or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › Official JTR speaker thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official JTR speaker thread - Page 243

post #7261 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Well I guess narrower horizontal dispersion is a goal but like you I understood it the other way. Mine are orientated like yours so I guess that is correct. Like you, much of the real science of this eludes me ... tongue.gif


Quoting myself ...eek.giftongue.gif

If you look at this photo closely it is the horn throat itself that creates the 60°H/40°V dispersion pattern. The oval horn entrance being opposite that is interesting confused.gif
post #7262 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Quoting myself ...eek.giftongue.gif

If you look at this photo closely it is the horn throat itself that creates the 60°H/40°V dispersion pattern. The oval horn entrance being opposite that is interesting confused.gif

So vertical is narrower than horizontal after all. That would make more sense to me.

Having these priced only $100 more than slanted 8's is making this a difficult decision again.
post #7263 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpconrad View Post

Also interesting is the 2TX (with rhe 212HT horn I believe)

MSRP $2199 Internet Direct $1799, Pre-Order sale $1499 (Feb 15th - March 15th)

It is the 3TX that uses the same horn as the 212HT. I wish it had the same $700 compression driver that the 212HT uses for only $1,499, I would be scrambling for my CC right now tongue.gif
post #7264 of 18477
For me I though there was an obvious and distinct difference between the big Noesis and little for music. The highs were sweeter and smoother, the overall sound was way more addictive, I wanted to turn it up more, soundstage was bigger etc. On my song clips it was so clear to me which I preferred, well on the other guys clips too. With the big Noesis I didn't want each clip to end it sounded so sweet, with the little Noesis it still sounded damn good but didn't draw me in as much. Some songs had a little bit of a harsh edge with the little Noesis that wasn't there with the big guys.

BUT!!!!

I REALLY liked the little Noesis. It is the 2nd best speaker I've heard in my room, I thought it was easily better than my old eD Cinema 12's and I liked it better than the 888's and the DIY SEOS Tempest. When I heard the 888's I had no thoughts whatsoever of wanting to buy them. With these little Noesis I would have been curious and may have pulled the trigger. Of course with the big boys I knew immediately I was in trouble and had to find a way to make it happen even though it was an obscene amount of money.

I love the big Noesis so much because of my preference for music. I listen to music all the time, I always have been that way and I know I always will. For me the big Noesis is a no-brainer because I get an incredible movie speaker that has the sweetest music sound I've ever heard. If however, I just watched movies I would buy the little Noesis instead, unless I had a bigger room.

Now, of the movie clips we watched the only one where I really noticed a difference was the Iron Man 2 ACDC song, and come to think of it none of the other clips had music playing. Still, and I don't know why this is, but my preference towards the big Noesis is much greater when hearing just the actual song (no movie) than when I heard Shoot to Thrill (from Iron Man) in an actual movie. Weird, but that's how it works for me.













Before the big Noesis came along I thought I was more of a sub guy than speaker guy. Hearing it for the first time changed all that, even though I had heard quite a few different speakers by then. Would the same have happened if I heard these smaller Noesis without hearing the big ones? I'm not sure, be they would have come closer than anything else I've heard.
post #7265 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

It is the 3TX that uses the same horn as the 212HT. I wish it had the same $700 compression driver that the 212HT uses for only $1,499, I would be scrambling for my CC right now tongue.gif

From the JTR Facebook page

Noesis 2TX coming soon. Same cabinet, woofers and horn as 3TX however a 2-way design using a 1" compression driver, 1khz crossover point (like the 2AX) and 5lbs less

Same horn as 3TX with different CD I believe
post #7266 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

For me I though there was an obvious and distinct difference between the big Noesis and little for music. The highs were sweeter and smoother, the overall sound was way more addictive, I wanted to turn it up more, soundstage was bigger etc. On my song clips it was so clear to me which I preferred, well on the other guys clips too. With the big Noesis I didn't want each clip to end it sounded so sweet, with the little Noesis it still sounded damn good but didn't draw me in as much. Some songs had a little bit of a harsh edge with the little Noesis that wasn't there with the big guys.

BUT!!!!

I REALLY liked the little Noesis. It is the 2nd best speaker I've heard in my room, I thought it was easily better than my old eD Cinema 12's and I liked it better than the 888's and the DIY SEOS Tempest. When I heard the 888's I had no thoughts whatsoever of wanting to buy them. With these little Noesis I would have been curious and may have pulled the trigger. Of course with the big boys I knew immediately I was in trouble and had to find a way to make it happen even though it was an obscene amount of money.

I love the big Noesis so much because of my preference for music. I listen to music all the time, I always have been that way and I know I always will. For me the big Noesis is a no-brainer because I get an incredible movie speaker that has the sweetest music sound I've ever heard. If however, I just watched movies I would buy the little Noesis instead, unless I had a bigger room.

Now, of the movie clips we watched the only one where I really noticed a difference was the Iron Man 2 ACDC song, and come to think of it none of the other clips had music playing. Still, and I don't know why this is, but my preference towards the big Noesis is much greater when hearing just the actual song (no movie) than when I heard Shoot to Thrill (from Iron Man) in an actual movie. Weird, but that's how it works for me.













Before the big Noesis came along I thought I was more of a sub guy than speaker guy. Hearing it for the first time changed all that, even though I had heard quite a few different speakers by then. Would the same have happened if I heard these smaller Noesis without hearing the big ones? I'm not sure, be they would have come closer than anything else I've heard.
Man, now I have to talk my wife into letting me hang T8's on the wall. I was hoping he would charge more for the 228's so I wouldn't be tempted. That price is just too good to pass up.
post #7267 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

For me I though there was an obvious and distinct difference between the big Noesis and little for music. The highs were sweeter and smoother, the overall sound was way more addictive, I wanted to turn it up more, soundstage was bigger etc. On my song clips it was so clear to me which I preferred, well on the other guys clips too. With the big Noesis I didn't want each clip to end it sounded so sweet, with the little Noesis it still sounded damn good but didn't draw me in as much. Some songs had a little bit of a harsh edge with the little Noesis that wasn't there with the big guys.

BUT!!!!

I REALLY liked the little Noesis. It is the 2nd best speaker I've heard in my room, I thought it was easily better than my old eD Cinema 12's and I liked it better than the 888's and the DIY SEOS Tempest. When I heard the 888's I had no thoughts whatsoever of wanting to buy them. With these little Noesis I would have been curious and may have pulled the trigger. Of course with the big boys I knew immediately I was in trouble and had to find a way to make it happen even though it was an obscene amount of money.

I love the big Noesis so much because of my preference for music. I listen to music all the time, I always have been that way and I know I always will. For me the big Noesis is a no-brainer because I get an incredible movie speaker that has the sweetest music sound I've ever heard. If however, I just watched movies I would buy the little Noesis instead, unless I had a bigger room.

Now, of the movie clips we watched the only one where I really noticed a difference was the Iron Man 2 ACDC song, and come to think of it none of the other clips had music playing. Still, and I don't know why this is, but my preference towards the big Noesis is much greater when hearing just the actual song (no movie) than when I heard Shoot to Thrill (from Iron Man) in an actual movie. Weird, but that's how it works for me.













Before the big Noesis came along I thought I was more of a sub guy than speaker guy. Hearing it for the first time changed all that, even though I had heard quite a few different speakers by then. Would the same have happened if I heard these smaller Noesis without hearing the big ones? I'm not sure, be they would have come closer than anything else I've heard.

Nice write up and photos Carp. Like you, I am very happy with the 212's. The 228's sound like a winner for HT and although that is 90% of my use, there is no going back.
cool.gif
post #7268 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpconrad View Post

From the JTR Facebook page

Noesis 2TX coming soon. Same cabinet, woofers and horn as 3TX however a 2-way design using a 1" compression driver, 1khz crossover point (like the 2AX) and 5lbs less

Same horn as 3TX with different CD I believe

As can be seen in Carps photos, the 228's horn is smaller than the 212's. I think he meant it is the same 60/40 coverage pattern.
post #7269 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

I got some answers from Jeff, despite his crazy schedule. Really appreciated, Jeff!

I asked Jeff the difference between T8-LP and 228HT, and here is what he got:

The advantage of the Noesis 228HT is in non treated rooms or rooms that are highly reflective because of the narrower coverage pattern. For wide rooms, sides and surrounds the Triple 8HT is still the way to go because of the wider dispersion.
There isn't any plans to build a Noesis 228HT-lp because narrow coverage won't work well as sides or surrounds and the Noesis need roughly 20 degrees of toe in, toward the listener for left and right so a wall mounted "lp" would only work well as a center channel.

The benefit of the coaxial is uniform sound and better power response (off axis) however horns have smoother on axis response and generally a wider range of coverage patterns available.

I'm at a total loss when it comes to room acoustics. I have a (soon to be) finished basement with drywall/insulation/concrete walls and either a concrete or tile floor with an area rug. The room is about 425-450 sq feet and will be untreated. Am I correct in thinking that the 228Ht would be better for my space that my current t8-LP's? I'm wondering if it's worth the trip up to Wisconsin to hear them. Thanks for the help!
post #7270 of 18477
Here is a horrible thought that I can't get out of my head. How awesome would the 228's be as surrounds in here!! They would destroy my eD's and then some. Can't do it can't do it can't do it..... eek.gif
post #7271 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogues View Post

I'm at a total loss when it comes to room acoustics. I have a (soon to be) finished basement with drywall/insulation/concrete walls and either a concrete or tile floor with an area rug. The room is about 425-450 sq feet and will be untreated. Am I correct in thinking that the 228Ht would be better for my space that my current t8-LP's? I'm wondering if it's worth the trip up to Wisconsin to hear them. Thanks for the help!
I believe the smaller dispersion pattern of the 228's would be an improvement over the T8's in an untreated room. However the LP's are more tolerant of being placed near walls with respect to mid bass. So who knows.
post #7272 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Here is a horrible thought that I can't get out of my head. How awesome would the 228's be as surrounds in here!! They would destroy my eD's and then some. Can't do it can't do it can't do it..... eek.gif
I think Jeff said that the 228's are not as good as surrounds as T8's where the 90 degree coverage is needed.
post #7273 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

So who knows.

Hopefully one of you guys! smile.gif
post #7274 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

I believe the smaller dispersion pattern of the 228's would be an improvement over the T8's in an untreated room. However the LP's are more tolerant of being placed near walls with respect to mid bass. So who knows.

I have the T8LP's as side surrounds and they are as firmly entrenched as my N212's . I had 2010 T8's there before and my slight preference for the LP's is more due to the upgraded CD rather than the Low Profile's boundary tolerance... I think ... tongue.gifwink.gif
post #7275 of 18477
Just got home from Carp's house. Wow, what a great treat it was to compare these two speakers. Thanks Carp for having us over.

Jonathan and I were both blind for the music portion of our test. We all took turns picking out music and switched seats a lot to really get a feel for both speakers. For the first set I could not tell what speakers were playing at all. Trust me I really tried to figure it out. The vocals were always centered with large sound stage. I really enjoyed (speaker a) and I could have listened to them all day.

They then switched them and during that time I became really nervous for speaker b. I was afraid that if they were the little ones then how could the big noesis sound better. And if they were the big ones how could the little ones sound that good. We'll we came back into the room it by the second song I was positive what I was hearing was the bigger noesis. Not that it was crazy better or crazy different. I've just heard the larger ones enough to know the way they sound.

The main difference to me is the larger ones seem more effortless. I'm sure they can play louder no problem. They do allow for airy effects and ambiance sounds to be more effective. They also give off a larger sound stage. I would be splitting hairs to say that either had any issues at all. I absolutely love both sets. If music is your focus neither would disappoint. However the large noesis do out shine the mini. The mini noesis are probably the best bang for the buck speakers out now. And the larger ones are worth the upgrade if you want the absolute best money can buy.

I personally use my theater for movies and games far more than I do for music. So for me I could definitely see the smaller noesis in my theater relatively soon.
post #7276 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

I think Jeff said that the 228's are not as good as surrounds as T8's where the 90 degree coverage is needed.

Yes but if I use them for side surrounds that wont matter since I only have 1 row right? Multi channel music would be off the charts!

Currently I listen to music in 2 channel almost all the time but sometimes I do use Dolby pro logic 2x. Since I've bought the Noesis I use the dimension setting on 3 which means much less sound is coming from the surrounds. If I buy the 228's as side surrounds I'm betting I would go back to 0 on the dimension like I used to have it set (and really liked)when I had the eD mains.


Edited by carp - 2/16/13 at 4:05pm
post #7277 of 18477
Oh and I'd save 400 dollars on the pair vs the 888's.
post #7278 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Yes but if I use them for side surrounds that wont matter since I only have 1 row right? Multi channel music would be off the charts!

Currently I listen to music in 2 channel almost all the time but sometimes I do use Dolby pro logic 2x. Since I've bought the Noesis I use the dimension setting on 3 which means much less sound is coming from the surrounds. If I buy the 228's as side surrounds I'm betting I would go back to 0 on the dimension like I used to have it set (and really liked)when I had the eD mains.


Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Oh and I'd save 400 dollars on the pair vs the 888's.
Sounds right on both points.
post #7279 of 18477
Thanks for the comments guys. You are lucky to have such a good group of guys in the area and we are lucky that you take the time to try out new products and post your impressions here. It really represents the best of what Forums and the web has to offer. Honest impressions from good people with no agenda except to have fun and learn.

This high performance HT audio stuff is addicting, isn't it ... biggrin.gifcool.gif
post #7280 of 18477
First my initial impressions of the 228HT after listening to them for a decent amount of time last night.

Excellent speaker - less of a treble bias than the 888 in my room and is a smoother sounding speaker than the 888, again my opinion. You can see in my signature pictures that my room is awfully reflective. I have no treatments and tile floor in a basement slab with two finished walls as external concrete walls. The 888 and my current eD Cinema 12's can be a bit bright, or even a bit harsh in my room - the eD Cinema 12 more than the JTR 888. But after my limited listening sessions on the 228HT I've detected none of that in my room. In fact the 228HT sounded a lot like I remember the Noesis 212HT sounding in my room. So I wrote carp and asked if he would be willing to host a face off between the big Noesis and the little Noesis at his place either this weekend or next. It's no real surprise that carp made his place available immediately! He also loves checking out new gear, and of course was curious in this new JTR line. So this morning I headed over to his place to meet up with stitch1 and mrsmithers - a couple local friends who also were curious about the 228HT. Thanks carp for hosting another little mini g2g. Your place rocks, as always!

As to the A/B testing -
As Stitch1 said, he and I were 'blind tested' in that we weren't to know which speaker was playing at which time. We could see the speakers, but the drivers weren't moving at the levels we blind auditioned on either pair and neither he nor I could physically tell from our listening positions or listening angle which pair was which, even when we tried. I truly didn't actually know which speaker was playing during this little testing. MrSmithers and carp setup the speakers, level matched ( wink.gif at carp ) and then let them play. We each chose a few songs of some of our favorite music clips and then swapped speakers. For music we used a 100hz crossover from the mains to his Seaton HP Submersive. For movies we used an 80hz crossover if I remember what carp said accurately.

The first speaker audition ended up being the 228HT, but I wasn't really sure which it was at the end of the demo session. I honestly thought there was a bit more treble bias than I expected to be the Noesis 212HT, but not as much as the eD Cinema 12 nor triple eight's that I've heard in carp's room before in a previous blind test. I got chills four times during the 228HT audition. I felt as though the imaging was some of the best I've heard. Vocals in the main listening position were focused dead pan in the middle, while acoustic instruments were directional and coming from left and right. I felt like the vocal sweet spot was very strong and very centered between the two channels - but it was confined to a pretty narrow seating area sweet spot. The seat immediately to the left of the MLP did not have the same focused center channel vocal effect. Stitch1 described the 228HT vocals as sitting right there in his lap while sitting in the MLP. Sitting immediately behind the MLP was a similar cool front center sound imaging effect. I was pretty impressed with this, and figured this probably was the big 212HT because carp has had a lot of time to dial them in, yet the very slight treble emphasis was not something I recognized for music in carp's Noesis and I've heard them a bunch before. I was confused at this point because I felt like the 228HT did not have a treble bias in my room at all, so I didn't think it would be them either. At the end of the first audition I really had no idea what we had just heard. I know from previous time spent with the Noesis 212HT, that they can give me as many chills as a walk in freezer. I'd discovered this several times, but not more clearly than at a previous blind meet in DesMoines that avsforum member dlbeck hosted. The fact that I get chills during an audition is always something I view as a positive, because it's not something that you can create - they must be earned, and are otherwise uncontrollable. However, despite the chills, at the end of speaker A audition I was pretty lost as to what was what.

We left the room and carp and MrSmithers wired up the second pair for the next audition and called stitch and I back down. We went through some of the same tracks and a a few new ones. I didn't get any chills the second audition, but I did feel the music was better overall and the audition more enjoyable. The soundstage was bigger. I didn't hear the focused center channel imaging from the MLP, but now rather the entire front wall was the stage. It wasn't too long before I really began to suspect the second audition was the Big Noesis, even though I found myself hoping it was the smaller pair. Audition B, felt less precise, less perfectly setup, but overall of higher quality. Both Stitch1 and I ended up guessing correctly, and we both cited the same characteristics that delivered that guess. - Airy sound on Audition B, HUGE sound stage, no strain at any volume level. (we didn't have a set volume, and during the first audition a couple of the songs sounded a bit too loud, or that we'd reached a comfortable listening level and didn't need to turn it up --- whereas the second audition I didn't hear that happen -- a couple times we got to +8.5 dB on the volume dial with both speakers - so this was not quiet reserved listening through the entirety. We listened at many different levels - from quiet to pounding.) I found a strange contradiction to my normal thinking - even though speaker A gave me chills four times, I found I liked Speaker B's music audition better. It was just less like a speaker audition and more like a live audio concert. The big reveal in that the second audition was the 212HT just confirmed that they are just something uniquely amazing for music, and remain my favorite speaker I've ever heard for music.

Now for something curious - - -

Movie auditions. We listened at about 3 different volumes to the same several clips. -10, -5, and reference, most clips were at -10dB. Each clip was listened to in stereo instead of DD or DTS since we didn't have a 228HT center channel. Honestly, I don't think I could tell a difference between the two speakers for movies. Even the AC/DC song on the IronMan Clip sounded fantastic on both speakers to my ears at reference levels. For the movie clips I sat in the seat immediately to the left of the MLP. I'd have to imagine that as the volume increases to well beyond reference the characteristics of maximum clean dynamic playback might be noticed on the 228HT before the 212HT - but we didn't take the volume on the movie section high enough to get to any limitation on either speaker at reference playback levels. The fact the 228HT went toe to toe with the 212HT in movies, a speaker costing 2x's, and my personal favorite speaker ever --- was just plain excellent!

Now here's the quandary I find myself in.
1) I think spending $3K is crazy on a front LCR main speaker soundstage (I've always been a bass head and don't have a problem spending $3k on subs.) However, after spending some time with the Noesis 212HT in my own room, as well as auditioning them at five different meets (PA, NE, IA, MO, KS) - I've found I love the 212HT Noesis so much that I've changed my views on how much a good set of speakers matters, and what is rational to spend on a set of good speakers. Perhaps the reason I don't own the Noesis 212HT right now is that I couldn't up and change my long held principles on max speaker budget as quickly as could carp. (carp decided the first day he heard the Noesis - cost be darned - he wanted them. --- I envy him, in a carefree way tongue.gif )
2) The Noesis 212HT are, IMO, standalone as the best overall speaker that I've ever heard. The Noesis 228HT are the second best speaker I've ever had in my room, but not necessarily the second best speaker I've ever heard (they have to contend with the Seaton Catalyst line, Desertdome's LS6 and Brausch's DIY Statement speakers, and I'd have to hear these all in one room, same conditions, same day to pick a victor! Now the gotcha is that all of these other secondary options are significantly more expensive than the 228HT. So price to performance I think the 228HT definitely holds a golden crown.
3) If I'm crazy enough to spend ~$3ish K (intro price) on a front soundstage, am I crazy not to spend ~$6ish K on something that is the best I've ever heard? Is the old adage spend once, cry once true? Is it worth saving for another full year to get the 212HT? Are the 212HT twice as good? No! Am I someone who always thinks about a purchase and wonders what if? Yes! I'm going to spend some additional time with these speakers and get them really setup correctly in my theater (I've not even run Audyssey on them yet to set distances and dB levels) and then going to sleep on my decision for a while. I suppose if I don't keep these 228HT - the Noesis 212HT are most likely in my future! Oddly the 212HT pricepoint, is just not anything I'd ever thought I'd consider, but then again their quality is something I never knew I'd encounter. The fact that the Noesis 228HT sounded identical to my ears for movie use to the Noesis 212HT in A/B testing makes the idea of spending double on the 212HT a hard swallow for a budget conscious enthusiast, on the other hand, I can see where the Noesis 212HT would be worth double the price for someone who heavily favors music use (as carp will attest). In pursuit of "BEST" you'd better be prepared to pay. Where will I fall out on this quandary? Time will tell. Funny enough - Stitch1, my fellow blind auditioner, said that if I decided against keeping the 228HT, I didn't have to send them back to JTR, he said he wants them. tongue.gif



The simple summary of this whole matter is that Jeff hit a homerun with the 228HT, it is probably the best speaker for the money on the market today. With a intro price of $999, anyone who values quality movie and music reproduction should take a long hard look at this offering!
post #7281 of 18477
I am going for the 228. I am glad I waited a bit longer. My room is a living room and reflective and open up to large area, so 228 seems perfect for me. I hope to get mine in march!
post #7282 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

I am going for the 228. I am glad I waited a bit longer. My room is a living room and reflective and open up to large area, so 228 seems perfect for me. I hope to get mine in march!

I am right there with you - 14' X 14' Living room with right side open to a Kitchen and dinning area that is almost twice as large. I think the 228s for LCR will be perfect fit and at a super price. Add a couple of T8LPs for surrounds, a pair of S8LPs for heights and an S2 and I will be set...at least until I start thinking about the 212's:eek:
post #7283 of 18477
These darn Noesis 228HT sound soooooo good in my room tonight.

Jesse Cook - Querido Amigo

sounds like the Band is here in the room with me!
post #7284 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

These darn Noesis 228HT sound soooooo good in my room tonight.

Jesse Cook - Querido Amigo

sounds like the Band is here in the room with me!

Stop it ...you're killing me tongue.gif
post #7285 of 18477
Seeing how I use my theater room for zero music I think I'm going to jump on the pre-order pricing and get the 228ht for my LCR set up! Thanks for the great write up Archaea! I would love to go with the 212hts but in my 2100cubic/ft theater and only movie use it would most likely be over kill.
post #7286 of 18477
Everyone's impressions sent me over the edge. I sent an email to Jeff to order the 228 LCR and whatever will be the best visual an sonic match to my 2010 T8's as a 4th surround. I know the T8's are overkill for surrounds, but I will now be able to shut off the what if voice in my head for good.
post #7287 of 18477
I'm late to the review party, I felt similar to what the other three guys had to say. Thanks to carp for having us over (again) and to Archaea for bringing the speakers by.

I was helping carp switch and set up the speakers for the testing, so I wasn't blind in any way. I'd like to pretend I'm ever biased about anything ever wink.gif but keep that in mind.

In retrospect, although carp and I weren't sure which order we should demo them, I'm glad we did the little Noesis first. Basically as soon as the audition started, I detected a very familiar sound pattern. I was trying to put myself in the position of a blind listener as much as possible. I've heard the Noesis in two different locations and in carp's room many times. What I heard had a very similar sound to the Noesis, it certainly seemed that they were spec'd and voiced by the same person. During the audition we varied volume levels fairly considerably and I got chills on several occasions. I tried to throw on a lot of music with female vocals, both because I listen to a decent amount so it's important to me, as well as I feel that female vocals are a little more unforgiving than male vocals and some of the instruments. These didn't disappoint, I thought Kelly Sweet sounded fantastic in the Dream On chorus, we also listened to some Nightwish, WIthin Temptation, Sophie Barker w/Zero 7, and others. The build up and explosive intro to "Money For Nothing" by Dire Straits sounded fantastic. "Everything In It's Right Place" by Radiohead is another go-to demo song for me, sound was fantastic, with everything going on the speakers never had any kind of muddy sound, all the different instrumentations and layers stayed separate and distinct. I, like Jonathan, have some kind of treble sensitivity. I detected a little of that I think twice during this audition, but both times I thought the recording and volume level bore a majority of the blame with perhaps only some falling on the speakers.

The big Noesis are, well, just more of everything. I've reviewed them at least once before in this thread. They're the best speaker I've ever heard for both music and movies. They have a silky smooth sound which is engrossing, seemingly limitless and effortless, fantastic imaging, soundstage is great, etc. There's not much more to say there.

In conclusion, I thought the 228's were fantastic. My impression of them was that they really were the little Noesis, similar in characteristic, only scaled appropriately. In the speaker world once you get to the level of either of these guys, gains cost a nonlinear amount of money, and I felt that was true here. Remember, the 1.4" coaxial CD in the Noesis has a street price that is about 70% of Jeff's intro pricing for the 228's. I definitely think the 228's would vastly outperform the little 1.4" CD with like, a box built around it biggrin.gif. Audio memory being what it is, I also like the 228's far better than what I remember about the 888's for music. However, there IS a difference between the Noesis and the 228's for music, the question for each individual is is it worth it given your demands and budget. The two were so similar for movies that, unless your pockets are limitless or you just really want to hear 135dB dialogue in your room I couldn't recommend the big Noesis, if I were a movies-only type person the 228's would be a very easy call. For music, as I said, it's more about your budget and goals. I do NOT think the big Noesis are over twice as good, as I said, I think cost gets fairly non-linear at these performance levels. However, the big Noesis, to me, was clearly and unmistakably superior. The big takeaway here is that Jeff has two winners that should satisfy an awful lot of folks who are in one of these two price points and looking for an excellent speaker for HT and audio reproduction. Also if you want there to be a chance that you ever see your woofers move at all, the 228 is a clear winner, we got them rockin' pretty good whereas the Noesis seem to almost never visibly move tongue.gif

For myself, I'm likely going to try to change plans to use the 1" BMS compression driver that the 228's use in my next speaker build. I thought it was noticeably smoother than the other 1" CDs that I've heard. No doubt part of that is due to Jeff's work on the crossover and the design, but I was impressed enough that I definitely want to give it a go. Great work Jeff!
post #7288 of 18477
Hot damn that seems like a good price for the 228. Trying really hard to stop myself from buying them...
post #7289 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Hot damn that seems like a good price for the 228. Trying really hard to stop myself from buying them...

Why resist? Just go with it, in the end it'll make things a lot easier on you! biggrin.gif
post #7290 of 18477
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Why resist? Just go with it, in the end it'll make things a lot easier on you! biggrin.gif

Would have to sell my current speakers...and that's kind of hard considering I'm one of the VERY few people here on AVS who have speakers that were accidently lit on fire...

Going to have to put that in the description on the classifieds...lol
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Speakers
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › Official JTR speaker thread