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Official JTR speaker thread - Page 230

post #6871 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Beast - John (Seanile) lives 5 minutes from me. smile.gif He will be there as well.

BONUS!!!! Oh, and John, as they often say around here, you certainly out-kicked your coverage with that lady on the left smile.gif
post #6872 of 18503
I am on Frolich's team then. LOL.

Us Cincy guys need to stick together.

Hey Frohlich, do you belong to Kenwood CC by chance?
post #6873 of 18503
My game is pretty rusty lol. My biz partner was an All-American at UT though...he was a senior when Justin Leonard was a frosh.....he can golf his ball! eek.gif
post #6874 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post


How would that 8 sub set up compare to 1 OS in the 20-80hz range. I know Jeff said it would take 2 Cap S2's to equal 1 OS in that freq range.

Did you see this exchange?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman

RMK was gracious enough to give a demo of his system tonight. I was in the Sacramento area for work and sent him a PM.
There were two things I wanted to hear, and both happen to be JTR products… The Triple12, and the OS. It just so happens, he recently sold the T12s and has bran new Neosis for LCR. Even better!
First off, his theater room is awesome. Aesthetically pleasing, spacious, great acoustics after what he’s done to it, and the AT screen is just beautiful. My theater room, called “the dungeon”, or “the scary room” by my wife, looks even worse now, and that shouldn’t be possible. Thanks a lot, Rob…
Anyway, on to my impressions, and I think Jeff did a fantastic job with the Neosis. I’ve been dabbling in the DIY world, most recently working on building crossovers, and for the 12s in the Neosis to blend in as well and they do with the CD, Jeff is really doing a quality job with that crossover. Just amazing. I don’t want to guess as to how many hours he put into R&D for the crossover for this speaker! Highs were crisp and clean, not harsh, and the mids blended seamlessly and were very detailed. At several points in the demo Rob exceeded +5db in the main volume, and Neosis didn’t even blink. Never sounded strained or distorted ever.
As for the bass, I feel I’ve heard the best of what’s out there, and I wasn’t expecting to being impressed by two 18s, regardless of their configuration. I was definitely wrong! For starters, the obit shifters are HUGE. Pictures don’t paint the whole picture here. Second, having never heard a horn loaded sub before, they do have a “unique” sound to them, and I’m saying that in a completely positive way. Great punch, great detail, and great sub 20hz response and tactile feel. I know for a fact that at certain points in the demo the orbit shifters exceeded 125db, and they did so effortlessly. Considering I have quad LMS 5400s and 16kw worth of power feeding them, I didn’t expect two 18s and half the power to accomplish what they did. I may have to build four “gjallarhorn” enclosures for my 5400s now
Thanks for the demo, Rob!

And, this post in the DIY Section:
Quote:
A trip over to RMK’s place a couple days ago got the wheels turning. Long story short, two JTR Orbit Shifters, which combined is two 18” drivers and 8kw of power, gave my quad 18’s and 16kw of power a run for their money! To be more specific, I feel his setup had greater output above 30hz, and mine had greater output from the mid 20’s on down.

The efficiency of the horn design definitely impressed me, so I started to look around. It didn’t take me long to find the GJALLARGORN on Ricci’s data-bass.com. From his measurements, just one gjallarhorn will outperform all four of my sealed 5400s from 16-40hz-ish, and obviously with far less power.

The plan is two build two of these, and re-use two of the 5400s from one of my sealed cabinets. That means I’ll still have two other sealed 5400s powered by a LG clone, which can help cover the top 60-80hz portion where the gjallarhorn may need some help. The only investment for me is the cost of the wood.

Ricci already emailed me the detailed plans, so all I have to do is find 4x8 sheets of quality Baltic birch and I’ll get started:)

Point of this being that hearing the OS's prompted this fellow to want to build a couple of Horn based subs using two of his super drivers that are currently installed in a sealed cabinet he built. I admire his abilities and understand Luke's priorities. For some of us, just buying something that performs at the level of the OS's is the best course. In any case, this just provides a bit more information for someone looking for a sub like the OS. cool.gif





I don't mind at all.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't watching for the clip lights on the OS...

Just when I thought those 4kw amps would for sure be out of juice, you'd turn them up even more! And guess what, clip lights never blinked, not once.

The next day after I got home I played the Daedmau5 track in that DVD, the "Ghost 'N' stuff" Nero remix, until I saw clip lights on the LG amps. I admit, the orbit shifters had more output, and they were in a larger room than mine.
post #6875 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Are you saying your audio memory is better than mine? mad.gifwink.gif

The guy that bought my Triple 12's is willing to bring them back for an AB test. He is having surgery next Friday and will be down for a few weeks but we were thinking late Feb, early March would work.

that would be a good test to do an A/B and a lot of people here would obviously be interested. And no way am I saying my audio memory is better than your or anyone, in fact my memory in general lately has been suspect on certain topics. I do know my speakers sound better when I party like a rock star though, actually I cannot party like a rock star anymore but several beers will work:cool:
post #6876 of 18503
Using my fuzzy math, my 8 drivers have a little more output than 2 Cap 2 sealed subs. 2 Cap 2 Sealed subs have the same output as an Orbit Shifter above 20hz according to Jeff.


So, the 8 drivers would have just a little more ouptut than a single Orbit Shifter - BUT - that would only be the case if I co-located them all, like 2 stacks of 4 in the same corner, or 4 dual opposed in the same corner. I don't think I'm going to configure them that way....

Now, under 20 hz the 8 drivers will have the advantage, just like the Cap 2 sealed has the advantage vs the Orbit Shifter. Basically, I'm getting a bit more output than dual Cap 2's, or 4 Submersives for way less money. Will the sound quality be there? That remains to be seen, but if they sound like the Dayton drivers (and early reports say they do) then I'm golden.
post #6877 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Humm, JTR open house this summer and a couple of days of G in the greater Madison area? Must be some nice courses in the area.

Or go to Austin (maybe not middle of summer wink.gif). Some great courses there.

Of course I Iove the Madison idea. Does anybody know if Jeff golfs? If it was a motorcycle race I know he would be in for sure!!
post #6878 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Using my fuzzy math, my 8 drivers have a little more output than 2 Cap 2 sealed subs. 2 Cap 2 Sealed subs have the same output as an Orbit Shifter above 20hz according to Jeff.


So, the 8 drivers would have just a little more ouptut than a single Orbit Shifter - BUT - that would only be the case if I co-located them all, like 2 stacks of 4 in the same corner, or 4 dual opposed in the same corner. I don't think I'm going to configure them that way....

Now, under 20 hz the 8 drivers will have the advantage, just like the Cap 2 sealed has the advantage vs the Orbit Shifter. Basically, I'm getting a bit more output than dual Cap 2's, or 4 Submersives for way less money. Will the sound quality be there? That remains to be seen, but if they sound like the Dayton drivers (and early reports say they do) then I'm golden.

can't wait for your impressions. and its great you are using FR measuring tools to help with placement too.
post #6879 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

The upgrades are never done it seems.




This and Frolich's room make me sad that all of my stuff is hidden behind the screen. Oh well, if it wasn't my wife wouldn't let it in the house.
post #6880 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post

Going back and forth between the T8'S/T12's or the Noesis has been quite exhausting for sure. I have a T12 demo tomorrow, which should either help tremendously or increase the challenge of picking which model to go with...

Maybe I won't like the sound at all and stick with my Klipsch speakers.rolleyes.gif..

Not a chance.
post #6881 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

This and Frolich's room make me sad that all of my stuff is hidden behind the screen. Oh well, if it wasn't my wife wouldn't let it in the house.

It's all about balancing the WAF and the WTF factors. I'd love to start over, have an AT screen and build a huge wall of speakers behind the screen. Not seeing anything would rate high on the WAF but starting over and buying more stuff would also rate high on the WTF scale. Generally speaking things that are high on the WTF scale are more challenging to "get approval" on for those that need approval in the WAF category. Still learning this crap after almost 10 years of marriage.
post #6882 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post

I am on Frolich's team then. LOL.

Us Cincy guys need to stick together.

Hey Frohlich, do you belong to Kenwood CC by chance?

I do not but I have played it many times. I also have played Camargo several times. It's good to knowz people smile.gif I play mostly with a group of guys that likes to rotate courses every weekend. Since you know the area, we play Legendary, Shaker Run, Lassing, Blue Ash, Stonelick, etc.. all the time and then rotate in some CC and other rounds and my summer is shot wink.gif
post #6883 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

My game is pretty rusty lol. My biz partner was an All-American at UT though...he was a senior when Justin Leonard was a frosh.....he can golf his ball! eek.gif

I am guessing your being modest. I am sure you would clean up with us hacks. I tend to float around a 7 handicap but some days I look like a 2 and some days I look like a 20....a maddening but endearing game.
post #6884 of 18503
Carp just please run all your driver to near xmax before you install them for at least 10 mins each. I see so many guys just check to make sure they'll do anything and install them. Make sure you give them some power and really get them moving free air before you install them into their boxes. Having done this 100's of times and numerous failures, it's such a pain in the butt once they are installed. At least if you have one making noise, you can send them back now and not later.

As for golf, I got my handicap down to 8 this year and am pretty happy about it. I only have 5-6 months a year to golf and I got out over 20 times this year, I'm happy about that, though the wife maybe not so much haha
post #6885 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

In all fairness, I do play golf but just started last July. I've got about 10 rounds under my belt and I am terrible at this point. Joined my local CC and hope to get out there a few times a week once spring comes. Being is sales has it's perks! Also will take a few lessons once the weather warms up a bit.

I'm strongly considering a 7-10 day trip to London/Dublin/Paris to see Roger Waters perform The Wall a few more times but if I do not do that a golf/stereo trip sounds like fun. If you guys ever make it out the the Philadelphia area we could hit my country club and then go and hang out on the boat.

Going to see him in London would be pretty sweet. Where is he playing there? I caught his show twice the last time he was in Toronto. It was awesome and we had good floor seats both nights. Tickets weren't cheap though - I think they were around $300 each. Probably be even more in London.

edit: Just saw your other posts. F'n awesome!
post #6886 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

It's all about balancing the WAF and the WTF factors. I'd love to start over, have an AT screen and build a huge wall of speakers behind the screen. Not seeing anything would rate high on the WAF but starting over and buying more stuff would also rate high on the WTF scale. Generally speaking things that are high on the WTF scale are more challenging to "get approval" on for those that need approval in the WAF category. Still learning this crap after almost 10 years of marriage.

Haha, WTF? I assume it is its general use term for kinda the way I feel still looking at all my subs I have at the moment. They grace my eyes every time I walk in the front door and all I think is how bad I want them all installed, and all the time I DONT have to build the boxes. After doing the three SEOS boxes that should be ready to rock soon, I don't even want to think about all the additional ply I need for FOUR 8-9 cuft boxes to fit all 8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

I am guessing your being modest. I am sure you would clean up with us hacks. I tend to float around a 7 handicap but some days I look like a 2 and some days I look like a 20....a maddening but endearing game.

Jeez, you guys. I don't want to be a part of this gathering anymore. I can play par golf on some days, and shoot 100 the other 65% of the time. Good thing is I never get frustrated, I just enjoy the game. The whole "Better a bad day of golf than a good day in the office" mentality if you will. I don't even have an official handicap but if I had to guess, it would be around 15-18 haha. I can putt like champ though, so whichever team needs some short game, and a long ball, I can help. It's the in-between that really kills me smile.gif Can anyone say common hozzle shank?
post #6887 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

I do not but I have played it many times. I also have played Camargo several times. It's good to knowz people smile.gif I play mostly with a group of guys that likes to rotate courses every weekend. Since you know the area, we play Legendary, Shaker Run, Lassing, Blue Ash, Stonelick, etc.. all the time and then rotate in some CC and other rounds and my summer is shot wink.gif

I am familiar with most of those course, but only played a few of them in my golfing career. Reason I asked you about Kenwood is a good, long time family friend is the GM there.
post #6888 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Carp just please run all your driver to near xmax before you install them for at least 10 mins each. I see so many guys just check to make sure they'll do anything and install them. Make sure you give them some power and really get them moving free air before you install them into their boxes. Having done this 100's of times and numerous failures, it's such a pain in the butt once they are installed. At least if you have one making noise, you can send them back now and not later.

As for golf, I got my handicap down to 8 this year and am pretty happy about it. I only have 5-6 months a year to golf and I got out over 20 times this year, I'm happy about that, though the wife maybe not so much haha

Wow, 10 minutes? I was running a 10 hz test tone at 8 under reference using the left main speaker wire from my receiver. Should I use this volume and hz or use a higher freq tone? I won't hurt the driver?
post #6889 of 18503
I don't have as much experience as you n8dogg, with DIY subs but that seems like overkill. 10hz test tone for 10 minutes? That sounds like a good way to encounter thermal limits of the driver if it can't cool down and is running at near max excursion for 10 minutes. talk about a torture test...you'd want to be careful with how much wattage you used I should think --- especially in free air!
post #6890 of 18503
thought you guys might get a kick out of seeing my old def tech center and rears in my temp set up while I wait. At the same MV the system is down about 13dB, whcih makes sense about 10dB on sensitivity and another 3dB because the are 8 ohm vs 4 ohm for the JTR set up. The one thing that is going to make it hard to compare the Neosis to my old T12 set up is I will have been listening to this set up for a month in between. It will only make the Neosis seem that much better though!


Wouldn't an S1 sub look much better under the rack compared to the smallish velo 12'???? I measured and it would fit perfect!


the room is 33 ft long and I have read the wave guide design will project to the rear without as much dB loss. I would welcome that for listening to music when at the rear table.
post #6891 of 18503
How about a few recommendations for surrounds to be mated with the Noesis?

Conditions..............

Must be no more than 4 '' in depth with sensitivity of 92 deebers or more.................

Would appreciate suggestions from those in the know. Thanks.............
post #6892 of 18503
Ok, told myself weeks ago I wasn't going to break down and do this, but here I am breaking down and doing this...

For the few of you that keep calling Jeff's hot new speaker 'Neosis', repeat after me: Noesis...Noesis...Noesis...Noesis...

There now, I feel better. I know if I was f-ing JTR's flagship speaker's name up, I would want to be told. biggrin.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gif
post #6893 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post

Ok, told myself weeks ago I wasn't going to break down and do this, but here I am breaking down and doing this...

For the few of you that keep calling Jeff's hot new speaker 'Neosis', repeat after me: Noesis...Noesis...Noesis...Noesis...

There now, I feel better. I know if I was f-ing JTR's flagship speaker's name up, I would want to be told. biggrin.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gif

Maybe he should have called them Neurosis due to all the angst the buying decision seems to cause ... tongue.gif
post #6894 of 18503
I never said to run 10hz sine waves through them for 10 minutes, where the heck do you get that from Archaea?? LOL Just play some bassy music for at least 10 minutes at a good clip. You're not going to hurt them as free air, they won't take close to what they can handle power wise to reach xmax free air. Likely about half. You will not reach thermal limits nor will you be even close. I usually let my drivers go for 3-4 hours at close to xmax before I put them into boxes. 10 minutes is the least you can do to eliminate most of the possibility of failure. Once you loosen them up a bit, ciol rub or any other problems will likely be staring you in the face if there is any problems.
post #6895 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post

Ok, told myself weeks ago I wasn't going to break down and do this, but here I am breaking down and doing this...

For the few of you that keep calling Jeff's hot new speaker 'Neosis', repeat after me: Noesis...Noesis...Noesis...Noesis...

There now, I feel better. I know if I was f-ing JTR's flagship speaker's name up, I would want to be told. biggrin.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gif

wow, I'm glad you pointed that out I don't think I ever spelled it right yet. I was thinking Neosis the whole time. Noesis does make a lot more sense!
post #6896 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

I am guessing your being modest. I am sure you would clean up with us hacks. I tend to float around a 7 handicap but some days I look like a 2 and some days I look like a 20....a maddening but endearing game.

With a 7 handicap I would not call that a hack, not bad at all. Legendary...that's my area.
post #6897 of 18503
Nothing worse than hanging at home all weekend with a wicked cold/flu/sinus infection and not being able to listen to my HT. It has given me a bit of time to think about things aside from dying to order 4 more subs. Think my next step is to add a few acoustical treatments to the room. Silly to even think about spending money to upgrade to the NEOSIS (just kidding) in a room full of drywall. GIK the best place to go for a few panels? This will be a classic WAF vs. WTF thing.

Without knowing much about acoustical treatments my limited research is thinking 6 panels....2 on side walls, 1 behind each L&R speaker and 2 for ceiling? That ought to cover the first reflection points. Maybe add another behind the center speaker if I can fit it back there.
post #6898 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Nothing worse than hanging at home all weekend with a wicked cold/flu/sinus infection and not being able to listen to my HT. It has given me a bit of time to think about things aside from dying to order 4 more subs. Think my next step is to add a few acoustical treatments to the room. Silly to even think about spending money to upgrade to the NEOSIS (just kidding) in a room full of drywall. GIK the best place to go for a few panels? This will be a classic WAF vs. WTF thing.

Without knowing much about acoustical treatments my limited research is thinking 6 panels....2 on side walls, 1 behind each L&R speaker and 2 for ceiling? That ought to cover the first reflection points. Maybe add another behind the center speaker if I can fit it back there.

All of my non homemade panels are from GIK, they are very nice. RMK mentioned a few pages ago that he has both GIK and ATS products and I believe he said he preferred the ATS.

I went with the plan of treating the front wall (behind the screen), ceiling and back wall that RMK mentioned a while ago and am extremely happy with the results. I left the side walls alone.

However the WTF factor may be higher with panels on the ceiling.

anu6yruh.jpg

y3etebu3.jpg

Keeping everything white helped the WAF while probably hurting image quality.
post #6899 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Maybe he should have called them Neurosis due to all the angst the buying decision seems to cause ... tongue.gif

Lol! You might be on to something...this is a definition from Merriam-Webster:

"Noesis - purely intellectual apprehension" biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post

wow, I'm glad you pointed that out I don't think I ever spelled it right yet. I was thinking Neosis the whole time. Noesis does make a lot more sense!

I had to look it up when I first saw it...was thinking the name had something to do with higher knowledge...which seems to be a fitting description of the speaker's great HT AND music abilities. smile.gif
post #6900 of 18503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post

Lol! You might be on to something...this is a definition from Merriam-Webster:

"Noesis - purely intellectual apprehension" biggrin.gif
I had to look it up when I first saw it...was thinking the name had something to do with higher knowledge...which seems to be a fitting description of the speaker's great HT AND music abilities. smile.gif

Me too. The science of wave mechanics, frequency in room reponse, psychoacoustics, and so on should be enough. Now extended vocabulary too. i MUST BE IN A DEEPER END OF THE POOL THAN i THOUGHT. biggrin.gif:p:D
Edited by lbrown105 - 1/19/13 at 11:42pm
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