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Official JTR speaker thread - Page 213

post #6361 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Two things, unless you are running shelf filter on the dayton, it won't quite best the SubM below 20hz or so. above that, depending on what you are using to power that box, you should be impressed, especially
The "feeling" of the ported is easily achievable with a properly EQ/LT'd sealed system. I will report back when I finish all four of my dual 18 boxes biggrin.gif

I agree. With proper power and EQ I would expect the Dual opposed 18 setup to be not too far behind based on what I've heard. tongue.gif With enough power adding some boost/trims on the low end really makes a big difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I'll know more after this weekend. A friend and avs member mr smithers is bringing over his brand new DIY dual opposed sub with 2 of those new 18" Dayton drivers - the same sub Gorilla built (well, Gorilla built 4 of them).
We are going to compare to a Submersive, this should be interesting. I have a feeling the Dayton will have more output based on Gorilla's impressions. I could add a couple of these on the cheap compared to adding Submersives. We'll see... looking forward to it. My wife is such a good sport, another night with a house full of dudes and the walls caving in. biggrin.gif

I'm looking forward to see what you guys think. Did Mr. Smithers get all the bugs sorted out with his?
post #6362 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Update on my system. A HUGE thank you to Gorilla83 (Andrew) for coming over this am and spending a few hours tinkering with things. What he found was a few loose connections on the speakon connectors, an air leak on the one Cap (stripped screw) and the settings within the Onkyo menu were all screwed up. What I have now is a much, much better sounding system.
If I remember correctly after Audyssey was run the Triple 12LF's (LCR) are running -7, -6.5, -7 with the rears (B&W DM603s) at about +2. The Caps are now at +2.5. All speakers are crossed over at 80hz.
Sounds much fuller and complete. No huge gaps in the sound, the surround sound is much more complete and with the Caps and Crest amp set properly they sound good for the first time ever. Who knew an air leak on the one Cap would make such a huge difference?
I'm pretty happy now with the sound. I do notice the one Cap passive radiator is more active than the other.
Looking into the future I still want to improve the "punch" and bass of the sound. The hi's are certainly there but I want that feeling of sitting front row at a concert.
Damn this forum, it always has me thinking of the next upgrade.

You're welcome John, it was great to get your setup tweaked a bit so you can start enjoying it again. wink.gif Did you get a chance to fix the leak on the one sub?
post #6363 of 18544
Got it fixed up till the new drivers are ordered! The crown bolt tee nut was not seated within the wood and the threads wouldn't screw in so I put a #10 1 1/2" wood screw into it on a slight angle. Got plenty of bite and it as tight as hell. Still makes a little odd noise, like in Hotel California Hell Freezes Over....on the bass. I think the passive radiator might be a little tired and need to be replaced, or just buy new drivers like I plan on doing. It's addicting, as good as it sounds I think it needs more mid and more bass. Now I know why you have so many subs.
post #6364 of 18544
So I got around tonight to hooking up my front 5 (LCR + 2 Caps) and ran Audyssey.

I gotta say by default I am somewhat disappointed with the sound. Now don't get me wrong, it sounds good, however I don't know why the hell the subs are not hitting at all. And by being disappointed I just mean that my settings are totally messed up and just need to be calibrated to start sounding awesome.

I'll be the first to admit that I know jack about manually changing settings.

My receiver is a Denon 4311ci which supposedly has the best Audyssey that you can get (or close to it). I got it working with the dual subs too so that's good.

I have an EP4000 as my amp that drives the subs.

I just remember when I was demo'ing them when I purchased them, he clipped them EASILY when pushing them. I'm not getting EVEN CLOSE to that. Like I can barely feel the subs at all. In fact I had to take the grills off and put my hand on it to even make sure they were working. They were vibrating, just not much. I turned the knob on the EP4000 all the way up for both channels, and still, it is just barely hitting.

So I know that it is just my settings, especially because Gorilla83 showed me these subs with the same amp AND the same receiver.

I also haven't messed with any crossover settings, and to be quite honest I'm not even 100% sure what to even change them to. The menu in this receiver is so deep and I'm such a noob that I'm struggling with even trying to mess with the settings. I also heard that it's best to set the LCR speakers to "small" if you use a sub, so that the bass will hit from the sub.

Like I don't even know what to set the LFE setting to. I turned up my bass to +15db in the Denon receiver settings. Then there was a "Dolby Digital" option that was off by default. Just so many options that I don't know wtf they even mean or what I should set them to.

So can anyone give me some pointers on what types of settings to change so that I can get this thing cranking and sounding as good as it possibly can?
post #6365 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

So I got around tonight to hooking up my front 5 (LCR + 2 Caps) and ran Audyssey.
I gotta say by default I am somewhat disappointed with the sound. Now don't get me wrong, it sounds good, however I don't know why the hell the subs are not hitting at all. And by being disappointed I just mean that my settings are totally messed up and just need to be calibrated to start sounding awesome.
I'll be the first to admit that I know jack about manually changing settings.
My receiver is a Denon 4311ci which supposedly has the best Audyssey that you can get (or close to it). I got it working with the dual subs too so that's good.
I have an EP4000 as my amp that drives the subs.
I just remember when I was demo'ing them when I purchased them, he clipped them EASILY when pushing them. I'm not getting EVEN CLOSE to that. Like I can barely feel the subs at all. In fact I had to take the grills off and put my hand on it to even make sure they were working. They were vibrating, just not much. I turned the knob on the EP4000 all the way up for both channels, and still, it is just barely hitting.
So I know that it is just my settings, especially because Gorilla83 showed me these subs with the same amp AND the same receiver.
I also haven't messed with any crossover settings, and to be quite honest I'm not even 100% sure what to even change them to. The menu in this receiver is so deep and I'm such a noob that I'm struggling with even trying to mess with the settings. I also heard that it's best to set the LCR speakers to "small" if you use a sub, so that the bass will hit from the sub.
Like I don't even know what to set the LFE setting to. I turned up my bass to +15db in the Denon receiver settings. Then there was a "Dolby Digital" option that was off by default. Just so many options that I don't know wtf they even mean or what I should set them to.
So can anyone give me some pointers on what types of settings to change so that I can get this thing cranking and sounding as good as it possibly can?

It's been fun watching you upgrade your video and no audio gear. Do yourself a favor and spend a small amount more for omnimic or a calibrated mic and REW. It will give you the information that you and others here can use to make educated decisions. With two Caps, there is no way you should be disappointed with the bass.
post #6366 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by btinindy View Post

It's been fun watching you upgrade your video and no audio gear. Do yourself a favor and spend a small amount more for omnimic or a calibrated mic and REW. It will give you the information that you and others here can use to make educated decisions. With two Caps, there is no way you should be disappointed with the bass.

Oh I know, I demo'd them before I purchased them so I know they are fine. It's definitely just some sort of settings though. I'm going to check some stuff that Gorilla83 just suggested and will report back.
post #6367 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

So I got around tonight to hooking up my front 5 (LCR + 2 Caps) and ran Audyssey.

I gotta say by default I am somewhat disappointed with the sound. Now don't get me wrong, it sounds good, however I don't know why the hell the subs are not hitting at all. And by being disappointed I just mean that my settings are totally messed up and just need to be calibrated to start sounding awesome.

I'll be the first to admit that I know jack about manually changing settings.

My receiver is a Denon 4311ci which supposedly has the best Audyssey that you can get (or close to it). I got it working with the dual subs too so that's good.

I have an EP4000 as my amp that drives the subs.

I just remember when I was demo'ing them when I purchased them, he clipped them EASILY when pushing them. I'm not getting EVEN CLOSE to that. Like I can barely feel the subs at all. In fact I had to take the grills off and put my hand on it to even make sure they were working. They were vibrating, just not much. I turned the knob on the EP4000 all the way up for both channels, and still, it is just barely hitting.

So I know that it is just my settings, especially because Gorilla83 showed me these subs with the same amp AND the same receiver.

I also haven't messed with any crossover settings, and to be quite honest I'm not even 100% sure what to even change them to. The menu in this receiver is so deep and I'm such a noob that I'm struggling with even trying to mess with the settings. I also heard that it's best to set the LCR speakers to "small" if you use a sub, so that the bass will hit from the sub.

Like I don't even know what to set the LFE setting to. I turned up my bass to +15db in the Denon receiver settings. Then there was a "Dolby Digital" option that was off by default. Just so many options that I don't know wtf they even mean or what I should set them to.

So can anyone give me some pointers on what types of settings to change so that I can get this thing cranking and sounding as good as it possibly can?

That denon receiver calibrates JTR sub spl levels incredibly poorly. I had the same issue at bluesprings1 house last spring. He had a near identical setup to yours. (three triple eights, dual JTR ported Caps, EP4000, Denon 4311) Audyssey calibrated the subs to basically be off - they were below flat. Horrible. The guy was completely underwhelmed. We turned up the gain attenuators to max and bumped up the AVR LFE output and he loved it! Crank that EP4000 up to max -- both gain attenuators - max them out. Adjust LFE (subwoofer) level to taste on the AVR. Screw Audyssey's subwoofer calibrated levels - they wouldn't make my grandma happy. you can't hurt those two subs on a single EP4000 - you'll burn the amp out first ---ask me how I know. I burnt up one of my EP4000 amps playing it at max volume with one of the silent fan mods.

Omnimic is a must. Don't buy ~7k of gear and skimp out on a $300 peice of equipment that can help you make the most of it. Even just toeing in the speakers or subs or moving them a foot or two in one direction or the other can give you a better flat graphing baseline from which to start eq'ing.

some of the bluesprings1 tale -- see how much better frequency resopnse got just by moving things around a bit.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1186832/jtr-captivator/3700_20#post_22204915
and
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1397851/captivators-and-submersive-comparison-in-my-room/240_20#post_22196014

After a couple hours of play time and some optimization Chris (bluesprings1) went from feeling underwhelmed to ecstactically saying he'd never heard better!
Edited by Archaea - 12/26/12 at 8:29pm
post #6368 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

Oh I know, I demo'd them before I purchased them so I know they are fine. It's definitely just some sort of settings though. I'm going to check some stuff that Gorilla83 just suggested and will report back.
As others have said, it must be the settings. I have the JTR s2 sub and the first day I turned it on the sub volume was at 50 percent and I thought the roof was going to shake off. The wife said the glasses in the kitchen were rattling...like that is a bad thing :-)
post #6369 of 18544
Okay so I figured out the issue. Pretty obvious issue too hah.

I simply found the "channel level" setting in the menus and took a look at them.

Well the subs were set to -8.5db or something. So I cranked them up to +6.5 and that was pretty much too loud and the amp clipped too often so I turned it down to around +3 and +4 around those settings which seemed like a good balance.

And holy **** it sounds amazing! The only problem is that now that it is clipping (and I'm assuming when it clips and I hear the un-clean bass that the clipping is the reason for it) that I want to get a more powerful amp! If I got a more powerful amp and it did not clip, the sub would continue to sound clean above where it is clipping now and sounding distorted, right? LOL I've used this amp for about 10 minutes and already want to upgrade.

But other than that ... wow it sounds AMAZING. I was watching a few clips from the Reference Bass disc and wow ... sounded REALLY good. I am going to try and fine tune some settings as well as far as levels of the other speakers are. Right now the LR are set to -12db and I set the center to -10db (was at -12 by audyssey). I just like my voices to be in your face so I turned it up. I also have the crossover set at 80Hz I think. Again I don't know much about crossovers and where the best values to set them are at, so it's just trial and error for me.

But now I have to get my surrounds! Only have 3 up front and it sounds amazing already. Can't believe it actually sounds like a movie theater if not better in my house. Now I have to worry about **** falling off the wall upstairs - stuff is rattling already on the dining room table lol.
post #6370 of 18544
Archaea so should I keep the knobs on the EP4000 all the way up, then mess with the settings on the receiver to find the right balance? Or should it be a mixture of both?

And yes I will definitely get Omnimic at some point now that I am this deep into this hobby!
post #6371 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Update on my system. A HUGE thank you to Gorilla83 (Andrew) for coming over this am and spending a few hours tinkering with things. What he found was a few loose connections on the speakon connectors, an air leak on the one Cap (stripped screw) and the settings within the Onkyo menu were all screwed up. What I have now is a much, much better sounding system.

If I remember correctly after Audyssey was run the Triple 12LF's (LCR) are running -7, -6.5, -7 with the rears (B&W DM603s) at about +2. The Caps are now at +2.5. All speakers are crossed over at 80hz.

Sounds much fuller and complete. No huge gaps in the sound, the surround sound is much more complete and with the Caps and Crest amp set properly they sound good for the first time ever. Who knew an air leak on the one Cap would make such a huge difference?

I'm pretty happy now with the sound. I do notice the one Cap passive radiator is more active than the other.

Looking into the future I still want to improve the "punch" and bass of the sound. The hi's are certainly there but I want that feeling of sitting front row at a concert.

Damn this forum, it always has me thinking of the next upgrade.

Awesome, I am glad you have gotten your system dialed in.
post #6372 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

Archaea so should I keep the knobs on the EP4000 all the way up, then mess with the settings on the receiver to find the right balance? Or should it be a mixture of both?

And yes I will definitely get Omnimic at some point now that I am this deep into this hobby!

The EP4000 knobs (gain attenuators) should be all the way up.

Your dip switches on the back of the EP4000 should be set so that your clip limiters are on. When the clip limiters are engaged the amp should no longer really make bad noises on the subs when the clip lights start to blink, it'll just stop getting louder.

How do you have the EP4000 wired? Bridged 4ohm, or stereo 2ohm?


The EP4000 amp will not take the Captivator subs to their physical limits - but it's a good starter amp. If you want to take the caps to the limits then something like the Cerwin Vega CV-5000 is in order. Or a Crown XLS-5000, or something with ~2500 watts per channel program power (not peak -- behringer quotes peak power not program power) is about sufficient when playing heavy 20hz movie material to take the caps to their limits. You can buy a CV-5000 amp for about $700 on guitarcenter right now. Gorilla83 said he got 5-7dB more clean sound out of his cap pair with his XLS-5000 over his ep4000. My experience was similar, although I didn't measure it using a ratshack meter on the crown to get you an exact number - I can take the subs to levels that drive me from the room on my crown, where the EP4000 was awesome, but like you I found I wanted a wee bit more, if nothing else besides the fact I knew the drivers were capable of it.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Cerwin-Vega-CV-5000-High-Performance-Professional-Power-Amplifier-H69833-i1688723.gc

using coupon code HLDYWK.
post #6373 of 18544
Cool man thanks for the information. I'm going to check out the dip switches tonight when I get home. I was watching some clips from Dark Knight last night and damn it's awesome. The opening bank robbery scene was freaking sweet. When the one teller is shooting the shotgun I felt like he was shooting at me... exactly what I wanted in my system!

I'm definitely going to at least wait a bit before I go out and get another amp though, I definitely want to see how this works out once I have all of the settings set correctly and what not. I guess it was just a knee jerk reaction tongue.gif

Oh and it's configured for stereo 2ohm.
post #6374 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

I have been considering that and I just do not think they will level match and play well together.
What do others on here think? I would love to be wrong on this !!!
Chris

I don't like that idea. mainly because the two sub's passbands are different. It is never easy mixing a ported sub with a sealed sub. It can work, but it takes an exterior DSP to adjust each sub's phase/delay, and the XO values are always really wierd. I have been doing this for the past 6 months or so and I had pretty much gotten thoroughly exhausted trying to find the sweet spot when I finally got to a good point that I was happy with. This task is not for the faint of heart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

Cool man thanks for the information. I'm going to check out the dip switches tonight when I get home. I was watching some clips from Dark Knight last night and damn it's awesome. The opening bank robbery scene was freaking sweet. When the one teller is shooting the shotgun I felt like he was shooting at me... exactly what I wanted in my system!
I'm definitely going to at least wait a bit before I go out and get another amp though, I definitely want to see how this works out once I have all of the settings set correctly and what not. I guess it was just a knee jerk reaction tongue.gif
Oh and it's configured for stereo 2ohm.

make sure those LCR speakers are set to small
Make sure your LFE setting is ALWAYS at 120hz
--I like it also LFE+MAIN but that is personal taste
play with your L/R XO points to see what sounds best to you, it may not be 80hz
Go get the RadioShack meter for $40 AT LEAST to make sure your speakers are level matched
If Audyssey is setting your LCR's to -12, you need some of these:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=266-244
--Audyssey might not be able to EQ your mains properly when cutting them all the way to the maximum of -12dB but hey, if you are happy, leave that for later.

Other settings, make sure and Audyssey got the distance to each speaker correct, measure with a measuring tape to confirm, adjust if necessary.

All the above settings can be found in the Manual Setup sub menu. Also, sometimes if you adjust settings, those settings will not mirror over to your 2ch stereo/direct settings so you may need to re-enter them there after you adjust in the regular speaker setup menu. Do all this and your settings should be good to go. Oh, also, make sure that dynamic volume is off, because it is crap.
post #6375 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

make sure those LCR speakers are set to small
Make sure your LFE setting is ALWAYS at 120hz
--I like it also LFE+MAIN but that is personal taste
play with your L/R XO points to see what sounds best to you, it may not be 80hz
Go get the RadioShack meter for $40 AT LEAST to make sure your speakers are level matched
If Audyssey is setting your LCR's to -12, you need some of these:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=266-244
--Audyssey might not be able to EQ your mains properly when cutting them all the way to the maximum of -12dB but hey, if you are happy, leave that for later.
Other settings, make sure and Audyssey got the distance to each speaker correct, measure with a measuring tape to confirm, adjust if necessary.
All the above settings can be found in the Manual Setup sub menu. Also, sometimes if you adjust settings, those settings will not mirror over to your 2ch stereo/direct settings so you may need to re-enter them there after you adjust in the regular speaker setup menu. Do all this and your settings should be good to go. Oh, also, make sure that dynamic volume is off, because it is crap.

Thanks for the input, I have some stuff to mess around with when I get home tonight that is for sure.

I'm positive my speakers are set to small for the fronts. Not sure what the LFE is set to. I will definitely continue to mess with the crossover value as well. Do you have any specific scenes that you recommended to test against, that would be a good comparison between different settings?

As far as those parts from parts-express, what exactly are those for? It definitely did set the LCR to -12db though after doing calibration. Do those parts just run in-line for the speakers? So I would need 3 sets?
post #6376 of 18544
Many guys on the forum have used those for JTR speakers now. You would only need 3 total, so buy two pairs. they go in line between your AVR and your external amp if you are using one, if you are using the 4311 to power the front stage, then forget that suggestion, there is no way to use them. Basically what they do is drop the signal down going into the amp so Audyssey wont have to cut the speakers all the way down to -12dB which is the max it can cut them. The problem that happens here is Audyssey runs out of room to turn your speakers down enough to make them blend right with all the other speakers. At this point if it also needs to cut certain frequencies to make the speaker's response smooth, it has no more space to do so. This option is not a do-or-die for your system, it is just a good option to pursue, perhaps down the road when you get an external amp to power those 12's biggrin.gif
post #6377 of 18544
Whoa, double post
post #6378 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

Thanks for the input, I have some stuff to mess around with when I get home tonight that is for sure.
I'm positive my speakers are set to small for the fronts. Not sure what the LFE is set to. I will definitely continue to mess with the crossover value as well. Do you have any specific scenes that you recommended to test against, that would be a good comparison between different settings?
As far as those parts from parts-express, what exactly are those for? It definitely did set the LCR to -12db though after doing calibration. Do those parts just run in-line for the speakers? So I would need 3 sets?

i dont think you need those attenuators

what you need is a nice spl meter, and manually level match the speakers. if audyssey is setting them for -12dB, then chances are they might need more adjustment but the receiver can only do -12dB. I level matched everything at 80dB or something instead of the 75dB that audyssey did them at. I too had some speakers that went to -12dB with audyssey, but that was mainly because thats the limit that you can adjust them in the receiver.
post #6379 of 18544
Purbeast
If the AVR is setting your channel level to -12 try moving the Audyssey mic behind the LP or even further. Since you are running only the front 3 it should work fine.
Keep your crossover set at 80hz.
Turn off Dynamic volume. IMO dynamic volume SUCKS.
I have a 4311 and it only took me 8 months to figure out all the settings and what they actually do.eek.gif All the important settings are in the manual part of the guide (dark blue). Change speaker impedence to 4ohm.
If you have any questions just keep asking. smile.gif
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 12/28/12 at 6:12am
post #6380 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I don't like that idea. mainly because the two sub's passbands are different. It is never easy mixing a ported sub with a sealed sub. It can work, but it takes an exterior DSP to adjust each sub's phase/delay, and the XO values are always really wierd. I have been doing this for the past 6 months or so and I had pretty much gotten thoroughly exhausted trying to find the sweet spot when I finally got to a good point that I was happy with. This task is not for the faint of heart.
Thanks for the confirmation. I am always low on patience and seeing the words 'thoroughly exhausted" used helps me to erase that idea.
I am looking forward to the SubM XL. Should work Excellent with the HP's.
Thanks
Chris
post #6381 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Purbeast
If the AVR is setting your channel level to -12 try moving the Audyssey mic behind the LP or even further. Since you are running only the front 3 it should work fine.
Keep your crossover set at 80hz.
Turn off Dynamic EQ and make sure that dynamic volume is not set to evening mode. IMO dynamic EQ and volume SUCK.
I have a 4311 and it only took me 8 months to figure out all the settings and what they actually do.eek.gif All the important settings are in the manual part of the guide (dark blue). Change speaker impedence to 4ohm.
If you have any questions just keep asking. smile.gif
Chris

Although I haven't done extensive A/Bing, I kinda like Dynamic EQ but I agree regarding Dynamic Volume (or Dolby Volume for that matter). smile.gif
post #6382 of 18544
It can be frustrating trying to use a typical processor to get the proper setting for the JTR stuff. I struggled with it for a while and thanks to someone who knew more about this stuff it's pretty dialed in now and rocks.

Having the mains at -12 is exactly how it started with mine. After a proper setup they are now at -6.5 and the sub at +2.

You will love the JTR setup once it's dialed in.
post #6383 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

It can be frustrating trying to use a typical processor to get the proper setting for the JTR stuff. I struggled with it for a while and thanks to someone who knew more about this stuff it's pretty dialed in now and rocks.
Having the mains at -12 is exactly how it started with mine. After a proper setup they are now at -6.5 and the sub at +2.
You will love the JTR setup once it's dialed in.

I already love it and it's not dialed in lol!

Going to mess around with settings tonight a bit though.
post #6384 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Although I haven't done extensive A/Bing, I kinda like Dynamic EQ but I agree regarding Dynamic Volume (or Dolby Volume for that matter). smile.gif

mess with the reference volume setting for Dyn Eq to get it to your liking biggrin.gif
post #6385 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Although I haven't done extensive A/Bing, I kinda like Dynamic EQ but I agree regarding Dynamic Volume (or Dolby Volume for that matter). smile.gif
I would love to make Dynamic EQ work. It really reads like its the sh-t and at low volumes like -40 it works great. At high volumes like -15 to reference it seems to nueter the surrounds.
Do most people use Dynamic EQ? If so any tips or is it just a turn it on and leave it alone setting?
Thanks
Chris

PokeKevin I have never tried the reference voume settting but I will check into that.
Edited by countryWV - 12/27/12 at 11:52am
post #6386 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

i dont think you need those attenuators
what you need is a nice spl meter, and manually level match the speakers. if audyssey is setting them for -12dB, then chances are they might need more adjustment but the receiver can only do -12dB. I level matched everything at 80dB or something instead of the 75dB that audyssey did them at. I too had some speakers that went to -12dB with audyssey, but that was mainly because thats the limit that you can adjust them in the receiver.

The main issue here though is if the overall passband has to be dropped to -12 on his speakers, but then audyssey wants to apply a 5dB cut to peak, it has run out of additional room to do so. I don't know, but at least in my experience, the speakers seemed to do much better when they weren't at -12 post audyssey eq. With that said, I still went in and raised them to 75dB at the LP which usually meant at that point they were only -8dB on the speaker trim, but even then, Audyssey wouldn't have realized that it now had the room to make the cut, so it just seemed it didn't eq as well overall as when I level matched with the amp gain before I ran audyssey smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

It can be frustrating trying to use a typical processor to get the proper setting for the JTR stuff. I struggled with it for a while and thanks to someone who knew more about this stuff it's pretty dialed in now and rocks.
Having the mains at -12 is exactly how it started with mine. After a proper setup they are now at -6.5 and the sub at +2.
You will love the JTR setup once it's dialed in.

What did you do to accomplish this? adjust amp gain? Toe-in? move the speakers or the LP further distance away? There are many options to achieve the end-result you have, just interested in what you did to get there as it might help otherbeast out tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

I would love to make Dynamic EQ work. It really reads like its the sh-t and at low volumes like -40 it works great. At high volumes like -15 to reference it seems to nueter the surrounds.
Do most people use Dynamic EQ? If so any tips or is it just a turn it on and leave it alone setting?
Thanks
Chris
PokeKevin I have never tried the reference voume settting but I will check into that.

I use it sometimes, I really do like it for lower level listening as it does exactly as it is advertised, overexaggerates the surrounds and sub channels to compensate for lower listening volumes. The problem is your ear gets used to that and likes it, and as you turn the volume up, the closer to reference you get, the less pronounced the effect is as DynEQ is slowly dialing back the amount of boost it gives the surround and bass channels. This leads to the exact issue you alluded to that it "Neuters" the surrounds closer to the reference. Actually, what you are hearing is the surrounds coming more "in-line" with the mains, and it sounds weird since you are used to them being more pronounced. A good medium? Bump the surrounds 3dB over your mains, then you should have the same effect even at reference.
post #6387 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

I would love to make Dynamic EQ work. It really reads like its the sh-t and at low volumes like -40 it works great. At high volumes like -15 to reference it seems to nueter the surrounds.
Do most people use Dynamic EQ? If so any tips or is it just a turn it on and leave it alone setting?
Thanks
Chris
PokeKevin I have never tried the reference voume settting but I will check into that.

Not disputing what Beast said but this is from Chris at Audyeesy re Dynamic EQ:
Quote:
Movies are mixed in rooms calibrated for film reference. To achieve the same reference level in a home theater system each speaker level must be adjusted so that –30 dBFS band-limited (500 Hz – 2000 Hz) pink noise produces 75 dB sound pressure level at the listening position. A home theater system automatically calibrated by Audyssey MultEQ will play at reference level when the master volume control is set to the 0 dB position. At that level you can hear the mix at the same level the mixers heard it.

Audyssey Dynamic EQ is referenced to the standard film mix level. It makes adjustments to maintain the reference response and surround envelopment when the volume is turned down from 0 dB. However, film reference level is not always used in music or other non-film content. The Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset provides three offsets from the film level reference (5 dB, 10 dB, and 15 dB) that can be selected when the mix level of the content is not within the standard.

0 dB (Film Ref): This is the default setting and should be used when listening to movies.

15 dB: Select this setting for pop/rock music or other program material that is mixed at very high listening levels and has a compressed dynamic range.

10 dB: Select this setting for jazz or other music that has a wider dynamic range. This setting should also be selected for TV content as that is usually mixed at 10 dB below film reference.

5 dB: Select this setting for content that has a very wide dynamic range, such as classical music.
post #6388 of 18544
I understand what audyssey is trying to do but that reference RMK quoted is somewhat wrong, I don't care what audyssey says. Having done lots of audyssey pro installs, I've noticed that only about a bit more than half of the installs resulted in reference being 0 on the AVR. Pretty much any HE install resulted in it not being 0.
Lots of people with HE speakers will have the same deal. Audyssey can only cut so much, My system at it's current levels are at reference at +70 or -10dB's from 0 reference. It's not possible without gain controls or attun's to make the dial read 0 and I've already sent audyssey messages about this exact problem because lots of customers are anal about the dial reading 0 at reference for some reason. (they have no plans to change it) My audio partner I have now, who's kit we are using, has noticed the same thing.
post #6389 of 18544
Rob and Beast
Thank you for the information. I now understand the why and also what to expect so I have the Dynamic EQ back on. I sometimes read things and form an opinion of being dissatisfied based on my false expectations and incorrect comprehension.
Thanks again
Chris
post #6390 of 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Thanks for the confirmation. I am always low on patience and seeing the words 'thoroughly exhausted" used helps me to erase that idea.
I am looking forward to the SubM XL. Should work Excellent with the HP's.
Thanks
Chris

Integrating my OS with my other sealed subs was actually quite easy, but if you don't like tweeking do not do it. I like working with REW, PEQ, delays etc so for me it was fun. Also FWIW I don't believe all horm designs are the same but the OS was expained to me as a sealed sub encosure with a 14ft horn path.
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