Official JTR speaker thread - Page 214

Purbeast
If the AVR is setting your channel level to -12 try moving the Audyssey mic behind the LP or even further. Since you are running only the front 3 it should work fine.
Keep your crossover set at 80hz.
Turn off Dynamic volume. IMO dynamic volume SUCKS.
I have a 4311 and it only took me 8 months to figure out all the settings and what they actually do. All the important settings are in the manual part of the guide (dark blue). Change speaker impedence to 4ohm.
If you have any questions just keep asking.
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 12/28/12 at 6:12am

Thanks for the confirmation. I am always low on patience and seeing the words 'thoroughly exhausted" used helps me to erase that idea.
I am looking forward to the SubM XL. Should work Excellent with the HP's.
Thanks
Chris

Although I haven't done extensive A/Bing, I kinda like Dynamic EQ but I agree regarding Dynamic Volume (or Dolby Volume for that matter).

It can be frustrating trying to use a typical processor to get the proper setting for the JTR stuff. I struggled with it for a while and thanks to someone who knew more about this stuff it's pretty dialed in now and rocks.

Having the mains at -12 is exactly how it started with mine. After a proper setup they are now at -6.5 and the sub at +2.

You will love the JTR setup once it's dialed in.

I already love it and it's not dialed in lol!

Going to mess around with settings tonight a bit though.

mess with the reference volume setting for Dyn Eq to get it to your liking

I would love to make Dynamic EQ work. It really reads like its the sh-t and at low volumes like -40 it works great. At high volumes like -15 to reference it seems to nueter the surrounds.
Do most people use Dynamic EQ? If so any tips or is it just a turn it on and leave it alone setting?
Thanks
Chris

PokeKevin I have never tried the reference voume settting but I will check into that.
Edited by countryWV - 12/27/12 at 11:52am

The main issue here though is if the overall passband has to be dropped to -12 on his speakers, but then audyssey wants to apply a 5dB cut to peak, it has run out of additional room to do so. I don't know, but at least in my experience, the speakers seemed to do much better when they weren't at -12 post audyssey eq. With that said, I still went in and raised them to 75dB at the LP which usually meant at that point they were only -8dB on the speaker trim, but even then, Audyssey wouldn't have realized that it now had the room to make the cut, so it just seemed it didn't eq as well overall as when I level matched with the amp gain before I ran audyssey


What did you do to accomplish this? adjust amp gain? Toe-in? move the speakers or the LP further distance away? There are many options to achieve the end-result you have, just interested in what you did to get there as it might help otherbeast out


I use it sometimes, I really do like it for lower level listening as it does exactly as it is advertised, overexaggerates the surrounds and sub channels to compensate for lower listening volumes. The problem is your ear gets used to that and likes it, and as you turn the volume up, the closer to reference you get, the less pronounced the effect is as DynEQ is slowly dialing back the amount of boost it gives the surround and bass channels. This leads to the exact issue you alluded to that it "Neuters" the surrounds closer to the reference. Actually, what you are hearing is the surrounds coming more "in-line" with the mains, and it sounds weird since you are used to them being more pronounced. A good medium? Bump the surrounds 3dB over your mains, then you should have the same effect even at reference.

Not disputing what Beast said but this is from Chris at Audyeesy re Dynamic EQ:

I understand what audyssey is trying to do but that reference RMK quoted is somewhat wrong, I don't care what audyssey says. Having done lots of audyssey pro installs, I've noticed that only about a bit more than half of the installs resulted in reference being 0 on the AVR. Pretty much any HE install resulted in it not being 0.
Lots of people with HE speakers will have the same deal. Audyssey can only cut so much, My system at it's current levels are at reference at +70 or -10dB's from 0 reference. It's not possible without gain controls or attun's to make the dial read 0 and I've already sent audyssey messages about this exact problem because lots of customers are anal about the dial reading 0 at reference for some reason. (they have no plans to change it) My audio partner I have now, who's kit we are using, has noticed the same thing.

Rob and Beast
Thank you for the information. I now understand the why and also what to expect so I have the Dynamic EQ back on. I sometimes read things and form an opinion of being dissatisfied based on my false expectations and incorrect comprehension.
Thanks again
Chris

Integrating my OS with my other sealed subs was actually quite easy, but if you don't like tweeking do not do it. I like working with REW, PEQ, delays etc so for me it was fun. Also FWIW I don't believe all horm designs are the same but the OS was expained to me as a sealed sub encosure with a 14ft horn path.

I've run 2 horns, an IB and 4 sealed subs at once before. It's took quite a bit of messing around to get the horns to play nice but the sealed and IB subs were a breeze. I don't see any problems getting everything to work if you have the right gear to do so (minidsp, dcx 2496 etc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile

It can be frustrating trying to use a typical processor to get the proper setting for the JTR stuff. I struggled with it for a while and thanks to someone who knew more about this stuff it's pretty dialed in now and rocks.
Having the mains at -12 is exactly how it started with mine. After a proper setup they are now at -6.5 and the sub at +2.
You will love the JTR setup once it's dialed in.

What did you do to accomplish this? adjust amp gain? Toe-in? move the speakers or the LP further distance away? There are many options to achieve the end-result you have, just interested in what you did to get there as it might help otherbeast out


OK, I will try and remember all the previous settings. When I bought all this equipment I recently moved and hired an audio install company to hook up everything, run the wires, install the IR remote, etc. What they did well was run the wires and program the remote. What they did not so well is EQ everything and make this system shine. Understand they were completely unfamiliar with JTR and pro style stuff.

Audyssey had the JTR LCR at -12.5 and the rear B&W's at +5 or so. They had the Crest CC4000 amp dials at about 10 o'clock cutting out a lot of the signal. Either the install guys or Audyssey had the 2 Caps at +9.5, Looking back now I know why at modest volume the subs were bottoming out.

Thankfully Andrew came over and reran Audyssey and put the dials on the Crest at full 5 oclock and backed off as needed. Audyssey put the LCR's at -6 and the rears at +4 and the subs at 0. This allowed the Crest to be backed off to about 3 o'clock and bumped the subs to +1.5 and if I want up to +2.5 to really crank the music.

What we got was a much better sound, a fuller sound, no more bottoming out of the subs and no more too highs from the JTR's. It really rocks now and I am a much happier camper with the setup. I now am not looking to move up to the Neosis but rather get more bass.

Heading to Gorilla83's place tomorrow to check out his DIY subs. I can't DIY it but might buy two CHT 18.2 subs with the goal of buying 2 more in the near future. Guess I "need" a clone amp too.

Stay tuned, my passive Caps may be for sale by the end of the weekend!

Man, lots of selling going on out there... speaking of which I just put up one of my Submersives for sale.

Yea, I'm suddenly on a mission for more bass now that the triple 12's are sounding awesome.

Something tells me I'll be ordering 2 of the CHT 18.2's and hopefully 2 more in the future and maybe a clone amp. Since I can't DIY it I've got to buy it!

Interesting. What is your plan for more bass?

DIY, either Dayton or SI 18"s. I'm going to buy 8 of them and do single enclosures. I'll stack 4 on each side of my screen, 22" boxes. DIY, here I come... oh boy...

Have you considered an LMS5400 build?

Dayton and SI drivers seem to have taken the spot light. Takes ~2 ish drivers to equal an LMS-5400 performance at 1/2 the cost and utilizing 1/2 the amplifier power. The LMS-5400 driver is still a king --- but if you don't have space concerns the Dayton 18" and the SI 18" can be a very viable options it seems.

Carp - I'm going to assume you've already seen this:

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/4-sub-flat-pack.html

Erich should have them in Baltic birch very soon as well. They will fit the LMS, Dayton, and SI.

SMH !!! Cesar mallan (dog whisperer) has a technic were he uses 2 fingers to pinch the dogs neck to take the dog out of the moment and calm down. (it is called "Tsst" on South Park)
Mabey that trick could work on you. I do look forward to seeing how this all turns out. If it works I may add a few myself but I can't see parting with my Submersives.
Thanks for keeping things interesting.

SeaNile
Carp has a SubM HP for sale.
Check and see what the statis of CHT is. Last I read they were going out of business.
PowerSound Audio has some great value subs. Since you have an amp a used ported cap with 18" driver would be nice. Much better design than the PR Cap.
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 12/28/12 at 6:17am

well thatshould take things to the next level.

So last night I messed with settings quite a bit. I changed the crossover on the bass to be 120hz (forget what it was set to - it was either the top or bottom option). I also changed the channel levels to that of what Seanile recommended with -6.5 for the LCR and +2 for the bass, and turned the gain knobs all the way up on my sub. I also fixed the dip switches on my amp as recommended in the manual (which was the same as default other than turning the clipping limiter on).

After doing that and tweaking it a little bit moving the db levels of the speakers around just a bit i think i found a sweet spot that I like. I watched the same scenes from the Dark Knight and I liked how it sounded better. The bass definitely sounded smoother, as it blended in more as opposed to feeling like "yea that is the sub and it's definitely louder than the other speakers" if you know what I mean. I also watched Saving Private Ryan opening scene and a few scenes from 300 (which BTW is a bad transfer bluray).

So far so good! I'm definitely liking everything A LOT.

This weekend I'm probably going to be doing some more tweaking as well just because I like to tinker around with stuff lol. The only thing I'm worried about now is I feel like the structural integrity of my house should be of concern with some of the bass notes these subs can hit. I hope my house doesn't collapse on me while I'm in the basement watching movies!

Sounds great Purbeast. For whatever reason, my new JTRs worked great after the first Audessey settings. Is there room for improvement..... Probably but very happy as it is so leaving it alone for now.

That is how I feel. Like I am sure there is some room for improvement somewhere, but my ears are not trained well enough to know this and it sounds amazing to me. I'm just amazed at how awesome they sound though. The major area I noticed that sounds REALLY crisp and clear is when things like glass breaks or just a lot of things crashing (that aren't involving bass and coming out of the mains) and how clean it sounds. There were some scenes in The Dark Knight that I noticed this and was like damn, I can almost feel the glass piercing my ears.

Yeah, that's going to be a possibility for sure, although with 8 boxes the savings could add up pretty quick to cut the wood myself - ha, with help that is.

HA!

Yeah I may need a subwoofer whisperer before this is all over.

Carp, I like the look of your room with the Noesis. Very nice! You could move your rack and put a couple of infinite baffle manifolds in that space. Keep the dual Submersives stacked on the other side or placed elsewhere in the room. Add four Fi Car Audio IB318 drivers in two dual opposed manifolds in the front left and you will be in bass heaven. The manifolds are easier to build than subs.

If I had a suspended floor I think I would go IB to get something like what I"ve heard that you have in your room. I love that floor shaking feeling. However, using the room next to my room for IB would mean even more bass throughout the house which is a no go.

Yeah, the Noesis look nice and all, but I really miss my sit 'n spin speaker stands.