Official JTR speaker thread - Page 252

That is a really good idea Mark and I wish I had seen this before I drilled holes in my Slanted 8 Heights for the speaker mounts. Also, your solution makes disconnecting them much easier.

BTW, and just in case anyone was wondering, my mounting holes for the heights were not drilled through the cabinet wall, just into it.

Anyone know how much of a difference the Slanted 8's from 2009 or 2010 would be compared to the newer models? And just once again, these will be used as the rears/surrounds in my 5.2 setup. There are a couple pairs of older models but I'm wondering if paying extra for newer models would make any real difference for the surrounds.

At some point around 2009 or 2010, Jeff updated the S8's. The frequency response went from 100 Hz-18 kHz to 80 Hz-20 kHz or something like that. I do not know the exact point that the change was made or how much difference there would be in actual performance as surrounds.

I am still using my 2010 Slanted 8s as surround backs/heights and there are no issues. I even used one of them as the center channel with the Triple8 LP's as mains while i was waiting for the Noesis 212's and I was amazed how good the Slanted 8 sounded for the all important CC duty. Dialog clarity was really good. The only issue was (and this should be obvious) that they would not play as loud as the T12's. Again, at my normal movie watching volume (approx -7 to -10db ref) the combo presented a very good front soundstage so for surround duty they will be and are excellent.

Just had a great demo on the noesis228 at archaea's place which ended on a perfect scene popping all the breakers in his basement! Nothing like getting extremely crazy with sub gain, transducer gain, and +8.5 db on the main volume on art of flight! Carp would have been proud of you Jonathan!

So now that you are one of a handful of people to have heard both versions of the Noesis, can you give us more detail about what you thought of them, both comparisons between the 2 and what you thought of the speakers in general?

Good lord Jonathan, I thought only the Orbit Shifter was capable of tripping your 20 amp lines!! Crap, should I have run 2 30 amp lines down here instead of 20?!?!?!

At any rate, sounds like you guys had a good time while I was slaving away on sub building duty.

If he says he liked the little guys better I say it's irrelevant since he didn't hear them in the same room. If he likes the big boys better, then so let it be written so let it be done - case closed.

I will give a comparison in my opinion when I go back once Jonathan gets his center and I spend a little more time there. Wasn't there for very long tonight since I brought a friend with me.

ha...nice carp. you make me laugh.




Yeah we blew two 20 amp breakers tonight. First time since the orbit shfiters in my room.

Both popped at the same time. One that projector, sump, and crown xls-5000 is on, one that the rest of my gear is on.

There was quite a bit of draw. An INuke DSP3000 on the transducers, a crown xls202 on the 228HT, onkyo TX-NR1007 receiver, mic2200, and PS3.

And then the Crown XLS-5000 and 2200VA UPS mated to projector and sump pump on the other.

Both circuits tripped at 8.5dB above reference on art of flight. I had to try to keep up with you carp.

Scrappydue, you know what's funny. You guys liked the transducers I understood, the next visitor, who made it over about 5 minutes after you left, by the name of Tony - avsforum handle cowboys - disliked the transucers and asked me to turn them off shortly after turning them on. We didn't get quite as crazy for his demo session because it was getting late.

My wife told me after you guys left that the girls were crying at two points during the demo session because we were so loud down there and the floor was moving upstairs so much. (4 and 1 years old). Ha. I mean - whoops!

Edit:

When I went upstairs at one point during cowboys visit - my 4 year old Daughter said daddy daddy daddy, the floor is moving, are you done yet?



I need a concrete underground bunker/lair.
Edited by Archaea - 3/5/13 at 7:33am

Don't leave us hanging too long. My 228's won't ship for at least another 2 weeks. I need to live vicariously through other listeners in the meantime.

I think cowboys might have been more impressed with the 228ht than the caps? That's just backwards to me!

Does Cowboys have a suspended wood floor and a sub? That could be why.

Or, are you saying he liked both but liked the 228's better?

Yes both of the guys have suspended wooden floors that demoed. I relayed the difference between suspended wooden floors and basement slab can not be underestimated.

Yeah the subs were very impressive. The shear output did not surprise me as I know what an 18inch driver can do compared to a 13 inch one. However the wind chill dropping 10 degrees every scene was a shock. I had to borrow a blanket from Jonathan to keep warm during the remainder of the demo . I had a great time and look forward to doing a little more meticulous listening when my I go without my buddy and I am concentrating more in mains instead of subs and transducers. Jonathan you let me know a night and ill come back up so I can write a mini review on my thoughts of the noesis 228's. and next time I do wanna hear a scene at reference upstairs with the girls so I can cry too!

Are you going to bring your Klipsch to compare?

Yes both groups noticed the air jet wind effect, one of the effects I particularly like about powerful ported subs. If an explosion is occurring on screen,feeling some air disturbance aligns well with what my brain expects. I'm sure most of the JTR fans have seen it by now but this is the effect in my room. I look forward to hearing how your Klipsch sound off compared to the Noesis. I've not heard the top shelf Klipsch speakers you own yet so that'll be cool!


Edited by Archaea - 3/5/13 at 7:27am

Cowboys has owned and heard a LOT of super high end gear. I hope he will comment, good bad,or ugly the thread. I pmed him to do so and I hope he'll be brutally honest.

The same effect can be had on concrete floors if laminated wood (also know as a floating floor) is installed over it. I would assume the cheaper the quality the more it would rattle and the better/heavier quality the more control one would have.
Chris

Archaea,

I have a couple of questions, since I am also on a concrete slab. Are you talking about the bass shaking the floor, causing you to feel like the bass is more powerful? How much do the transducers make up for this lack of tactile feedback and does it seem artificial? Does having the subs on a concrete slab instead of a suspended wood floor have the effect of limiting the rattling in the room so that the bass feels less distorted?

Jedirun,
Yes, on a suspended wooden floor there is a lot more tactile sense of bass frequencies than on a concrete slab. LOT more. Transducers, at least the buttkickers don't feel perfectly similar to bass, but it's an enjoyable sensation, and sort of helps bridge the gap for those of us who have the slabs. As to how realistic it is -- well I had three avsforum guys visit last night. 1 liked the effect, 1 loved the effect, 1 disliked the effect. I myself probably am in the "like" effect category - not love because it's a bit artificial, but it's enjoyable enough that I usually use it for movies and turn it off. Setting the distance on the AVR, or adding the appropriate time delay makes a WORLD of difference to how real, synched it is with the actual bass. Also setting the levels appropriate to the bass from the sub is key. I don't want the transducer shaking me around like an off balance washing machine when the subs are set low --- it just feels really wrong.

Some would probably say that having the subs on a concrete slab would limit distortion - but I've found my room's drywall, doors, fireplace, power junction box, etc rattles so bad at high levels that I'm not sure how much worse it could be with a suspended floor. I guarantee my suspended floor above me is rattling anyway --- or at least heaving in waves ---- enough to make the kids cry last night, and my daughter comment on it. --- I wonder how the guys with like eight 18" subs are going to keep their drywall from falling off?

First of all, let me say thanks to Archeae for spending all of his evening time demoing/talking about subs/speakers/measuring equipment, etc... I was very impressed with his whole system. I came mainly for the Caps demo but since he got his new 228's, that was a big plus. Like Carp said, I was more surprised/impressed with the 228's than the Caps. I guest knowing the Caps are the beast of subs, I expected so walking in his room. The 228 on the other hand, I have not heard or even read about them and it caught me by surprise how well it did for both movie and music. They throw a big sound stage with excellent image and not bright at all (just right). I was just expecting great dynamic from them being 98dbs speakers but they are more than just dynamic. His front soundstage was very full with both music and movie. They sound like his whole front wall was producing music with vocal being pin point at the center and we were listening to some musics with just 2 channel stereo. Of course the duals Caps complimented the 228's well for the low notes. Up to last night, I have only heard how well the Caps perform from all the GTGs. Now I know why- they are truly a beast of subs. I had Archeae running one Cap to compare with dual. Let me put it this way, I have not heard dual subs set up before but only heard about folks here always recommend dual or even more, I am now starting to save money for a second Rythmik FV15HP. I was able to localize the bass with one sub and not with dual. His whole room was just filling with deep loud bass as they seem to come from everywhere in his room. We were listening at reference level with 6dbs hot on subs (I believe) and his left side wall were shaking- not just shaking, it actually moved when I had my hand on that wall- feel like a quarter of an inch excursion from his wall. I did hear a booming sound from the Caps during one of the scene (don't remember which one as we demoed lots of heavy bass scenes). Archeae heard it too and we were trying to see if the they came from the driver and it didn't seem to be. Not sure what it was but definitely some boomy bad sound.
The 228's are not quite sexy as compared to some of other high end brands within the same price range like B&W, Vienna Acoustic, or JM Lab but performance wise, the 228's sound better especially with movie playing at reference level. If it can pass the WAF for $1k each, the 228's all the way.
Carp, be on the look out on my PM as I am heading your way the week of 5/20 (if you are willing to show of course) to audition your bad *ss system with eight 18"s and the 212's.

Cowboys, of course man!! I love having people over for demos.

I don't yet have a solution for this.

Great mini write up Cowboy. I know exactly what you mean about localizing bass from a single sub, some times I play around with my XS30's and switch one off and just have the other one running. With a single there's still great output but you can kind of tell that its coming from the corner of the sub thats on. When both running while sitting in my room, when you close your eyes you can't hear where the bass is coming from. Its just all around you.

Man reading your mini reviews really has me excited to buy the new 228HTs.

do it now before price goes up. What are currently running?

Thanks Carp. I will be in the Topeka area from Monday 5/20 to Thursday 5/23 for work. I can swing by your place any day after 6pm. Not sure how far out you are to Topeka but I will make it happens depending on your availability.

No I already talked to Jeff at JTR, he said if I order them on the 15th of March I'd get the sale price. So right now I have two pairs of Axiom QS8's as my surrounds and i have JBL Northridge E80 towers and EC35 center and then the dual XS30 subs. It's been a slow upgrate for my audio stuff, and I'll be re-doing the front of my theater room with building a front stage and false wall and putting everything behind the wall and AT screen.
As old as the JBL's are they still sound pretty decent for HT use, but I'm pretty sure I'll be blown away by the 228HT's.

False wall- Very nice and clean. Planning to do that myself.