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The Official Plasma Input Lag Thread. - Page 12

post #331 of 785
it has hdmi1/dvi (pc) and hdmi2, im using hdmi1 for 360 and ps3,(no pc testing yet waiting on hdmi cable to arrive(a longer one)), and i cant notice any lag at all, i did buy a 42" lcd bravia 2010/11 model before and returned it because it had 45ms input lag and was really noticeable but i cant notice it with this yet, SSF4AE is fine, must be under 20ms... i hope, will test it later, the picture quality is good too. the only thing i have turned on is 'Digital Noise Filter' to atleast medium(no dif from medium to high, but visible on low and bad on off) but i have it on high, will test high and medium if that changes input lag too

(edit: game mode is also on for hdmi1, settings are seperate for bot hdmis and tv)
post #332 of 785
Can someone please tell me the input lag for the U50?
post #333 of 785
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoogie View Post

it has hdmi1/dvi (pc) and hdmi2, im using hdmi1 for 360 and ps3,(no pc testing yet waiting on hdmi cable to arrive(a longer one)), and i cant notice any lag at all, i did buy a 42" lcd bravia 2010/11 model before and returned it because it had 45ms input lag and was really noticeable but i cant notice it with this yet, SSF4AE is fine, must be under 20ms... i hope, will test it later, the picture quality is good too. the only thing i have turned on is 'Digital Noise Filter' to atleast medium(no dif from medium to high, but visible on low and bad on off) but i have it on high, will test high and medium if that changes input lag too
(edit: game mode is also on for hdmi1, settings are seperate for bot hdmis and tv)

Hey Stoog, I meant you should try changing the "Label" or "Name" of the input in the TV's menu's to "PC". You can do this for any HDMI device, it doesn't actually have to be a PC. This forces the display into a separate low lag mode like Game Mode. Sometimes it's faster than Game Mode and/or has better PQ, but they seem to play with it every year, so not sure how things turned out on the 2012's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameslieb1 View Post

Can someone please tell me the input lag for the U50?

I haven't seen any numbers james, but I would hazard a guess it's either the same or worse than the ST/GT/VT50's, so possibly ~47ms+ depending on mode. Are you using Game Mode?
Edited by Orta - 6/23/12 at 7:55pm
post #334 of 785
there is no pc setting, just game mode for 2012 model e531 plasma 51"
post #335 of 785
If the panasonic U and UT deliver 45ms for input lag both sets are going to be a complete giant pass for me....That's just rediculous, considering HDTV UK reported that both last years X3 and S30 were locked in at 16ms.
I'm dieing to know the input lag for this years X5 as well...
post #336 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossip View Post

Yeah, I already read that, and I don't think it's too helpful. First, I'm highly skeptical of this new LagTest devices accuracy. The "old" lag test has a simple logical beauty to it that's pretty easy to understand. I don't know what the new test is doing to determine lag and since it's giving different results compared to the old test on everything, I'm more inclined to trust the old test. Giving a longer lag times doesn't automatically mean its more accurate.
Second, all the other modes on the ST50 default to motion smoother on, so unless the reviewers turned it off, the lag numbers in other modes are obviously going to be higher. Third, it's possible that lag might be higher at different resolutions (480p, 720p, 1080p) do to processing needed to upscale the image. I wish reviewers would test all 3 modes, since it could potentially be a real issue.

Based on my experience, games run 'much' better in 480p(wii for ex) in comparison to 720p PS3 titles on my 2 HDTV's. Like you said it must be the extra processing needed to upscale
the image....This is getting really annoying. seeing as how the U & UT panny plasma's are boasting around 40ms has me very dissapointed...Looks like I'll be skipping both of those. HDTV's have become such a bother as far as gaming goes Tube TV's never had any of these lag issues....It was just so simple to go out and buy a tv for gaming...NOW in the world of laggy HDTV's, gamers are 'severely' limmited...and i mean LIMMITED as far as getting a 16ms set goes and that's exactly what i want....

Are there any 50" 16ms plasmas this year? There's no way i'm settling for an LED or LCD....
post #337 of 785
wait for my hdmi cable to arrive and ill post test results, the samsung 51" plasma e531 is definetly under 40ms(by eye)
post #338 of 785
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoogie View Post

there is no pc setting, just game mode for 2012 model e531 plasma 51"

It's not actually a setting in the traditional sense, it's a mode that automatically activates when you edit the name of the source to "PC". If it still works like the older models, you press the source button on your remote, highlight your HDMI1 input, press the tools button, and select "Edit Name". Change the name to PC and that should activate it.
post #339 of 785
Just a heads up, HDTVTest.com(UK) tested the Panasonic 2012 GT50 'in' *Game Mode* at 26ms.
Seems like readings here are all over the place, and i find it hard to believe that a UK HDTV would would differ from an NA model in the lag department, it just doesn't make any sense for it to be any different. But i could be wrong.

So the UK model of the GT50 in game mode is 26ms, which should make a lot of people happy if this applies to the NA version.
Yet the 'UT50' on here going by a couple of users said it was around 40ms...Sigh* So which is it?

Here's what HDTVTest.com had to say for the GT50 as far as gaming goes....

"Input lag measured at 26 ms in the “Game” picture mode, which is slower than the leaner ST50 series, but still a result which provides very fast and immersive gaming. This mode switches to a different panel drive mechanism, and also makes sure that any inherently laggy processing (such as [Intelligent Frame Creation]) is disabled and can’t be enabled. The image quality takes a subtle hit, with gradation quality being lessened. Especially in dark areas, fine details are less cleanly rendered, instead being blanketed with some slight panel generated noise (since the plasma can’t produce as many shades in the faster “Game” mode). That’s fine by us, since the picture quality is still very good, and the most important thing for many types of game is a fast response. There is also no limitation to the workings of the [Contrast] control in Game mode, you can set the panel light output to a wide range of levels"
post #340 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

It's not actually a setting in the traditional sense, it's a mode that automatically activates when you edit the name of the source to "PC". If it still works like the older models, you press the source button on your remote, highlight your HDMI1 input, press the tools button, and select "Edit Name". Change the name to PC and that should activate it.

i will try that and post my results later ;P just got home, and thankyou for helping me
Edit: ok i tried it, cant notice any difference in latency, will need flatpanelsok program, it does however zoom out the field of view by about 5-10% and make it a little pale er ... mostly all picture settings are turned off too.
Edited by Stoogie - 6/25/12 at 7:49am
post #341 of 785
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Just a heads up, HDTVTest.com(UK) tested the Panasonic 2012 GT50 'in' *Game Mode* at 26ms.
Seems like readings here are all over the place, and i find it hard to believe that a UK HDTV would would differ from an NA model in the lag department, it just doesn't make any sense for it to be any different. But i could be wrong.
So the UK model of the GT50 in game mode is 26ms, which should make a lot of people happy if this applies to the NA version.
Yet the 'UT50' on here going by a couple of users said it was around 40ms...Sigh* So which is it?
Here's what HDTVTest.com had to say for the GT50 as far as gaming goes....
"Input lag measured at 26 ms in the “Game” picture mode, which is slower than the leaner ST50 series, but still a result which provides very fast and immersive gaming. This mode switches to a different panel drive mechanism, and also makes sure that any inherently laggy processing (such as [Intelligent Frame Creation]) is disabled and can’t be enabled. The image quality takes a subtle hit, with gradation quality being lessened. Especially in dark areas, fine details are less cleanly rendered, instead being blanketed with some slight panel generated noise (since the plasma can’t produce as many shades in the faster “Game” mode). That’s fine by us, since the picture quality is still very good, and the most important thing for many types of game is a fast response. There is also no limitation to the workings of the [Contrast] control in Game mode, you can set the panel light output to a wide range of levels"

The 47ms results are coming from this device which AVForum is using in their recent reviews (the ST50, GT50, and VT50 all showed ~47ms on it IIRC). The 16-25ms values are coming from the traditional cloned timer on two screens method. The dedicated device is supposedly more accurate, but there are some inconsistencies and unexpected results (though I'm unsure whether they're down to the device or the materials and methods of the cloned timer reviewers). Notably why would the 2011 XX30 models show 16-25ms on the timers and 30ms on the LagTester while the 2012 XX50's also show 16-25ms on timers but a whopping 47ms on the LagTester--presumably all on the same set ups.
Edited by Orta - 6/25/12 at 4:31pm
post #342 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

The 47ms results are coming from ...

yes considering most tn panels(pc monitors) have a average of 16-20ms

good website for that (pc monitor reviews) is http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/
post #343 of 785
the Samsung E531 51" Plasma has about 16-22ms delay(in PC naming mode, same in game mode maybe 1-2 ms more but cant see any difference) compared to a tn panel 24" lcd Benq V2420h, i also saw some 5ms~ and 30ms~(blame **** camera), though i did do this with the screens like 5 meters apart from each other and using a **** phone, so might not be accurate. will redo with a laptop when i get my bros.
Edited by Stoogie - 6/28/12 at 4:32am
post #344 of 785
Orta, I've been wondering the same thing myself. Does the cloned method miss something, or is the new method introducing an error? Did AVForums ever specify the input lag of each (or any) specific 2011 and 2010 model measured with the new method? I only found general statements indicating that the earlier panels were 10 ms faster.
post #345 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

The 47ms results are coming from this device which AVForum is using in their recent reviews (the ST50, GT50, and VT50 all showed ~47ms on it IIRC). The 16-25ms values are coming from the traditional cloned timer on two screens method. The dedicated device is supposedly more accurate, but there are some inconsistencies and unexpected results (though I'm unsure whether they're down to the device or the materials and methods of the cloned timer reviewers). Notably why would the 2011 XX30 models show 16-25ms on the timers and 30ms on the LagTester while the 2012 XX50's also show 16-25ms on timers but a whopping 47ms on the LagTester--presumably all on the same set ups.

This is 'why' i hate gaming on HDTV's, it's extremely frustrating to even find a 16ms set,..Let alone doing all of this research and having to go by certain input lag tests that may not even be accurate, THEN you have to test it out for yourself if the result actually holds up. Now After tons of researching, last yeari decided to get the LG 42" LK450 1080p LCD(Horrible motion handeling as expected and weak black levels kind of threw me off and make it awful for watching movies.) which does 16ms through component connection which is absolutely wonderful for digital controls when gaming. The difference is so minimal between 16 and 0ms it would be tough to even tell unless you have a CRT tube tv side by side(which i use to compare) However, motion controls on the Wii are a different story. On a lag free CRT Tube....they're 1:1, and absolutely
amazing. on a 16ms set such as mine via game mode they're still great, but the difference is noticable...I did testing on metroid prime 3, RE4: Wii Edition, Elebits and several other titles and i definitly noticed a difference. Digital is different, where as 1:1 pointer controls you need
every precious ms, and the results are much more noticable.

I'm at a point now where i will not buy an LCD or LED every again. Why? The awful inherent motion smearing thatblurs detail to the extreme. As for plasmas, i can't stand the auto dimming...10 minutes into a game, the screen gets super dim and the colors look more washed out. I've gotta say, ever since i took the plunge into the HDTV world for gaming i've been extremely frustrated...Tube tv's still remain king in perfect motion handeling and zero input lag.Hell, i just got around to purchasing the Panasoncic 2012 X5 42" 720p plasma a few days ago and wow does it deliver fantastic black levels, an amazing color gamut, amazing brightness on game mode(in fact the brightest plasma i've ever seen, and makes games lookabsolutely punchy and wonderful combined with the vivid & vibrant gorgeous colors you can achieve)....BUT, the problem is the auto dimming which really destroys the look of videogames once it rears its head, and most importantly this set isn't 16ms...it's still playable and everything but i think it may have 2 frames or more of lag in comparison to the 1 frame/16ms that i'm used to. I use this set just for movies,becaues playing games on it with that annoying auto brightness(unless i can somehow turn it off in the service menu) and 2+ frames
of input lag annoys me to no end.

At this point, i don't know what to do. I'd be completely satisfyed if I could turn off the plasma's auto brightness and get 16ms of input lag. If this is the case with the X5 i can only imagine the UT50 and onwards performing worse or possibly on par.
as is. I'm thinking of going back to my 32" Sony CRT, but i still can't make up my mind. eek! XP

are there 'any' 2012 plasma that deliver 16ms when gaming? And is it possible to turn off the auto dimming somehow 'if you can' get into the service menu?
I was thinking of getting a Neoya Wii HDMI adapter to see if the HDMI input delivers less lag than component. at this point i'll try anything. XP
post #346 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by AABBCCAA View Post

AVForums.com actually did lag tests on all the 2012 Panasonic plasmas, using a new testing device that is supposed to “provide accurate measurement with better than 1 millisecond accuracy”, they all seem to average around 45ms. One of their reviewers also did some tests on a 2011 and 2010 model for comparison and measured just under 31ms for both TVs (which would be in line with most of the results here). Seems like Panasonic might not be the first choice for gamers anymore.


Do you have a Link to the Lag testing article?
Pretty dissapointing to hear that the 2012 Panny's seem to be at around 45ms. Anything over 20ms for me just doesn't cut it....
Sometimes i feel like throwing in the towel and going back to a CRT tube tv. sigh*
Are there 'any' 2012 plasmas that dish out 16ms? You can count LG considering they're known for going over the 100ms mark. lol XP
Btw i have this years panasonic X5, and while it's playable i can definitly notice a bit more lag in comparison to my LGLk450 LCD which boasts 16ms, the lowest it can get.
Problem is, is that it's an LCD....The inherent lousy motion smearing and crummy black levels basically destroy all of my movie experience and most of my gaming.lol

All i want is a 16ms plasma with auto dimming disabled. XP
post #347 of 785
I was poised to buy one of Panasonic's 2012 plasmas, passing the 2011 range (started researching at the end of 2011) to see how the 2012 lot would fair. All sounded good until the updated input lag results from Avforum came through with the input lag testing method http://www.leobodnar.com/products/LagTest/. I feel unsettled on the results and will not buy a new panel until the dust has settled.

My only concern is playing console games, thus input lag needs to be minimal. I wish the new lag testing devcice would become available so we users could go blitz the stores and report on all response time findings. It has been said that lower end model tvs can have less input lag, the problem here is the review sites typically review the medium to high end models so the lower end get left out and we dont know the input lag.

Currently I game on various crt tvs - scart RGB, hd crt, great pictures, but I feel large screen plasma is the way to go for the hd systems. The input lag dilimma is a deal breaker for me im afraid, Ill be staying with crt until something satisfactory appears or possibly track down a 2011 panny.

Waveboy, youve got me interested in the lower end model like the x5, Im in Australia, we dont have that model, the closest to it would probably be the xt50. The interesting thing with the aussie plasma models is that they all retain the VGA connector, its been said some image processing can be avoided via vga. 16ms plasma woud be great...
post #348 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnicron View Post

I was poised to buy one of Panasonic's 2012 plasmas, passing the 2011 range (started researching at the end of 2011) to see how the 2012 lot would fair. All sounded good until the updated input lag results from Avforum came through with the input lag testing method http://www.leobodnar.com/products/LagTest/. I feel unsettled on the results and will not buy a new panel until the dust has settled.
My only concern is playing console games, thus input lag needs to be minimal. I wish the new lag testing devcice would become available so we users could go blitz the stores and report on all response time findings. It has been said that lower end model tvs can have less input lag, the problem here is the review sites typically review the medium to high end models so the lower end get left out and we dont know the input lag.
Currently I game on various crt tvs - scart RGB, hd crt, great pictures, but I feel large screen plasma is the way to go for the hd systems. The input lag dilimma is a deal breaker for me im afraid, Ill be staying with crt until something satisfactory appears or possibly track down a 2011 panny.
Waveboy, youve got me interested in the lower end model like the x5, Im in Australia, we dont have that model, the closest to it would probably be the xt50. The interesting thing with the aussie plasma models is that they all retain the VGA connector, its been said some image processing can be avoided via vga. 16ms plasma woud be great...

If you can I'd maybe seek out last years Panasonic X3(1024x768 is the downside), according to HDTVUk.Com it delivered an impressive 16ms, and that's the UK model of course. They haven't reviewed the X5 yet, but it's always better to try before you buy. Idealy, many gamers would be satisfyed by the 2 frames of lag(or so it seems) with the X5, and while i think it works good enough for digital games, again motion control based titles not so much....It's still playable, but the difference on my CRT is completely night and day to the point where it depresses me playing motion controls based titles on my plasma, even my 16ms LCD to some extent. XP Whenever i go back to my CRT i'm in heaven, and this is the thing i'd have zero problem switching between plasma when i want to watch movies or CRT for when i want to game, but the problem is as we all know is that CRT's(especially 32" models) weigh as much as a dinosaur, so there's no way i'd want to keep on switching, let alone it takes it much more space. I've got a 20" for my retro consoles, but that's just too small for the Wii imo which would destroy that immersion factor for many titles such as metroid prime 3 ect ect. Plus it doesn't support component only composite.

And the thing is as you know, the Wii U is hitting which will be 720p, support 'true' 16:9/Widescreen(instead of the Wii's lousy anamorphic widescreen, wii games should be played in 4:3 which gives you the real 640x480 resolution and a super crisp/clear image) and HDMI. So to opt for a 32" Tube CRT and to 'miss' out on all of thosewonderful things would kill me. But really, it's ABOUT the 'gameplay' if a game is crippled with lag it knocks down the intuitive and fun factor. dishing out an experience that's far less great than what it could of been and overall gives you a false impression of what the game 'really' controls like which is why 16ms should be the standard for input lag and no more...As for my Panny' the X5's color gamut is amazing, the black levels are very good and the brightness for a plasma is just wonderful(not as bright as an LCD, but brighter than most 2000' Tube Tv's when set in 'Game Mode') but agh....those 2 frames of lag and the auto dimming. eek! I've also noticed that LG Plasmas fair a bit better in the motion handeling department in comparison to Panasonic plasma's. I haven't seen the higher end Panasonic plasma's that support the 2600hz, but their600hz sets still introduce a bit of blur, with minor motion artifcats(like every other plasma).

Anyways, on Game Mode, through 'analog/component' directly plugged into the TV, with Noise reduction set to 'off', Color management set to 'off', color spectrum set to 'HD' no matter what the content is(even 480p, Color spectrum set to 'SD' will introduce more lag) you will get about 2 frames of input lag at least on the US model. Not too sure about an HDMI connection, i'll know soon enough when my Neoya Wii adapter comes in the mail. B-) also 480i conent takes a hit, and the input lag is increased....So don't play any of your older consoles like the NES,SNES Genesis or even the PS2(most games are 480i) other wise you'll be dissapointed.But ya...I want to get a 50" 1080p 3D plasma just before the Wii U hits but sad to say the 2012 panasonic models seem to be a dissapointment. The UK models ST50/UT50 were rewarded with 16ms...But the testing is all different and those are UK models. I'd hate to opt for a Samsung, IF they even have 16ms-20ms sets. I wish there was a device that would destroy input lag all together. There 'are' devices such as the DVDO Green Edge(goes for $499) that reduces input lag down to 6ms or knocks down 3 frames of lag(which is ALOT) for 'SD' content via an analogue connection. HDMI and VGA don't apply sad to say. So this device would be perfect for retro consoles, but i personally don't care for that. As i want the nostalgia of playing on a smaller Tube TV with my retro consoles, plus they're cheap as chips! nobody wants them anymore except us retro gamers haha. B-)biggrin.gif


And 'another' thing which can be a bit of an annoyance is that video games that run in 30 frames per second on an HDTV introduce motion doubleing, basically when you pan the camera around you'll see it.
It's a bit of a nasty effect that LCD/LED's hide due to their crappy motion smearing effect. But since plasma's fair much better in the motion handeling department it's easily noticable.I spent years waiting for this HD epidemic to finally end, yet it's still continueing and getting worse becausemany of these sets are doing even 'more' proccessing.... But again, i can't see myself gaming on a CRT for the Wii U. I want a 50" set, running in 720p/1080p via HDMI to get a grander, striking, engrossing and amazing 'visual' experience. XP tongue.gif
Edited by WaveBoy - 7/16/12 at 8:01am
post #349 of 785
On 2012 Panasonics, starting with the ST50 on up, changing the picture preset from Game mode to custom and then going to pro settings and turning Black extension to zero, turns off auto brightening. Unfortunately this might increase input lag compared to game mode, but I have yet to see clear test results of input lag game mode vs custom with all processing off. I'm happy to say that the ST50 performs much better compared to the ST30 in terms of double imaging artifacts in 30 fps games (i currently own the ST50 and used to have an ST30) . But I'm right with you with an extreme dislike of the auto brightening that you can't turn off in game mode. It's baffling that Panasonic doesn't let you turn it off in game mode (although it wouldn't really matter if custom is no more laggy than game mode, which we still don't know!)
post #350 of 785
Well I'm out of luck anyways considering i have the X5 and i'd perosnally rather go for the UT if i were going 1080p considering it offers a cleaner/crisper image in comparison to the ST50 since the ST50 has that filter thing going on. But lag is lag, and i can't settle for anything beyond 1 frame/16ms.
And ya, Auto dimming is the deal breaker for me when gaming on a plasma...While LCD/LED motion smearing is the big DB for both film and gaming. Super OLED, where are you when i need you. XP

Anyways! How are this years Samsung E530 and E550(3D version) in the input lag department? And do they suffer the same auto dimming problem?

If only i had the code to access the X5's service menu...
post #351 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Well I'm out of luck anyways considering i have the X5 and i'd perosnally rather go for the UT if i were going 1080p considering it offers a cleaner/crisper image in comparison to the ST50 since the ST50 has that filter thing going on. But lag is lag, and i can't settle for anything beyond 1 frame/16ms.
And ya, Auto dimming is the deal breaker for me when gaming on a plasma...While LCD/LED motion smearing is the big DB for both film and gaming. Super OLED, where are you when i need you. XP
Anyways! How are this years Samsung E530 and E550(3D version) in the input lag department? And do they suffer the same auto dimming problem?
If only i had the code to access the X5's service menu...

Ive had a look around to see how to get into the service menu, although I cannot find any specifics for the x5 model, however the codes for entering various panasonic models seem similar. Have a look around and try the various methods, I reckon you'll get in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI1dHrs7jY8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BejqcIO54QU&feature=related

T
post #352 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnicron View Post

Ive had a look around to see how to get into the service menu, although I cannot find any specifics for the x5 model, however the codes for entering various panasonic models seem similar. Have a look around and try the various methods, I reckon you'll get in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI1dHrs7jY8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BejqcIO54QU&feature=related
T

Thanks a ton!
By holding -Volume on the TV itself and by clicking 'info' on the remote 3x got me in.
Now i just need to know which option disables the auto dimming. XP
post #353 of 785
Guys I wouldn't hold your breath for Leo Bodnar to release that lag tester to the public. I think that page has been up for quite some time and he doesn't answer any e-mails about it. He hasn't even been answering e-mails to the guy on AVForums that he sold it to.

You'll probably have better luck commissioning someone from Hackaday.com to build one for you. I'm actually tempted to post a commission request there to see how much it would cost me...
post #354 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by beerninja View Post

Guys I wouldn't hold your breath for Leo Bodnar to release that lag tester to the public. I think that page has been up for quite some time and he doesn't answer any e-mails about it. He hasn't even been answering e-mails to the guy on AVForums that he sold it to.
You'll probably have better luck commissioning someone from Hackaday.com to build one for you. I'm actually tempted to post a commission request there to see how much it would cost me...

Hackaday eh? Sounds like a good idea, I'd be up to support that financially depending on how much it would cost. Harmonix, creator of the Rock Band series of games has a short video demonstrating the light sensor used in some of its guitars to calibrate the game for input lag. It looks to work on the same principle as Bodnar's tester does. A handy video to help explain the concept to someone for building a tester.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoUIQr2pTAw
post #355 of 785
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

This is 'why' i hate gaming on HDTV's, it's extremely frustrating to even find a 16ms set,..Let alone doing all of this research and having to go by certain input lag tests that may not even be accurate, THEN you have to test it out for yourself if the result actually holds up. Now After tons of researching, last yeari decided to get the LG 42" LK450 1080p LCD(Horrible motion handeling as expected and weak black levels kind of threw me off and make it awful for watching movies.) which does 16ms through component connection which is absolutely wonderful for digital controls when gaming. The difference is so minimal between 16 and 0ms it would be tough to even tell unless you have a CRT tube tv side by side(which i use to compare) However, motion controls on the Wii are a different story. On a lag free CRT Tube....they're 1:1, and absolutely
amazing. on a 16ms set such as mine via game mode they're still great, but the difference is noticable...I did testing on metroid prime 3, RE4: Wii Edition, Elebits and several other titles and i definitly noticed a difference. Digital is different, where as 1:1 pointer controls you need
every precious ms, and the results are much more noticable.
I'm at a point now where i will not buy an LCD or LED every again. Why? The awful inherent motion smearing thatblurs detail to the extreme. As for plasmas, i can't stand the auto dimming...10 minutes into a game, the screen gets super dim and the colors look more washed out. I've gotta say, ever since i took the plunge into the HDTV world for gaming i've been extremely frustrated...Tube tv's still remain king in perfect motion handeling and zero input lag.Hell, i just got around to purchasing the Panasoncic 2012 X5 42" 720p plasma a few days ago and wow does it deliver fantastic black levels, an amazing color gamut, amazing brightness on game mode(in fact the brightest plasma i've ever seen, and makes games lookabsolutely punchy and wonderful combined with the vivid & vibrant gorgeous colors you can achieve)....BUT, the problem is the auto dimming which really destroys the look of videogames once it rears its head, and most importantly this set isn't 16ms...it's still playable and everything but i think it may have 2 frames or more of lag in comparison to the 1 frame/16ms that i'm used to. I use this set just for movies,becaues playing games on it with that annoying auto brightness(unless i can somehow turn it off in the service menu) and 2+ frames
of input lag annoys me to no end.
At this point, i don't know what to do. I'd be completely satisfyed if I could turn off the plasma's auto brightness and get 16ms of input lag. If this is the case with the X5 i can only imagine the UT50 and onwards performing worse or possibly on par.
as is. I'm thinking of going back to my 32" Sony CRT, but i still can't make up my mind. eek! XP
are there 'any' 2012 plasma that deliver 16ms when gaming? And is it possible to turn off the auto dimming somehow 'if you can' get into the service menu?
I was thinking of getting a Neoya Wii HDMI adapter to see if the HDMI input delivers less lag than component. at this point i'll try anything. XP

Hey Wave, the problem you're running into with Wii is that most TV's are much much slower with 480i/p. I'd hazard a guess your 16ms LG there is really >50ms in SD. Even the "good" model year Panasonic's are slower in SD--much slower in non-game modes.
post #356 of 785
@Orta

Actually, my LG runs better via component(480p) with the wii than with the PS3 via HDMI. I did a comparison between Mega Man 9 both running in 480p on my Wii and PS3 and the Wii version performed better. I'm thinking my TV's HDMI input/connection itself delivers more lag rather
than component if that even makes sense. seems like there may be 1 frame more of additional lag on the PS3 version, which i'm assuming wouldn't of been the case had i used a component connection. XP
I'll agree with you on the 480'i' thing. any 480i material on an HDTV introduces even more lag which seems to be the case on both my LCD and Plasma in comparison to progressive scan. I switched my Wii to 480i just for kicks and the input lag was raised quite a bit...

I wont even bother playing interlaced videogames on either my Plasma or LCD, they just don't run good. And there's been debate weather HDMI introduces more or less lag than a component/analog connection.
i guess the inputs themselves are different on all sets? I ordered a Wii HDMI adapter to see if it would in fact reduce the input lag on my plasma rather than using component/analog. here's hoping! But really, isn't there a device out there that can basically knock down or destroy input lag
through HDMI or component? there's no way i'd go back to my CRT once the Wii U hits, i'd be missing out
on 720p, HDMI and true Widescreen, let alone a big screen....But by axing CRT, i'd be missing out on zero input lag plus the perfect motion handeling(I'm sure these new 2600hz plasma's are good, but there is still motion artifcats and the motion itself still isn't perfect)

The input lag on my X5 plasma(my guess is 2 frames in Game Mode, all processing off and color matrix set to HD) and current 'auto dimming' i'm experiencing
are both getting me frustrated, i understand no set is perfect, but 'gameplay' matters most and real time 'timing'is obviously the most important thing here, especially with pointer/motion controls. Digital fairs better. or its just less sensitive because it's not fluid 1:1 movements.
post #357 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossip View Post

Yeah, I already read that, and I don't think it's too helpful. First, I'm highly skeptical of this new LagTest devices accuracy. The "old" lag test has a simple logical beauty to it that's pretty easy to understand. I don't know what the new test is doing to determine lag and since it's giving different results compared to the old test on everything, I'm more inclined to trust the old test. Giving a longer lag times doesn't automatically mean its more accurate.
Second, all the other modes on the ST50 default to motion smoother on, so unless the reviewers turned it off, the lag numbers in other modes are obviously going to be higher. Third, it's possible that lag might be higher at different resolutions (480p, 720p, 1080p) do to processing needed to upscale the image. I wish reviewers would test all 3 modes, since it could potentially be a real issue.

I have been playing around with the ST50 and I can tell you that it does have some significant input lag. The input lag is much more noticeable than the LG LK450 (which I also played around with). So the reviewers are definitely onto something. So it seems the ST30 is the king of plasma input lag???
post #358 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Well I'm out of luck anyways considering i have the X5 and i'd perosnally rather go for the UT if i were going 1080p considering it offers a cleaner/crisper image in comparison to the ST50 since the ST50 has that filter thing going on. But lag is lag, and i can't settle for anything beyond 1 frame/16ms.
And ya, Auto dimming is the deal breaker for me when gaming on a plasma...While LCD/LED motion smearing is the big DB for both film and gaming. Super OLED, where are you when i need you. XP
Anyways! How are this years Samsung E530 and E550(3D version) in the input lag department? And do they suffer the same auto dimming problem?
If only i had the code to access the X5's service menu...

How is the UT50's input lag compared to the ST30, ST50, and LK450?

I got to ST50 because it had a great reputation for low input lag. I was shocked and disheartened when I experienced that it was false because the image the ST50 produces is superb .... full screen white is shockingly white for a plasma on this set.
post #359 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josam27o7 View Post

I have been playing around with the ST50 and I can tell you that it does have some significant input lag. The input lag is much more noticeable than the LG LK450 (which I also played around with). So the reviewers are definitely onto something. So it seems the ST30 is the king of plasma input lag???

That sucks to hear! XP As my main tv i want to upgrade to a 50" 1080p Plasma, and the UT50 'was' my first
choice but the input lag may infact be the deal breaker....Weird how HDTVUk.Test.com reviewed the ST50
in 'game mode'(I'm assuming with All proccessing off and color matrix set to 'HD'/'SD' weather the content
is HD or not introduces more input lag) as having only 16ms. Those UK models seem to get all the gamer lovin. lol



and i have no idea about the ST30. Apperantly the Samsung E530 plasma does 16-20ms in game mode with HDMI set to PC.
But personally, i'd rather get the brighter image and deeper blacks of a panny.
post #360 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

That sucks to hear! XP As my main tv i want to upgrade to a 50" 1080p Plasma, and the UT50 'was' my first
choice but the input lag may infact be the deal breaker....Weird how HDTVUk.Test.com reviewed the ST50
in 'game mode'(I'm assuming with All proccessing off and color matrix set to 'HD'/'SD' weather the content
is HD or not introduces more input lag) as having only 16ms. Those UK models seem to get all the gamer lovin. lol
and i have no idea about the ST30. Apperantly the Samsung E530 plasma does 16-20ms in game mode with HDMI set to PC.
But personally, i'd rather get the brighter image and deeper blacks of a panny.

What is the UT50's input lag compared to the ST50?
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