*Official* Optoma HD20 Thread - Page 120

Ceiling mount for that high of a ceiling? Hopefully someone with experience with a high ceiling mount will chime in. Obviously it heavily depends on how far the top of your screen is down from the ceiling.

Screen size, for that size of room I would go with 135" or larger. Big variable here is front row distance from the screen. Also, your susceptibility to RBE will affect this decision as well. While I can personally get away with a 1x screen size distance and deal with minimal RBE; I still think the general 1.5x to 2x screen size distance is more optimal both for reducing RBE and eye fatigue. Though I like having my front row a little closer than I like, so it's a different experience while gaming. But then generally sit in the 2nd row for movies. Again, a lot of personal preference going on here.

If you haven't already, I highly recommend playing with the HD20 on a table/stand and your wall to see what size you prefer and how far you want the front row from that size image. Then test for RBE and general eye fatigue with that test setup. Maybe even watch a full length movie to see what you think.

White vs Grey. Another big topic. I have tested both in my environment and prefer white with my bulb on low. Testing both is a pain and you have to deal with returns, etc. If you have a dark colored room and watch in darkness or very low light; then I would stick with white. Another factor for me was cost. I was testing my DIY white 125" screen against a cheap 120" grey screen. And preferred the low cost white screen material.

While there is a lot of opinion and choosing yourself by testing in your own environment is best; if you want to skip the testing, then I think a white 135" screen with a 1.5x viewing distance, trying to keep the center of your screen only slightly higher than your eye level while sitting down and not reclined, is a great default answer.

But you could test and find out you prefer a 120" grey screen at a 2.0x viewing distance. lol.

By using the Elite Projector Calculator and inputting the Optoma HD20, 14 foot ceiling and screen size 135 inches (larger if you like) you end up with a mounting pole length of 64 inches. The larger the screen, the shorter the pole length.

http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/

Mississippi Man (link provided below) has addressed this issue many times and the easy and inexpensive way is to use 1.5 inch PVC pipe cut to length and the Peerless ACC570 ceiling plate. I recommend the Peerless PRG-UNV projector mount but there are other mounts on the market.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1377321/official-epson-powerlite-home-cinema-5010-6010-thread/2040#post_22170376

I can get an Optoma HD20 (Factory Recertified) with 90 day warranty for $654 shipped. The refurb condition combined with the measly 90 day warranty scares me a little. But man, what a price. I can get one year coverage from squaretrade for $99 or two years for $150. Tempting... any thoughts?

If it has a new bulb go for it. If it works for 90 days it will probably work for at least a year.

I don't think I'm a fan of square trade really. It's basically insurance, and prices are determined based on likelihood of a problem and still making a profit for them. In my opinion insurance is only worthwhile for cars, houses, medical, life (if you have dependents), etc. where if something happens you would otherwise be in financial trouble.

Sorry if this is a stupid questionj, but when I get it can I check the lamp usage? I can Google this thread/web when I get home for the answer.
I called and the company told me the lamp was new. So if not, I'll return it.

BTW the company is BuyDig - I ordered it so I can put up their name and not worry about this projector going OOS
Use code BGSaveACool25 to get $25 off the price.

Yes you can get the lamp usage from the menu.

Since you normally reset the bulb hours after you replace the bulb, couldn't you do that for a used bulb just as easily? So even if it says 0 or 1 hour on the bulb, they could have just reset it.

Thanks to both of you that answered and helped me, it was a bad connection between the HDMI cable and my receiver. Problem solved and my projector still looks great after 3,000 plus hours

I have a Darblet coming in the mail for this thing.

http://darbeevision.com/

and the AVS thread

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1399154/darbee-vision-darblet

People are getting great results on far higher priced equipment, I'm hoping my HD20 looks more like my Panny 55ST50 plasma after the Darbee treatment.

I will post impressions by next weekend.

After reading the Darblet thread I am seriously considering this as well. Has anyone here used it with the HD20?

http://darbeevision.com/

http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homestead.com/Darblet-Darbee-Vision-Review.html?_=1337122950922

Looks like sharpening filters used in Photoshop, but for video. I personally find my HD20 at 125" to be sharp enough. And I have actually turned the sharpness down due to artifacts when doing resolution testing. Which affects my HTPC experience greatly.

The review here mentions that using the DarbeeVision with BluRay content wasn't much of a difference. For me, I have no complains with the sharpness of my HD20 at 125". The only thing I would like is deeper blacks. But only so much I can do for that without replacing the projector.

This is how I gather that it works. it pulls the image apart like 3d and takes 1 of the images and defocuses it and recombines them. It fools your brain into seeing depth and clarity. For $269 its worth a gamble, although I hardly think its gambling based on the end user reviews. Mine should be here friday.

So I watched the video from their website. And I just don't believe the demo they show. My image already looks like the Darbee processed image based on what they show in video. Which I know is not a good representation of what it seen in person. But it reminds me of the DVD vs BluRay demos you see in stores. Where it's the same TV with the same source. But they use a BluRay with a "fake" DVD source for one side and then the native BluRay on the other. My DVDs never look as bad as what they show.

I would really have to see 2 of the same displays with the same source player and content, but one playing through the Darbee.

My other issue is that even the built in processing on the HD20 when set a certain way, messes up the image on my HTPC for non-video content. As in smooth gradients get squashed, halos around objects, etc. Which is why I like modding the presets in the HD20. I can simply use the remote to change settings based on my content. Though I actually prefer 1 setting for all my content right now as some movies have video so dynamic that some settings work great for one scene, but then have halos, too much sharpness, or other issues in other scenes.

Which is also why I never use brightness AI settings on any of my displays, other than my phone since I use it in the sun and indoors.

I wish I had a link to share what I think is going on here. As I have seen this effect in Photoshop. Contrast perception can be artifically boosted by changing the shade of surrounding pixels where high contrast is detected. So if you have bright moon on a dark blue sky. It would make the moon brighter than it is and the surrounding pixels a darker shaded. So the edge contrast is higher. The issue is that this creates a dark halo around the moon and the brighter moon can loose it's own low contrast details. Of course you can play with the settings and actually get a really awesome picture where you can't really detect the halo and the moon detail is preserved or even enhanced. The issue is, the same setting might look great on this scene, but then look terrible in another.

I guess I am really skeptical since the only issue I have with my HD20 is black level which is affecting shadow details. Highlight details could be a little better as well, but they are within reason for me.

I also wonder if the Darbee introduces any significant input lag to the feed. Which is the last thing I want for my gaming. Again, I try to keep my setup optimized for every use.

For me the most important thing is being able to fully display resolution and smooth gradients. Which are the 2 main components to seeing the source details. Especially the shadow details and highlight details.
Would be interesting to see the Darbee's results on a static and video resolution tests. Oh and of course
http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patterns/
http://www.passmark.com/products/monitortest.htm
Not sure who has the best video and static resolution test screens.


Anyway, just some of my thoughts. Darbee can't improve the black levels, so I know it's not for me.

I think the input lag was tested at 3 micro seconds. As for the other things I know the Darbee does nothing with calibration and most of the people are using it in chain with a tradition processor like a DVDO. Its not for everyone, I am excited by the hype. I'll let people know. And if any of the pictures off my camera phone show anything I will post them.

Hello all, I have a question, pardon I haven't had time to search the whole thread

I have this projector, and it works fine except
In the middle of the image scenes that should be white are showing some yellowing.
In a completely dark room.

What does this indicate is going wrong with the projector?

Thank you very much

I can tell you the HD20 white uniformity isn't as good as some other projectors. But it certainly isn't bad either. Many people, including myself, have noticed it when displaying an all white or all black image for review.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1165581/official-optoma-hd20-thread/1980#post_18491309

That is my post with images of the color shift. The small "on paper" image you see in that post is exaggerated as it's very close to the projector lens. I did this so it was very very easy to see how much of a color shift there is. Luckily the effect is pretty minimal on my big screen. Which is 124" (or 125", always forget exactly).

Though the center for me tends to be mostly white. I haven't seen any yellows in a white image on my white screen.

How are you testing? Is there a certain scene in a movie you are testing? Or do you have a computer hooked up?

Has anyone tried the VIP Displayer or VIP Theater device on this projector to convert it to a 3D player? It seems like it should work, and for $250-350 its is a relatively inexpensive way to add 3D to this 2D projector. The only shame is DLP link glasses will not work with this as its refresh rate is under 120hz. Once I have my basement theater finished I will start saving for the converter, but I was hoping for some first hand info to see if the effect is worth it or if too much flicker is noticeable.

thank you for your reply

I first noticed it watching the Artist

Now I see it in everything where there should be white in the center

This includes not even using a source, just the all-white test screen function built into the projector.

I will take an photo or two tonight to post

If it's a cheap& easy DIY fix I'd rather do it then be without it 3-4 weeks under warranty service

ideas, help ? please? {click for bigger}
this is on the projector's white screen test

wow, that does not look good. That is certainly not an optics issue or a DMD issue. Most certainly a bulb issue. Is that the bulb it came with? Did you buy the projector new or refurb? I wonder if some finger oils got on the bulb during install and it has begun to cook those oils. I am pretty sure a bulb replacement will solve this issue. But I would at least remove the bulb housing to see if you can see anything. Though it doesn't take much to see it on the screen, but it might not be so easy to see outside of the projector.

You should also check the front lens element as well. Also, has it always looked this way since you owned it? Or was it working fine and then this happened. My guess is that it has looked this way since the bulb was changed by someone.
Edited by xenon2000 - 9/8/12 at 9:50am

I recently got the bulb changed under warranty @ BBY (extended warranty, 2 year). The unit is about 22 months old. The first bulb got about 3200 hours
(2 months ago)
I hadn't used it much since then due to summer commitments (about 200 hours on new bulb), and can't say if it was like that since the change entire time or not.
Just noticed it 3-4 days ago when resumed heavy use (50 hours this week)


if that is the issue, is there a cleaning technique/chemical that is appropriate? I mean if possible I'd like to avoid buying a new bulb. I doubt cleaning it could make it worse?



thanks for all your assistance
Edited by OggideM - 9/8/12 at 2:29pm

Hopefully someone else will chime in with info on that. I have only replaced bulb units, brand new ones. So I don't know what you can try for cleaning the bulb housing. Hopefully it's just something on the bulb housing and not the bulb itself.

Hi, I am seriously considering this projector. This will be my first projector, which will go in my 25x13 ft great room (vaulted ceilings so it may be difficult to mount to the ceiling). What should I know before I purchase this projector, or any projector in general? I've been afraid to make the leap because I've been told picture quality is not that good. The projector will only be used as a home theatre- we have a TV for general viewing. I have blackout shades for the room but the walls are a light color. Advice please!...Thanks!

I have the HD20 with 125" screen and with the lights off, I have never had anyone say anything buy WOW when they watch movies or play games on it. Yes, it is true that you won't get shadow details like a well calibrated LCD or Plasma display. And it certainly won't impress with the lights on. But I wonder why they would tell you the picture quality is not good. I wonder what the comparison is.

I have several LCD TVs and of course I have seen plenty of Plasma TVs. For less than $900, I don't see how you can go wrong with the HD20 at 1080p when using a huge screen. Go wtih 100" or larger and I sure you will be happy.

With Sharp now selling an 80" LCD and 90" , day light viewing theaters are in for a real treat! The 90" is way more than the 80", but prices always drop. Just 5 years ago Sharp had a 108" LCD that was $100,000. And now the 90" is a 1/10th of that cost on release. Still spendy, but it will drop. Though I am really looking forward to huge 4K displays and 4K projectors coming down in price.

Regardless, if you want to get into a 1080p projector for huge dark room viewing of movies and games, the HD20 is a great value. And if you can spend more and want 3D, some good reviews on the HD33 for low cost 3D at 1080p.

Thanks! So, watching TV during the day won't work with this projector? Even if the blinds are closed (though not blackout shades)? Thanks!

Hey sorry about the lack of Darbee on a HD20 update. I don't have a camera other than my cell phone and it doesn't do it justice.

I've been texting pictures back and forth with 2 other HD20 owners who remain unconvinced. So it pretty much means my phone sucks and doesn't get the point across.

I do Xbox360 whatever the current Call of Duty game is, most of the time on my projector. I run the Darbee in Game Mode at 80%. I turned it off last night after not having touched it for over a week.

I don't ever want it off again.

I feel the difference is almost like the jump from the old xbox to the 360.

The clarity and depth is amazing which it was designed to affect, and I know it does nothing to your calibration but it looks like I get a darker, livelier picture much like my 3d Panasonic Plasma... but not quite.

If I had 3 hands it would be 3 thumbs up. It renewed that initial voracious need to constantly use the projector. I'm back to being blown away by the HD20

No, you read that wrong. Day light viewing quality is NOT specific to the HD20. But to Projectors in general. I don't care if it's a 5,000 lumen projector, it's still going to look poor with light (compared to LCD and Plasma) and better with no light.

Even with some day light, many projectors are usable. And as you decrease the screen size, the brighter the image. But all projectors look their best in total darkness like commercial theaters. If you want that kind of experience, you will need to at least be able to get the room as dark as possible during the day. For any projector. If you can read a book easily with the blinds closed, then it's probably too light for a theater experience. They sell black out blinds and blackout curtains. Either would be a great investment if you want to get into a huge 100+ inch screen cinema theater experience with any projector.

While enough brightness and expensive screens can greatly improve on daytime TV watching similar to how people use LCD and Plasma TV, Front projection setups always look even better in total dark. And with huge LCDs coming down in price, better to stick with those technologies for viewing with light. Projectors will look best in complete darkness. Even going as far as dark colored paint can make a visible difference.

I personally recommend that projectors NOT be your first display. If you don't already own a 40"+ LCD or Plasma TV. Then I would spend the money there first. I use my LCDs for general TV watching. But when I really want to get into a video game, TV program or movie; then I use my projector with the lights off and the blackout blinds closed for total darkness during the day. Or you can always want until night time. Which is early in the winter here, but late in the summer.

Fair enough. I do have a 46" LED that will go into the living room; the project is for the home theatre/great room, where I'll primarily be watching movies/TV at night. Are there any other downsides I should be aware of, with the HD20 or in general vis-a-vis projectors? Thanks!

Light is the main one with projectors. If it's night, then light control is easy. During the day you may or may not be happy with the image with the blinds closed and no blackout curtains.

I personally made my own 16:9 DIY white screen that is about 125" diagonal. You will need to decide on what you want to do for a screen. Figuring out the screen size is a huge first step. From there, you can use the Projector Central calculator to see where the projector will need to be mounted.

In general, with low cost projectors, DLP will not have lens shift. And LCD projectors may have some. But not always.

This means that the HD20 and other low cost 1080p DLP projectors will have a very limited location from screen mounting to PJ mounting. The mounting and distances are shown with the Projector Central calculator.

If you are looking for general Pros and Cons of Projectors vs LCD/Plasma displays; I am sure google will yield many results. The biggest pro for projectors is the size to cost ratio. For less than $1,000 total; I have a 125" 1080p image! And if I had a bigger room and ceiling, I could do 200" or more. You just can't do that with non-projector displays right now... at any price. Though with a 90" LCD now available by Sharp, the size is finally getting into projection size territory. Though at more than 10 times the cost of the HD20.

Another example: Let's say your budget is $1,000 for the image portion of your setup. And that you will have or get a separate sound system regardless of display type. So we ignore that LCD and Plasma have sound included.

Projector:
HD20: $899 or less
Image size: variable, but you can easily do 90" to 200" depending on room size for the screen.

LCD:
Price and size is all over the place at any given time. 3D may or may not be included. But let's say you are lucky and get a 60" LCD for $899. Though I don't know, Costco has an off brand 60" LCD for $999. A Samsung 60" Plasma goes for about $1,100. But you get the idea.
And that is only for 60"

Nothing wrong with 60", certainly bigger than any of my non-projector displays. And if you can get a great price on a 60" TV you like, this might be large enough for your space and suit you better.

But as you can see, the size to cost ratio is the big reason projection is still the de-facto standard for the Home Theater "Cinema" experience. Though the main downside is light control and some people don't like the trade off. You can get picky and list things like picture quality, etc. But no one has every played games or watched a movie on my 125" 1080p HD20 theater and later said they wished we were using the LCD or Plasma instead. Which to me means that the picture quality is still high enough. Yes, I would still prefer better shadow details from the HD20. But at this price level, there is not much better out there at this point.

If you know you really want a huge picture for less than $1000, I recommend a projector.

I don't know who these people are complaining about the picture quality of the HD20, but they better check their source. I have mine connected to a TiVo HD and also a WD Live TV media box. I went in assuming mediocre picture quality would be the cost of having a 120" image in my basement theater. WRONG! The PQ is fantastic. Everyone that has seen it so far has been blown away. Playing NHL 13 on the big screen takes gaming to a whole new level. I have yet to hear anyone complain that the PQ is anything but amazing, and shockingly nobody has said that the picture isn't big enough (or too big). At the end of the day the main users are me and my kids, and we all agree that this projector is worth its weight in gold. I am currently projecting onto a plain white wall as well, so my results can only get better with a screen or using special paint.