fairs first...

Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

In the intersest of moving forward it seems we need to clear things up by finding a fact we all agree on. Any JTR speaker NEEDS very little power to drive them to reference I agree and thats a fact.
If a owners goal is to drive their system to reference level on as little power as possible then of coarse JTR speakers HE designs offer a great oppertunity. almost no power will get them there.
I did not buy T12's to see how little I could "get by with" I bought them to try to "get the most" out of them. They are 2 different goals No right No wrong just different ends of the spectrum. If an owner wants to run them on an AVR or even T-amp and is satisfied with the results then that is great. It sure would make things alot easier and a whole lot less expensive all while taking up less space and even using less electricity. I have never read anything that objects to that at all.
What about the owners who are trying to get 'the absolute most " out of their system? This is were it becomes unclear to me of what your true point is and why you tied your above comment to that thread becuaes to me it seemed to be a different discussion. What do you suggest? Am I truly wasting my time , money ,and all effort by powering my system with an external amp? I understand your statement "you need relatively little power to drive the Noesis to reference" as you said that is a fact. What is the next step? For me it becomes CLARITY at reference not just SPL at reference. I have already accomplished the goal of hitting reference so now my goal is to make it sound its best at this level.
Any thoughtful suggestions you can give on how to make mine or any system sound better at reference is greatly appreciated. If there is a better way please point me in that direction.
Chris

Here is one direction you could go, I just got the EQ this weekend, but I am REALLY looking forward to dialing my setup in even further smile.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1443125/using-dual-31band-eqs-for-lcr-to-give-audyssey-a-head-start

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Those of us that are going to be at David's GTG, should we try a blind test between a receiver and a powerful amp? I have yet to read about anyone actually trying this with a blind test, cold be very interesting.... could also open a big a** can of worms!! eek.gifsmile.gif

I like that idea a whole lot, and it should be obvious which is which if you run them hard enough. The switch Nu refers to would be killer, but $$$. My suggestion would be to run them both at a level where you know the distortion levels are going to be close, or not at all yet, and see what you get. Reference should be close to ok, even with the 4311, but I would say start at -10 or -15 and work your way up switching between the two until most people should start to hear the difference. Doing this test ahead of time might yield some good expectations for those that are NOT going to be blind.
post #6025 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post


I like that idea a whole lot, and it should be obvious which is which if you run them hard enough. The switch Nu refers to would be killer, but $$$. My suggestion would be to run them both at a level where you know the distortion levels are going to be close, or not at all yet, and see what you get. Reference should be close to ok, even with the 4311, but I would say start at -10 or -15 and work your way up switching between the two until most people should start to hear the difference. Doing this test ahead of time might yield some good expectations for those that are NOT going to be blind.
It will be obvious once you approach reference levels, yes. You cannot mess around with listening levels during a blind test, though, as even a change of 1 decibel can be perceived as better. People also need to relaize the JTRs will maintain their composure up to and beyond reference level, while the Salks won't; the latter isn't designed for that, hence damage may occur. If people are thinking this will be a comparison of both speakers at reference, prepare to have a very unhappy host once his drivers get destroyed or he fries the VCs on the speakers. I'd suggest playing with various volume levels after the blind test is complete. Also, don't intermix the music session and HT session; do music on each speaker then HT on each speaker. You don't want to add any more extra level matching sessions than necessary. Finally, the 4311 likely will not provide enough power for the Salks at the levels you're talking.
post #6026 of 18328
This might be silly, but regarding the gtg and set-up scenario, what if there was an attendee who happens to have the same receiver and would be willing to bring it along so that you just have to hook up each different set of speakers once and calibrate them separately, that way you could maybe do a more direct a/b comparison?
post #6027 of 18328
Would this work? Setup run through night before meet. Use Denon for blind test no eq engaged looking at ~85db level playback for music. Minidsp will be used to eq the subwoofers prior. 80hz crossover, will adjust subwoofer distance for each speaker type for best crossover integration. Use broadband signal (which would be preferred?) to set speakers for level match.

Then day of meet just need to change speakers, then set pre-known speaker levels and different subwoofer distance in receiver, should be a fairly quick swap this way right?

I think adding a third set of speakers to the blind shootout would be good so its not a 50/50 guess.

Music test separately first half of day then break, second half of day movies. The Noesis center would be horizontal, but would be a matching speaker as the Salk's would not.
post #6028 of 18328
If you guys could find someone else with a 4311, it could make life much easier. Save all the calibration settings for each set of speakers on each unit.
post #6029 of 18328
I know somebody that has one but what a pain in the rear for him. Let me check.
post #6030 of 18328
What a great guy!! He's willing to loan us the second 4311 for the event. Sweet! I guess he will be attending so will reap some benefit I hope.

David
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