Official JTR speaker thread - Page 210

Originally Posted by countryWV 

Orbit Shifter & Cap S2 have the 4000watt amp
Cap S1 & Cap ported 2400 have the 2400watt amp
The website needs a little updating I think.
Chris

Originally Posted by Frohlich 

The S2 says 2400 watt in the description but also says 4000 watt below and in the right column. I have no idea if it is the same as the orbit shifter or not. I have the S2 running off 20 amp circuit and I can see it runs smooth. No weird power fluctuations, light bulbs dimming, blowing fuses,etc...

Originally Posted by countryWV 

Orbit Shifter & Cap S2 have the 4000watt amp
Cap S1 & Cap ported 2400 have the 2400watt amp
The website needs a little updating I think.
Chris

Originally Posted by lbrown105 

I wouldn't say I know a lot about electricity but I do know a lot about running an OS and an epik empire off a 20 amp dedicated circuit. even at max output with clip lights flickering i have never triped the breaker. If it is dedicated you would be fine, if the room lights are running off the same circuit you could have problems. In my main rack I have a power conditioner that displays the volts and amp draw. If I am running just the sound with out the projector I can get the amp draw up to about 2.1 amps on 120volts and this is with my Sunfire which is running 800X5 into 4 ohms so that looks like it's drawing about 252 watts (2.1x120). That was running music with lots of content playing. Now when I turn on the projector which is running on the same circuit the amp draw is almost 4.3 amps with the volume off. I think lights and projectors draw a lot of power at a constant rate compared to an amp which is playing off peaks and valleys and also there may be capaicitance calculations involved too.
I think there are others in this forum running dual OS's, maybe they can chime in there experience too, nut I think with 20amp dedicated circuit there are no issues..

Originally Posted by RMK! 

Yes to all including the need for an update. That 4K amp is happy on a dedicated 20amp circuit. I run one of the OS's on a 15 for a while with no issues.

Originally Posted by coolgeek 

I guess you guys are right. I think the site needs some updating. Maybe one of you who's close friends with Jeff can tell him about the discrepancy. Otherwise, it's a bit confusing.
Thanks a lot on this. I was worried about the AMP. Since I am renovating my house, I need to plan out all the circuits I'll need. Otherwise, it'll be costly to redo the wiring after the renovation, plus not to mention hacking of walls, etc.
Thanks RMK...
So, does anyone know what's up with all that calculations about Watt = Volt x Ampere thingy? Probably need a real electrician here...

Originally Posted by dholmes54 

Ive always been confused about power ratings on amps,doesnt 125 watts = 1 amp so if you have a 20 amp circuit that comes to 2500 watts that the amp is capable of,plz correct me if Im wrong someone!!

Originally Posted by coolgeek 

If I am not mistaken, if you're in the US, with 110V circuits, then 1 AMP = 1x110 Volt = 110 Watt (or VA).
In my country, our electricity comes in 220 Volts. So, 1 AMP = 220 Watts.
At least I think that's how it works.

Originally Posted by lbrown105 

those calcs are correct (wattage = voltage X amperage). Just remember an amp does not draw constant levels of juice and there is also capacitance factors, and because of this stored energy is delivered when peaks call on it.

Originally Posted by SeaNile 

Just curious if you guys with JTR's and Caps are frequently tweaking your EQ setting, gain on amps, etc. What may not have helped me initially is having someone install and hook my system without any knowledge of the equipment I have. When they ran Audyssey it really toned down the system, especially the LCR Triple 12's. They also weren't too familiar with the passive Caps and the Crest amp. I'm at the point now where running it with no EQ has the fronts a bit bright and I am constantly adjusting the gain on the Crest amp for the Caps. Something tells me most or all of the settings are incorrect.
I'm leaning towards having this thing EQ'd and set up properly before making any upgrades (except for the drivers on the Caps).

Originally Posted by Iccy 

Also, some breakers allow for much greater current to flow through in short bursts. Different brands have different curves but you get the idea. That is how you get 14k watts of power from a FP Clone amp, a 30amp at 120v can peak at 120amp for very short periods of time (.1s or something).

Originally Posted by SeaNile 

I have an Onkyo PRSC 886 and when Audyssey was run it put my JTR's to -12 and the B&W DM603s rears at +2 or so. What it did to the subs I have no idea....
Where I am at now it I have turned the EQ off and just run everything flat. The front JTR's I put at -2.5 and the rears at +2.5. The subs are at +9 on the speaker setup menu on the Onkyo but the gain adjustment on the Crest CC4000 is set to -10 which puts the dial at around 10pm.
I have no doubt my components should add up to a kick ass system but something tells me the setup, lack of Audyssey (which really toned everything down too much for me) and the constant adjustment of the gain on the sub amps have things pretty screwed up. Sure it can get loud but I know it can sound sooooo much better.
Guess my plug and play style has caught up to me and it not helping these components shine.

Originally Posted by RMK! 

Jedi gave some good advice. Minus 12 is the max cut on the Onkyo. If your amp has gain control turn it down for the T12's. If not, then you might want to consider some 10db attenuators for the T12's.
There is no way the Caps should be at +9. Do you have an SPL meter? If so, use it to level match all the speakers and subs to 75db. Jedi's suggestion of setting the sub level to 0 on the Onkyo and then use the gain on the Crest to adjust the sub levels to 75db was a good one.

Originally Posted by Jedirun 

I know what you are saying. I don't know if there are many brands out there with this kind of devoted following.
Being an owner myself, I understand. With an otherwise modest system, I have sound better than most movie theaters in my home. All because of a company that I never would have heard of other than on this forum.
I just watched The Dark Knight Rises. The way the speakers make it so visceral without sounding loud is amazing. Much better than my experience in the theater.

Originally Posted by SeaNile 

Thanks for the info. I have an Emotiva XPA-5 running the speakers and the Crest CC4000 running the 2 Caps. No fancy wiring, no bridging, etc.
I should have looked for help from an AVSer than this company that hook all this stuff up. They were great with getting the IR remote to work but all my other components don't seem to be performing as well as they should be. As you can tell from my frequency on this board, my interest comes and goes. It comes when I want to watch something and it immediately goes when I realize this isn't as good as it should be.
Figured it would be a good idea to try and do a reset with everything before going out and buying new drivers for the Caps and the Neosis only to find that I will plug them in with the current setting and not be thrilled.
I've got no equipment, no SPL meter and probably lost the mic that came with the Onkyo. Looks like I will be reaching out to some lucky local AVS guy for some help.

Originally Posted by SeaNile 

OK, making slight progress here. Took the sub setting within the Onkyo level calibration to 0 and the JTR's to -3.5 with the rear at +2.5. To my naked ear the sub disappeared and put the Crest amp from 10 o'clock to 2pm on the dial and the subs sound better. The JTR's are set to 70hz on the crossover setting and the sub at 80 thx setting. What I notice now, is a more balanced and reserved sound from the system but the highs are REALLY high. My concert going ears actually had to decrease the volume during the guitar solos on the dvd as they were just too loud and piercing...never had to do that before with this setup.
I also think the subs could deliver more punch. I know the new drivers will help...

Originally Posted by Jedirun 

If I read right the XPA-5 does not have gain settings, so you need the attenuators. They are available at parts express. I also have an extra mic Onkyo Audyssey mic lying around if you need it assuming the 885 and 886 use the same model. I thought I lost mine in a move, but found it the same day the new one I ordered came in. A RadioShack sound level meter will do fine setting the levels pre-Audyssey. I am sure there are better ones around, but the RadioShack one is very inexpensive and will do the trick.

Originally Posted by SeaNile 


So this is another area where I get lost. Here I am thinking I want more, more SPL, more hard hitting bass and certainly more power from my amps and now an attenuator may help my stereo? Sometimes it's just easier to let a professional have at it but last time I did that I was unhappy with the sound and just went to EQ off in the settings. At this point I just might to get Jeff out here some how and let him work his magic.

Originally Posted by dholmes54 

Carp I hope your little girl is ok,she a beautiful little girl & its bad that she broke her arm at xmas time, one good thing she didnt have to have surgery! I know how she feels Ive fx 16 bones in my life.Your HT is GREAT!!!! im jealous!!!

Originally Posted by carp 


Thanks dholmes. You must be some kind of adrenaline junkie to have had that many fractures!!

Hey guys, is there anything I can do about the fact that reference is above 0 on my receiver? Using the Disney WOW disk (which I've been told is accurate) test tones I'm below 0 on the master volume with the individual LCR speakers at -12, or as low as they will go. Not a huge deal, but I want 0 to mean reference.

I understand that the attenuators go in between the pre amp or receiver and the amp. Well, I don't use an amp just a Pioneer Elite receiver so that won't work.

Originally Posted by carp 

Thanks dholmes. You must be some kind of adrenaline junkie to have had that many fractures!!
Hey guys, is there anything I can do about the fact that reference is above 0 on my receiver? Using the Disney WOW disk (which I've been told is accurate) test tones I'm below 0 on the master volume with the individual LCR speakers at -12, or as low as they will go. Not a huge deal, but I want 0 to mean reference.
I understand that the attenuators go in between the pre amp or receiver and the amp. Well, I don't use an amp just a Pioneer Elite receiver so that won't work.

Originally Posted by SeaNile 

Just curious if you guys with JTR's and Caps are frequently tweaking your EQ setting, gain on amps, etc. What may not have helped me initially is having someone install and hook my system without any knowledge of the equipment I have. When they ran Audyssey it really toned down the system, especially the LCR Triple 12's. They also weren't too familiar with the passive Caps and the Crest amp. I'm at the point now where running it with no EQ has the fronts a bit bright and I am constantly adjusting the gain on the Crest amp for the Caps. Something tells me most or all of the settings are incorrect.
I'm leaning towards having this thing EQ'd and set up properly before making any upgrades (except for the drivers on the Caps).

Originally Posted by Jedirun 

After reading a lot on this thread and others, I set all the levels on my mains and subs to 0 on my SSP, then using the gains on my amps set the levels at my main listening position to 75 db. Once that was accomplished, I ran Audyssey again and was much happier with the results. I have the older version in the Onkyo PR-SC885. I am sure your multiple subs makes things a little more difficult unless you have the XT32 version of Audyssey, but that may be a cheap fix to your problem. The problem seems to be that high efficiency speakers like your T12's end up being set to the maximum -12 by Audyssey and Audyssey can't properly apply it's eq settings. If your amps don't have gain settings people have bought attenuators to solve the problem.

Originally Posted by Frohlich 

Anybody on the JTR forum, if you guys are in the market for a Projector, I recommend looking at the Sony HW50. Just like I sing the praises of JTR ever since I go them, the Sony HW50 is just as impressive for the picture side of things. Lots of glowing reviews in industry publications and I can vouch for it. Very impressive for the money.

Originally Posted by carp 

I'm playing with the Omnimic today, the plan was to measure the Submersives in all different configurations but I'm already side tracked. This has me scratching my head.
Here is a measurement of the Noesis full range from my main LP. The black line is when my receiver is set to "pure direct" and the blue line is when my receiver is on normal stereo, mains set to large no sub. What the hell, shouldn't the response be the same?

So, I decided to try a measurement up close. This is with the mic a couple of feet away from the right speaker. Same thing, black line is pure direct and blue line is normal stereo. Now they match up... makes no sense to me. I understand why the frequency response will be totally different back at my LP, but why the difference between pure direct and normal stereo full range with no subs when measuring from the LP, and then up close that difference is gone??

Both graphs are 1/12 smoothing. Man, the Noesis line is really smooth, much smoother with the up close measurement than my eD's or Magnepans were when Luke kamp had his omnimic over here.
The speakers were left in their places close to the corners, I'm guessing that's why there is a bump between 100 and 200 hz.
Every speaker I've measured in here has had that drop off between 10khz and 20khz, the Magnepans and eD's dropped off sharper than this however.
Ok, back to playing until the wife gets home.