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Official JTR speaker thread - Page 241

post #7201 of 8265
2/10/13 at 8:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Well then, there's your answer ... tongue.gifwink.gifsmile.gif
You never know. If the price is right, I might be able to sell it.
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post #7202 of 8265
2/10/13 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

You never know. If the price is right, I might be able to sell it.
Hope springs eternal ... good luck! smile.gif

BTW, if you end up painting the T8's, do not attempt to paint the grill cloth. You should be able to find white grill cloth on-line.
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post #7203 of 8265
2/10/13 at 2:06pm
Hi Guys,

I hooked up the new Crown XLS-1500s today and also played around with audyssey and REW to analyze audyssey / S2 level issues.

I originally reported that Audyssey was setting my S2 6-10 db lower than the mains and Jedirun suggested manually setting the level to 75 db before running audyssey. I tried that today but Audyssey pushed the sub level even lower (to -7.5 instead of -2.5) and ended up at the same absolute level.

Ufokillerz pointed me to RS SPL meter correction files. I used them with REW today and measured the frequency response. The test confirmed that Audyssey is indeed having problems with properly level matching between my mains (Quintuples) and the S2.

See the blue line in the attached FR graph. Note that this measurement represents the sub level after I bumped it up by 2.5 db (-5 db instead of the original -7.5). I also learned that I have a null which is causing a dip close to 110 Hz.

I played around with audyssey settings, sub levels, and many crossover settings. Finally, I managed to achieve a pretty decent FR by switching to audyssey flat, setting the sub level to -2.5 (5 db higher than the Audyssey-selected setting) and raising the crossover setting for mains to 120 Hz. The purple line represents my final configuration.

Impressions on the crowns to come later. They are light weight with a solid-build feeling and very quiet!

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post #7204 of 8265
2/10/13 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Hope springs eternal ... good luck! smile.gif

BTW, if you end up painting the T8's, do not attempt to paint the grill cloth. You should be able to find white grill cloth on-line.
Mine have the metal grills and speakons. I had Jeff make them like that to be as childproof as possible. I did not know they would eventually end up behind an AT screen.
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post #7205 of 8265
2/10/13 at 9:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

+1. I was going to call Jeff and order the T8-LP this week, and just saw this. Now, I will need to decide if I want T8-LP or 228HT.
I had sent a couple of questions to Jeff, but he is probably too busy doing a lot of stuff, so maybe I can get some general information here. It seems to me that T8-LP is 3-way (coax) while 228HT is 2-way (but with horn). What would be the difference between a 2-way and 3-way in this case? And since it is using the T8 woofers, I assume it will go as low as T8? (I was hoping it goes a bit lower so I can crossover my sub lower).

you are correct, It should model on the low end similarly to the T8's ported, vs the 228 ported. The LP will have a more gradual roll-off but with a little less midbass as it is a sealed offering. The benefit of the horn over the 3 way coax design is tough to know unless Jeff posts the crossover points, but I would guess the woofers on the T8 will handoff to the midrange a little lower than the 2way design of the 228's, but thte added ability of a different compression driver might make-up for this. It is NOT the big two way CD they have on the Noesis 212, but more than likely is capable down the around 1-1.2khz where a LOT of the horns usually handoff to the mids in these types of designs. This is just speculation but in my opinion, the 228 will be a good upgrade in design over the regular T8 or T8LP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Hi Jedi,

To mount the T8's on the wall you need to make some holes. A French cleat (wood or metal) would be best to support the 50lbs. I used an 8" long piece of 1"X4" birch that I ripped in half with a 45 degree cut. Attach one to the wall and the other to the back of the T8. Jeff installed keyhole mounts on my T8LP's so they sit pretty flush.

Any model T8 should blend fine as rear surrounds.

Haha, awesome, as this was the same way I have mounted every single thing in my entire basement that is on a wall biggrin.gif Surrounds, acoustic panels, pictures, you name it. Even my old DIY screen but I did the same as you with a 45 degree cut and made my own french cleats there. What a wonderful yet old-school way of mounting things up. Glad they exist biggrin.gif I could literally hang off my screen previously without the screws moving an inch in the wall. Certainly good enough to mount some t8's if you can just find a single stud.
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post #7206 of 8265
2/10/13 at 9:16pm
Logicators,

Lookin good on the FR, don't be stingy tho! Lets see those below 10hz #'s!!! Audyssey certainly has had issues with my last three sub builds so I take it's final results with a grain of salt from the Sub XO freq and down. It has ALWAYS yielded better results for me to go in and tweak all the same things that you did to get a better overall response smile.gif I run my subs on a pretty decent house curve, but getting it right in that XO region is almost more important than just running your LFE channel hot. You get it right and you don't have to unecesssarily run the subs hot to make up for phasing/blending issues!! Something else fun to play with is Audyssey's speaker distance settings as this by itself can sometime alleviate some of those XO cancellation issues...
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post #7207 of 8265
2/11/13 at 4:30am
Thanks smile.gif I am planning to play around with more / less toe-in, moving mains a little bit, and distance settings next.

The only reason I did not include below 10 Hz data is because I am using a RS SPL meter which do not have reliable results below 10 Hz and over 3K. I am thinking of ordering a Behringer ECM8000 or a USB mic for future experiments.
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post #7208 of 8265
2/12/13 at 12:22pm
Guys, are my horns turned right? Here is a picture of one of my mains if you look close you can see the oval is taller than it is wide - is that right? Jeff turned on of them 45 degrees for my center channel and I wonder if he made a mistake. I'd ask him but I know he's crazy busy and I figured I'd get an answer here first.

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post #7209 of 8265
2/12/13 at 1:02pm
Carp, that looks correct for L/R orentation based off how Jeff had them set up at Rillas in October

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post #7210 of 8265
2/12/13 at 3:07pm
So I had to work all night last night which meant I got the day off today. I took advantage of my wife being at the gym this morning and watched a movie at reference.

My T8's kicked some serious butt and I realized that while there may be some improvement by moving to the 228's I am not missing anything now and going with the already wife approved slanted 8 surrounds is the right decision to ensure further marital bliss.
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post #7211 of 8265
2/12/13 at 4:00pm
Thanks Sibuna. Some of what I read in chopshops über build thread made me wonder and I wanted to make sure.
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post #7212 of 8265
2/12/13 at 4:03pm
smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

So I had to work all night last night which meant I got the day off today. I took advantage of my wife being at the gym this morning and watched a movie at reference.

My T8's kicked some serious butt and I realized that while there may be some improvement by moving to the 228's I am not missing anything now and going with the already wife approved slanted 8 surrounds is the right decision to ensure further marital bliss.

Good thinking ... If mamas not happy, nobodys happy. smile.gif
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post #7213 of 8265
2/12/13 at 10:52pm
Well I finally finished reading threw all 241 pages of this thread. Took a little longer then I thought but having two little ones doesn't always give you a lot of time to yourself to do some serious reading. Anyways it was great reading about JTR speakers getting better every year, Jeff really seems to have a passion to make some of the best speakers in the industry. It was also cool to read about everyone's upgrades over the years. And man RMK aka Rob really loves his JTR products! Lol

I'm glad I read everything and am now totally sold on going with JTR speakers over the Ascend Sierra towers and matching centre that I had talked about in a few of my posts. I'm really looking forward to hearing more about the new 228HTs. And I think for my room they'll work best. I'm almost embarrassed to say but i'll be upgrading from an older pair of JBL Northridge E80 towers and a EC35 centre channel. I've spend the last year building and slowly upgrading my theater room. Last year I went with 2 pairs of Axiom QS8 surrounds, I know they won't keep up with the 228HTs but they'll have to do for now. I also went with a JVC RS45 projector and 112" Grandview fixed frame screen. And just this past December I upgraded to dual PSA XS30 subs.

I thought I would be all done after I get my new LCR speakers but now I'm going to build a front stage in my room and put up a false wall with acoustical transparent panels along with a acoustical transparent screen to hide everything. But now I'm also thinking about getting rid of the XS30s and go with an Orbit shifter because it would all be hidden behind the wall and screen.
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post #7214 of 8265
2/13/13 at 12:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Well I finally finished reading threw all 241 pages of this thread. Took a little longer then I thought but having two little ones doesn't always give you a lot of time to yourself to do some serious reading. Anyways it was great reading about JTR speakers getting better every year, Jeff really seems to have a passion to make some of the best speakers in the industry. It was also cool to read about everyone's upgrades over the years. And man RMK aka Rob really loves his JTR products! Lol

I'm glad I read everything and am now totally sold on going with JTR speakers over the Ascend Sierra towers and matching centre that I had talked about in a few of my posts. I'm really looking forward to hearing more about the new 228HTs. And I think for my room they'll work best. I'm almost embarrassed to say but i'll be upgrading from an older pair of JBL Northridge E80 towers and a EC35 centre channel. I've spend the last year building and slowly upgrading my theater room. Last year I went with 2 pairs of Axiom QS8 surrounds, I know they won't keep up with the 228HTs but they'll have to do for now. I also went with a JVC RS45 projector and 112" Grandview fixed frame screen. And just this past December I upgraded to dual PSA XS30 subs.

I thought I would be all done after I get my new LCR speakers but now I'm going to build a front stage in my room and put up a false wall with acoustical transparent panels along with a acoustical transparent screen to hide everything. But now I'm also thinking about getting rid of the XS30s and go with an Orbit shifter because it would all be hidden behind the wall and screen.

Why not go for the S2? It would be sealed just like your XS30s?
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post #7215 of 8265
2/13/13 at 7:06am
OK looking for help for newbie with JTRs... this thread is overwhelmingly long! Even searches turn up too much and non specific. Started reading from beginning and looked at few end posts and looks like the products are changing rapidly.

I have a dedicated home theater room 14x21, looking to replace speakers with JTR. Triple 8HT across front but after that confused:

What are your thoughts on sides and rears in a 7.1 (thinner triple8's, or will slanted work?
Will slanted work for rear ceiling
Do the thinner 8H - LT's sound as good as the full size

Also what is the story on the horn speakers everyone is recently talking about, don't see them on the JTR website
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post #7216 of 8265
2/13/13 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lem View Post

OK looking for help for newbie with JTRs... this thread is overwhelmingly long! Even searches turn up too much and non specific. Started reading from beginning and looked at few end posts and looks like the products are changing rapidly.

I have a dedicated home theater room 14x21, looking to replace speakers with JTR. Triple 8HT across front but after that confused:

What are your thoughts on sides and rears in a 7.1 (thinner triple8's, or will slanted work?
Will slanted work for rear ceiling
Do the thinner 8H - LT's sound as good as the full size

Also what is the story on the horn speakers everyone is recently talking about, don't see them on the JTR website

For surrounds you could use the single 8, triple 8 or the new 228HT (coming soon). The 228HT has a horn like the Noesis but it is not the identical driver. The Noesis are listed under the "residential" section of the web site. The 228HT is not listed there yet but you can find pictures of it in the JTR forum on JTR website.

BTW, welcome fellow Ohioan. I am in Cincinnati smile.gif
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post #7217 of 8265
2/13/13 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lem View Post

OK looking for help for newbie with JTRs... this thread is overwhelmingly long! Even searches turn up too much and non specific. Started reading from beginning and looked at few end posts and looks like the products are changing rapidly.

I have a dedicated home theater room 14x21, looking to replace speakers with JTR. Triple 8HT across front but after that confused:

What are your thoughts on sides and rears in a 7.1 (thinner triple8's, or will slanted work?
Will slanted work for rear ceiling
Do the thinner 8H - LT's sound as good as the full size

Also what is the story on the horn speakers everyone is recently talking about, don't see them on the JTR website

Welcome Mark,

I guess this Thread has become a bit unwieldy and getting OT is an all too common occurrence (mea cupla tongue.gif ). That said, many have asked the same questions you have and so cutting to the chase, the Triple 8's make great HT speakers and using them as LCR's behind an AT screen is ideal.Unless you room is very large (over 4000^3) I would use either Single or Slanted 8's as surrounds. I'm using the T8-LP's as side surrounds and they are excellent for MC music but for HT use the singles would do just as well IMHO.

The new horn models (info is on the JTR Forum page) do offer better performance but that comes at a price. The best way to tell if they are for you is to hear them. If that isn't possible then reading owners subjective opinions is all you have. I can't imagine anyone being unhappy with JTR products for HT use but then, I'm biased (as is virtually every person who actively posts on the Forum).

Good luck and good listening ... smile.gif
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post #7218 of 8265
2/13/13 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Welcome Mark,

The best way to tell if they are for you is to hear them. If that isn't possible then reading owners subjective opinions is all you have. I can't imagine anyone being unhappy with JTR products for HT use but then, I'm biased (as is virtually every person who actively posts on the Forum).

Good luck and good listening ... smile.gif

Great answer and one that I couldn't agree with more. I was able to travel to Oconomowoc (cool little town, btw) and hear the T8's for myself. That sold me. If you cant go to the source, see if there is anyone near you who can demo them. BTW, I love my T8-LP's.
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post #7219 of 8265
2/13/13 at 11:37am
Thanks guys for cutting to the chase, since I'm 99% home theater in my room I think these will work great!
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post #7220 of 8265
2/13/13 at 1:43pm
I got some answers from Jeff, despite his crazy schedule. Really appreciated, Jeff!

I asked Jeff the difference between T8-LP and 228HT, and here is what he got:

The advantage of the Noesis 228HT is in non treated rooms or rooms that are highly reflective because of the narrower coverage pattern. For wide rooms, sides and surrounds the Triple 8HT is still the way to go because of the wider dispersion.
There isn't any plans to build a Noesis 228HT-lp because narrow coverage won't work well as sides or surrounds and the Noesis need roughly 20 degrees of toe in, toward the listener for left and right so a wall mounted "lp" would only work well as a center channel.

The benefit of the coaxial is uniform sound and better power response (off axis) however horns have smoother on axis response and generally a wider range of coverage patterns available.
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post #7221 of 8265
2/13/13 at 3:49pm
Well my room is 14ft across the front wall and then 20ft in length but the last 8ft of the room where my seating is its only 11ft wide so I think these 228HT's would be the ticket I'm looking for. I would really love to get the 212HT-LP's but they would probably be total over kill!...lol I really don't know what to do, should I just say screw and get the 212HT-lps? I'm 6 months away from probably them anyways unless there was some really good pricing on the pre-order for the 228HT.

And then of course I say to myself that if I'm willing to go with the size of the 212HT-LP maybe I should just get the Triple 12HT-LP, because I'm only using the set up for 100%movies. So would I even notice the difference betweem the Noesis and T12s. So confusing!..lol
And I'm pretty sure I'll have to buy these without hearing them because I don't recall anyone from Vancouver Canada having a set!..lol
Edited by jbrown15 - 2/13/13 at 3:58pm
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post #7222 of 8265
2/13/13 at 3:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

I got some answers from Jeff, despite his crazy schedule. Really appreciated, Jeff!

I asked Jeff the difference between T8-LP and 228HT, and here is what he got:

The advantage of the Noesis 228HT is in non treated rooms or rooms that are highly reflective because of the narrower coverage pattern. For wide rooms, sides and surrounds the Triple 8HT is still the way to go because of the wider dispersion.
There isn't any plans to build a Noesis 228HT-lp because narrow coverage won't work well as sides or surrounds and the Noesis need roughly 20 degrees of toe in, toward the listener for left and right so a wall mounted "lp" would only work well as a center channel.

The benefit of the coaxial is uniform sound and better power response (off axis) however horns have smoother on axis response and generally a wider range of coverage patterns available.
Thank you. More reasons for me to stick with the T8's.
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post #7223 of 8265
2/13/13 at 5:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Why not go for the S2? It would be sealed just like your XS30s?

Hmmm I hadn't really thought too much about the S2, I guess I should consider that too. I liked the output of the Orbit for 25hz and up as I watch a lot of movies and most movies have more mid bass and I really like that kick in the chest mid bass slam. It was one of the reasons I went with the XS30 over something like the Rythmik FV15HP.
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post #7224 of 8265
2/13/13 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Hmmm I hadn't really thought too much about the S2, I guess I should consider that too. I liked the output of the Orbit for 25hz and up as I watch a lot of movies and most movies have more mid bass and I really like that kick in the chest mid bass slam. It was one of the reasons I went with the XS30 over something like the Rythmik FV15HP.

If that's the case get the Orbit Shifter hands down. I've heard them both, and they are both amazing but the OS will punch you in the chest harder if you want to get really nuts with it. 2 of them affected my breathing at crazy volumes, it's hard to describe the feeling but I liked it. smile.gif
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post #7225 of 8265
2/13/13 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

If that's the case get the Orbit Shifter hands down. I've heard them both, and they are both amazing but the OS will punch you in the chest harder if you want to get really nuts with it. 2 of them affected my breathing at crazy volumes, it's hard to describe the feeling but I liked it. smile.gif

I don't like getting punched...eek.gif
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post #7226 of 8265
2/13/13 at 7:42pm
Haha, yeah we've joked about how we should hire people to shake the couch or punch me in the chest at the right moments to get some crazy tactile "feel". biggrin.gif What a fun job that would be.
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post #7227 of 8265
2/13/13 at 7:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

If that's the case get the Orbit Shifter hands down. I've heard them both, and they are both amazing but the OS will punch you in the chest harder if you want to get really nuts with it. 2 of them affected my breathing at crazy volumes, it's hard to describe the feeling but I liked it. smile.gif

My rooms not that big either so I'm sure it would still have good output all the way down to 10hz wouldn't it?
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post #7228 of 8265
2/13/13 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

My rooms not that big either so I'm sure it would still have good output all the way down to 10hz wouldn't it?

I've heard OS on 2 separate occasions. The first I heard duals at Archaea's place and jedimastergrant brought his single OS over to my place once. I didn't measure the response in my room, but it sure as hell didn't feel like the OS was lacking down low. I felt like it went every bit as low as the Submersives with a lot more headroom above 20hz.

You've probably seen this before, but the way Jeff compares it is the OS has the output of dual co-located Cap 2 sealed above 20 hz and the opposite is true below 20hz.
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post #7229 of 8265
2/13/13 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

My rooms not that big either so I'm sure it would still have good output all the way down to 10hz wouldn't it?
My room is about 20x18 and also have a big opening to the living room. 1 OS still able to hit below 10Hz and with my knee curve (+6dB) it feels really good smile.gif
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post #7230 of 8265
2/13/13 at 10:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

My room is about 20x18 and also have a big opening to the living room. 1 OS still able to hit below 10Hz and with my knee curve (+6dB) it feels really good smile.gif

So at 10hz what kind of db do you think its putting out in your room?
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