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Official JTR speaker thread - Page 292

post #8731 of 18328
This will be a total rookie question but...what are the general advantages of the balanced xlr's?l
post #8732 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

This will be a total rookie question but...what are the general advantages of the balanced xlr's?l
Read this:
http://www.rane.com/note110.html
post #8733 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

This will be a total rookie question but...what are the general advantages of the balanced xlr's?l

noise rejection, quieter noise floor
post #8734 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

Swapped out the XLRs for the RCAs, moved seating foot closer and reran Audyssey. LCR are all now in the -8 to -9.5 range, subs(still on XLR) are -7.5, and the surrounds are now -2 to -4 range. Wish I could use the balanced cables but it's not gonna work without adding in-line attenuators, which are long and will cause me to have to pull my equipment out further rolleyes.gif so I guess RCAs it is for now. This time it selected 80Hz for the center and surrounds and 150Hz for the mains. I'll leave it there for now. And here is the latest Omnimic graph after that run.


I wonder if the LCR xo's are working correctly! You have checked that all woofer drivers have sound coming out and not just that of the CD/horns? Weirder things have happen.biggrin.gif
post #8735 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonleepenn View Post

I wonder if the LCR xo's are working correctly! You have checked that all woofer drivers have sound coming out and not just that of the CD/horns? Weirder things have happen.biggrin.gif

Yup Peter, here is each speaker individually full range, no subs and no Audyssey, and then each with an 80Hz tone. They are working fine.



post #8736 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Just to add to your confusion ...wink.gif, and based upon your requirements I would get the Noesis 212's and either two passive Captivators plus an amp or, 2 Cap 1000's.
I think that would give you all you need in a 2700^3 space.

Interesting, so what would 2 Cap 1000's provide over an S2? Will they give more output above 20hz just like the OS whilst giving the same output below 20hz like the S2?
Also if I were to go with an S2 and add another at a later stage will this equal the output above 20hz that the OS provides?
I think going the 212HT's would negate the need to upgrade (until Jeff comes up with a newer and better version smile.gif), so it comes down to LFE options.
post #8737 of 18328
Well like N8dogg, I would love a 210HT in either vented or a sealed version. The 212 version is tough to fit and tough for WAF. If it could use the same horn design, it would be a no-brainier for me! Don't know if Jeff has a compatible 10" driver like he does in 8 and 12". This 10" version would be an easier size to use in living rooms yet still having most of the extra impact of the 12" version.
post #8738 of 18328
I am interested in picking up some 228s or triple 8s. The only thing confusing me is that many of you guys are reporting that these speakers cannot be calibrated properly via audyssey (bottoming out at -12). It seems that those of you with amplifiers are remedying this by putting attenuators between the amp and receiver during the calibration and then removing them afterwards.

I plan on running these speakers directly off of a denon receiver so I obviously cannot use attenuators.
Does this mean that audyssey will not set the speakers correctly when driven directly off the receiver?
What can be done to remedy the bottoming out issue of audyssey when the speakers are driven directly off of a receiver?

This audyssey issue is really the only thing holding me back from pulling the trigger on these speakers for my new theater.

Any insight is greatly appreciated.
post #8739 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by GETREAL95 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Just to add to your confusion ...wink.gif, and based upon your requirements I would get the Noesis 212's and either two passive Captivators plus an amp or, 2 Cap 1000's.
I think that would give you all you need in a 2700^3 space.

Interesting, so what would 2 Cap 1000's provide over an S2? Will they give more output above 20hz just like the OS whilst giving the same output below 20hz like the S2?
Also if I were to go with an S2 and add another at a later stage will this equal the output above 20hz that the OS provides?
I think going the 212HT's would negate the need to upgrade (until Jeff comes up with a newer and better version smile.gif), so it comes down to LFE options.

I do not believe that the output of 2 cap 1000s above 18 Hz will be more than a single S2. When I communicated with Jeff on the ported vs sealed caps output he indicated that S2 has output equal to a Cap 2400 above port tune and a lot more output below that. If a cap 1000 has half the output than a cap 2400 then two of them would have output comparable to a S2 above 18 Hz.

The main advantage would be smoother frequency response not more output.
post #8740 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by GETREAL95 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Just to add to your confusion ...wink.gif, and based upon your requirements I would get the Noesis 212's and either two passive Captivators plus an amp or, 2 Cap 1000's.
I think that would give you all you need in a 2700^3 space.

Interesting, so what would 2 Cap 1000's provide over an S2? Will they give more output above 20hz just like the OS whilst giving the same output below 20hz like the S2?
Also if I were to go with an S2 and add another at a later stage will this equal the output above 20hz that the OS provides?
I think going the 212HT's would negate the need to upgrade (until Jeff comes up with a newer and better version smile.gif), so it comes down to LFE options.

I do not believe that the output of 2 cap 1000s above 18 Hz will be more than a single S2. When I communicated with Jeff on the ported vs sealed caps output he indicated that S2 has output equal to a Cap 2400 above port tune and a lot more output below that. If a cap 1000 has half the output than a cap 2400 then two of them would have output comparable to a S2 above 18 Hz.

The main advantage would be smoother frequency response not more output.
post #8741 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Decelerate View Post

I am interested in picking up some 228s or triple 8s. The only thing confusing me is that many of you guys are reporting that these speakers cannot be calibrated properly via audyssey (bottoming out at -12). It seems that those of you with amplifiers are remedying this by putting attenuators between the amp and receiver during the calibration and then removing them afterwards.

I plan on running these speakers directly off of a denon receiver so I obviously cannot use attenuators.
Does this mean that audyssey will not set the speakers correctly when driven directly off the receiver?
What can be done to remedy the bottoming out issue of audyssey when the speakers are driven directly off of a receiver?

This audyssey issue is really the only thing holding me back from pulling the trigger on these speakers for my new theater.

Any insight is greatly appreciated.



Just to try out how things sounded with only the recievers amps pushing my t12lp LCR 's and t8lp back/surrounds. I hooked up the jtr's directly to the reciever,the results were pretty amazing. And no problems with the auddysey setting the trims 11db or above. That seems to be a non issue. The problem seems to be with higher powered amps running such hi sensitivity speakers. With amps that have a level control knob ( volume) one can set the trims on the amps down until the auddysey can calibrate the system properly. You should be ok using the recievers amps.





PeterV
post #8742 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by GETREAL95 View Post

Interesting, so what would 2 Cap 1000's provide over an S2? Will they give more output above 20hz just like the OS whilst giving the same output below 20hz like the S2?
Also if I were to go with an S2 and add another at a later stage will this equal the output above 20hz that the OS provides?
I think going the 212HT's would negate the need to upgrade (until Jeff comes up with a newer and better version smile.gif), so it comes down to LFE options.

I would tend to agree with Logicators comments above re the performance above and below 20hz. The Cap 1000 is the best value play in the JTR sub lineup (Jeffs words, not mine) and with your room size and budget I was trying to be reasonable. Of course, many things about this hobby are unreasonable so one and then two S2's are an excellent choice.
Edited by RMK! - 7/13/13 at 8:21pm
post #8743 of 18328
So looks like 212HT's and S2 it is. Would 2 x S2's equal an OS in output above 20hz?
post #8744 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by GETREAL95 View Post

So looks like 212HT's and S2 it is. Would 2 x S2's equal an OS in output above 20hz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GETREAL95 View Post

So looks like 212HT's and S2 it is. Would 2 x S2's equal an OS in output above 20hz?

1 OS = 2 S2s above 20hz

I ordered the OS instead because after watching Imax's latest sound system (in the latest Imax screens), the sound was just spectacular... and according to Imax, their sound system goes down to 23hz (at reference). So, basing on that, I think there really is no need for going further down. The Imax latest sound system is by far the best I have heard. I have heard home theaters with 'way too much bass' that goes way too down, and they make me sick...
post #8745 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post


1 OS = 2 S2s above 20hz

I ordered the OS instead because after watching Imax's latest sound system (in the latest Imax screens), the sound was just spectacular... and according to Imax, their sound system goes down to 23hz (at reference). So, basing on that, I think there really is no need for going further down. The Imax latest sound system is by far the best I have heard. I have heard home theaters with 'way too much bass' that goes way too down, and they make me sick...

Fair enough, since I do not have room behind my AT screen for an OS I will get a S2 for now and add another at a later stage. I'm guessing most movies don't have much sound below 20hz???
post #8746 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by GETREAL95 View Post

Fair enough, since I do not have room behind my AT screen for an OS I will get a S2 for now and add another at a later stage. I'm guessing most movies don't have much sound below 20hz???

Probably less then 5% of all movies have any content below 20hz.
post #8747 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Probably less then 5% of all movies have any content below 20hz.
I was looking at the graphs post and what did it for me is the amount of actual play time you even see 20hz< in the movies that had them was so little. I mean, if 5% of movies contain that material for say 10 seconds of 120 minutes of movie...

Maybe I'm just reading those graphs wrong but it didnt look like very much play time.
post #8748 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

I was looking at the graphs post and what did it for me is the amount of actual play time you even see 20hz< in the movies that had them was so little. I mean, if 5% of movies contain that material for say 10 seconds of 120 minutes of movie...

Maybe I'm just reading those graphs wrong but it didnt look like very much play time.

Honestly you're probably better off building a system that can hit reference levels at 20hz they trying to chase crazy output at single digits.

Don't get me wrong though, having great output all the way down to single digits is cool!..lol
But for the amount of content that's around to show it off isn't really worth worrying about IMO. Plus it's not like an OS falls on its face below 20hz, it'll probably still scare the sh{t out of most normal people!...lol
post #8749 of 18328
I've been to a lot of sub meets and witnessed first hand most of the best subs mentioned on this forum. I don't give two toots about anything below about 15hz. I don't hear anything below about 16 or 17hz. What's below that just doesn't matter in my opinion. I'd take a pair of subs that will play to well above reference at 15 or 20hz any day over a single sub that digs down to signal chain rollofff to reference. That's my experienced personal preference. A pair of ported captivators suit me just fine. We did a shootout between all these subs in 2012, blind, at my house as linked in my sig, and nobody out of nine blind voting enthusiasts could even tell the difference between ported, sealed, or horn when the volumes were level matched and kept within capability of the subs and amps. --- At least when comparing subs in the same quality classes. All three alignments averaged out between a 3% score gap based on nine total votes. I mostly keep my mouth shut on the issue because people like what they like, and many like to chase the last 1 percent.

As to the fellow getting ready to order from Jeff and wanting to know how to spend $10K.

my take...

Two subs are pretty vital in my experience and opinion -- at least in most rooms. It disallows localization of the sound. If the choice is two subs that play to 17.5hz (ported caps) or 1 sub that plays deeper (s2) for the same money - I would certainty advise two subs. Now if you have the budget to get two S2's or two Orbit Shifters - then go for it. But with limited funds - you'll be far happier with two subs playing to 15 or 20hz, than a single sub which won't even reproduce those lowest of frequencies if playing solo with enough authority to make it worth your while in all but the very smallest of rooms. Heck I've still yet to hear what all the fuss is about with the black hawk down clip and such. I've now heard it on eight 18" subs, four 18" subs in a different room, eight 15" subs in a different room, two orbit shifters in a different room, two S2's in a different room. etc etc. etc - and I've never even felt/experienced the magic that people talk about. The subs sound great where they should, but you have to pretty much be in a miniscule room or have a ridiculous quantity of drivers/subs to feel pressure waves at 5-7hz, and frankly - I don't think I've experienced it yet. I suppose popalock's room might make it happen. Contrast that with the fact that I'll guarantee, by virtue of betting one of my own paychecks that I could tell you if there were A) two subs or B) one sub playing in 9 out of 10 home theater rooms, and 10 out of 10 if I'm allowed to sit in a couple different seats to compare.

So --- anyway - - I'd recommend that fellow to order five or seven 228HT, and a couple of passive ported captivators and mate them up to a cerwin vega cv-5000 amp for my 10G. He'll have one of the best movie systems money can buy. That's a complete setup for home theater around the 10K point! For movie use the 228HT and the 212HT are pretty much on par - I'm not sure I could tell the difference. The 212HT is superior for music, it has a bigger soundstage sound. The 228HT is more focused. For 5.1 or 7.1 - focused is not a bad thing. I've got quite a bit of experience with both 212HT and 228HT - both are excellent speakers.

If he just wants front L/C/R and subs -- then three 212HT and a couple of passive ported captivators fits the 10G bill too. I'd not recommend a single sub option unless he plans to buy a mate later.
Edited by Archaea - 7/13/13 at 11:31pm
post #8750 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I've been to a lot of sub meets and witnessed first hand most of the best subs mentioned on this forum. I don't give two toots about anything below about 15hz. I don't hear anything below about 16 or 17hz. What's below that just doesn't matter in my opinion. I'd take a pair of subs that will play to well above reference at 15 or 20hz any day over a single sub that digs down to signal chain rollofff to reference. That's my experienced personal preference. A pair of ported captivators suit me just fine. We did a shootout between all these subs in 2012, blind, at my house as linked in my sig, and nobody out of nine blind voting enthusiasts could even tell the difference between ported, sealed, or horn when the volumes were level matched and kept within capability of the subs and amps. --- At least when comparing subs in the same quality classes. All three alignments averaged out between a 3% score gap based on nine total votes. I mostly keep my mouth shut on the issue because people like what they like, and many like to chase the last 1 percent.

As to the fellow getting ready to order from Jeff and wanting to know how to spend $10K.

my take...

Two subs are pretty vital in my experience and opinion -- at least in most rooms. It disallows localization of the sound. If the choice is two subs that play to 17.5hz (ported caps) or 1 sub that plays deeper (s2) for the same money - I would certainty advise two subs. Now if you have the budget to get two S2's or two Orbit Shifters - then go for it. But with limited funds - you'll be far happier with two subs playing to 15 or 20hz, than a single sub which won't even reproduce those lowest of frequencies if playing solo with enough authority to make it worth your while in all but the very smallest of rooms. Heck I've still yet to hear what all the fuss is about with the black hawk down clip and such. I've now heard it on eight 18" subs, four 18" subs in a different room, eight 15" subs in a different room, two orbit shifters in a different room, two S2's in a different room. etc etc. etc - and I've never even felt/experienced the magic that people talk about. The subs sound great where they should, but you have to pretty much be in a miniscule room or have a ridiculous quantity of drivers/subs to feel pressure waves at 5-7hz, and frankly - I don't think I've experienced it yet. I suppose popalock's room might make it happen. Contrast that with the fact that I'll guarantee, by virtue of betting one of my own paychecks that I could tell you if there were A) two subs or B) one sub playing in 9 out of 10 home theater rooms, and 10 out of 10 if I'm allowed to sit in a couple different seats to compare.

So --- anyway - - I'd recommend that fellow to order five or seven 228HT, and a couple of passive ported captivators and mate them up to a cerwin vega cv-5000 amp for my 10G. He'll have one of the best movie systems money can buy. That's a complete setup for home theater around the 10K point! For movie use the 228HT and the 212HT are pretty much on par - I'm not sure I could tell the difference. The 212HT is superior for music, it has a bigger soundstage sound. The 228HT is more focused. For 5.1 or 7.1 - focused is not a bad thing. I've got quite a bit of experience with both 212HT and 228HT - both are excellent speakers.

If he just wants front L/C/R and subs -- then three 212HT and a couple of passive ported captivators fits the 10G bill too. I'd not recommend a single sub option unless he plans to buy a mate later.

Some very valid points there Archaea, I can see where you are coming from especially since you have experienced so many setups with the GTGs you have been to. I forgot to mention that I already have a Submersive that I will be using for LFE duties at the rear of the room. Not sure how this would mate up with the S2, since they are both sealed subs might work better together than going a ported sub? Not sure, otherwise I could sell the Submersive and go for 2 subs from the same camp?
post #8751 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by GETREAL95 View Post

Some very valid points there Archaea, I can see where you are coming from especially since you have experienced so many setups with the GTGs you have been to. I forgot to mention that I already have a Submersive that I will be using for LFE duties at the rear of the room. Not sure how this would mate up with the S2, since they are both sealed subs might work better together than going a ported sub? Not sure, otherwise I could sell the Submersive and go for 2 subs from the same camp?
In this case definitely stayed with the sealed S2 and get 212 x 3. In the future mabey add another S2 or even another SubM. You can add as many sealed subs as you like. Do not consider ported unless you intend on selling the SubM and going for all ported.
The 212 is the best of the best when it comes to JTR speakers.
Chris
post #8752 of 18328
post #8753 of 18328
So I just got the marantz on Wednesday and finally sat down and listened to some material last night.......all blu demo stuff. I've been messing around with running Audyssey which has been a little frustrating. After about 10 runs, it's always selecting a high XO for my mains(200Hz 7 of 10 times). Everything else is quite right. The very first time I ran Audyssey, it selected 120hz, but I can't remember the mic placement I used then. After reading some of the recommendations on mic placement in the guide at hometheatershach, I would say 6 of my 8 measurements have been within 3-4 inches of the mlp. The first run I think they were more spread out. I know Audyssey is measuring where your speakers are rolling off in your room so I'm confident it's accurate. You're not supposed to lower the XO Audyssey selects because there will be a gap with no correction applied, but if left at 200Hz I'm surely missing some material that my subs won't reproduce(my subs are +\- 1dB up to 110 Hz).....so not sure which is better. Maybe my mic placement doesn't need to be so tight and ill be able to get a lower XO for my mains......maybe 4 tight and 4 spread out.

I currently have left the mains at 200Hz and having said all of the above, I'm quite shocked!.................at how frickin good it sounds with Audyssey! Lol. I've always had very nice equipment, but have been using a very nice legacy pre/pro with an Oppo 105 doing all the decoding and passing through analog and just am surprised at just how much I was missing. Best way I can describe it is that there is just so much more detail in what you can hear.....in the entire freq band....even the detail in the bass region is amazing. Fleshes out the action on the screen so much better and therefore makes it more immersive. Call me sold on Audyssey, and I don't even have it dialed in the best I can. I usually adopt cool new tech early and am sorry I didn't here. My EAD pre/pro was so nice, but it was very expensive AND I spent more money having Noble Electronics do some nice mods too it......that's why I held on so long. Still an amazing piece, just doesn't fit anymore if you want an up to date home theater. The 3TXs, S8s and Shifters are sounding amazin. More later.......
post #8754 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

So I just got the marantz on Wednesday and finally sat down and listened to some material last night.......all blu demo stuff. I've been messing around with running Audyssey which has been a little frustrating. After about 10 runs, it's always selecting a high XO for my mains(200Hz 7 of 10 times). Everything else is quite right. The very first time I ran Audyssey, it selected 120hz, but I can't remember the mic placement I used then. After reading some of the recommendations on mic placement in the guide at hometheatershach, I would say 6 of my 8 measurements have been within 3-4 inches of the mlp. The first run I think they were more spread out. I know Audyssey is measuring where your speakers are rolling off in your room so I'm confident it's accurate. You're not supposed to lower the XO Audyssey selects because there will be a gap with no correction applied, but if left at 200Hz I'm surely missing some material that my subs won't reproduce(my subs are +\- 1dB up to 110 Hz).....so not sure which is better. Maybe my mic placement doesn't need to be so tight and ill be able to get a lower XO for my mains......maybe 4 tight and 4 spread out.

I currently have left the mains at 200Hz and having said all of the above, I'm quite shocked!.................at how frickin good it sounds with Audyssey! Lol. I've always had very nice equipment, but have been using a very nice legacy pre/pro with an Oppo 105 doing all the decoding and passing through analog and just am surprised at just how much I was missing. Best way I can describe it is that there is just so much more detail in what you can hear.....in the entire freq band....even the detail in the bass region is amazing. Fleshes out the action on the screen so much better and therefore makes it more immersive. Call me sold on Audyssey, and I don't even have it dialed in the best I can. I usually adopt cool new tech early and am sorry I didn't here. My EAD pre/pro was so nice, but it was very expensive AND I spent more money having Noble Electronics do some nice mods too it......that's why I held on so long. Still an amazing piece, just doesn't fit anymore if you want an up to date home theater. The 3TXs, S8s and Shifters are sounding amazin. More later.......

I'm happy that your system is sounding good but the 200hz xover is very weird. Audyssey (XT32) usually sets my 212 mains and center @ 50 or 60hz and I bump it up to 80hz. I can't recall ever hearing that high of a xover setting from Audyssey but if it sounds good to you, and there are not holes in the FR, I guess you are good to go. Your LCR woofers are loafing though ... smile.gif
post #8755 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

If I had it to do over again this is what I would do.

I would go with 3 228HT's L/C/R 4 single 8's and 2 S2's. I think this comes in around $11K and this would be an incredible set up. As I said a few times 5 single 8's and a cap could probably be considered one of the best and affordable 5.1/5.2 setups out there.

Most of us here are at least .2 people wink.gif.
Interesting that you would trade off your 212's for 228's. Guess you are really liking the sound of the 228 center. cool.gif
post #8756 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I'm happy that your system is sounding good but the 200hz xover is very weird. Audyssey (XT32) usually sets my 212 mains and center @ 50 or 60hz and I bump it up to 80hz. I can't recall ever hearing that high of a xover setting from Audyssey but if it sounds good to you, and there are not holes in the FR, I guess you are good to go. Your LCR woofers are loafing though ... smile.gif


I know Rob. I mean it's picking 80 or 90 for the center 3TX every time.....and even 60 for the S8s sometimes but they are wall mounted and getting a little reinforcement. My mains are equal distance from the mlp so they are out from the front wall, but just a little more than the center. The center of the front baffle of the left and right 3TXs are 27" from the front wall and 3' in from the side wall. Even when I moved them closer to the front wall(like the center), it still chose 200Hz. I do see it as a problem either way though. If you lower the XO, you now have that gap where no corrections are being applied by Audyssey. If you leave it at 200, there has to be some content being sent to the subs that they can't reproduce accurately right?(too high). I think what Audyssey is telling me is accurate from the mic placements used. A guy just had his Revel F series speakers set to 250Hz( they are +/- 3db at 40 i believe). I've seen a lot of it from the browsing I've done.......I still want to bring it down.
post #8757 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I've been to a lot of sub meets and witnessed first hand most of the best subs mentioned on this forum. I don't give two toots about anything below about 15hz. I don't hear anything below about 16 or 17hz. What's below that just doesn't matter in my opinion. I'd take a pair of subs that will play to well above reference at 15 or 20hz any day over a single sub that digs down to signal chain rollofff to reference. That's my experienced personal preference. A pair of ported captivators suit me just fine. We did a shootout between all these subs in 2012, blind, at my house as linked in my sig, and nobody out of nine blind voting enthusiasts could even tell the difference between ported, sealed, or horn when the volumes were level matched and kept within capability of the subs and amps. --- At least when comparing subs in the same quality classes. All three alignments averaged out between a 3% score gap based on nine total votes. I mostly keep my mouth shut on the issue because people like what they like, and many like to chase the last 1 percent.

As to the fellow getting ready to order from Jeff and wanting to know how to spend $10K.

my take...

Two subs are pretty vital in my experience and opinion -- at least in most rooms. It disallows localization of the sound. If the choice is two subs that play to 17.5hz (ported caps) or 1 sub that plays deeper (s2) for the same money - I would certainty advise two subs. Now if you have the budget to get two S2's or two Orbit Shifters - then go for it. But with limited funds - you'll be far happier with two subs playing to 15 or 20hz, than a single sub which won't even reproduce those lowest of frequencies if playing solo with enough authority to make it worth your while in all but the very smallest of rooms. Heck I've still yet to hear what all the fuss is about with the black hawk down clip and such. I've now heard it on eight 18" subs, four 18" subs in a different room, eight 15" subs in a different room, two orbit shifters in a different room, two S2's in a different room. etc etc. etc - and I've never even felt/experienced the magic that people talk about. The subs sound great where they should, but you have to pretty much be in a miniscule room or have a ridiculous quantity of drivers/subs to feel pressure waves at 5-7hz, and frankly - I don't think I've experienced it yet. I suppose popalock's room might make it happen. Contrast that with the fact that I'll guarantee, by virtue of betting one of my own paychecks that I could tell you if there were A) two subs or B) one sub playing in 9 out of 10 home theater rooms, and 10 out of 10 if I'm allowed to sit in a couple different seats to compare.

So --- anyway - - I'd recommend that fellow to order five or seven 228HT, and a couple of passive ported captivators and mate them up to a cerwin vega cv-5000 amp for my 10G. He'll have one of the best movie systems money can buy. That's a complete setup for home theater around the 10K point! For movie use the 228HT and the 212HT are pretty much on par - I'm not sure I could tell the difference. The 212HT is superior for music, it has a bigger soundstage sound. The 228HT is more focused. For 5.1 or 7.1 - focused is not a bad thing. I've got quite a bit of experience with both 212HT and 228HT - both are excellent speakers.

If he just wants front L/C/R and subs -- then three 212HT and a couple of passive ported captivators fits the 10G bill too. I'd not recommend a single sub option unless he plans to buy a mate later.

Archea, Thank you for your experienced detailed response to his question. It helps us up and coming ones learn with. I have some questions as I always have about using the pro amp setup but just haven't got to asking yet really as there is many avenues to learn. biggrin.gif What exactly does it look like using the passive sub/pro amp combo? Don't you need a separate DSP as well? So literally and physically what does this look like? Amp/DSP in the rack, and then how do you program the DSP? Do you hook up a computer to it and it has its own user interface? Or perhaps a software program that works in tandem with the dsp? Is there a thread or site that is similar to a 101 course in this style of setup rather than the plug and play built in plate amps with DSP's?

Also, it seems many of us who are willing to spend want some EQ control over our subs. Let's take the S2 for example. It already has a "tuned" DSP by Jeff. So using another unit, as all rooms prove to be different, and then tweaking the already tuned DSP does this have any negative effects? Does Jeff just tune it to the point that it begins to naturally fall or does he do any low end boosting? Seems like you would want to know if you were boosting on top of boosting rolleyes.gif

It seems the 2 passive cap/CV amp is looking at 3700 but do you need to add a DSP (they may be inexpensive but obviously I have yet to take the DSP course).
2 powered cap 2400's is 5000

Bear with me, I was always the kid in Algebra class asking questions but I still got A's...tongue.gif
post #8758 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

I know Rob. I mean it's picking 80 or 90 for the center 3TX every time.....and even 60 for the S8s sometimes but they are wall mounted and getting a little reinforcement. My mains are equal distance from the mlp so they are out from the front wall, but just a little more than the center. The center of the front baffle of the left and right 3TXs are 27" from the front wall and 3' in from the side wall. Even when I moved them closer to the front wall(like the center), it still chose 200Hz. I do see it as a problem either way though. If you lower the XO, you now have that gap where no corrections are being applied by Audyssey. If you leave it at 200, there has to be some content being sent to the subs that they can't reproduce accurately right?(too high). I think what Audyssey is telling me is accurate from the mic placements used. A guy just had his Revel F series speakers set to 250Hz( they are +/- 3db at 40 i believe). I've seen a lot of it from the browsing I've done.......I still want to bring it down.

Forgive me Kevin if you don't care for my comments (a novice giving advice to someone further along:D) no offense taken if you do.biggrin.gif

One thing we know for sure is that these speakers are capable of having a low crossover set by Audyssey, and Jeff's specks, as your center is calibrated that way. So it seems you are getting some nasty reflections that are causing the +-3db point to where Audyssey says that's it. Maybe, if you are willing, you could treat the entire front wall and the sides entirely to the first reflection points. Like the live end/dead end style of room treating. Surely you wouldn't want to buy more for this but perhaps use all you got in a mock setup for testing?
post #8759 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

If I had it to do over again this is what I would do.

I would go with 3 228HT's L/C/R 4 single 8's and 2 S2's. I think this comes in around $11K and this would be an incredible set up. As I said a few times 5 single 8's and a cap could probably be considered one of the best and affordable 5.1/5.2 setups out there.

Do you mostly just watch movies Dave? If that's the case I could defiantly see what you'd say that. I recently had a buddy over that loved my 228HT's and is thinking about buying a bunch of JTR stuff for his theatre room. I keep trying to steer him towards the 228HT's for his LCR and four S8's or Slant 8's for his surrounds along with two Cap 1000's. I know his layout and he's going to be a strictly movie guy to like me but he always likes to go to the extremes with anything he does or buys!....lol
post #8760 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Forgive me Kevin if you don't care for my comments (a novice giving advice to someone further along:D) no offense taken if you do.biggrin.gif

One thing we know for sure is that these speakers are capable of having a low crossover set by Audyssey, and Jeff's specks, as your center is calibrated that way. So it seems you are getting some nasty reflections that are causing the +-3db point to where Audyssey says that's it. Maybe, if you are willing, you could treat the entire front wall and the sides entirely to the first reflection points. Like the live end/dead end style of room treating. Surely you wouldn't want to buy more for this but perhaps use all you got in a mock setup for testing?

I do jl, I have tri traps in the front corners floor to ceiling, and as much of the front wall treated as I can, minus the big projection screen. I have the first and second side wall reflection points treated, and 2 big monster traps on the back wall. I could try more I suppose but not sure I want to at this time.
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