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*Official* Optoma HD20 Thread - Page 88

post #2611 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVS66 View Post

Does anyone know what color wheel on HD180? The HD20 is 4 but can't find any that info on HD180.

Sorry for asking not HD20. They look like same models with bit better warranty on HD180.

After searching and searching but still can't find the info I wanted.

Just called the Optoma's CSR (Josh) ant he told me he got the same question before. He asked the manager and the answer is as same as HD20's but he didn't know what specs's on HD20.

It's is 4 on HD20 so I assume it's 4 on HD180. May be picking up at CC later today. If I don't like it, I can return it.
post #2612 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVS66 View Post

After searching and searching but still can't find the info I wanted.

Just called the Optoma's CSR (Josh) ant he told me he got the same question before. He asked the manager and the answer is as same as HD20's but he didn't know what specs's on HD20.

It's is 4 on HD20 so I assume it's 4 on HD180. May be picking up at CC later today. If I don't like it, I can return it.

The HD20 has a 6-segment color-wheel (RBGRGB) with a 4X speed. I am pretty sure the HD180 is the same.
post #2613 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by wecaz View Post

Hello,
This question might have been asked several times. But I couldn't find satisfactory answer.

I am looking for a ceiling/wall mount for Optoma HD20. I use to change houses quite often due to work. So I am looking for a mount which is suitable for most scenarios, e.g. wall, ceiling, high drop etc.

I found this universal mount on amazon(amazon.com/gp/product/B00067OOHC/ref=cm_rdp_product) for $86 which seems perfect.

1) Can someone please suggest me a cheaper model?

2) Any feedback? I have doubts about its correct fitting because one guy has commented that he has to remove the rubber pad to use its holes.

Thanks.

I just wanted to share the link for others, to the comments on that mount about the feet and all.

http://www.amazon.com/review/RGKB6WA...wasThisHelpful
post #2614 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNegative View Post

The HD20 has a 6-segment color-wheel (RBGRGB) with a 4X speed. I am pretty sure the HD180 is the same.

It is strange that I spent a long time searching and all official and non-official info on the HD180 has no info on the segments and speed of the color wheel. I just don't understand why Optoma's websites would omit these details for the HD180 when they show it for all the other projectors I have seen from them. I even emailed Optoma AU since their site shows the HD180 and manual. But then have not replied to me.

I am still convinced that it's a re-badged HD20 with different firmware.
post #2615 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon2000 View Post

It is strange that I spent a long time searching and all official and non-official info on the HD180 has no info on the segments and speed of the color wheel. I just don't understand why Optoma's websites would omit these details for the HD180 when they show it for all the other projectors I have seen from them. I even emailed Optoma AU since their site shows the HD180 and manual. But then have not replied to me.

I am still convinced that it's a re-badged HD20 with different firmware.

I think so too. HD180 at CC after tax is about $50 more than HD20 at Amazon. The reason I want to get from CC because it's better warranty and return policy.
post #2616 of 3969
So I'm deciding between buying this, or the Epson 8350... Is the slight increase in price worth it? I'm Very close to buying this within the next day or two, any advice would be greatly appreciated
post #2617 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteshirtkyd
So I'm deciding between buying this, or the Epson 8350... Is the slight increase in price worth it? I'm Very close to buying this within the next day or two, any advice would be greatly appreciated
All I can say is that everyone who's seen it loves it. If you feel that your viewing space is suitable towards a projector, I think you'll be very happy.
post #2618 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteshirtkyd View Post
So I'm deciding between buying this, or the Epson 8350... Is the slight increase in price worth it? I'm Very close to buying this within the next day or two, any advice would be greatly appreciated
Just keep in mind that the HD20 has no lens shift so specific projector placement is required.
post #2619 of 3969
I own hd20 and love it, but my vote is for 8350 unless budget is tight. If you want to know why, ask me tomorrow. I'm going to sleep.
post #2620 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteshirtkyd View Post

So I'm deciding between buying this, or the Epson 8350... Is the slight increase in price worth it? I'm Very close to buying this within the next day or two, any advice would be greatly appreciated

I hate being an HD20 owner siding with a different projector. I was originally going to go with the Panasonic AE4000U and do a CIH setup. Unfortunately I live in Phoenix and have a ton of dust even though I use air filtration in the home. I was reading that many LCD projector owners get dust blobs inside and have to clean the filter and the inside frequently. As in monthly to bi monthly in areas with high dust. I really didn't want to mess with that right now.

So because of the dust where I live, I decided to stick with DLP projectors. And out of DLP projectors I still feel Optoma has the best value.

If I went LCD and CIH, then the Panasonic AE4000U. Though I decided for this house that my 16:9 image would be too small with a CIH 2.4 screen. I need more room width. So with CIH out of the picture. I would go with the Epson for LCD.

Out of these 3 projectors, I wanted to go LCD for the lens shift ability. And I haven't seen any good value DLP with lens shift. I have done 2 installs of DLP projectors with fixed screens. And I can tell you that placement is a game of precision and fine tuning. So the Epson is one of the best LCD value projectors. So if you don't have a lot of dust, I would recommend the Epson.

Again, I love my HD20 and you will certainly be happy with the HD20 or HD180. But installation can be a challenge without lens shift. I haven't heard many people complain about this, but 3xLCD can also have dead/stuck pixel issues much more than DLP. And 3 chip systems can have convergence issues, causing bad color fringing. But I still would have tried LCD for the lens shift if I didn't have so much dust.
post #2621 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by xzener View Post
An update with my issue...

The HD20 was set to "Native". Although switching to 16X9 with the Xbox360 set to 1080p@60, there was no change. Still has the image shift to the left a couple inches.

Tonight I plan on wiring the 360 HDMI directly to the HD20 (bypassing the AVR) to see what that does. Unfortunatly that adds another cable I would have to buy and run to the projector.

Luckily, the PS3 doesn't have this issue at 1080p@60/ 1080p@24. Games and blurays play flawlessly and look amazing.
I actually have the exact same issue, only with an Acer Revo HTPC running XBMC. Any content that switches the resolution to 1080p60 creates a slight image shift to the left (roughly 2" of grey on the right). All other resolutions are fine, including PS3 1080p60.
Haven't turned on my 360 for a few months, but will have to try.
post #2622 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon2000 View Post

I hate being an HD20 owner siding with a different projector. I was originally going to go with the Panasonic AE4000U and do a CIH setup. Unfortunately I like in Phoenix and have a ton of dust even though I use air filtration in the home. I was reading that many LCD projector owners get dust blobs inside and have to clean the filter and the inside frequently. As in monthly to bi monthly in areas with high dust. I really didn't want to mess with that right now.

So because of the dust where I live, I decided to stick with DLP projectors. And out of DLP projectors I still feel Optoma has the best value.

If I went LCD and CIH, then the Panasonic AE4000U. Though I decided for this house that my 16:9 image would be too small with a CIH 2.4 screen. I need for room width. So with CIH out of the picture. I would go with the Epson for LCD.

Out of these 3 projectors, I wanted to go LCD for the lens shift ability. And I haven't seen any good value DLP with lens shift. I have done 2 installs of DLP projectors with fixed screens. And I can tell you that placement is a game of precision and fine tuning. So the Epson is one of the best LCD value projectors. So if you don't have a lot of dust, I would recommend the Epson.

Again, I love my HD20 and you will certainly be happy with the HD20 or HD180. But installation can be a challenge without lens shift. I haven't heard many people complain about this, but 3xLCD can also have dead/stuck pixel issues much more than DLP. And 3 chip systems can have convergence issues, causing bad color fringing. But I still would have tried LCD for the lens shift if I didn't have so much dust.

I have heard these complaints several times, but I'm not too worried about it. I do have a bit of dust in the basement where I'd put it, but I'm ridiculously OCD about this stuff, so I'd make sure to watch this all the time, probably cover it when it's not being used and all that good stuff.

One question I have is how portable are these things? THe primary place I'll be using it is in my basement, but I have a huge whitewall in my bedroom too. I was wondering if it's easy enough to just place one of these on a table and project onto the wall? Thanks for all the help again.
post #2623 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteshirtkyd View Post

I have heard these complaints several times, but I'm not too worried about it. I do have a bit of dust in the basement where I'd put it, but I'm ridiculously OCD about this stuff, so I'd make sure to watch this all the time, probably cover it when it's not being used and all that good stuff.

One question I have is how portable are these things? THe primary place I'll be using it is in my basement, but I have a huge whitewall in my bedroom too. I was wondering if it's easy enough to just place one of these on a table and project onto the wall? Thanks for all the help again.

As a rule, DLP projectors are generally smaller and lighter than their LCD counterparts and thus, more portable. The HD20 is about half the size of the 8350 and only weighs 6 lbs in contrast to the 8350's 16 lbs.
post #2624 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteshirtkyd View Post

I have heard these complaints several times, but I'm not too worried about it. I do have a bit of dust in the basement where I'd put it, but I'm ridiculously OCD about this stuff, so I'd make sure to watch this all the time, probably cover it when it's not being used and all that good stuff.

One question I have is how portable are these things? THe primary place I'll be using it is in my basement, but I have a huge whitewall in my bedroom too. I was wondering if it's easy enough to just place one of these on a table and project onto the wall? Thanks for all the help again.

In addition to Dr Negative's comments, you don't really need the lens shift and LCD if you are just going to use it with walls and a table top. The lens shift is mostly helpful if you have a fixed bordered screen and a fixed ceiling mount. In that case, I would save the $300-400 and get the smaller HD20. Without the need for the lens shift there isn't enough image difference to recommend the Epson.

For a multiple location table top projector that will use walls and general pull down screens, I would recommend the HD20 or HD180. If you were doing a ceiling mount setup, I think the extra money is worth the lens shift with the Epson.
post #2625 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon2000 View Post

In addition to Dr Negative's comments, you don't really need the lens shift and LCD if you are just going to use it with walls and a table top. The lens shift is mostly helpful if you have a fixed bordered screen and a fixed ceiling mount. In that case, I would save the $300-400 and get the smaller HD20. Without the need for the lens shift there isn't enough image difference to recommend the Epson.

For a multiple location table top projector that will use walls and general pull down screens, I would recommend the HD20 or HD180. If you were doing a ceiling mount setup, I think the extra money is worth the lens shift with the Epson.

Really now? The pictures not much different? Now I'm conflicted all over again. With the projector I don't really plan on putting it on a mount or anything, maybe in the future when I build a specific room for it. I'm probably going to build a DIY screen anyways, so the HD20 is better?
post #2626 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteshirtkyd View Post

Really now? The pictures not much different? Now I'm conflicted all over again. With the projector I don't really plan on putting it on a mount or anything, maybe in the future when I build a specific room for it. I'm probably going to build a DIY screen anyways, so the HD20 is better?

When I say the picture quality is not that different. I don't feel it's a $300-400 difference. But if you don't mind spending the difference and both where running side by side, you would likely pick the Epson if the price was not an influence at all. But if I didn't know the prices and someone said I could have image B or image A for $300-400 more, I would said it's not worth it.

Though if you had 2 separate rooms and had to walk 5 mins between them, the difference would be hard to spot without knowing in advance what to look for. Because the images are very close in quality. Though some would say any improvement is worth more money.

So I can't say the HD20 is better than the Epson without cost as a factor. Because it's not. Darn close though. But I think saving $300-400 going with the HD20 and having the much smaller size is better suited for you if you plan on using it table top with a wall or hanging screen.

When I used my first DLP HD70, I had a coffee table with a lower level below the table top. And just put it there so I didn't have to move it and it was always out of the way. And the HD70 had a big offset so it put it a decent height on the wall. I then went ceiling mount and fixed screen and have gone that way since.
post #2627 of 3969
I could not have said it better. I was too much debating between Hd20 and Epson 8350. Finally I bought HD20. I bought HD20 because

In order of importance:

1. Easy return policy and 3 year warranty from Costco (most important)
2. No percieved degradation in PQ compared to Epson
3. $300 Cheaper
4. Lens shift not a requirement for me.
5. Smaller size (Least important)
post #2628 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdubey View Post

I could not have said it better. I was too much debating between Hd20 and Epson 8350. Finally I bought HD20. I bought HD20 because

In order of importance:

1. Easy return policy and 3 year warranty from Costco (most important)
2. No percieved degradation in PQ compared to Epson
3. $300 Cheaper
4. Lens shift not a requirement for me.
5. Smaller size (Least important)

LOL, that was pretty much my list and order as well.

Are you in the US? You mention a 3 year warranty from Costco. The Costco I bought from (US) showed 2 year warranty. And the basic warranty for electronics from Costco is 1 year on top of manufacturer's warranty. Which the HD20 only comes with a 1 year. Unless they changed that from Feb 2010.

But yeah, the Costco factor was the #1 for me as well.
post #2629 of 3969
Xenon2000, I think if you paid via Amex, you have one more year warranty. That makes 3 years.
post #2630 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon2000 View Post

When I say the picture quality is not that different. I don't feel it's a $300-400 difference. But if you don't mind spending the difference and both where running side by side, you would likely pick the Epson if the price was not an influence at all. But if I didn't know the prices and someone said I could have image B or image A for $300-400 more, I would said it's not worth it.

Though if you had 2 separate rooms and had to walk 5 mins between them, the difference would be hard to spot without knowing in advance what to look for. Because the images are very close in quality. Though some would say any improvement is worth more money.

So I can't say the HD20 is better than the Epson without cost as a factor. Because it's not. Darn close though. But I think saving $300-400 going with the HD20 and having the much smaller size is better suited for you if you plan on using it table top with a wall or hanging screen.

When I used my first DLP HD70, I had a coffee table with a lower level below the table top. And just put it there so I didn't have to move it and it was always out of the way. And the HD70 had a big offset so it put it a decent height on the wall. I then went ceiling mount and fixed screen and have gone that way since.

Once again making things a lot tougher. THing is the 8350 is on sale next week for 1200, plus I think I could possibly price match to get it down to 1100. I feel like if I'm going to 1000, 200 dollars more is worth it, would you agree?

edit-btw whats up with costco in the sticky? We're not allowed to post about it or something?

edit edit- Also What's the deal with lens shift? If I'm putting the projector on a table, will it make that big of a difference? I really don't think I'll be mounting it, just probably on a coffee table or something.

edit edit edit- Damn, the HD180 is 899.99 at costco. Is the HD180 significantly better than the HD20?
post #2631 of 3969
The only difference between HD20 and HD180 that I could find was that HD20 has 4000:1 contrast where as HD180 has 3500:1. HD180 seems to be rebranded HD20 for Costco.

Xenon2000- As AVS66 said, paying through Amex extends warranty by one year.
post #2632 of 3969
Picked up HD180 today at CC. Been playing about 1hr with HD on Dish Network. Don't have blu-ray disc to test with. So far, very happy with the purchased. Well, this is my first PJ. I would be with anything
post #2633 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteshirtkyd View Post


edit edit- Also What's the deal with lens shift? If I'm putting the projector on a table, will it make that big of a difference? I really don't think I'll be mounting it, just probably on a coffee table or something.

edit edit edit- Damn, the HD180 is 899.99 at costco. Is the HD180 significantly better than the HD20?

If you're putting the HD20 on a table, the bottom of the screen must be higher than the projector lens. How much higher will depend on the screen size and distance from the screen.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Opto...ulator-pro.htm

Lens shift allows you to place the projector "almost" anywhere in front of the screen and adjust the projector lens left, right, up, down as needed to center the picture on the screen.
The HD20 and most DLP projectors under $3000 do not have lens shift.
post #2634 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

If you're putting the HD20 on a table, the bottom of the screen must be higher than the projector lens. How much higher will depend on the screen size and distance from the screen.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Opto...ulator-pro.htm

Lens shift allows you to place the projector "almost" anywhere in front of the screen and adjust the projector lens left, right, up, down as needed to center the picture on the screen.
The HD20 and most DLP projectors under $3000 do not have lens shift.

Doesn't sound too hard to place it. The thing really keeping me from the HD20, is the contrast ratio, seems so one sided in that regard, is that as much a factor as I would think?
post #2635 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteshirtkyd View Post

Doesn't sound too hard to place it. The thing really keeping me from the HD20, is the contrast ratio, seems so one sided in that regard, is that as much a factor as I would think?

I can't really get into it right now. But ANSI contrast rating is what you would like to know. And brands don't list that. Most LCD projectors are going to list a very high dynamic contrast ratio which is pretty worthless.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/opto...ter_review.htm

Quote from the above review:

"the HD20 measured 456:1 ANSI contrast in our tests. This puts it on a level with several of the more impressive 1080p LCD projectors released last year, but below the more advanced 1080p DLP projectors. ANSI contrast doesn't tell the whole story, but it is a good indicator of the dynamic range that can appear in any one image."

I still think the HD20 and HD180 are a better value and better fit for a tabletop projector compared to similar performance LCD. Especially if you get it from Costco.
post #2636 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNegative View Post

Sup guys, I noticed there were a few gamers asking about the input lag of this projector so I decided during my free time today to do a test.

For my test, I used my PC and cloned to image to both my LCD monitor (Dell 2407WFP which has a rated response time of 6 ms), and the HD20 using my dual-outputs on my graphics card.

Note: I used a cheap point-and-shoot 2MP camera with a fast shutter setting and ran the images through Photoshop to try and brighten them for easier viewing. The quality is horrible but I was more focused more on getting the timers more legible. The projector image looks much better than that when viewed under normal conditions. This does not show the image lag of the projector, only the image lag vs. the screen it's being tested on, my LCD. Results with other people using different LCD/CRT/Plasma/etc. displays to test their projectors are not cross compatible.


Conclusion: It varied between 10-30ms input lag. Even on my other snapshots where it looked like 30ms, the camera shutter caught the timer on my LCD fading/blurring enough to call it around 20-25 ms sometimes. Generally, most people cannot see or feel a difference of less than 30ms, roughly 2 frames. In other words, the HD20 should not have any noticeable lag when playing games. So there you go, hope it helped someone out there.

What a cool way to measure input lag. Really sweet. But I'm confused. Wouldn't the LCD be faster to update than the HD20? So shouldn't the LCD time actually be ahead of the HD20 displayed time? (??)

Or is my brain frying?
post #2637 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagzjagz View Post
What a cool way to measure input lag. Really sweet. But I'm confused. Wouldn't the LCD be faster to update than the HD20? So shouldn't the LCD time actually be ahead of the HD20 displayed time? (??)

Or is my brain frying?
If you carefully observe the pictures, the LCD is ahead of the HD20 by about 10-30 ms every snapshot.

Since my LCD has a rated response time of only 6 ms, this makes it an excellent control for the experiment. I would say a CRT would be the best candidate for control though for comparison's sake, but this will get you close enough.
post #2638 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNegative View Post

If you carefully observe the pictures, the LCD is ahead of the HD20 by about 10-30 ms every snapshot.

Since my LCD has a rated response time of only 6 ms, this makes it an excellent control for the experiment. I would say a CRT would be the best candidate for control though for comparison's sake, but this will get you close enough.

I know, but let's say the computer sends a signal to update from 24seconds to 25 seconds. Since the projector is slower to process the update by a few milliseconds (10-30 you say), then the LCD would display 25 seconds while the projector would still be on 24 seconds.

This means the projector should be "lagging" behind on the LCD in terms of refresh. But the clock shows the other way around?
post #2639 of 3969
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagzjagz View Post

I know, but let's say the computer sends a signal to update from 24seconds to 25 seconds. Since the projector is slower to process the update by a few milliseconds (10-30 you say), then the LCD would display 25 seconds while the projector would still be on 24 seconds.

This means the projector should be "lagging" behind on the LCD in terms of refresh. But the clock shows the other way around?

Ah I misunderstood your question and now I confused myself..lol. My test was to base how close or different the projector was to the control (6 ms LCD). I believe you are asking based on the pictures and timers, which was faster relative to the source (signal)? Yes, I believe you would be correct sir in that assumption.

We take the highest number of the two to draw our comparisons in that case. Either way, the HD20 has a pretty darn fast response time....faster than the LCD. Sorry for the confusion.
post #2640 of 3969
Now I can see ViewSonic Pro8100 for 920+tax. Is it better than HD180? Though I am very happy with HD180.

And I am begging you please don't ask me read over 300 pages on 8100 thread .
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