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Official JTR speaker thread - Page 269

post #8041 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Lammer View Post

Am I insane for running my JTR T12 L-C-R on "lowly" receiver power ??? -> Yamaha RX-A3010

I am just finishing off my HT "rebuild" with JVC RS65 and 136" wide HiPower screen, and a new front wall to hide all my front speakers underneath.
2012 JTR T12 for L-C-R,
2010 JTR Slant-8 pair for front height channels ( but not yet installed )
Along with 4 x Theil Powerplane 1.2 for surrounds -> got them very cheap and fantastic build quality
And a pair of Submersive-HP subs, and another pair sitting in my garage ( snagged yesterday from local seller )

So last weekend after finally mounting my Thiel surrounds, for the very first time I actually listen to a music CD in my HT rig.
I grabbed Eagles "Hells Freezes Over" -> put the Yamaha on Prologic-2-Music, and was absolutely blown away !
How can this sound so good on just a receiver ?!?!

FWIW I have owned many top multi-channel amps:
Sim Audio Titan-7 & Titan-5, EAD PM2000, Cinepro 3K6SE-Gold, most every Bryston combo, 7-channel x 1000ASP ICEpower amps, etc.
And for Pre-Pro ( pre-HDMI ) I have owned:
Classe SSP-600, EAD 8800-Pro, Bel Canto PrePro-Gen2, Proceed AVP2, and many others.

I am shocked at the sound quality I am getting out of a lowly Panasonic Blu-Ray mated to a Yamaha Receiver.
My inner voice says go buy a Marantz AV-8801 and a Classe amp, but how much better do I need ???

All rhetorical questions above biggrin.gif
Merely observations of the benefits of having high sensitivity speakers and killer subs !

- Andy


Welcome to the "Quad" club.
post #8042 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

on the verge of order 3 noesis212 hts soon with 6 single8's in the pipeline.
That should be pretty amazing. What subs are you using?
post #8043 of 18545
Y'all must be keeping Jeff really busy. I can't even get him to send an estimate/invoice for a pair of S8-LPs. Took over a year, but I'm finally rounding out my JTR system with some surrounds smile.gif
post #8044 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

on the verge of order 3 noesis212 hts soon with 6 single8's in the pipeline.

Awesome! I am sure you will love them.
post #8045 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

That should be pretty amazing. What subs are you using?
dual danley dts-10s for now, they seem to work well enough, no urge to upgrade from those yet, although i still have 4 boxed up aurasound ns-18s i never sold or built.
post #8046 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by VEXXD View Post

Y'all must be keeping Jeff really busy. I can't even get him to send an estimate/invoice for a pair of S8-LPs. Took over a year, but I'm finally rounding out my JTR system with some surrounds smile.gif

Have you tried calling him?
post #8047 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

odd - I've run audyssey 3x and measured with omnimic - my 228's fall off at just under 70hz. Audyssey always sets mine to 70hz. Must be a difference in rooms - placement etc. My eD cinema 12s were always set to 120 or 150hz by Audyssey in the exact same placements.

that's a good point. Maybe I should measure it with REW. I did try changing it to 80Hz and the REW graph looks like the same. Is it safe to say that it is OK?? (I know I should not set it lower than what Audyssey report to as I could be losing that frequency range)...
post #8048 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

that's a good point. Maybe I should measure it with REW. I did try changing it to 80Hz and the REW graph looks like the same. Is it safe to say that it is OK?? (I know I should not set it lower than what Audyssey report to as I could be losing that frequency range)...
I think that if you set it lower than Audyssey, it turns of eq for that channel. I would consider running Audyssey again after trying to figure out what caused the drop in frequency response.
post #8049 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


If you approach it with the "I will be surprised if it makes a difference" way of thinking then it will make it more difficult to tell/hear. Try using the amp for 30 days straight under your normal listening conditions, not Normal but Carps Normal:). After the 30 days remove the amp and listen over the next week to see if you miss the amp. If not then it was not needed to begin with. If So then you don't know what you got till its gone.wink.gif
I don't know that adding the amp will help you hear something different but I believe taking it away once your used to it will be noticed.
Just a 2 cent thought.biggrin.gif
Chris

Good idea Chris, I borrowed a Crown and a inuke 3000 from Archaea yesterday and plan on hooking them up as soon as my ears return to normal after yesterday's GTG. I'm going to do some blind testing too, but I do like your idea of keeping the amp(s) in for awhile and getting used to it and then taking it out.
post #8050 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Good idea Chris, I borrowed a Crown and a inuke 3000 from Archaea yesterday and plan on hooking them up as soon as my ears return to normal after yesterday's GTG. I'm going to do some blind testing too, but I do like your idea of keeping the amp(s) in for awhile and getting used to it and then taking it out.

I agree with Chris re the test and I think you will find that having more power on reserve has it's benefits. Along those lines, I had an AVS'er Cory (doublewing11) and his wife over for a demo yesterday. When I say over, I mean they drove 8 hours each way to hear the Noesis. He is building an amazing Erskine designed theater in Oregon and needs to make the speaker call asap so they made the very long trek to hear my humble (by comparison) little system.

First let me say they are great people and perhaps I am just lucky, but I have met some very nice people in this hobby. We did some music and then progressed into movie demos from the Scuba Steve bluray. After pummeling his poor wife with the full JTR sound (Cory specifically wanted to assess the dynamic capabilities) on movie demos, I put on Art of Flight and pushed the pedal down hard ... I recall +17 ref flashing on the screen and looked over to see his wife covering her ears and Cory grinning. What is it with us males that we like that kind of power? I guess it's like hearing an F18 take off or a train locomotive, dragster or whatever. Just a massage of the internal (as opposed to the external tongue.gif) organs I suppose.

In any case, he seemed to really enjoy the experience and she was a trouper and survived wink.gif. He seems to be contemplating the Noesis LCR's and either OS's or S2's and If he ends up going in that direction, it will be with some caveats from his lovely wife (ie never play the system that loud). Unfortunately, that is like telling someone who buys a Lamborghini to never drive it over 100 mph. Clearly not something you do every day, but there will come a time when you just have to see what she will do... biggrin.gif
post #8051 of 18545
Once again, I'd like to thank RMK! ie. Rob for opening his home to allow me to audition his Noesis 212's. The 10 hour drive each way was well worth it taking into consideration meeting three wonderful hosts and of course tri-tip steak lunch. smile.gif

My thoughts and topics of conversation with my wife on our 10 hour journey home after our visit at RMK's :

1) Horn Subs are on another planet.....................two Orbital Shifters are a must hear/feel. The output is a given, but how articulate the pair were was shocking. Currently trying to figure a way to add another 20 amp circuit to my front wall which has already been sealed and sound proofed.

2) I hope I didn't make a mistake ordering the vpl-hw Sony 1000............my wife was impressed with the vpl-hw50 and stated, "How can you get a better picture than that." I'm keeping my fingers crossed she doesn't kick me for purchasing the Sony 1000 when she finally sees the 1000 in action.

3) The main reason for my visit to RMK's theater was to audition the Noesis 212's. Here are my thoughts:

I've spent the greater part of almost 2.5 years trying to find the "best" speaker for my soon to be completed theater. In that quest, I've failed miserably. I've found many speakers from varying manufacturers which I absolutely loved yet those speakers could not deliver all the goods. For example, I love the sound of ribbon designed speakers for low to moderate level listening, but for high dynamics.......the proverbial fail! I've also had the chance to listen to a few speaker designs with huge dynamics but sounded harsh at levels. I'm still looking for speakers that can do both................but have come to the conclusion they don't exist.

Are the Noesis 212's one of my favorite musical speakers? No..............

Are the Noesis 212's one of the best dynamic speakers I've listened to? Yes.......and no.

To explain, I've now had a chance to audition and compare the Noesis 212's to a PHC/Proaudio Technology system I heard more than a year ago and can honestly place the two in the same league. Both are horn loaded and have the same signature sound ie. clarity and dynamics. The only differences are the Proaudio Tech system has integrated DSP amps, are bi-amped, and cost 8-10 times more than a complete JTR Noesis system. Owning a Proaudio Technology system places you in the same company of Saudi Princes and of course, the infamous "Tom Cruise". To be honest.........RMK's system sounded as good or slightly better than a PHC/Proaudio Tech speaker system IMHO.

Well......... that leaves me with a decision on how to compromise...............I can give a little in resolution at low levels, but i just don't want to give up dynamics in my newly constructed dedicated theater. Therefore, I've decided to purchase Noesis 212 speakers and hope for the best. My conclusion has been based on two years of auditioning many different speaker systems which I find the JTR Noesis an all round performer on both music and movies. Not the best for low level music, but acceptable....................for theater, definitely one of the best speakers I've heard and my ear's gladly accepted Rob's challenge of ear bleeding listening levels. Funny thing, not once did my ears cry "uncle" which was a huge shock to me!

Once again Rob THANKS! The visit was well worth it!
post #8052 of 18545
Cory I'm curious to know if you every considered speakers from Seaton if you were looking into active speakers from PHC/Proaudio Tech?
I think you've made a great choice going with the Noesis 212HT's by the way, what are you going to do for surrounds?
post #8053 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Cory I'm curious to know if you every considered speakers from Seaton if you were looking into active speakers from PHC/Proaudio Tech?
I think you've made a great choice going with the Noesis 212HT's by the way, what are you going to do for surrounds?

Seaton's have not even been considered............they are active, while the PHC/Proaudio Tech use rack mounted DSP amps.......a huge difference. Trying to keep heat/amps out of the room. I'd like to use rack mounted amps for subs, but have given up on the idea.

JTR surrounds will not work due to column depth.....besides, I do have a 10 db window concerning surrounds and will be using 6 Triad Silver LCR's for surrounds which have a sensitivity of 92db/1w/1m.

Two pair for side surrounds and one pair for rears.
post #8054 of 18545
Was there a reason why you never considered Seaton Cat12's
post #8055 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

Once again, I'd like to thank RMK! ie. Rob for opening his home to allow me to audition his Noesis 212's. The 10 hour drive each way was well worth it taking into consideration meeting three wonderful hosts and of course tri-tip steak lunch. smile.gif

My thoughts and topics of conversation with my wife on our 10 hour journey home after our visit at RMK's :

1) Horn Subs are on another planet.....................two Orbital Shifters are a must hear/feel. The output is a given, but how articulate the pair were was shocking. Currently trying to figure a way to add another 20 amp circuit to my front wall which has already been sealed and sound proofed.

2) I hope I didn't make a mistake ordering the vpl-hw Sony 1000............my wife was impressed with the vpl-hw50 and stated, "How can you get a better picture than that." I'm keeping my fingers crossed she doesn't kick me for purchasing the Sony 1000 when she finally sees the 1000 in action.

3) The main reason for my visit to RMK's theater was to audition the Noesis 212's. Here are my thoughts:

I've spent the greater part of almost 2.5 years trying to find the "best" speaker for my soon to be completed theater. In that quest, I've failed miserably. I've found many speakers from varying manufacturers which I absolutely loved yet those speakers could not deliver all the goods. For example, I love the sound of ribbon designed speakers for low to moderate level listening, but for high dynamics.......the proverbial fail! I've also had the chance to listen to a few speaker designs with huge dynamics but sounded harsh at levels. I'm still looking for speakers that can do both................but have come to the conclusion they don't exist.

Are the Noesis 212's one of my favorite musical speakers? No..............

Are the Noesis 212's one of the best dynamic speakers I've listened to? Yes.......and no.

To explain, I've now had a chance to audition and compare the Noesis 212's to a PHC/Proaudio Technology system I heard more than a year ago and can honestly place the two in the same league. Both are horn loaded and have the same signature sound ie. clarity and dynamics. The only differences are the Proaudio Tech system has integrated DSP amps, are bi-amped, and cost 8-10 times more than a complete JTR Noesis system. Owning a Proaudio Technology system places you in the same company of Saudi Princes and of course, the infamous "Tom Cruise". To be honest.........RMK's system sounded as good or slightly better than a PHC/Proaudio Tech speaker system IMHO.

Well......... that leaves me with a decision on how to compromise...............I can give a little in resolution at low levels, but i just don't want to give up dynamics in my newly constructed dedicated theater. Therefore, I've decided to purchase Noesis 212 speakers and hope for the best. My conclusion has been based on two years of auditioning many different speaker systems which I find the JTR Noesis an all round performer on both music and movies. Not the best for low level music, but acceptable....................for theater, definitely one of the best speakers I've heard and my ear's gladly accepted Rob's challenge of ear bleeding listening levels. Funny thing, not once did my ears cry "uncle" which was a huge shock to me!

Once again Rob THANKS! The visit was well worth it!

You are very welcome Cory and I'm glad you and Marilyn made it home safe and sound. I'm also glad you reminded me of the PHC system name as I was wondering what that system was called. Just checked out their site and they make some impressive looking kit cool.gif.

I think with a little better placement (the CD slightly lower than mine) you may get a bit more musicality out of the Noesis at moderate levels in the sweet spot. Your visit has me thinking about how I could drop them down 6" or so so the my seated ear height is dead center with the horn's center. Moving the OS's or placing the Noesis horizontal seem to be my only options. Funny how we keep searching for that last 5% ... smile.gif

Great meeting you guys and I hope I get a chance to hear your system some day.
post #8056 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

You are very welcome Cory and I'm glad you and Marilyn made it home safe and sound. I'm also glad you reminded me of the PHC system name as I was wondering what that system was called. Just checked out their site and they make some impressive looking kit cool.gif.

I think with a little better placement (the CD slightly lower than mine) you may get a bit more musicality out of the Noesis at moderate levels in the sweet spot. Your visit has me thinking about how I could drop them down 6" or so so the my seated ear height is dead center with the horn's center. Moving the OS's or placing the Noesis horizontal seem to be my only options. Funny how we keep searching for that last 5% ... smile.gif
Rob, if I remember correctly, you already have the 212's angled down slightly to point the CD at your ears. Could you just angle them a little more rather than changing the whole configuration, or is there something more that would be gained by keeping them horizontal and moving them down?
post #8057 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

Well......... that leaves me with a decision on how to compromise...............I can give a little in resolution at low levels, but i just don't want to give up dynamics in my newly constructed dedicated theater. Therefore, I've decided to purchase Noesis 212 speakers and hope for the best. My conclusion has been based on two years of auditioning many different speaker systems which I find the JTR Noesis an all round performer on both music and movies. Not the best for low level music, but acceptable....................for theater, definitely one of the best speakers I've heard and my ear's gladly accepted Rob's challenge of ear bleeding listening levels. Funny thing, not once did my ears cry "uncle" which was a huge shock to me!

You may ultimately be surprised by the dynamics and clarity at lower volumes once you have them in your system. I know I was. Most people associate JTR's stuff to be nothing more then a blunt instrument, designed to pummel you into submission. They excel at that, as everyone who's experienced them first hand will attest to, but their high efficiency lends them self to resolution at "normal" levels. They do produce subtilties with surprising grace.

I've heard the 212 in person - with Jeff at the controls - and that man loves volume, so there was certainly plenty of that. But at more rational levels the detail was still evident, more so then I anticipated. Once you have them in your environment, and tuned to your preference, you may find they offer more then brute force.
post #8058 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

Rob, if I remember correctly, you already have the 212's angled down slightly to point the CD at your ears. Could you just angle them a little more rather than changing the whole configuration, or is there something more that would be gained by keeping them horizontal and moving them down?

You remember correctly but I changed that with my most recent re-config of the front end. I brought the Noesis forward and eliminated the down angle thinking it might have a negative impact on the back row (always thinking of others wink.gif). I would like to experiment with them a bit lower and I am working out a plan ... smile.gif
Edited by RMK! - 4/28/13 at 11:04pm
post #8059 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Lammer View Post

Am I insane for running my JTR T12 L-C-R on "lowly" receiver power ??? -> Yamaha RX-A3010

I am just finishing off my HT "rebuild" with JVC RS65 and 136" wide HiPower screen, and a new front wall to hide all my front speakers underneath.
2012 JTR T12 for L-C-R,
2010 JTR Slant-8 pair for front height channels ( but not yet installed )
Along with 4 x Theil Powerplane 1.2 for surrounds -> got them very cheap and fantastic build quality
And a pair of Submersive-HP subs, and another pair sitting in my garage ( snagged yesterday from local seller )

So last weekend after finally mounting my Thiel surrounds, for the very first time I actually listen to a music CD in my HT rig.
I grabbed Eagles "Hells Freezes Over" -> put the Yamaha on Prologic-2-Music, and was absolutely blown away !
How can this sound so good on just a receiver ?!?!

FWIW I have owned many top multi-channel amps:
Sim Audio Titan-7 & Titan-5, EAD PM2000, Cinepro 3K6SE-Gold, most every Bryston combo, 7-channel x 1000ASP ICEpower amps, etc.
And for Pre-Pro ( pre-HDMI ) I have owned:
Classe SSP-600, EAD 8800-Pro, Bel Canto PrePro-Gen2, Proceed AVP2, and many others.

I am shocked at the sound quality I am getting out of a lowly Panasonic Blu-Ray mated to a Yamaha Receiver.
My inner voice says go buy a Marantz AV-8801 and a Classe amp, but how much better do I need ???

All rhetorical questions above biggrin.gif
Merely observations of the benefits of having high sensitivity speakers and killer subs !

- Andy

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Damn Andy, that's an amazing system - triple 12's and quad Submersives - wow. cool.gif

Soon I'm going to try out a couple of amps with my JTR's and see if I can really tell a difference. I'd be surprised, it sounds so good with just a receiver and I've never heard a hint of strain. I give in long before the speakers do.

It's one of those things that I just have to try though or it will drive me nuts not knowing for sure. That and some guys on the forum swear the difference is obvious at very loud volumes.

Great minds think alike, as I also have Quad SubMersive HP's, but T12's ONLY in the L, C, R locations? Amatuer... smile.giftongue.gif

Sorry, but I could not resist. The Noesis fever has reduced the ability to restrain myself.

Mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

I just wanted to share my somewhat crude implementation of a Slanted 8 mounting solution for the height channel speakers. I used some OSB I had scraps of and built a triangular shaped bracket that is screwed into the ceiling, and the Slanted 8 is hanging off of that bracket. They actually look pretty cool from the front, as they appear to be floating in the air.


In case anyone is wondering, those are 2011 Triple 12HT-LP's in the L, C, R, Wides and Surround locations. I have some close-up pictures of the T12 drivers if anyone is interested in seeing them. Perhaps they have been posted here before already.


Mark
LL

LL

LL

LL

LL
post #8060 of 18545
Mark
7 T12HT-LPs, 4 Slanted 8s, and 4 SubM HPs is every bit as Bada$$ now as it was when you first got them. wink.gif
I love that setup.biggrin.gif
Chris
post #8061 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Mark
7 T12HT-LPs, 4 Slanted 8s, and 4 SubM HPs is every bit as Bada$$ now as it was when you first got them. wink.gif
I love that setup.biggrin.gif
Chris

Thanks Doc; I think that fever is subsiding now. wink.gif

Mark
post #8062 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Mark
7 T12HT-LPs, 4 Slanted 8s, and 4 SubM HPs is every bit as Bada$$ now as it was when you first got them. wink.gif
I love that setup.biggrin.gif
Chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Thanks Doc; I think that fever is subsiding now. wink.gif

Mark

As Chris noted you have an amazing system Mark and I would not change a thing ... cool.gif

Well, maybe a bigger AT screen ... wink.gif
post #8063 of 18545
Finally a dedicated space coming together! First one ever. About 14x17 with 8' ceiling. JTR 3TX for LCR, Single 8-LPs for surrounds, dual OS LFs. Epson 5020UB and an SI Black Diamond Zero Edge 114" 16:9 screen cool.gif


post #8064 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

Finally a dedicated space coming together! First one ever. About 14x17 with 8' ceiling. JTR 3TX for LCR, Single 8-LPs for surrounds, dual OS LFs. Epson 5020UB and an SI Black Diamond Zero Edge 114" 16:9 screen

All of that gear in only 1900 ft^3??? Jeff would be proud... tongue.gif
post #8065 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

Finally a dedicated space coming together! First one ever. About 14x17 with 8' ceiling. JTR 3TX for LCR, Single 8-LPs for surrounds, dual OS LFs. Epson 5020UB and an SI Black Diamond Zero Edge 114" 16:9 screen cool.gif



Holy CRAP Kevin, dual OS's in a room that size eek.gif
post #8066 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

All of that gear in only 1900 ft^3??? Jeff would be proud... tongue.gif

Indeed he would wink.gif
post #8067 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Holy CRAP Kevin, dual OS's in a room that size eek.gif

They've been in an even smaller room for a while now wink.gif
post #8068 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

They've been in an even smaller room for a while now wink.gif

Haha you're not worried about bring the house down on top of you?
post #8069 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Haha you're not worried about bring the house down on top of you?

So far, no problemos cool.gif
post #8070 of 18545
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

They've been in an even smaller room for a while now wink.gif
Hi Kevin , I had a media room that was 13x16 with similar ceiling ht, and I got manyA compliments for sound and video. The room was treated, the windows had light blackout treatment with a couch for seating. There was paradigm studio 100's for the front left & right,adp450's sides/back and center ch 690 plus two servo 15 subs. That was a kick ass setup with a jvc dila projector, man did it rock and to boot on the third floor of my then townhouse. I see no problems with your room size, have some fun putting it together.
PeterV
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