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Official JTR speaker thread - Page 284

post #8491 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Any negative consequence to laying the OS on it's side? Sealed or ported I wouldn't be asking this question, but I'm drawing a blank on how/if this would pose an issue with a horn design.

I only ask because those beasts look like they are begging to be ridden. Lay both OS on their side, add a DIY cushion (or two) and BAM! Two extra seats for guests plus the added benefit of disguising the elephant(s) in the room...



eek.gif
biggrin.gif
post #8492 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Shoulda asked Jeff for grills like I did smile.gif


No pets so I'm all good. wink.gif
post #8493 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

Yes, the HT portion is about 14x17.

Nice, I've been quite a but if research with garage conversions, the framing, de-coupling, soundproofing, and lots of overall ideas in general for the future. Well done Kevin, it looks really good!
post #8494 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

Getting a few more things in.



Very nice Kevin ,,, cool.gif

Noticed you've got the OS's up off the floor. What did you use?

Geigar had some good suggestions but the only way to deal with screen reflections is to use an AT screen with treatments behind. You are in the same boat with 95%++ of the HT systems out there whether it's a big flat screen or a non AT FP screen so I wouldn't sweat it. smile.gif

Anxious to hear your take on the SQ ...
post #8495 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Very nice Kevin ,,, cool.gif

Noticed you've got the OS's up off the floor. What did you use?

Geigar had some good suggestions but the only way to deal with screen reflections is to use an AT screen with treatments behind. You are in the same boat with 95%++ of the HT systems out there whether it's a big flat screen or a non AT FP screen so I wouldn't sweat it. smile.gif

Anxious to hear your take on the SQ ...


Hey Rob. They are just sitting on the dolly carts I wheeled them in with. I still have to hang the side GIK panels and then I'll set them down. I do have those heavy duty sorbethane feet you told me about way back when......I'll put 4 of those under each OS.
post #8496 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Shoulda asked Jeff for grills like I did smile.gif


No pets so I'm all good. wink.gif

Sorry about the feline diversion Kevin. Thought I could see a cat flap at the bottom of the door that's all.
post #8497 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

Hey Rob. They are just sitting on the dolly carts I wheeled them in with. I still have to hang the side GIK panels and then I'll set them down. I do have those heavy duty sorbethane feet you told me about way back when......I'll put 4 of those under each OS.

I have the OS's with the 24" dimension vertical but that would probably not work for you as they would stick farther out into the room. In any case, I wouldn't worry about the additional 6" of height of the side panels but if it is bothersome, you could always place another GIK panel on the side of the OS.

Your outside seating positions are in for a wild ride. eek.gif
post #8498 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I have the OS's with the 24" dimension vertical but that would probably not work for you as they would stick farther out into the room. In any case, I wouldn't worry about the additional 6" of height of the side panels but if it is bothersome, you could always place another GIK panel on the side of the OS.

Your outside seating positions are in for a wild ride. eek.gif

I asked Bryan at GIK about covering the inside portion of the OS cab and he said he wouldn't worry about it. He said most everything bouncing off of the OS cab would go down into carpet anyway. Hopefully all will be good.
post #8499 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

No pets so I'm all good. wink.gif
Oh, I thought someone posted something about a cat.
post #8500 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

I asked Bryan at GIK about covering the inside portion of the OS cab and he said he wouldn't worry about it. He said most everything bouncing off of the OS cab would go down into carpet anyway. Hopefully all will be good.

Did he say that after seeing the same pic you posted here? eek.gif
Having lived for a (very) short time with big obstructions in the same spots where your OS's are I can straight faced say they will most definately interfere with the sound from the LCR's. Even if they're only 30" high.

Since you can't exactly place them in the front due to screen/speaker size limitations and I assume your A/V components will be inside those 2 empty stands, the only other placement I see would be in the back of the room under the rear speakers. Preferably at 1/4 distances across that wall. If I'm wrong about those A/V stands you might consider placing the OS's on either side of the center channel and taking RMK's advice of covering them with some panels. I bet it would look and sound great.

Ideally you'd probably get the best sound with 1 sub in the front and 1 in the back in opposite corners of the room but you sure don't have the space for that with those monsters. Of course if you don't hear any interference from reflections off the sides of the OS's all the better and never mind my comments.
post #8501 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by dryeye View Post

Did he say that after seeing the same pic you posted here? eek.gif
Having lived for a (very) short time with big obstructions in the same spots where your OS's are I can straight faced say they will most definately interfere with the sound from the LCR's. Even if they're only 30" high.

Since you can't exactly place them in the front due to screen/speaker size limitations and I assume your A/V components will be inside those 2 empty stands, the only other placement I see would be in the back of the room under the rear speakers. Preferably at 1/4 distances across that wall. If I'm wrong about those A/V stands you might consider placing the OS's on either side of the center channel and taking RMK's advice of covering them with some panels. I bet it would look and sound great.

Ideally you'd probably get the best sound with 1 sub in the front and 1 in the back in opposite corners of the room but you sure don't have the space for that with those monsters. Of course if you don't hear any interference from reflections off the sides of the OS's all the better and never mind my comments.
Hopefully the controlled directivity of the Noesis will limit the reflections. I treated my front and back walls as well as the ceiling, but left my sidewalls alone, and have been very happy with the sound. I have read a few places, that the first reflections are not really detrimental, it is the 3rd and 4th that muddy the sound.
post #8502 of 18650


Ok, guys what say you? I'm either going to leave front stage as you see it here, but there will be GIK panels on side walls right next to the subs. OR..................I can move the left and right speakers to the extreme corners in front of the tri traps and then I'll have enough room to put an OS on either side of the center channel. The OSs are 22" deep so I'll need to bring the LCRs in the room a bit more so their front baffles are at least even with the edge of the OS cabs. I can then move the equip racks to the right or left side wall?????

Coffee table is out btw...........could move it back in or just try and find some end table with some storage for the side of the couch???
post #8503 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post



Ok, guys what say you? I'm either going to leave front stage as you see it here, but there will be GIK panels on side walls right next to the subs. OR..................I can move the left and right speakers to the extreme corners in front of the tri traps and then I'll have enough room to put an OS on either side of the center channel. The OSs are 22" deep so I'll need to bring the LCRs in the room a bit more so their front baffles are at least even with the edge of the OS cabs. I can then move the equip racks to the right or left side wall?????

Coffee table is out btw...........could move it back in or just try and find some end table with some storage for the side of the couch???
I think it will be fine like it is, but if you move the OS to the front I would put panels on the front of them. Having the OS off of the side walls might make the room feel bigger.
post #8504 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post



Ok, guys what say you? I'm either going to leave front stage as you see it here, but there will be GIK panels on side walls right next to the subs. OR..................I can move the left and right speakers to the extreme corners in front of the tri traps and then I'll have enough room to put an OS on either side of the center channel. The OSs are 22" deep so I'll need to bring the LCRs in the room a bit more so their front baffles are at least even with the edge of the OS cabs. I can then move the equip racks to the right or left side wall?????

Coffee table is out btw...........could move it back in or just try and find some end table with some storage for the side of the couch???


I like the OS move to the front Kevin. I might even suggest placing the Mains on top of the OS's on your stands but with horn on the bottom. That way they aren't crowded into the corner and you can have the OS's horn exits firing into the corner lengthening the horn and giving you a bit more LF extension. The Center would stay where it is and with it's horn on top would put the all important LCR horns (HF drivers) at approx the same height.

Might look a little weird but may be the best overall for sound. Of course your method would work too. Either way it would be interesting to try having the horn exits facing one another and the corners and see which gives you the best response/sound. I have wanted to do that myself but it is such a hassle to move them and Jeff's original recommendation to have them fire into the rooms front corners:) made sense. Have fun with it ...cool.gif
post #8505 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post



Ok, guys what say you? I'm either going to leave front stage as you see it here, but there will be GIK panels on side walls right next to the subs. OR..................I can move the left and right speakers to the extreme corners in front of the tri traps and then I'll have enough room to put an OS on either side of the center channel. The OSs are 22" deep so I'll need to bring the LCRs in the room a bit more so their front baffles are at least even with the edge of the OS cabs. I can then move the equip racks to the right or left side wall?????

Coffee table is out btw...........could move it back in or just try and find some end table with some storage for the side of the couch???


Since you can easily move the speakers around now why not see how it looks and feels like with them up front? Like Jedirun says it will no doubt also make the room feel bigger. It costs you nothing but a little time right now.

Just read what RMK posted above and wholeheartedly agree.
Edited by dryeye - 6/26/13 at 2:26pm
post #8506 of 18650
I think you should put them where the table is. biggrin.gif
Chris
post #8507 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by dryeye View Post

Since you can easily move the speakers around now why not see how it looks and feels like with them up front? Like Jedirun says it will no doubt also make the room feel bigger. It costs you nothing but a little time right now.

Just read what RMK posted above and wholeheartedly agree.
I think the horns may be affected by the OS's too. Mine are standing up but I didn't even have to measure to notice the difference by adding panels to reduce first reflections off the side of the OS's. You can see them in this photo but the front L&R and toed in about 30 degrees. The absorbers almost look like speaker grills!
post #8508 of 18650
Okay, 12.25 height for a center 228, I can do that (barely).

I already have two Polk PSW505 subs. Would it be smart or dumb to use them as stands for the left and right 228HT fronts? The 505's are about 16" tall.

Then I could get another sub/subs to place where I have the 505's now. I have a Denon 3312 and an Emotiva XPA-5. Could I run 3 or 4 subs in my system?
I am looking to add 1 or 2 killer subs, whatever is necessary for a kicka.. system. My room is only 17 x 17 but it is has openings on three sides. The wall behind
where I sit has a 6ft opening to my immediate left.

I am not totally opposed to a DIY sub, starting to think about that.

What size and how many subs are recommended? Brands? Thoughts on my plan/setup?
post #8509 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers View Post

Okay, 12.25 height for a center 228, I can do that (barely).

I already have two Polk PSW505 subs. Would it be smart or dumb to use them as stands for the left and right 228HT fronts? The 505's are about 16" tall.

Then I could get another sub/subs to place where I have the 505's now. I have a Denon 3312 and an Emotiva XPA-5. Could I run 3 or 4 subs in my system?
I am looking to add 1 or 2 killer subs, whatever is necessary for a kicka.. system. My room is only 17 x 17 but it is has openings on three sides. The wall behind
where I sit has a 6ft opening to my immediate left.

I am not totally opposed to a DIY sub, starting to think about that.

What size and how many subs are recommended? Brands? Thoughts on my plan/setup?

Your subs will defiantly be the weak link in your system, there's no way two Polk PSW505's will keep up to the 228HT's.
post #8510 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers View Post

Okay, 12.25 height for a center 228, I can do that (barely).

I already have two Polk PSW505 subs. Would it be smart or dumb to use them as stands for the left and right 228HT fronts? The 505's are about 16" tall.

Then I could get another sub/subs to place where I have the 505's now. I have a Denon 3312 and an Emotiva XPA-5. Could I run 3 or 4 subs in my system?
I am looking to add 1 or 2 killer subs, whatever is necessary for a kicka.. system. My room is only 17 x 17 but it is has openings on three sides. The wall behind
where I sit has a 6ft opening to my immediate left.

I am not totally opposed to a DIY sub, starting to think about that.

TnLleEcWhat size and how many subs are recommended? Brands? Thoughts on my plan/setup?
JTR makes excellent subs that will keep up with the 228's. a couple of caps, cap 1000's, S1's or a single S2 or Orbit shifter will definitely supplement the 228's.

I have 228's and an S2 and I couldn't be happier. That will also get you to 4 speakers for the discount from Jeff.
post #8511 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post



Ok, guys what say you? I'm either going to leave front stage as you see it here, but there will be GIK panels on side walls right next to the subs. OR..................I can move the left and right speakers to the extreme corners in front of the tri traps and then I'll have enough room to put an OS on either side of the center channel. The OSs are 22" deep so I'll need to bring the LCRs in the room a bit more so their front baffles are at least even with the edge of the OS cabs. I can then move the equip racks to the right or left side wall?????

Coffee table is out btw...........could move it back in or just try and find some end table with some storage for the side of the couch???

Do you have room behind the couch? I would definitely try that too. Try anything and everything, that's what I did when I got my subs.
post #8512 of 18650
These Noesis 212HT and 228HTs have piqued my curiosity - anybody in the southern Indiana / northern Kentucky area own a pair who is willing to demo? I'd bring my Boston VR3s to compare against.
post #8513 of 18650
Guys, looking at Kevin's pic, I don't think the OS'ers will even fit underneath the screen, It is a bit of an optical illusion but I could be wrong once the casters are off. Also, front loading them would wipe off at least two of the corner traps, it would negate the nearfield placement, and it would make the screen look like it was boxed in (bad for contrast.) I bet two shifters that close to the MLP is just plain FUN too biggrin.gif
post #8514 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Guys, looking at Kevin's pic, I don't think the OS'ers will even fit underneath the screen, It is a bit of an optical illusion but I could be wrong once the casters are off. Also, front loading them would wipe off at least two of the corner traps, it would negate the nearfield placement, and it would make the screen look like it was boxed in (bad for contrast.) I bet two shifters that close to the MLP is just plain FUN too biggrin.gif

They will fit, but only if I set the left and right on top of each one. With a false wall and AT screen, that might be the way to go but not with this room.

So I did a trial run last night. I got all of the equip in and hooked up and system calibrated. The OSs are off of the dolly carts and sitting on the floor in about the same location as the above picture. All speakers set to 75dB and the subs about 3dB hot(each set to 71-72dB which gets me about 78dB when both are on). BTW, what is the best way to read the ratshack sound meter for the sub test tones? I then ran through WOTW, Art of Flight, Underworld-Evo, Percy Jackson. Disappointing first run......just didn't sound very good, which surprised me a bit. The room is a converted garage so concrete slab underneath but nice thick pad and thick carpet. Sounds a bit harsh and not much bass impact. I've had all of this same equip in a smaller square room on the other side of the back wall on the same concrete slab with a lower quality carpet and it all sounded so smooth and impactful. So I thought for sure I have better rectangular room dimensions to work with to start in this new room, and acoustic treatments(which I've never had before). I've got some work to do. wink.gif
Edited by KevinH - 6/27/13 at 8:51am
post #8515 of 18650
I have 212HT for my LCR if you want travel on down to Tennessee.biggrin.gif
post #8516 of 18650
Where are you crossing to the OS'ers? Does your Pre EQ two different subs or just EQ them as one? I find that I really dig the 80-100hz bass a lot. Setting the XO's in my marantz at the low end of that (80hz) doesn't do it for me, so I bump it to 100hz or so, and with the subs hot, I get more impact that way. The GIK panels are going to smooth the overall response too, so it may be you are hearing "flat" for the very first time and it sounds funny.
post #8517 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post

I have 212HT for my LCR if you want travel on down to Tennessee.biggrin.gif

Yea dude, about those....and those subs.....Still looking for a nice review. Too busy enjoying?!?!?
post #8518 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

They will fit, but only if I set the left and right on top of each one. With a false wall and AT screen, that might be the way to go but not with this room.

So I did a trial run last night. I got all of the equip in and hooked up and system calibrated. The OSs are off of the dolly carts and sitting on the floor in about the same location as the above picture. All speakers set to 75dB and the subs about 3dB hot(each set to 71-72dB which gets me about 78dB when both are on). BTW, what is the best way to read the ratshack sound meter for the sub test tones? I then ran through WOTW, Art of Flight, Underworld-Evo, Percy Jackson. Disappointing first run......just didn't sound very good, which surprised me a bit. The room is a converted garage so concrete slad underneath but nice thick pad and thick carpet. Sounds a bit harsh and not much bass impact. I've had all of this same equip in a smaller square room on the other side of the back wall on the same concrete slab with a lower quality carpet and it all sounded so smooth and impactful. So I thought for sure I have better rectangular room dimensions to work with to start in this new room, and acoustic treatments(which I've never had before). I've got some work to do. wink.gif


How about removing the bottom bass trap's, slide the OS's up into the corners with the horn exits firing out into the room. You could also treat the inside (speaker side) panel of the OS's with a 2'X2'X2" panels. Just a thought but it would keep the speaker placement as is and move the OS's up to the front of the room.

Second thought never mind. To crowded looking and places a hard surface right next to the mains.
post #8519 of 18650
The subs are AMAZING. I am very glad I went the DIY route. Having two DO 18's compared to the three HSU VTF's is practically night and day in performance....... A big shout out to beastaudio for his help in getting my system in the shape it is now in.smile.gif
post #8520 of 18650
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Where are you crossing to the OS'ers? Does your Pre EQ two different subs or just EQ them as one? I find that I really dig the 80-100hz bass a lot. Setting the XO's in my marantz at the low end of that (80hz) doesn't do it for me, so I bump it to 100hz or so, and with the subs hot, I get more impact that way. The GIK panels are going to smooth the overall response too, so it may be you are hearing "flat" for the very first time and it sounds funny.


Pre/pro has no EQ. Oppo 105 doing the decoding, analog out to analog pass through of the EAD, then all balanced out to the amp. XO set to 80 in the Oppo.
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