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*Official* Optoma HD20 Thread - Page 67

post #1981 of 3969
Even though I got ripped off into paying the extra $150 I did receive my projector yesterday. Obviously, I am not satisfied with Deltacamera, but I am very amazed by the projector. Do not even have a screen for the projector yet and I am using an off white wall and the picture quality is still amazing. Directv, my Macpro, and a PS3 are hooked up to the projector and they all look great. A projector of this quality must have cost $3k plus 2-3 years ago.

Also, one question I had, are bulb replacements hard to do yourself or do you have to have a professional do them?
post #1982 of 3969
ok, well today I called them and told them enough is enough and asked to speak to the guy that that said there was nothing wrong with my pj,


he told me that everyones hd 20 has this color issue, because its a illumination effect made from inside the projector, I was like ok , whatever,


I find it funny , that I have been here telling people what I see on my projector and noone else ahs mentioned that theirs has the same issue
post #1983 of 3969
can you take a screenshot?
post #1984 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirtis_mcleskey View Post

ok, well today I called them and told them enough is enough and asked to speak to the guy that that said there was nothing wrong with my pj,


he told me that everyones hd 20 has this color issue, because its a illumination effect made from inside the projector, I was like ok , whatever,


I find it funny , that I have been here telling people what I see on my projector and noone else ahs mentioned that theirs has the same issue

I just got mine back from Optoma Repair of California. If you give me directions on how to test, I will check for your issue on mine. I am also going to try making a video of the issue I sent mine in for that Optoma says they know about but will not fix or swap.
post #1985 of 3969
Have had mine since Sep and have not observed this aberration.

What size is your screen? I only use a 80" screen.

If you have a large screen it maybe in part why you are seeing this. Optics at there extreme settings can show rather odd problems.

Rew
post #1986 of 3969
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeaW5HkGD04

This is a video I just made. Description below that I also used in Youtube. Some formating done here.

Watch the bottom edge of the moving window.

Optoma HD20 Projector testing of minor refresh flaw. I didn't make a video before sending it in for repair. But it came with the latest C07 firmware. And still has the same firmware.

Yet I am pretty sure the issue affected way more pixels on the bottom row than you now see in this video. This video is after I sent it to Optoma Repair in California.

They said this issue is known and there is no plans to fix it. Yet it seems like less pixels affected now. I can live with this. It doesn't really show up in normal movie watching and game playing. This is with Windows 7 via HDMI. I occurs with multiple computers and also the PS3. Though for testing it's easier to show with controlled horizontal movement.

I have also taken photos to show the other issue someone mentioned about the color/tint uniformity. I will post those soon. But I will say, that even tested at 6" or 124", I thought the tint uniformity issue was so ultra minor that I am shocked they even noticed. I am about to post the photos.
post #1987 of 3969
Here is my HD20's black uniformity with the bulb on low. Forgive my test screen. It's just tacked to the wall. But will eventually be a clean and tight 124" 16x9 DIY floating screen.

I have one pic on paper with a 6" diag image really close to the HD20 bulb on low. And the 2nd pic is the temp wall screen with the image at 124" diag bulb still on low. Black image via HDMI from Laptop.

At least on monitor, it's pretty darn close to how it actually looks. I have also included a desktop wallpaper to show that you can't seem to see the issue with an image on the screen, even with no movement. I also just watched some dark scenes in Sherlock Holmes and don't notice the color tint uniformity. BUT, I do notice the poor black levels a lot. I know it will improve when my walls and ceiling are ultra dark, near black, dark grey. But I can tell that the extra brightness than my previous HD70 is really squashig the black levels. I even had my HD70 at 100" on low bulb. I think this HD20 really needs to be more like 150+ inches for nicer blacks. Just my opinion.

Below: Same test setup, just with a desktop wallpaper to show tint uniformity looks fine with an image. Blacks are certainly blacker in the photos.


Below: Black tint uniformity at 124" diag image projection, no ambient light, minimal wall reflection. Test screen tacked to wall. White 1.0 gain.


Below: Black tint uniformity at 6" diag image projection, no ambient light, minimal wall reflection. White paper.


Below: macro of the 124" image, same setup and time. Shows grey border around image from projector. Shows how different the black level is from the projector versus the white screen in the same room that looks pitch black in the image. So image the black screen looking dark grey and how grey that projected black border is. Is you are happy with Darkchip2 like the HD70, the blacks are a little lighter due to the brighter bulb even in low mode.
post #1988 of 3969
Well the uniformity pictures you posted probably explain what I have been calling a "sheen" in the lower left of my screen. I've sanded and resprayed it 3 times to get rid of that but I can't and I can't see it unless the projector is on. Hmmm. I'll live with it.
post #1989 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by aggoodin View Post

Well the uniformity pictures you posted probably explain what I have been calling a "sheen" in the lower left of my screen. I've sanded and resprayed it 3 times to get rid of that but I can't and I can't see it unless the projector is on. Hmmm. I'll live with it.

Yeah, I really think the tint/black uniformity on a larger screen (not 6" test paper) is really no issue. My camera tends to pick up the blue more than the red. So in order to get the red tint in the large image to actually show up, the blues are much brighter in the pic than in real life. My wife barely even noticed it AFTER I pointed it out with all black displayed. With any kind of content, I never see it.

And now that I have my HD20 back from repair, I swear my bottom pixel row lag is only a few rows now. I swearing it was more than that before. So now it's no big deal since when the screen is done, I usually have a few pixels into the border.

I did notice a fairly strong blue to purple top fringing to high contrast edges. As you can see with the white text. But at normal viewing distances you don't really notice it. And it certainly isn't noticable in videos or gaming.

Still, for me, the extra brightness of the HD20 versus the HD70 has make the black levels worse compared to the HD70. For medium to bright movies, like daytime scenes and most CGI & cartoon family/Pixar films, it's great the the contrast makes the blacks look black in a dark painted room. But movies with lots of black like space scenes, V for Vendetta, Sherlock Holmes, Master and Commander, etc; the dark scenes have enough dark details. But the black level is really very grey even on bulb low at 124" screen size.

I wish I could either reduce the brightness of the bulb further without a filter in front of the projector, or that I could make the screen way bigger. But my room won't allow that. So I am really trying to decide if I should return the HD20 and get the Panasonic AE4000U. But my issue with LCD is in Phoenix there is a ton of dust and I don't want to have to clean out dust blobs all the time. Plus Costco doesn't sell the AE4000, and it's about twice as much. hmmmm.
post #1990 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by aggoodin View Post

Well the uniformity pictures you posted probably explain what I have been calling a "sheen" in the lower left of my screen. I've sanded and resprayed it 3 times to get rid of that but I can't and I can't see it unless the projector is on. Hmmm. I'll live with it.

I just re-read your post again and thought that maybe you actually think it's your screen and not the projector. But now I am not sure. I originally thought that you mean you thought it was the screen but now you know it's the projector.

With the paper test at 6" image size, it's obvious that it's the projector. But I wasn't quite sure if your post was saying you came to the conclusion yourself already.
post #1991 of 3969
hey guys i'm about to pick up the 200 and i was wondering what is currently the best calibiration method?

i belive i have the Avia calibiration DVD but i think it may be dated? is there anything newer and better? the Avia i have comes with the 3 color shaded glasses etc.
post #1992 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by knoxvegas98 View Post

I ordered this projector on the internet and called the sales company. The guy told me that the projector comes with only a 100 hour sample bulb and that I would have to pay $150 more for a 3000 hour bulb. Is this normal? I assumed the projector came with a 3000 hour bulb. Did I Get ripped off?

I would avoid places like that. Treat them like they are a raging STD!
post #1993 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by knoxvegas98 View Post

oh also, the retailer is deltacamera.

9 times out of 10 any place with the name Camera is not a good place to buy... Seriously.
post #1994 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by knoxvegas98 View Post

Even though I got ripped off into paying the extra $150 I did receive my projector yesterday. Obviously, I am not satisfied with Deltacamera, but I am very amazed by the projector. Do not even have a screen for the projector yet and I am using an off white wall and the picture quality is still amazing. Directv, my Macpro, and a PS3 are hooked up to the projector and they all look great. A projector of this quality must have cost $3k plus 2-3 years ago.

Also, one question I had, are bulb replacements hard to do yourself or do you have to have a professional do them?

It's not hard at all. Takes about 5 mins not counting taking it down from the ceiling mount.
post #1995 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon2000 View Post

Still, for me, the extra brightness of the HD20 versus the HD70 has make the black levels worse compared to the HD70. For medium to bright movies, like daytime scenes and most CGI & cartoon family/Pixar films, it's great the the contrast makes the blacks look black in a dark painted room. But movies with lots of black like space scenes, V for Vendetta, Sherlock Holmes, Master and Commander, etc; the dark scenes have enough dark details. But the black level is really very grey even on bulb low at 124" screen size.

I wish I could either reduce the brightness of the bulb further without a filter in front of the projector, or that I could make the screen way bigger. But my room won't allow that. So I am really trying to decide if I should return the HD20 and get the Panasonic AE4000U. But my issue with LCD is in Phoenix there is a ton of dust and I don't want to have to clean out dust blobs all the time. Plus Costco doesn't sell the AE4000, and it's about twice as much. hmmmm.


I'm curious - why not consider a high-contrast or black screen?

I personally cannot afford one nor would I suggest a real one considering the price of the HD20, so I'm not trying to flippantly suggest that you run out and drop $2500 on one, but I am curious why you'd consider spending the $2000 on the Panny instead at this point.

If you do have a home-made screen, have you considered painting it gray?
It seems as though this projector is a fantastic candidate for such an application - everyone is complaining it is too bright and the darks don't have good enough gradation.

Is the projector not capable of producing them with any screen?

I ask because I have a dying Sony VPL-HS51 that provides pretty good contrast with its auto-iris on my $13 Menard's Parkland Plastic bumpy-side 96.7" screen with near-1.0 gain (I had it made custom by a real hack).

The HD20 seems like the right buy for me, but I've seen little discussion (at least in the last 30 pages of this thread) about using a high-contrast screen to make this cheap-gem of a projector really shine...
post #1996 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteInIndy View Post

I'm curious - why not consider a high-contrast or black screen?

I personally cannot afford one nor would I suggest a real one considering the price of the HD20, so I'm not trying to flippantly suggest that you run out and drop $2500 on one, but I am curious why you'd consider spending the $2000 on the Panny instead at this point.

If you do have a home-made screen, have you considered painting it gray?
It seems as though this projector is a fantastic candidate for such an application - everyone is complaining it is too bright and the darks don't have good enough gradation.

Is the projector not capable of producing them with any screen?

I ask because I have a dying Sony VPL-HS51 that provides pretty good contrast with its auto-iris on my $13 Menard's Parkland Plastic bumpy-side 96.7" screen with near-1.0 gain (I had it made custom by a real hack).

The HD20 seems like the right buy for me, but I've seen little discussion (at least in the last 30 pages of this thread) about using a high-contrast screen to make this cheap-gem of a projector really shine...

My DIY screen is stretched blackout cloth. I thought the blacks were perfectly acceptable on the HD70 at 100" bulb on low, dark walls, no ambient light.

My new screen is 124" DIY black out cloth. If there is a reliable way to paint the cloth side evenly and so it doesn't flake off over time with kids poking at it, I might consider that.

I like I said before. I am not sure I would spend $1000 more for just better blacks. I will wait until my walls are painted in this new theater room and see from there.

Oh, the #1 reason for me staying away from a high contrast screen is the narrow viewing cone and hot spotting. Though I think that has always been the 1.8 to 2.8 gain screens.

If I decide to keep the HD20, which I will likely do given the Costco warranty and cheap price, I might see about cloth screen painting on a sample piece to see if I can get the blacks better while keeping the white pretty bright. I will have to see.

Also, since the HD20 doesn't have an auto iris, bulb on low is the best the blacks can be. And with bulb on low the whites are still way bright and the blacks are just way grey as you can see from my closeup of the white screen in the dark just outside of the HD20 projection cone.

What would be cool is if I could by a new bulb that was actually lower lumens and possibly better colored.

Oh well, I am happy with the HD20 for the cost.
post #1997 of 3969
Spend a few dollars on an ND2 filter that will cut the brightness by 50% and give you better blacks.
post #1998 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbfern View Post

Spend a few dollars on an ND2 filter that will cut the brightness by 50% and give you better blacks.

Actually, if the price isn't too bad. I would love to test that out. My main concern is ghosting and other optical distortions or reflections from the added glass. If I can get a large enough piece to test with at a decent price, I will try it out. I should try changing the screen as well, to test both.

Of course I won't test anything until the theater is done. Especially the wall and ceiling color.
post #1999 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon2000 View Post

My DIY screen is stretched blackout cloth. I thought the blacks were perfectly acceptable on the HD70 at 100" bulb on low, dark walls, no ambient light.

My new screen is 124" DIY black out cloth. If there is a reliable way to paint the cloth side evenly and so it doesn't flake off over time with kids poking at it, I might consider that.

I like I said before. I am not sure I would spend $1000 more for just better blacks. I will wait until my walls are painted in this new theater room and see from there.

There are some interesting ideas at this AVSforum url that I'm not allowed to enter because I have less than 3 posts so far...
avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=662348

The added light absorption of a grayer screen would make the blacks blacker and possibly help to reduce in-room reflection that would offset the blacks/dark grays further.

It wouldn't increase the contrast capabilities of the projector, but it should allow one to get to experience the contrast more in cases where it is getting degraded by room light or apparently higher black-levels than can be achieved in the room off-screen.
post #2000 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteInIndy View Post

There are some interesting ideas at this AVSforum url that I'm not allowed to enter because I have less than 3 posts so far...
avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=662348

The added light absorption of a grayer screen would make the blacks blacker and possibly help to reduce in-room reflection that would offset the blacks/dark grays further.

It wouldn't increase the contrast capabilities of the projector, but it should allow one to get to experience the contrast more in cases where it is getting degraded by room light or apparently higher black-levels than can be achieved in the room off-screen.

I use a white 150" EliteScreens 1.1 gain screen and I think the blacks come out great on it if you set it right.


post #2001 of 3969
whoa... 150" is huge! Very cool DrNegative.
post #2002 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassacrexX View Post

whoa... 150" is huge! Very cool DrNegative.

Thank you MassacrexX. I am still in awe of the quality of the HD20 vs. its price. It truly has brought the movie theater experience home for me and I figured, hell...why not utilize the uniqueness of a projector and go as big as I want.

I have friends now who would have never even thought about getting front-projection and are seriously considering it now after seeing mine.

I freaking love this hobby.
post #2003 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNegative View Post

Thank you MassacrexX. I am still in awe of the quality of the HD20 vs. its price. It truly has brought the movie theater experience home for me and I figured, hell...why not utilize the uniqueness of a projector and go as big as I want.

I have friends now who would have never even thought about getting front-projection and are seriously considering it now after seeing mine.

I freaking love this hobby.

Unfortunately pics never show the true black level. I can't imagine the blacks would be much darker at 150" vs my 124" screen. With my 1.0 white screen with bulb on low, the blacks look great in photos, but I find the actual black level not as good as the lower brightness HD70.

But yeah, the HD20 is great for the price. And I love that I was able to get mine from Costco.

Where did you get your material to do 150" screen? I paid $35 shipped for my material for 124" screen. To get a wide enough piece to go larger jumped up to $130 or so, shipped.
post #2004 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon2000 View Post

Unfortunately pics never show the true black level. I can't imagine the blacks would be much darker at 150" vs my 124" screen. With my 1.0 white screen with bulb on low, the blacks look great in photos, but I find the actual black level not as good as the lower brightness HD70.

Yeah Ill never get the inky blacks that you get from the higher-end projectors but having a fully light-controlled room and a 19' throw helped tremendously from what I'm told, gives me about 12-13 fL to the screen. I believe that is the same fL the HD70 would throw on a 100" screen correct? I'm still learning the science of luminosity and how it affects black-levels.

I am guessing you are getting around 17-18fL ?

I was really impressed when playing Splinter Cell: Conviction which is a very black-intensive game and the HD20 performs well with it.
post #2005 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNegative View Post

Thank you MassacrexX. I am still in awe of the quality of the HD20 vs. its price. It truly has brought the movie theater experience home for me and I figured, hell...why not utilize the uniqueness of a projector and go as big as I want.

I have friends now who would have never even thought about getting front-projection and are seriously considering it now after seeing mine.

I freaking love this hobby.

I envy you! I hopefully get one of my own this week though.
post #2006 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNegative View Post

Yeah Ill never get the inky blacks that you get from the higher-end projectors but having a fully light-controlled room and a 19' throw helped tremendously from what I'm told, gives me about 12-13 fL to the screen. I believe that is the same fL the HD70 would throw on a 100" screen correct? I'm still learning the science of luminosity and how it affects black-levels.

I am guessing you are getting around 17-18fL ?

I was really impressed when playing Splinter Cell: Conviction which is a very black-intensive game and the HD20 performs well with it.

Yeah, 12-13 FL sounds about right for when I had 100" 1.0 white screen with the HD70 on bulb low. Which I thought was just about right. My HD20 on low at only about 15-16 ft away at 124" is too bright. But I still need to paint the walls and ceiling dark, and actually construct my screen frame. Which I will likely make 125" just because saying 124" sounds odd. lol.
post #2007 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassacrexX View Post

whoa... 150" is huge! Very cool DrNegative.

yeah, no kidding.

almost seeing you standing there really puts it into perspective.

holy cow.

the image looks amazing.
post #2008 of 3969
anyone could help me plz??
I connect ps3 >> dvdo iscan duo>> hd20
error message shown your display doesn't support hdcp
for other sources work fine
thanks in advance and sorry for my poor eng
post #2009 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaisly View Post

anyone could help me plz??
I connect ps3 >> dvdo iscan duo>> hd20
error message shown your display doesn't support hdcp
for other sources work fine
thanks in advance and sorry for my poor eng

http://www.anchorbaytech.com/support/faq/iscan_duo.php

At the bottom of this page, it shows that the lights mean on the iScan Duo. If the light is blinking blue, the it means it does not detect an HDCP compliant display connected.

I am curious what your application is for having 2 displays running the same video at the same time?

The HD20 does support HDCP, so either the HDMI cable from the iScan Duo is too long or low quality so the signal is weak causing HDCP loss. Or something about the HDCP handshaking between the iScan Duo and either the PS3 or HDCP. If you can't get it to work, I would first contact DVDO about the iScan Duo.
post #2010 of 3969
i'm having dvdo iscan duo for my sumsung plasma and hd20. Of course, it's not running the same time. when i let my plasma playing ps3, it works fine. On the other hand, when plalying projector, hd20 shown the hdcp message after the picture came out for 5 seconds then it turned blue.
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