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Official JTR speaker thread - Page 303

post #9061 of 18375
Not exactly code, but not dangerous. The entire run is rated for 30a, just a modified plug to make a power cord fit smile.gif Doing it the opposite way would certainly be a problem where you would be putting a 30amp device on a 15a rated plug.
post #9062 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

I'm no electrician, but i can't help but think that it is somewhat dangerous with the 30a breaker in the box, and 20a rated plugs and outlet?

I apologize, beast beat me to it..
Edited by MiniHT - 8/2/13 at 8:57am
post #9063 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Not exactly code, but not dangerous. The entire run is rated for 30a, just a modified plug to make a power cord fit smile.gif Doing it the opposite way would certainly be a problem where you would be putting a 30amp device on a 15a rated plug.

I think he meant 'dangerous' in the sense that if you accidentally put your finger in the socket and touch the live wire.. you'll have 30A running thru your body,.. enough to kill. That's why they don't make 30A sockets.... (for instance, hot waters boilers, etc, that runs on 30A don't have sockets, they connect directly behind the wall).
post #9064 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Not sure I understand what you are asking but the Powercon connector only takes care of the OS end of the power cable. You will need to attach the appropriate connector to match your outlet to the other end.

The OS amp has a ceramic fuse that should protect the amp from power spikes.

That's what I thought. Anyways, i am meeting up with my electrician in a few days' time. He might come up with a solution.

As for the fuse, thanks, i guess i don't need to invest in a 5000 VA voltage stabilizer.
post #9065 of 18375
Quote:
put your finger in the socket and touch the live wire

Hmm, This part...Just don't do this part.^^^^^^
post #9066 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

I think he meant 'dangerous' in the sense that if you accidentally put your finger in the socket and touch the live wire.. you'll have 30A running thru your body,.. enough to kill. That's why they don't make 30A sockets.... (for instance, hot waters boilers, etc, that runs on 30A don't have sockets, they connect directly behind the wall).
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Hmm, This part...Just don't do this part.^^^^^^


Keep in mind electric dryers and stoves still have plugs and sockets. Typical rating on those is 50A of 230V.
post #9067 of 18375
Quote:
Keep in mind electric dryers and stoves still have plugs and sockets. Typical rating on those is 50A of 230V.

I don't think so... Electric Dryers that plugs to the wall are typically only 13A...

I have asked my electrician.. he says, anything above 15A generally don't have a socket... they have a 'on / off' button... you can't stick your fingers in any holes... I don't think your typical 'household' items uses anything more than 30A.. unless you're running a restaurant...
post #9068 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Well All, tempting sub options to partner with Noesis. Seaton now has the traditional HP, F2 with the 4kw amp and a passive/slave option connected by a speakon connection. So 4-15's with the 4k speaker power amp in 2 enclosures for 4k before shipping

Even with this I'm not sure it can beat the Cap S2 and OS in value for performance. It looks like there will be a HP+/F2+ models with 4kw amps and HPi+/F2i+ models with a 6kw amp. Each partnered with a passive or slave unit as Mark is calling it.
post #9069 of 18375
I think it may be time to find a new electrician. Dryers can easily require in excess of 50A and have a plug on them while most stoves require 30A also with a plug.

For example here is a dryer receptacle.
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=5050&section=42418&minisite=10251
post #9070 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Touché... biggrin.gif

Hey wait a minute... I'm willing to bet you have kicked my a$$ in the spl department in your room! smile.gif

Probably not, I don't listen to anything much above reference. Reference in my room is about as much as I can stand..... Though that didn't stop me from ordering another 6 FTW 21's hahahaha.
post #9071 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

I don't think so... Electric Dryers that plugs to the wall are typically only 13A...

I have asked my electrician.. he says, anything above 15A generally don't have a socket... they have a 'on / off' button... you can't stick your fingers in any holes... I don't think your typical 'household' items uses anything more than 30A.. unless you're running a restaurant...

Go look at your dryer. You will find that it is a lot more than 13 amps. Probably nearly every house in America has a 30 amp or greater outlet in it. My dryer is 30 amp plug and receptacle. My range has a 40 amp plug and receptacle. Type in NEMA 30 amp receptacle and see how many hits you get. That is a standard size used all the time.
Reply
Reply
post #9072 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

That's why they don't make 30A sockets....
Oh?
http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?id=4788
post #9073 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Even with this I'm not sure it can beat the Cap S2 and OS in value for performance. It looks like there will be a HP+/F2+ models with 4kw amps and HPi+/F2i+ models with a 6kw amp. Each partnered with a passive or slave unit as Mark is calling it.
If you stack them or co locate them like the S2 it would be more close. The OS is just unbeatable above 20hz with a single same priced subwoofer. If you are looking for a single sealed sub the S2 is hard to beat.
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 8/3/13 at 6:35am
post #9074 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


If you stack them or co locate them like the S2 it would be may . The OS is just unbeatable above 20hz with a single same priced subwoofer. If you are looking for a single sealed sub the S2 is hard to beat.
Chris

I have been asking for a number estimate on the Seaton forum but Mark seems to be side shifting, or my inexperience is not allowing me to dissect what he is saying. Either way for another thousand it seems it would be comparable to an S2. The benefit comes in being able to use two locations for better room response
post #9075 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

I have been asking for a number estimate on the Seaton forum but Mark seems to be side shifting, or my inexperience is not allowing me to dissect what he is saying. Either way for another thousand it seems it would be comparable to an S2. The benefit comes in being able to use two locations for better room response
The answer is 19mm - 20mm but that is x 2 in a nice sized box. The S2 should go a little deeper but the other has its advantages too. The S2 could be made better by increasing the cabinet size but at 195lbs its already Large.
Chris
post #9076 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


The answer is 19mm - 20mm but that is x 2 in a nice sized box. The S2 should go a little deeper but the other has its advantages too. The S2 could be made better by increasing the cabinet size but at 195lbs its already Large.
Chris

Hmmm, perhaps Jeff would be willing to build a little bigger S2. Would a few extra cubic ft make a note able difference?
post #9077 of 18375
More internal volume would take less watts to drive the subwoofers so the amp and woofer become more efficient. Whether or not you could hear a difference would be debatable. For 3 grand the S2 cannot be beat, unless you go DIY, and for 4 grand the SubM HP M/S combo is a great deal. I have a pair of SubM HPs and I would not trade them for a S2 but I would for two. Both offers give you exactly what you pay for. An OS would give the most performance to $$$ between the 3.
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 8/2/13 at 5:37pm
post #9078 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

More internal volume would take less watts to drive the subwoofers so the amp becomes more efficient. Whether or not you could hear a difference would be debatable. For 3 grand the S2 cannot be beat, unless you go DIY, and for 4 grand the SubM HP M/S combo is a great deal. I have a pair of SubM HPs and I would not trade them for a S2 but I would for two. Both offers give you exactly what you pay for. An OS would give the most performance to $$$ between the 3.
Chris

Thanks Chris
post #9079 of 18375
This is a mandatory post, ordered by the Audio Gods......my 228s have been shipped!

Now, a certain bit of unfinished business, the subwoofer decision, leaning toward the SubMersive Plus....
post #9080 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

I don't think so... Electric Dryers that plugs to the wall are typically only 13A...

I have asked my electrician.. he says, anything above 15A generally don't have a socket... they have a 'on / off' button... you can't stick your fingers in any holes... I don't think your typical 'household' items uses anything more than 30A.. unless you're running a restaurant...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

I think it may be time to find a new electrician. Dryers can easily require in excess of 50A and have a plug on them while most stoves require 30A also with a plug.

For example here is a dryer receptacle.
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=5050&section=42418&minisite=10251

Agreed. I have four different style plugs just inside my house, for different reasons. And a separate style for the hot tub...That still isn't here yet...

When he mentioned electric dryer he didn't mean a hair dryer, he meant clothes dryer.
post #9081 of 18375
Water heater, clothes dryer, portable room heaters, hair dryers, dishwasher. These are the highest energy hogs in a typical house. Outside would be compressors and pool pumps.

Just don't forget about the wire gauge. I've seen so many shady backyard box renovations with big breakers and tiny wires.
post #9082 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Water heater, clothes dryer, portable room heaters, hair dryers, dishwasher. These are the highest energy hogs in a typical house. Outside would be compressors and pool pumps.

Just don't forget about the wire gauge. I've seen so many shady backyard box renovations with big breakers and tiny wires.

In my country running 240V, most household items don't require more than 15A sockets, and my Clothes Dryer plugs into a regular 13A socket. (regular house dryers are about 2400 watts or so).

The only thing that requires 20A are airconds, water heater, and maybe some stoves with more power requirements.

I have yet to see anything requiring 50A in a typical household.

Maybe in the US, with 110V you might need to double the amperage for typical household items. For instance, you'll need 30A for a 3000 watt dryer.... not sure what sort of dryer uses 50A (must be industrial strength or those they put in apartments.)
post #9083 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

This is the kind of posts I kept reading before I had my 2 dedicated 20 amp lines run. Unfortunately it is not enough, I've tripped the breaker once on almost every demo I've done. Granted the levels are insane but still... sucks that it can happen at all.
Was this with the amp in the SubM HPs which are Speakerpower amps or are you referring to the CV that you currently have . The reason I ask is the Speakerpower amps are extremely efficient and the CV is not. I have 2 SubM HPs plugged into a single 20 amp and Never tripped a breaker with the subs (knock on wood). When it comes to drawing power from the outlet and delivering it to the subwoofer Speakerpower amps are on a different level then almost all pro amps.
Chris

More efficient yes. But they can still trip 20 amp dedicated breakers. We did it at my place at the 2012 subwoofer meet with a pair of orbit shifters on one dedicated 20 amp.

I'll also almost guarantee very few people run demos louder than carp.

PennyNike and Gorilla83 might be contenders.
post #9084 of 18375
.
Edited by jlpowell84 - 8/2/13 at 9:52pm
post #9085 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

More efficient yes. But they can still trip 20 amp dedicated breakers. We did it at my place at the 2012 subwoofer meet with a pair of orbit shifters on one dedicated 20 amp..
I really enjoy reading about how the KC gang punishes equipment. It gives us a perspective of what can be done and just how much it takes to push the limits. IMO the information you guys provide is more valuable than measurements or in room responses. I want to know just how hard I can push my equipment before something gives.smile.gif

How do you think 2 x CV-5000 would do on one dedicated 20 amp breaker? I have just assumed it would blow the breaker quicker and more often then 2 x Speakerpower 4000.

I think that 1 x OS or S2 with that amp could be plugged into a dedicated 15amp breaker with little to no problem. Extreme volumes being the exception.
Chris
post #9086 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

More efficient yes. But they can still trip 20 amp dedicated breakers. We did it at my place at the 2012 subwoofer meet with a pair of orbit shifters on one dedicated 20 amp.

I'll also almost guarantee very few people run demos louder than carp.

PennyNike and Gorilla83 might be contenders.

I have to say, there were at least a dozen of us that stuck around in the main listening area when we started getting to insane levels at Rilla's g2g. I didn't have any issue listening at the levels we did and have often gone that hard before in my theater. I actually gave the old man a demo last night and had him sucked into the back of the seat at about +10dB for a hot second. He loved it smile.gif
post #9087 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


I really enjoy reading about how the KC gang punishes equipment. It gives us a perspective of what can be done and just how much it takes to push the limits. IMO the information you guys provide is more valuable than measurements or in room responses. I want to know just how hard I can push my equipment before something gives.smile.gif

How do you think 2 x CV-5000 would do on one dedicated 20 amp breaker? I have just assumed it would blow the breaker quicker and more often then 2 x Speakerpower 4000.

I think that 1 x OS or S2 with that amp could be plugged into a dedicated 15amp breaker with little to no problem. Extreme volumes being the exception.
Chris

It is good to know the limits and fun to occasionally go all out with these high performance systems (that's why we own them).

I have two 20 amp and three 15 amp circuits in the HT room. I have my W4S amps running off of one 20 amp circuit and the OS's are running off of dedicated 15 and 20 amp circuits. The other two 15's are for electronics and the projector. I have never tripped a breaker in a demo let alone regular use. I think that load balancing is important and that is simple math. I have no need nor desire to bring more power into the room.

If you are tripping breakers regularly then something is wrong and should be addressed. Substandard wiring, non-dedicated circuits, power hog (i.e. inefficient) amps or running the subs very hot may be the culprit but tripping breakers is not safe nor good for your expensive gear IMHO. smile.gif
Edited by RMK! - 8/3/13 at 7:53am
post #9088 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

More internal volume would take less watts to drive the subwoofers so the amp and woofer become more efficient. Whether or not you could hear a difference would be debatable. For 3 grand the S2 cannot be beat, unless you go DIY, and for 4 grand the SubM HP M/S combo is a great deal. I have a pair of SubM HPs and I would not trade them for a S2 but I would for two. Both offers give you exactly what you pay for. An OS would give the most performance to $$$ between the 3.
Chris

So if an S2 cap was bigger and had more internal volume which made the amplifier more efficient then would that mean more headroom?
post #9089 of 18375
The best information one can get is to measure in their own room and see what the limits are thru compression and THD sweeps.

Having said that I wish I could go to these GTGs as I would have a ball!
post #9090 of 18375
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

The best information one can get is to measure in their own room and see what the limits are thru compression and THD sweeps.

Having said that I wish I could go to these GTGs as I would have a ball!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

The best information one can get is to measure in their own room and see what the limits are thru compression and THD sweeps.

Having said that I wish I could go to these GTGs as I would have a ball!

I get to go to a GTG next month in Seattle! My first!
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