*Official* Optoma HD20 Thread - Page 6

I still don't think it makes sense to purposefully set out to make 2 different models so close to each other with different components.

I for one will be interested in your comparison of the HD20 and HD200X.

I think the reason for the existence of both the HD20 and HD200X are probably something along the lines of:

1) Because the HD20/200X is such a budget projector, Optoma is likely taking less care in the manufacturing process of this projector than their more expensive ones. Such a practice would result in a wider variation in performance (due to lower margins of tolerance in the Q/C). (Perhaps most of this comes in the form of variation in light leakage due to cutting corners in the way the case is produced, etc, which would have modest impact on lumen output ant contrast performance).

The HD20 and HD200X are therefor the identical projector with identical components - except that the HD20s are probably hand picked as the better performing units - or the units which meet a certain rating.

In such a scenario, what is more than likely to happen, is that with each successive production run, any current variation in performance will diminish, and Optoma will end up selling HD20s and HD200Xs with smaller and smaller performance deltas until the time comes when most HD200Xs will perform equivalently to HD20s- which may be happening for the most part already.

2) Alternatively, perhaps their 1st production run was not quite up to their preconceived standards and these are the units being sold as HD200Xs. This would also fit with why the HD200X was released before the HD20. In this scenario, the HD200X will be phased out and replaced with HD20s. Why Optoma Canada got these units first is another question..

This isn't so far-fetched - Optoma has been selling renamed slightly under-performing models at Costco over the years - which is where the HD200X was first sold in Canada.

Either these units have firmware issues or i definitely got a defective unit. I have been playing around with the projector and i noticed a few things.

1) When i play my xbox360 and take my hdmi cord out of that and put it in my comcast cable box my projector freezes. At this point my only option is to turn off the projector. I tried it the other way around as well and same thing.

After putting about 8hours on the bulb i started to notice the projector not wanting to turn its self off. I would hit the shut down button and it would turn off, then the fan stays on and just stays in the cooling stage. The green light blinks, the fan stays on and blows cold air out of the projector. I left it on for 30mins thinking maybe it needs time to cool off, at that point i decided to unplug the unit.

I'm just trying to find out if anyone else is having issues, if not then i need to get mine replaced. If so then its either a defective firmware or a bad batch.

If anyone can test the hdmi thing for me that would be great. Basically just take your hdmi from one source while the projector is on, and put it into another source and see if new source comes up. Example would be turn on xbox360 after you see the system load up, pull the hdmi cord and plug it into anything else and see if the new device loads up on the screen without freezing.

As for the fan issue, its only happened 2 times out of the 10 times i've turn it on and off. Anyone else have this issue?

Sorry to hear you maybe having problems.

A couple of things to consider:

1. The HDMI HDCP connection can be very fussy, Plugging and unplugging the cable causes it to go through a back and forth communication between the two devices which may take 20-30secs to verify HDCP.

2. There is a button on the remote and PJ to re-sync you can try this once make a new connection or change resolution; if you don't get a picture.

3. Don't forget to select the source manually as Auto modes again take some time to sync and can be fussy.

4. Off needs to be pressed twice, try giving a second between pushes.
Avoid unnecessary power cycling it reduces the life of the lamp.
Simple rule, if you turn -on leave on for at least a couple of hours or don't turn it on at all.

Hope you this might help.
Rew

xbox 360 is a little notorious for a poor hdmi implementation. I had an acer ph530 for a while with a denon reciever and it was a nightmare to get those components to get along.

After weeks of screwin around I finally had a system of turning on the xbox and the projector, then 30 seconds later the receiver, and then it HAD to load a game immediately... if it went to the dashboard it would either fail the handshake and blink, or just freeze.

Even now with my hd65, the handshakes are fine, however getting 5.1 from an hdmi cable only happens about 20% of the time. I had to get the adapter and run optical. My cable box is a bit older and it's hdmi is a joke as well.

My ps3 and htpc are rock solid with any device however. I share your frustration, I know exactly how annoying things like this are, I'm just saying it may not be all the HD20's fault. It could even come down to cables not working right between different components... it's a messy interface for being just 1 cable.

Anyhow I look forward to seeing how you resolve it, even if it is a replacement. I try to avoid this problem as much as possible... and I'm almost certain I want a HD20 in the next month or 2.

Does anyone know if I have some light on in my basement if the image will still look good with this pj? My light will be behind my projector. I am looking for a projector in my basement, but with two little kids also know the lights will not always be able to be completely off. Thanks

How about some screenshots guys? This is an amazing price, but just wondering on the quality of the product and picture.

I think those that got teir PJ's Friday are busy enjoying!

Hopefully they will remember us and post some good info and SS soon.

Rew

I currently have an Optoma H31 on a stand that is approximately 16' away from a 110" pulldown screen. Truthfully, I have no idea whether my current projector is set up properly, with regards to keystone or whatnot; all I know is it's a decent picture that fills the screen.

With that said, will the HD20 be able to sit in the same spot and fill the 110" screen? I could move it forward nearly 4' closer, but it's more out of the way where I currently have it. Also, if I slightly increased the screen to 120", would the HD20 be able to work in my distances?

Thanks for any input.

If the projector sits in the same spot you will need a bigger screen, at 16 feet away it shoots 122" to 147", or move the projector between 12 and 14 feet and then move the screen up because of the different offset. Maybe go with bigger screen

Thanks for the tips but i actually tried everything you said before you posted it. I would remove the hdmi from my xbox and plug it into my wdtv player and the projector would freeze at a black screen. Then i would wait 1-2mins and hit auto resync and press hdmi 1 on the remote, and it still didn't work. I then turned off the projector, waited 5 mins, then turned the unit back on and it worked. I have had to do this many times and im really getting irritated about it. The unit's fan has stayed on to where it doesnt turn off either. Last night when i turned it off the fan stayed on fro 45min and i gave up and just unplugged the unit. Its the second time its done this, doesnt do it every time.

I'm definitely believing that this is a defective unit. I'll be sending optoma an e-mail today to see what they suggest.

As for the picture quality its really good, the blacks are decent and anyone that has a dark room will be happy. The image looks great with 1080p. The projectors blacks could be a little better, but i love the 1700lumens. I can play my xbox360 in a room with my lights on and still see the picture and be happy with it. The colors do fade a little with ambient light, but its not a movie and i dont need it to be perfect, still looks excellent to me.


Actually i didnt forget, I have just been having issues with the unit.

Well, I guess I am not the only one who skipped a few generations of projectors. I started out with a CRT projector in 1995, which I lived with happily for 9 years, and then upgraded to the NEC LT240K in 2004. That was a very nice projector for its price ($2000-2400) at the time. It was a business model with 1024x768 resolution, 2000 lumens (not ansi) and 2000:1 contrast (also not ansi). When you adjusted for better color in home theater, removing the white segment of the color wheel, it dropped the lumens by half. It still looked pretty bright. I have a room with lots of ambient light during the day (only three walls, can't really control it). I dalite high-power screen helped a lot.

So I have now upgraded to a 1080p Optoma HD20, which cost half what I paid for the NEC and is an astounding upgrade. I can't believe I was considering paying $500 for a new bulb for the NEC! After seeing the new picture my wife was high-fiving me--and she is not that particular or interested in A/V things, preferring generally to watch a small screen in the bedroom. To the author of the above quote--order one of these right away, you won't regret it! The NEC can make a nice spare, with its nice carrying case.

I'll detail some of my thoughts, from having spent a couple evenings with the HD20. I am comparing it necessarily to my previous projector, so I should say that over the years the NEC seemed to get dimmer and more wash-out looking. I went through three bulbs. I don't think they really lasted the 2-3000 hours they said they should. I found them dimming by 1000 hours. I also found the color wheel would start to get grime on it. I would swab the color wheel, but could only reach the side closest to the bulb (without disassembling the whole projector, which I never did). In recent months I found the picture difficult to watch, with very poor blacks, lots of light leakage, mediocre colors. I know a new bulb would have made lots of difference--it had nearly 2000 hours on it--but I also know that last time I upgraded the bulb its effect was not what I had hoped.

With that context, plugging in the Optoma and firing it up was a relevation. I set it up with a very light room, the curtains open, sun shining in right onto the screen, and yet the picture looked fabulous. I was never able to get a bright high-contrast picture like that with the NEC even when new. This screen is very watchable at pretty much any light level. Of course it is even better in a very dark room, but the brightness overall is great. Although I have a high-power screen, I don't feel a need to sit in the sweet spot--I can sit off to the side (as I am now). I also have an old 1.0 gain screen and shined it on that--still very bright. I think the brightness is great on any screen.

I have had bright mode off mostly, although when there is a lot of light in the room it provides a useful additional punch. A very nice feature is that you can change this from a button on the remote. The NEC required navigating setup menus to change this.

I found the calibration pretty good out of the box. I used the DVE disc, and found brightness and contrast settings to be very close to ideal. I switched to cinema mode, changed color temperature to medium (it defaults to warm). The color level starts out at 70--I adjusted that down to about 55 from the DVE calibration.

All these picture settings are good and easy enough to use. However I seem to find that they are always going back to defaults. I am not sure I just haven't been able to figure out how to save them, or that I am using different modes and each mode has different settings. I am hoping to resolve this, as it is so far my main complaint. The NEC was a more professional unit, with 4 different custom user setups, and it never forgot any settings you gave it. This unit doesn't seem to have anything like that. It's not a big deal to me--I don't mind checking settings before serious viewing. If others use it, they won't mess with settings and also won't probably care about PQ like I do. I also throw lots of different things at it--computer display, photographs, PS3, HD and SD TV. They tend to need different settings to look their best.

I am fortunate to also have a 1080p Samsung 23" monitor hooked up to my computer, with the computer feeding both devices. The monitor is calibrated using a Huey calibration device, which doesn't work on a projected image. I can compare the calibrated image on the monitor vs. the HD20 projected image. They are looking very close. The NEC image was so far off it was terrible. The monitor really showed up what it was missing. This includes color accuracy, color saturation, brightness, and black level details especially. The HD20 is very close to the Samsung in all those areas. However the HD20 image overall looks much, much better. Projected images have such a nice smooth look. The Samsung tends to need a lot of sharpening to keep text sharp, and has a lot of ringing artifacts when watching DVDs. DVDs look much better on the Optoma.

Blu-ray discs look amazing--I am now sold on Blu-ray! The PQ is better than any projected image I have ever seen (except maybe in a imax or a theater with dlp projection). The difference from DVD is very significant, and the sound just blows me away (I have a nice sound system).

Back to the original posters questions:
Yes, resolution is much better. If you were using the NEC at 16:9, you were getting 1024x576 pixels. I calculate the HD20 at 3.5x as many pixels--nearly double in both vertical and horizontal. This is huge. You have to get within about 6 inches of the screen to see pixels. I already talked about the brightness. Black levels are far improved--black detail is much much better. I used to have to really boost the black levels on the NEC or all black detail would be lost. Contrast is much better. I think the darkchip2 makes a big difference.

Also, we used to see rainbows (RBE) on the NEC. I sort of taught myself to see them, then taught myself not to see them, and moved on. My wife says she still notices them on the NEC. She cannot notice them at all on the HD20, and this was a big plus to her. She hadn't mentioned them in years, though--they hadn't bothered her that much. No guests who saw the NEC ever mentioned them. In any case, a much better color wheel. Eliminating the white segment is good also.

I have been playing blu-ray from a PS3, DVDs and HD satellite via component input (which I used with the NEC) and quality is great. I can see no improvement switching to HDMI, and the HDMI is a lot more slow and ugly when switching inputs. I have spoken with some local home theater installer friends, who advise to stick with component over HDMI if you already have your stuff wired that way. I think it bumps the Blu-ray down to 1080i instead of 1080p, but I cannot see a difference in picture quality. I guess that means the HD20 does a decent job of deinterlacing the signal.

Regarding physical positioning, I found I did not have to modify the distance of the projector to the screen from the NEC setup (it also had about a 1.5 throw ratio). The NEC is a 4:3 projector, but most material I watched used only part of the screen with 16:9. I plan to update the screen at some point. The only issue I ran into was with vertical offset. I have the projector mounted under a custom coffee table, on a shelf about six inches off the floor. The short vertical offset (about nine inches, for my 80 inch wide screen) was less than for the NEC. Also, since the bottom of the 16:9 screen is now lower than it was by anoth 6-8 inches (the NEC would center vertically on the 4:3 screen) I was off by a foot or more on projector height. I raised it six inches, but to go more would have required putting the projector on top of the table which I prefer not to do (more noise, more distraction, less table space).

I decided to experiment with the keystone and vertical image shift. I found I could tip the projector and compensate with keystone, as well as a bit of image shift, and get the screen position I wanted without any evident picture quality loss. To test, I used a computer image with lots of fine text in all areas of the screen, and could not see any blurring or issues with the text in any area of the screen. I would conclude from this that those that are worried about screen offset might find that the built-in functions can give them a reasonable solution.

Overall this is not as professional a system as the NEC--no carrying case, no presets, missing some features such as wireless and internet connection (which I never used). But for great picture quality with all sources--it completely blows away the NEC. There is simply no comparison. And I am comparing to how the NEC was when new (as I remember). It always had a bit of a green shift.

Watching movies on this thing is a great, exciting experience.

Thanks for info! Not really aiming it at you as I believe there was a couple of others who were also expecting to get them Friday too.

Truly am sorry for your problems, sure hope they can get you fixed quickly as I have had similar experience's and they can be very frustrating.

Rew

[quote=sharpnine;
Watching movies on this thing is a great, exciting experience.[/QUOTE]
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great post/review! thanks! i'm sold.
just gotta save up some sheckels so i can replace my panasonic ptl500 hd pj.

Thanks a lot sharpnine... Sounds like an excellent upgrade until the 3D LED/Laser projectors come out. That was a very accurate review of the LT240K too!

Thank you for such a great review. I had recently posted a thread asking if upgrading to 720 or 1080 would have a no question WOW factor, as I am also still running a LT240, and I could not have described a better comparison as you provided. Your input on the HDMI/component was very helpful as well. I do have a couple of questions that perhaps you can respond too:

IS the difference in HD similarly as draw dropping as the BR image?

Also, I know the PJ is housed in a special table, mine would be overhead, any notable difference with fan noise?

Thanks again for posting this you definitely have helped make my decision much easier.

How exactly does image shift work in a projector? Just curious.

This worries me... I seem to have read in one or two places now that it does it not save changes you make to contrast/brightness?

It saves you just have to change the user profile and not the preset profiles.

Your given 3 options from the factory and one option to control yourself. Other projectors give 2-3 user options, but only having 1 user option isn't that bad. You can still select from the factor ones as well. I wouldn't be surprised with a future firmware that not only enables 3d, but also enables more user options.

I am using cinema/Graphics on the settings and was able to change brightness/contrast and so on and it saved it.....

I had been concerned the upgrading from the NEC to a 720p projector would not be a big enough difference. In retrospect it probably would have been well worth it for brightness, contrast, color improvements etc. In any case the resolution boost is huge going from XGA to 1080p.


I am not sure what you mean. HD TV programs look very good with resolution comparable to blu-ray. I watched a hi-def baseball game today and it looked great. Again, a huge improvement. My wife has told me again and again what a great upgrade this is. I have a kid laid up with a broken leg, a very difficult recover, and it is helping us all to be able to watch the big screen during the day with a light room.

I am pretty sure the fan is quieter. I can't notice the sound of it at all except when I put my head down near it, whereas the NEC was quite audible (although still a pretty quiet projector). I notice this whenever I turn the projector on, because with the NEC I would hear the fan start up, which I don't hear now. The fan does make a lot of noise when you turn it off, for 30 seconds or so--it blows like crazy.

To all who followed up about settings--yes I think this is what I am seeing. Sometimes I see my settings have been saved and sometimes not--it is probably that I have changed modes (I have been trying different things) and made adjustments in those modes (which got lost).

I got spoiled on the NEC: it would not only automatically save different settings for every input, but if a given input got different types of signals (480p, 720p, 1024x768 rgb, etc.) it would save different settings for all of those. And those would all be part of the same "setting". Took a while to get them all adjusted, but from then on it was very automatic when switching.

Still, having a single customized setting is OK for me. If something has to be lacking in a budget projector I would much rather give up sophisticated settings and keep great picture quality. I'm a guy who enjoys listening to vinyl records--I don't mind some manual tweaking and don't need everything to be automatic, as long as it looks/sounds great.

Putting together a system that works great for both 2-channel hi-fi sound and home theater has been a huge challenge, and I think has been pretty successful, but that's way off topic for this thread...

Ok, Can owners who have this unit start posting thier settings?


I have mine at:







I would like to see other owners settings here...also maybe a tutorial on how to use Superwide with standard 16x9 screens and what is gamma curve and what does it do?


Thanks....

Ah, ok thanks. I thought it sounded unusual that these settings could not be saved. And one saved option is better than none at all.

I have the hd70 and I'm considering upgrading to this projector. I don't think that you're going to see much of a difference with HD ota/cable/sat since so many of the channels are compressed. I have TW cable and I think most of the channels I get are dvd quality at best. On top of that, some of the best broadcast HD is only 720p. I think that ABC/ESPN looks better than NBC/CBS for sports, Fox is somewhere in between.

As far as projector location goes, some screens (like mine) are directional. Grey screens usually need a table mount, but white screens can be ceiling mounted. As I understand it, you can still ceiling mount and use a grey screen, you just lose the gain which was why you got it in the first place!

PM me if you get the projector, I'd love to see it.

Greg

when I get home tonight i will check mine, but from looking at yours i think there almost identical settings. What i did in the beginning was i wrote down the cinema settings and used them in the user profile with some minor adjustments because i thought they wouldnt save i guess i was wrong they do save.

So I have what many of you will probably consider a stupid question... What visual difference would there be between the HD20 and a slightly higher end model. Specifically Epson's PowerLite Pro Cinema 7500 UB.

The reason I ask is because I was close to purchasing the Epson, but then had to scale back my budget. I saw the Epson in a HT store and really really liked the picture (on an approx 100" screen). Now, this screen was in a room with partial light control and a fair amount of ambient light was coming into the demo room. My room will have full light control, dark walls, etc.

I don't think I'll be able to see the HD20 in a demo, as nowhere near me is carrying it at the moment. Based on reviews so far it sounds like this budget projector puts up a great image, I just don't want to get it hoping to see a something similar to what that Epson was displaying and then be disappointed and wished I had waited to save up the $$.

I am not too concerned about some of the other options mentioned (like internet, saving multiple settings, etc) but really just want to make sure I don't get a picture that I'm disappointed in.

Any input on this topic is appreciated. Thanks!

Don't lump cable, sat, and OTA all into that. Unless your local stations are multicasting like 4 channels into the same space, OTA is very high quality, and the 1080i stations can look amazing. Not Blu-Ray quality of course, but still quite the step up. And cable HD can still get a great upgrade going to 1080i, of course depending on the cable system and the channel and what you are watching. Even a channel like Food HD can look great at 1080i over cable, because there doesn't tend to be lots of motion, so it compresses well.


...but you only have a 720p projector, so of course the channels that will look best on it will be the 720p ones, as they won't have to be scaled down.

I don't own either of these projectors (yet), but just looking at the stats, here's what I can tell. The Optoma has a much better contrast within a single frame, the Epson has much better contrast between bright frames and dark frames (due to a variable iris making dark frames darker and bright frames brighter). The Optoma is DLP and the Epson is 3-chip LCD - check out this article for how that affects things.

wc97,

Without any official reviews on the HD20 yet, it's hard to make the call. I'd say that the Epson 6100 would make a great compromise for you if you originally wanted the 7500. I would recommend the Epson 6500, but that is still quite a price tag. The 6100 can be found for less then $2000. You could contact one of the sponsors sales rep here and see if they would cut you a nice deal. It never hurts to ask. I would first look up Jason Turk here at AVS and see what kind of deal he may be able to work with you on.

Otherwise, I'd wait for some decent and thorough reviews of the HD20 before dropping that far back from your intended purchase. They say you do get what you pay for and for a $1000 budget projector to hold it's on against a $3000+ projector would be quite an accomplishment.


*6 years of lurking... and i finally hit my 100 post count! haha .. yea me!

[quote=Pringals;16975240]wc97,

Otherwise, I'd wait for some decent and thorough reviews of the HD20 before dropping that far back from your intended purchase. They say you do get what you pay for and for a $1000 budget projector to hold it's on against a $3000+ projector would be quite an accomplishment.

While in general I would agree but one thing is for sure in Electronics Time can yield some significant improvements both in cost and quality!

As you say we will have to wait and see but initial impressions seem rather good.

Rew