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Official JTR speaker thread - Page 306

post #9151 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

Interesting conversation on surrounds. I'm also looking at 6 speakers for surrounds to compliment the 212's as LCR. I was thinking of going with dipoles as the surrounds but concerned about integration with the 212's. What's everyone else using for surrounds? Would S8's be ideal? Thx.

I've also been wondering about dipoles. I sometimes feel that the sound coming from my side surrounds is too pinpoint/directional, not so much from the rear surrounds.

That and the fact that I'm almost all 2 channel only with music makes me think I might want dipoles.

I liked yours even though I did not like my old Axiom m60 setup so that says a lot to me right there.
post #9152 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

It's the opposite on the 212's, more sound is dispersed up and down than left and right so when you are looking at it the oval looks tall rather than fat.
In this case they would be a poor choice for surrounds.smile.gif
Chris
post #9153 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


In this case they would be a poor choice for surrounds.smile.gif
Chris

Good point Chris. I did hear the 228's as surrounds at dlbeck's GTG and it was over the top impressive however I was placed more or less in line with the speakers. Probably not the best for a room with 2 rows like I have now.
post #9154 of 18648
I will look into changing it around. my center has to be horizontal due to the location of where it goes.
post #9155 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post


. I believe someone just purchased 7 Single 8's and an S2 sub for a small HT room. Looking forward to hearing about that install.cool.gif
After the NE GTG, I said that anyone looking for a kick @$$ 5.2-7.2 should look to the single 8's all around with a pair of caps! That would be one incredible system.
post #9156 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

After the NE GTG, I said that anyone looking for a kick @$$ 5.2-7.2 should look to the single 8's all around with a pair of caps! That would be one incredible system.
This would be a 9.2 system with 4 side surrounds and 2 in the back. Just concerned about the directness on the sides.
Edited by dlbeck - 8/9/13 at 6:35pm
post #9157 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

It's the opposite on the 212's, more sound is dispersed up and down than left and right so when you are looking at it the oval looks tall rather than fat.
Carp are you saying the 60 degree is vertical dispersion and the 40 deg is horizontal dispersion?
post #9158 of 18648
This is getting funny now, regarding the center speaker and rotation of the horn. I spoke with someone at JTR today (not Jeff) and he told me there
were two slight ridges inside the horn that I could feel with my finger. I was quite busy today but I took a couple of minutes to check my center speaker and found
no ridges. No oval and no ridges. I'll check the other two speakers later for ridges. Oh well.

I like the looks of these speakers more in person than in the pics I had seen. I think they are cool, clean and bad##s looking! Yesterday I listened to a Stones Cd
and later Randy Travis. This weekend I'll give them a movie workout.

My stands are supposed to ship next week and that leaves one big decision left, the sub/subs.
post #9159 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Are you sure about that Chris? I thought the T8's and S8's use the exact same CD/coax. confused.gif
This is just my guess so if its wrong I would love to find out the correct info. I have been trying to figure it out on my own.
The S8 lists a NEO mag CD while the T8, T12, and 228 use the ceramic CDs.
I think the BMS 4550 ceramic vs BMS 4552 NEO
I think the 228 and T8 only differs in the horn vs a fitted coaxial midrange and XO
Chris

The older models (before 2011) may have the same CD.

You are right.

Jeff mentioned during the NE GTG that S8 uses a more expensive higher end driver.
post #9160 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicators View Post

You are right.

Jeff mentioned during the NE GTG that S8 uses a more expensive higher end driver.

Oh man, I wish he would have offered an upgrade option on the 228HT's then to use that higher end CD.
post #9161 of 18648
it's advisable to get an amp with higher headroom so that it can play loud and clean. jPYb
post #9162 of 18648
Seems there is a lot of confusion about drivers and horn orientation. To bad Jeff seldom checks these forums as he is the guy with the definitive answers. But it is fun to speculate so I say:

1. The T8 and S8 CD/Coax are the same
2. The horn dispersion of the 212 is 60/40 horizontal/vertical

Probably wrong on both counts tongue.gif
Edited by RMK! - 8/10/13 at 12:00am
post #9163 of 18648
After looking at pictures on the JTR forum of the 2ax and 3tx the 2ax cd appears to be the BMS 4552 neo with its six bolt design. It also states the 228 and 2ax share the same CD/Horn. Mabey the 228 and S8 share the same Neodymiun magnet CD. That would explain a clarity difference on the higher frequency range over the T8 and higher XO at 1000hz.
Hopefully enough incorrect guesses and bad information will drawl Jeff out since he does hold all the answers.biggrin.gif
I would like to change my guess to T8 & T12 same CD while the 228 & S8 both use the same NEO drivers.
I also think a horn coverage pattern would be emphasized on the width for a wider dispersion while the vertical would benefit from a more narrow dispersion pattern to avoid ceiling and floor reflections. HT rooms are wider than they are tall.
My Seos 12 waveguides are wider than they are tall.
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 8/10/13 at 12:39pm
post #9164 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Seems there is a lot of confusion about drivers and horn orientation. To bad Jeff seldom checks these forums as he is the guy with the definitive answers. But it is fun to speculate so I say:

1. The T8 and S8 CD/Coax are the same
2. The horn dispersion of the 212 is 60/40 horizontal/vertical

Probably wrong on both counts tongue.gif
my vote is #1 is incorrect, I think the T8 and S8 have different CD. I also vote #2 is correct 60 wide 40 tall. I could be wrong on both counts because I am just guessing but at least then ou are right on one Rob.wink.gif
post #9165 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Oh man, I wish he would have offered an upgrade option on the 228HT's then to use that higher end CD.

Yep, I am with you on that one.
post #9166 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Oh man, I wish he would have offered an upgrade option on the 228HT's then to use that higher end CD.
After comparing the pictures on the JTR forum section Pro Audio the 2ax has the same CD/horn as the 228. Go to the BMS website and compare it to the 4552. They appear to be the same. I have 4 x 4550s sitting in front of me now and they are different then the pictures of the 2ax. My guess is the 228 contains the same as the S8 which would make the combination a seamless match. Jeff has some of the cds custom made so that could explain visual differences. There has to be a reason other than the horn for why the 228 performs better with better clarity than the T8, a NEO mag CD would explain it. The Neo CD would cover the higher frequency range while trading off the lower end to a higher XO. The other CD would cover a broader frequency range so it gives up a little top end but can be XO lower. Both have trade offs and the Neo magnetic CD list price is $100 more.
Chris

This is a great discussion to have b/c I am confused and need a little straightening out.smile.gifeek.gif
Edited by countryWV - 8/10/13 at 7:03am
post #9167 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post

my vote is #1 is incorrect, I think the T8 and S8 have different CD. I also vote #2 is correct 60 wide 40 tall. I could be wrong on both counts because I am just guessing but at least then ou are right on one Rob.wink.gif

I guess I thought the 60 was vertical since the oval in the horn is taller than it is wide but what you guys are saying makes a lot more sense.
post #9168 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I guess I thought the 60 was vertical since the oval in the horn is taller than it is wide but what you guys are saying makes a lot more sense.

Looking at the CD with a flashlight I had thd same initial impression but if you look at the actual horn flareing, it tells s different story. Logically (as Chris and LB stated) the H dispersion would be greater than the V.
post #9169 of 18648
You people and your fancy speakers. Haha. I hope to be in the club and learn the Hand shake soon. Enjoy!!!! Some of us are very envious.
post #9170 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7channelfreak View Post

You people and your fancy speakers. Haha. I hope to be in the club and learn the Hand shake soon. Enjoy!!!! Some of us are very envious.

Fancy? ... no. Incredibly satisfying? ... you bet! cool.gif
post #9171 of 18648
This may shed some light on the CD mystery. I have not had a chance to hear or see any JTR speakers, but did find this post from Jeff here on AVS from nearly 2 years ago stating that the T12 uses the BMS 4540ND. I have both 4550's (Yorkville Unities and some raw drivers) and 4540ND's (JBL 322CT 12" coax w/2407H 1" CD...which is a 4540ND licensed from BMS). BIG difference in size between these two... wink.gif
post #9172 of 18648
I have always heard that the Noesis has either the 4593 or 4594 - could be wrong about that too though.
post #9173 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I have always heard that the Noesis has either the 4593 or 4594 - could be wrong about that too though.
This is correct.
Chris
post #9174 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post

This may shed some light on the CD mystery. I have not had a chance to hear or see any JTR speakers, but did find this post from Jeff here on AVS from nearly 2 years ago stating that the T12 uses the BMS 4540ND. I have both 4550's (Yorkville Unities and some raw drivers) and 4540ND's (JBL 322CT 12" coax w/2407H 1" CD...which is a 4540ND licensed from BMS). BIG difference in size between these two... wink.gif
That is a good catch. Thanks for posting it.
Chris
post #9175 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

Interesting conversation on surrounds. I'm also looking at 6 speakers for surrounds to compliment the 212's as LCR. I was thinking of going with dipoles as the surrounds but concerned about integration with the 212's. What's everyone else using for surrounds? Would S8's be ideal? Thx.
This has always been an interesting discussion indeed. I had the same dilemma when deciding for my dedicated room. In researching this subject (dipole/bipole vs monopole) there was no real correct answer, it came down to personal preference. After deciding to get the room professionally designed the designer preferred dipoles as surrounds. Especially in my situation as the room wasn't very wide and preferred to have as many seats as possible. Having seats close to the side walls is the real problem, sitting within a couple of feet of a monople side surround speaker will create an overpowering localized sound. Having a dipole speaker in this situation would be ideal as there is a null directly in front of the speaker. Sound then arrives at the listening position in a more subtle but distinguished manner. I chose the Triad Gold on wall speakers for side and rear surround duties. There are a few advantages using these in my setup, firstly I have seats close to the side walls, and secondly aesthetics. I wanted all my speakers in the room to be hidden and without the use of columns. This meant using fabric walls for the side and rear walls and without eating up valuable space within the room. The Triad Gold on wall surrounds are only 4 inches in depth.
I haven't finished the room yet so can't comment on how they intergrate with the 212HT's but have listened to a complete Triad Gold setup and was very impressed. I'm thinking having the 212HT's up front together with an S2 will sound even better.
Will let you guys know once finished and calibrated, although its still a few months away.. frown.gif
post #9176 of 18648
GetReal -sounds like we are in the same boat. I had Erskine design my theater as well and they spec Procella's or Triads. I would like to go a full JTR setup but you nailed my concern in your response. I'm looking at the Triad Bronze surrounds as well. Maybe should go that route but fear they will not integrate with the 212's. I already have dual S2's so plan on putting one in the front and one in the back. Was also wondering if it would help selling one of my S2's and getting two S1's so I can spread them out further in the back. Decisions...decisions.
post #9177 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

GetReal -sounds like we are in the same boat. I had Erskine design my theater as well and they spec Procella's or Triads. I would like to go a full JTR setup but you nailed my concern in your response. I'm looking at the Triad Bronze surrounds as well. Maybe should go that route but fear they will not integrate with the 212's. I already have dual S2's so plan on putting one in the front and one in the back. Was also wondering if it would help selling one of my S2's and getting two S1's so I can spread them out further in the back. Decisions...decisions.
Do you plan on having 212's or 228's up front? If 212's and budget allows then go for the Triad Golds. Actually even if running the 228's I'd still recommend the Triad Golds as there isn't a huge difference between the 212's and 228's when watching movies from what I've read in this thread, not personal experience.
As far as rear sub goes I have not much room behind the rear seats, although an S2 would fit behind there my designer preferred me run a Triad on wall sub. I wanted to have something bigger like an S1 but he said that running the on wall sub negates the 1st and 3rd standing waves in height. Not overly convinced but he is qualified in this field so will give it a go and see what its like when done. I even mentioned running a second S2 up front but said I won't need to, he preferred I spent the money elsewhere, like on a better projector.
I'm running extra cabling for both the front and rear for additional subs later on, after all, you can't have too much bass right??? But then again it's all about the in room response having each seat in the room as the 'money seat' which is the goal.
post #9178 of 18648
Planning on the 212's up front. What's the price difference between the Bronze and gold? I would rather spend money elsewhere than on better surrounds but open to suggestions. I am also debating the in column mid-room subs. Wonder if an S2 in the back and one in the front and 2 mid-wall subs would be too much? Probably not. :-)
post #9179 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

Planning on the 212's up front. What's the price difference between the Bronze and gold? I would rather spend money elsewhere than on better surrounds but open to suggestions. I am also debating the in column mid-room subs. Wonder if an S2 in the back and one in the front and 2 mid-wall subs would be too much? Probably not. :-)
Not sure on price difference between surrounds, never looked into that. As far as running 4 subs? Not sure but if you have the room and the funds I'd say that's going to be one hell of an experience!!!
post #9180 of 18648
Quote:
Originally Posted by GETREAL95 View Post

Do you plan on having 212's or 228's up front? If 212's and budget allows then go for the Triad Golds. Actually even if running the 228's I'd still recommend the Triad Golds as there isn't a huge difference between the 212's and 228's when watching movies from what I've read in this thread, not personal experience.
As far as rear sub goes I have not much room behind the rear seats, although an S2 would fit behind there my designer preferred me run a Triad on wall sub. I wanted to have something bigger like an S1 but he said that running the on wall sub negates the 1st and 3rd standing waves in height. Not overly convinced but he is qualified in this field so will give it a go and see what its like when done. I even mentioned running a second S2 up front but said I won't need to, he preferred I spent the money elsewhere, like on a better projector.
I'm running extra cabling for both the front and rear for additional subs later on, after all, you can't have too much bass right??? But then again it's all about the in room response having each seat in the room as the 'money seat' which is the goal.

You keep referring to Triad Gold.......................are you talking about Gold LCR's or Gold Surrounds? Either way, in a narrow room where seating distance is less than 5-6 ft from surrounds, Gold Surrounds would be the ticket...................Gold LCR's would be overkill for surrounds IMHO.

With most source material, surrounds will play 10 db's below the front's.............so Gold Surrounds can and will keep up with the Noesis 212's- just don't sit in the null!!!! I'm using Triad Silver LCR's for surrounds and am happy with output.........they are cruising along with no issues while my Gold LCR's are a blazing!

The Noesis 212's are fine speakers.............came real, real close to purchasing 3 speakers for the front stage...........but came to the conclusion they were overkill for my application and engineer treatments were set up for Triad Golds. With my use, 212's would not be used for their intent and purpose.............I will say, I was impressed with the 212's.

What is with these designers? biggrin.gif I too was spec-ed with two Triad Bronze subs in the columns..............but I'm looking to add another Cap to the S2 which I have not received yet or add two Triad Cinema Pluses ..............all depends on how the S2 measures out.

BTW............... dual OS's I heard were unbelievable.................eek.gif
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