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New Sony ES Player BDP-S1000ES - Page 2

post #31 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wallace View Post

Here's my thing, and I'm really bummed about it, and really pissed off about it. Everybody wants the best thing in the world.....cheap. So manufacturers listen and make cheap stuff but with name brand chipsets or whatever and make people think it's better than previous built like a tank stuff. An earlier post alluded to one of the new Sony's. The new Elite BDP-23 is way smaller than the 05 to say nothing of the 09 and it has a wimpy power cord connector, which is a bummer to those of us who like the boost in performance that a good IEC power cord can provide. Point being, things are gravitating towards being more cheaply built, so manufacturers point to chips and name brand whatevers and if it tests well, well then it must be better......but no. Does anyone really think that a $499 player that can do DVD-Audio, SACD, DVD-Video, Blu-Ray, & CD and uses a name brand processing chip like the Anchor Bay is really optimized for all of those formats? No, clearly not. The Elite was SUBJECTIVELY better, and it was not subtle. This from a customer who WANTED the Oppo to be better since it was soooooo much faster, and Elite's are slower than erosion. Point being, there is no substitute for good, but bad for marketing copy build qualities like a good overbuilt quiet power supply, good circuit layout, superior build quality and internal layout, proper implementation of all tasks, regardless of whether it's a name brand chip that sells when mentioned in reviews. These things show up on screen and to our ears, even if there is not a measurable quality to them. Not everything is about 'Secrets of HT&HF' benchmark scores (not that those don't have SOME value). And it's this same Oppo/Vizio culture that has killed Pioneer Elite plasmas. There was a study done and amongst those who made over $100,000 a year, the average they spent on a new TV was $1,500. No wonder Elite can't make money off plasma when even the well-heeled refuse to pony up for genuine quality. And now once Elite leaves, there really is not a fantastic second option, and so now there are no high performance TV's within reasonable reach of the average consumer (some colleagues who attended Runco training said that there new "Opal" line of plasmas were the best TV image they had ever seen, but priced more than double the Elite's which are being firesold and still aren't selling as fast as such a good product should).

So you asked for it, you got it - cheap stuff that measures well and performs ok, but is completely uninspiring in actual use. Ain't those internets amazing!?!

post #32 of 1183
Would anyone know if the new Sony with HD Reality Enhancer and Super Bit Mapping would be better then the OPPO that use VRS would the new BDP-1000ES be in the same line as the 5000ES for PQ/SQ.
post #33 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdblu View Post

Would anyone know if the new Sony with HD Reality Enhancer and Super Bit Mapping would be better then the OPPO that use VRS would the new BDP-1000ES be in the same line as the 5000ES for PQ/SQ.

Hi.
I would have thought this model will deliver exactly the same PQ as the 5000.
post #34 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfats View Post

Hi.
I would have thought this model will deliver exactly the same PQ as the 5000.

I was thinking that too, we will have to wait to see
post #35 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wallace View Post

Here's a news flash about the revered Oppo....at my workplace, we did a shootout with a customer who had just bought the new Oppo BD player with his 2 year old Elite BDP-95. The customer with the Oppo, and everyone at my workplace all agreed....THE ELITE AT TWO YEARS OLD, BLEW THE OPPO OUT OF THE WATER. Sorry folks, but if it sounds too good to be true.....if you want to watch test patterns and feel justified with good 'Secrets of Hi-Fi' benchmark scores, then the Oppo is your player. If you watch video, then slow boot and load times and all, the Elites are still king.

I happen to have both of those players, and your definitive statement isn't quite so definitive as you seem to think. Neither player blows the other out of the water on SD upscaling....they're pretty close, IMO. (I'm a huge fan of Pioneer upscaling and the Oppo is at least as good.) BD at 1080p/24 is what it is.....they look pretty much the same. In every other regard, though, the Oppo blows the 95FD out of the water.
post #36 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I happen to have both of those players, and your definitive statement isn't quite so definitive as you seem to think. Neither player blows the other out of the water on SD upscaling....they're pretty close, IMO. (I'm a huge fan of Pioneer upscaling and the Oppo is at least as good.) BD at 1080p/24 is what it is.....they look pretty much the same. In every other regard, though, the Oppo blows the 95FD out of the water.

Putting the blu-ray players in the water in the first place is probably not a good idea. Second, Allowing one of the players with some sort of explosive device to blow the other player out of the water will not help the performance of either.
post #37 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post


Why? Because all you cheapskates thinking that you can get a Ferrari for the price of a Yugo are driving good companies out of business and driving manufacturers to build things more cheaply and creating the same kind of disparity between the super high end and the low end as exists in the economy with 1% of the people owning 50% of the country. The middle class in both electronics and economy is going away. That's why I'm so serious!
post #38 of 1183
I'm aligned with progprog on this one.

I feel the BD player is the new "amplifier" of the video world. Thousands will puport one brand or model over another using completely unquantifiable characteristics and then chalk it up as "some aspects of audio/video cannot be measured".

yeah, ok.

bring on the A/B ABX double blinds then and put your money where your foot is.

Correctly operating blu-ray disc players, in my experience, are extremely close in image quality, regardless of the brand, model, and price point.

James
post #39 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I'm aligned with progprog on this one.

I feel the BD player is the new "amplifier" of the video world. Thousands will puport one brand or model over another using completely unquantifiable characteristics and then chalk it up as "some aspects of audio/video cannot be measured".

yeah, ok.

bring on the A/B ABX double blinds then and put your money where your foot is.

Correctly operating blu-ray disc players, in my experience, are extremely close in image quality, regardless of the brand, model, and price point.

James

James, you're simply wrong frankly. We don't see and hear digital. EVERYTHING has to get converted to analog, be it audio or video. The analog output stage of a piece of audio and video gear is fundamental to how it sounds or looks. Why you freaking rocket scientists refuse to look or listen and instead just point to friggin' white papers drives me crazy. So...if it all doesn't matter, go to Radio Shack and get a DVD player for $39 and get a blu-ray player for $199. Sorry, but crimany you'd think half the people on this forum site are Albert Einstein. IT'S AUDIO-VIDEO GEAR. Sonic and visual differences are the reason we buy one piece of gear over the other. And of course amplifiers sound different, what a dumb analogy. The same parts lined up differently will produce a different sound, if not different measurements. This is why ALL MANUFACTURERS LOOK AT AND LISTEN TO THEIR GEAR BEFORE SELLING IT. If they were just going by measureables, there would be NO POINT IN SUBJECTIVE ANALYSIS. It is telling that NO ONE MARKETS THEIR PRODUCTS BEFORE SUCH EVALUATION.
post #40 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wallace View Post

James, you're simply wrong frankly. We don't see and hear digital. EVERYTHING has to get converted to analog, be it audio or video. The analog output stage of a piece of audio and video gear is fundamental to how it sounds or looks. Why you freaking rocket scientists refuse to look or listen and instead just point to friggin' white papers drives me crazy. So...if it all doesn't matter, go to Radio Shack and get a DVD player for $39 and get a blu-ray player for $199. Sorry, but crimany you'd think half the people on this forum site are Albert Einstein. IT'S AUDIO-VIDEO GEAR. Sonic and visual differences are the reason we buy one piece of gear over the other. And of course amplifiers sound different, what a dumb analogy. The same parts lined up differently will produce a different sound, if not different measurements. This is why ALL MANUFACTURERS LOOK AT AND LISTEN TO THEIR GEAR BEFORE SELLING IT. If they were just going by measureables, there would be NO POINT IN SUBJECTIVE ANALYSIS. It is telling that NO ONE MARKETS THEIR PRODUCTS BEFORE SUCH EVALUATION.

Please, Let people think for them selfs if they hear a difference with DIGITAL let them have there fun but please do not go around telling people you are not hearing a difference GET A LIFE

Now get back on topic
post #41 of 1183
yeah, ok.

James
post #42 of 1183
whats the point of a stereo headphone jack on something that is more than likely going to attached to a surround sound system?
post #43 of 1183
would this Sony player with HD Reality Enhancer and Super Bit Mapping out perform the OPPO with VRS.
post #44 of 1183
I would like to know what the differences are between the BDP-s5000ES and BDP-s1000ES. Why should some one get the 5000ES over the 1000ES?
post #45 of 1183
Page available at SONY Style. It is supposed to load fast which has not been the case for SONY players (except the PS3 of course).
post #46 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdblu View Post

would this Sony player with HD Reality Enhancer and Super Bit Mapping out perform the OPPO with VRS.

Good question...

Sony BDP-S1000ES pre-order ($699,99) Sony Style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonyStyle View Post

ES Series Blu-ray Disc™ Player

Take your movie experience to a whole new level with this ES Series Blu-ray Disc™ player, which features Full HD resolution, BD-Live™ and built-in Wi-Fi capability.

Model number: BDP-S1000ES

Super Bit Mapping and HD Reality Enhancer
Super Bit Mapping smoothes out background shadow and color gradients, and HD Reality Enhancer sharpens moving edges to create the finest video output available from Sony.



http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665945151

Sony BDP-S1000ES operating instructions (pdf)







http://www.sonystyle.com/wcsstore/So...set-165760.pdf

What do you think of picture performance (SD and HD) of Sony BRAVIA tv´s with Bravia Engine 2 Pro and Bravia Engine 3? (that uses DRC-MFv3 lsi, that supposedly, is also inside Sony BDP-S1000ES and BDP-S5000ES...)

Roberto
post #47 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick22587 View Post

I would like to know what the differences are between the BDP-s5000ES and BDP-s1000ES. Why should some one get the 5000ES over the 1000ES?

Here is what the 1000ES has the BDP-S5000ES does not have:
  • XMB® inspired media bar
  • Scene Search
  • Energy Star
  • 4GB external memory
  • Built-in wireless functionality (802.11N/G/B/A)
  • 7.1channel virtual headphone output
  • Digital Photo Playback (via USB)
  • Photo Streaming - Digital Living Network Alliance (DLNA)

Now here is what the BDP-S5000ES has the 1000ES does not have:
  • Isolated Audio Circuit Board and High Quality Parts
  • RS-232C & IR Input for Flexible Custom Installation
  • Rigid Beam Chassis & Dual Shield Construction
  • R-Core Transformer
  • High Quality 14-bit HD Video Processor
  • HD Reality Enhancer (8 to 14 bit)
  • Low-Vibration Enclosure
  • The analog audio circuit is mounted on a 7.1-channel isolated board
  • HD 24Hz to 60Hz conversion
  • Noise Reduction : FNR, BNR,MNR
  • Picture Parameter Adjustments : Contrast, Brightness, Color, Sharpness, HUE, Gamma, Playback Memory
  • Screen Saver
  • Analog-to-Digital Converter : 192 MHz/24 bit

Both have HD Reality Enhancer but the 5000ES is superior since it goes from 8 to 14 bit while the 1000ES goes from 8 to 12 bit.

The 5000ES weighs 22 lbs while the 1000ES weighs 6.6 lbs!

In sum the 5000ES is better built, has a superior video processor and analog section. The 1000ES has a new menu, wifi support, more memory, headphone output and DLNA.

Now it is up to you to decide
post #48 of 1183
Hoping to get one for review shortly...
post #49 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechON View Post

CREAS consists mainly of two circuit blocks. The "HD Reality Enhancer" in the first block stresses the outline (sharpness) and enhances color gradation (smoothing) of 8-bit video signals that are input. It analyzes color information of hundreds of surrounding pixels and determines the intensity of sharpness and smoothing processing by each pixel.

"When the edges of the surrounding pixels are strong, for example, it mildly processes sharpness," a Sony spokesperson said. Internal computing is performed on 14-bit or higher quality video, and 14-bit video signals (YUV4:4:4) are output to the circuit in the second block

The "Super Bit Mapping for Video" circuit in the second block works to convert the 14-bit video signals to 12- to 8-bit signals in accordance with the feature of the panel, on which the video is output. During the process, the circuit slightly increases amplitude of color signals so neutral colors can be rendered to reproduce 14-bit equivalent video even if it is output on a display that can only render 8- or 10-bit video.

The technique is similar to dithering as a signal processing, but Super Bit Mapping "increases amplitude at high space frequencies in an effort not to cause the processing to appear as noises, in consideration of characteristics of human vision," the spokesperson said.


One of the X-series' substrates. On the upper left is the "DRC-MFv3" IP conversion LSI chip, in the center is the "CREAS" image processor SoC and at the bottom are HDMI transmitter LSI chips (two units) manufactured by Silicon Image Inc.

The BDP-S5000ES features the "CREAS" image processor chip as the new Blu-ray Disc recorders do.

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english...05/157531/?P=1

Roberto
post #50 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonscott View Post

Putting the blu-ray players in the water in the first place is probably not a good idea. Second, Allowing one of the players with some sort of explosive device to blow the other player out of the water will not help the performance of either.

Hehehe.....Good information; especially, if somebody is looking to "pull the trigger" on either one of them players too....then again, me thinks if somebody's going to blow holes into either of the players it'll definitely invalidate the warranty. I don't get why people want to destroy their equipment with water or by shooting holes in them.
post #51 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by sergiohm View Post

Here is what the 1000ES has the BDP-S5000ES does not have:
  • XMB® inspired media bar
  • Scene Search
  • Energy Star
  • 4GB external memory
  • Built-in wireless functionality (802.11N/G/B/A)
  • 7.1channel virtual headphone output
  • Digital Photo Playback (via USB)
  • Photo Streaming - Digital Living Network Alliance (DLNA)

Now here is what the BDP-S5000ES has the 1000ES does not have:
  • Isolated Audio Circuit Board and High Quality Parts
  • RS-232C & IR Input for Flexible Custom Installation
  • Rigid Beam Chassis & Dual Shield Construction
  • R-Core Transformer
  • High Quality 14-bit HD Video Processor
  • HD Reality Enhancer (8 to 14 bit)
  • Low-Vibration Enclosure
  • The analog audio circuit is mounted on a 7.1-channel isolated board
  • HD 24Hz to 60Hz conversion
  • Noise Reduction : FNR, BNR,MNR
  • Picture Parameter Adjustments : Contrast, Brightness, Color, Sharpness, HUE, Gamma, Playback Memory
  • Screen Saver
  • Analog-to-Digital Converter : 192 MHz/24 bit

Both have HD Reality Enhancer but the 5000ES is superior since it goes from 8 to 14 bit while the 1000ES goes from 8 to 12 bit.

The 5000ES weighs 22 lbs while the 1000ES weighs 6.6 lbs!

In sum the 5000ES is better built, has a superior video processor and analog section. The 1000ES has a new menu, wifi support, more memory, headphone output and DLNA.

Now it is up to you to decide

Seems to me the BDP-S1000ES has the following:
Screen Saver
Same Noise Reduction elements as 5000ES
Same Picture Parameter Adjustments as 5000ES except for Sharpness
1080/24p to 1080/60p Cinema Conversion

Why would the 5000ES have an Analog to Digital Converter 192MHz/24 Bit?
post #52 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by sergiohm View Post

Here is what the 1000ES has the BDP-S5000ES does not have:
  • XMB® inspired media bar
  • Scene Search
  • Energy Star
  • 4GB external memory
  • Built-in wireless functionality (802.11N/G/B/A)
  • 7.1channel virtual headphone output
  • Digital Photo Playback (via USB)
  • Photo Streaming - Digital Living Network Alliance (DLNA)

Now here is what the BDP-S5000ES has the 1000ES does not have:
  • Isolated Audio Circuit Board and High Quality Parts
  • RS-232C & IR Input for Flexible Custom Installation
  • Rigid Beam Chassis & Dual Shield Construction
  • R-Core Transformer
  • High Quality 14-bit HD Video Processor
  • HD Reality Enhancer (8 to 14 bit)
  • Low-Vibration Enclosure
  • The analog audio circuit is mounted on a 7.1-channel isolated board
  • HD 24Hz to 60Hz conversion
  • Noise Reduction : FNR, BNR,MNR
  • Picture Parameter Adjustments : Contrast, Brightness, Color, Sharpness, HUE, Gamma, Playback Memory
  • Screen Saver
  • Analog-to-Digital Converter : 192 MHz/24 bit

Both have HD Reality Enhancer but the 5000ES is superior since it goes from 8 to 14 bit while the 1000ES goes from 8 to 12 bit.

The 5000ES weighs 22 lbs while the 1000ES weighs 6.6 lbs!

In sum the 5000ES is better built, has a superior video processor and analog section. The 1000ES has a new menu, wifi support, more memory, headphone output and DLNA.

Now it is up to you to decide

I'm trying to make a choice but it hasn't been easy. I wish I know which one was better for me.
post #53 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick22587 View Post

I'm trying to make a choice but it hasn't been easy. I wish I know which one was better for me.

Am thinking the Oppo is a better player then both of the Sony players
post #54 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdblu View Post

Am thinking the Oppo is a better player then both of the Sony players

I guess we will find out which one is better when a review posts for the s1000ES
post #55 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick22587 View Post

I guess we will find out which one is better when a review posts for the s1000ES

I will have to wait
post #56 of 1183
Just to whet the appetites a bit, it's pretty easy to infer where Ultimate AV stands on the 5000...perhaps the 1000 will fare better overall thanks to it's fantastically lower price, but it likely won't win anyone over with this outfit unless there's a surprise in the SD perfromance.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/hddiscp...lu-ray_player/

James
post #57 of 1183
Sony BDP-S5000ES reviews
http://www.testfreaks.com/dvd-player...s/?include=all

Sony BDP-S350 vs Sony BDP-S550 vs Sony BDP-S5000ES


http://hdtvpolska.com/index.php?show...&mode=threaded
Polish > English

Roberto
post #58 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick22587 View Post

I would like to know what the differences are between the BDP-s5000ES and BDP-s1000ES. Why should some one get the 5000ES over the 1000ES?

Having owned the S5000ES for many months, I can say that the only reason to buy this player is that you have an old pre/pro or receiver without the ability to play the new surround codecs (DTS-MA and True Dolby HD) through HDMI. The unit has 7.1 analog outs along with a superior D/A converter that allows one to enjoy the new surround codecs if you have a receiver with true 7.1 analog pass through. I own an Arcam AV9 with 7.1 analog pass through so I am able to keep it and STILL enjoy the new surround codecs without having to update my equipment. You can too.
post #59 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

Having owned the S5000ES for many months, I can say that the only reason to buy this player is that you have an old pre/pro or receiver without the ability to play the new surround codecs (DTS-MA and True Dolby HD) through HDMI. The unit has 7.1 analog outs along with a superior D/A converter that allows one to enjoy the new surround codecs if you have a receiver with true 7.1 analog pass through. I own an Arcam AV9 with 7.1 analog pass through so I am able to keep it and STILL enjoy the new surround codecs without having to update my equipment. You can too.

I do agree with you but I feel like there is more than just that difference between the two players. I feel like the video quality might be better on the 5000ES than the 1000ES but thats only a guess not a fact. I'm can't wait till some one posts their review or impressions of the 1000ES.
post #60 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wallace View Post

Why? Because all you cheapskates thinking that you can get a Ferrari for the price of a Yugo are driving good companies out of business and driving manufacturers to build things more cheaply and creating the same kind of disparity between the super high end and the low end as exists in the economy with 1% of the people owning 50% of the country. The middle class in both electronics and economy is going away. That's why I'm so serious!

I am with you I am seeing it in everything.
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